Long-Term Visa Options For a 1 Year Old Toddler

[MART]

Dear forum members and admins,

 

My wife (35, Japanese) and I (42, European Union) are considering moving to Thailand in a couple of months for a 1 to 2 years stay. I haven't finished exploring our options yet but we will most probably go for a Visa Exempt Entry or a TR-visa followed by a non-imm ED for both of us. Our main concern at the moment is our 10 months old son who holds both an EU-passport and a Japanese passport. We have heard that minors under 15 years of age do not risk much when overstaying (no fine, no ban) but we would prefer him to stay in Thailand with a proper visa/extension of stay. 

 

We are aware that we could get him an ED-visa on the basis of him attending a school in Thailand but he is too young to go to school.

Is there something like a dependent visa for children of parents holding a non-imm visa and who are not old enough yet to go to school ? 

Any other suggestion ?

 

Many thanks for your help !

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by MART

[DrJack54]

You don't need visa for your kid.

Your non o (ED) is possible entering on visa exempt or tourist visa.

The second year would be difficult on a second ed visa. 

[MART]

18 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You don't need visa for your kid.

Your non o (ED) is possible entering on visa exempt or tourist visa.

The second year would be difficult on a second ed visa. 

Thank you.

 

Do you mean there is no need for a visa for our kid because there's no consequence for overstaying (apart from an overstay stamp when exiting the kingdom) ? 

What if, for example, we want to stay in a hotel with our son and we're asked to show our passports ? Will they not care about our son's permission of stay being expired ? 

What if there is an immigration control in the street and our son is with us ? Will they not even ask for his passport ?

(in 3 years in Thailand I have never been asked for my passport in the street but I guess it could happen, even if it is unlikely)

Edited February 12, 2021 by MART

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, MART said:

Thank you.

 

Do you mean there is no need for a visa for our kid because there's no consequence for overstaying (apart from an overstay stamp when exiting the kingdom) ? 

What if, for example, we want to stay in a hotel with our son and we're asked to show our passports ? Will they not care about our son's permission of stay being expired ? 

What if there is an immigration control in the street and our son is with us ? Will they not even ask for his passport ?

 

We have few experts on thaivisa. Ubonjoe being one.

Folk such as myself try and give advice. It's always corrected if incorrect.

So back to your question. Re hotels..you will provide one passport. 

As for "immigration control in street.....". I have been here 10 years and never been asked to produce pp at some random check.

Certainly they would not wish to see your infants pp.

Don't wish to sound rude, but have you even been to Thailand?

Sounds like you have not.

[MART]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

We have few experts on thaivisa. Ubonjoe being one.

Folk such as myself try and give advice. It's always corrected if incorrect.

So back to your question. Re hotels..you will provide one passport. 

As for "immigration control in street.....". I have been here 10 years and never been asked to produce pp at some random check.

Certainly they would not wish to see your infants pp.

Don't wish to sound rude, but have you even been to Thailand?

Sounds like you have not.

 

As for hotels, I remember my wife being asked for her passport in addition to mine when we stayed in Thailand for holidays. Maybe we could have gotten away with showing just one passport but we did not try because we did not have any reason to do so.

 

I've lived in Thailand for 3 years between 2008 and 2011 before moving to Japan.

I have never been asked for my passport at a random check either (and I have edited my answer right after posting it) but Japanese people being very worried about everything and wanting to get prepared for almost anything that could possibly (or even not possibly) happen, I have to give my wife answers that sound as reassuring as possible. 

 

Thank you anyway for your efforts. 

[jackdd]

Nobody will care about a baby's permission to stay.

Until 15 years old or so there will be no overstay penalty, just let him enter visa exempt and then overstay, way easier.

Immigration won't arrest a baby ????

When he is older and will attend school you can then make a border run and get him on an education visa/extension.

Edited February 12, 2021 by jackdd

[MART]

48 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Nobody will care about a baby's permission to stay.

Until 15 years old or so there will be no overstay penalty, just let him enter visa exempt and then overstay, way easier.

Immigration won't arrest a baby ????

When he is older and will attend school you can then make a border run and get him on an education visa/extension.

Thank you. 

 

[Bourney0]

My wife and I would like to do the same thing. We have a six-month-old son and recently contacted a prominent language school in Chiang Mai. Their answer:

"For your 6 months old son, he can stay in Thailand without a visa up to 7 years old."

That said, our main concern is the COVID PCR swab tests. We are not comfortable with our son getting this intrusive and very uncomfortable test three times. We have been asking around to find out if there is an exemption for young children like in Canada, the USA, or presumably many other countries but have not turned up much information.

 

The Thai consulate in Los Angeles replied that they believe that even everyone (including infants) need this test in order to get COE.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, MART said:

Is there something like a dependent visa for children of parents holding a non-imm visa and who are not old enough yet to go to school ? 

If you have a non immigrant visa and a extension of stay it is possible for your child to get extension of stay for being member of you family. They would firs need a non-o visa entry to get the extension.

 

 

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

Nobody will care about a baby's permission to stay.

I am aware of cases that contradict that. When a child was old enough to attend a school they were unable to enroll due to being on a overstay.

Just because a child is not fined for a overstay does not mean they don't need a visa or extension of stay to stay in the country.

[Tanoshi]

Is it essential you attend a language school in Thailand?

Yes - why?

No - then why put your wants over a Childs needs.

[sometimewoodworker]

14 hours ago, Bourney0 said:

That said, our main concern is the COVID PCR swab tests. We are not comfortable with our son getting this intrusive and very uncomfortable test three times. We have been asking around to find out if there is an exemption for young children like in Canada, the USA, or presumably many other countries but have not turned up much information.

Why should there be any exemptions for  children?

They can catch Covid19. They can transmit Covid19. 
 

If you feel that the test is not suitable for your child DO NOT try to bring him to Thailand. 

If, for whatever reason, you feel you have to bring him accept that he needs the same test however uncomfortable that is. Accept that your bringing him to Thailand means subjecting him to the tests and possibly an isolation suite/room in a hospital where you may not be allowed to be with him or have contact with him. Research what happens if there is a positive test.

 

 

[MART]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If you have a non immigrant visa and a extension of stay it is possible for your child to get extension of stay for being member of you family. They would firs need a non-o visa entry to get the extension.

 

Thank you very much for your help.

 

Can we get a non-imm entry for our son in Thailand by converting his visa exempt entry ?

If not, the only possible way would be to apply for a non-imm ED for us and a non-imm O for our son in our country of residence, right ? 

The Royal Thai Embassy in our current country of residence does not issue ED visas currently though. 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, MART said:

Can we get a non-imm entry for our son in Thailand by converting his visa exempt entry ?

If not, the only possible way would be to apply for a non-imm ED for us and a non-imm O for our son in our country of residence, right ? 

It may be possible or your child to get a non-o visa at immigration if you are attending school after you apply for your first extension after getting the non-ed visa at immigration. Immigration has been a little more flexible on somethings due to covid 19.

I am not sure entering visa exempt would allow enough time to do the visa application. The extra 15 days (60+30 days) of total stay from a tourist visa might be enough to make a difference.

 

15 minutes ago, MART said:

The Royal Thai Embassy in our current country of residence does not issue ED visas currently though. 

No embassy or official consulate will issue a non-ed visa for attending a informal school. If you could enroll in a school that is classified as a formal school they will issue them.

[MART]

50 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No embassy or official consulate will issue a non-ed visa for attending a informal school. If you could enroll in a school that is classified as a formal school they will issue them.

 

Thank you very much again. Useful piece of advice concerning the 60+30 vs. 45+30 days.

Maybe a stupid question but assuming they are still issuing 60 days covid-extensions when we are there, would it be possible to convert our visa exempt entry into a non-imm one while already on a covid-extension ?

 

The Thai Embassy in our current country of residence specifically states on their website : "Due to covid, we currently do not issue ED visas for learning Thai language". The only ED visas they currently issue are : for internships, to attend an international school, to attend an international conference.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, MART said:

Maybe a stupid question but assuming they are still issuing 60 days covid-extensions when we are there, would it be possible to convert our visa exempt entry into a non-imm one while already on a covid-extension?

Yes they will issue them when on a 60 day covid 19 extension.

 

28 minutes ago, MART said:

The Thai Embassy in our current country of residence specifically states on their website : "Due to covid, we currently do not issue ED visas for learning Thai language". The only ED visas they currently issue are : for internships, to attend an international school, to attend an international conference.

Just a different way of stating informal and formal schools. This from a embassy website I use for info.

[StevieAus]

On 2/13/2021 at 1:57 AM, Bourney0 said:

My wife and I would like to do the same thing. We have a six-month-old son and recently contacted a prominent language school in Chiang Mai. Their answer:

"For your 6 months old son, he can stay in Thailand without a visa up to 7 years old."

That said, our main concern is the COVID PCR swab tests. We are not comfortable with our son getting this intrusive and very uncomfortable test three times. We have been asking around to find out if there is an exemption for young children like in Canada, the USA, or presumably many other countries but have not turned up much information.

 

The Thai consulate in Los Angeles replied that they believe that even everyone (including infants) need this test in order to get COE.

 

 

I don’t wish to sound uncaring, but I live in Thailand and have a daughter who is close now to five years old.

Unfortunately in life there are often medical procedures that have to be carried out for the benefit of the child.

I can recall when she was younger her being admitted to hospital and being placed on an intravenenous  drip, having that placed in her arm and changed every few days was far worse than any Covid test which involves having a type of cotton bud lightly moved around the nostril for a few seconds.

I had one last week not particularly pleasant but I have had a lot worse procedures during my life.

[Peter Denis]

4 hours ago, DJ54 said:

Most hotels I’ve stayed at prior in Thailand ask for ID ( passport or whatever) from both me and my girlfriend at the time...  I’ve lived here 5 years full time now not been asked for passport when out and about...

 

Didn’t have and we i was living I got a polite reminder passport at all times...  I still don’t carry it with me.. I’ve the drivers license type of passport in wallet...

Hotels/guesthouses are required by Thai law, to notify the local Imm Office within 24 hours of a foreigner staying at their premises.  To make that TM-30 notification - using the on-line IO TM-30 system - they need your passport-number and TM-6 small entry/departure card you received on entering Thailand.

When checking in with your Thai wife/girlfriend and she doing the check-in can circumvent that requirement, but most Hotels/guesthouses will ask a foreigner for his passport as it is a quicka and easy process for them to do the on-line TM-30 notification and then they are fully in compliance with Thai law.

= = = = =

I always have a COPY of the ID-page of my passport with me, in case it would be required for me to prove my identity (in 3 years this has never occured).  But I refrain from having my passport with me, because loss/theft of it, would be a major hassle to get the passport replaced (not to mention the permission to stay based on the original Visa).

[Bourney0]

15 hours ago, StevieAus said:

I don’t wish to sound uncaring, but I live in Thailand and have a daughter who is close now to five years old.

Unfortunately in life there are often medical procedures that have to be carried out for the benefit of the child.

I can recall when she was younger her being admitted to hospital and being placed on an intravenenous  drip, having that placed in her arm and changed every few days was far worse than any Covid test which involves having a type of cotton bud lightly moved around the nostril for a few seconds.

I had one last week not particularly pleasant but I have had a lot worse procedures during my life.

 

Stevie, how deep would you say that they inserted the swab? Was it just inside the part that protrudes from the face?

Typically a nasopharyngeal swab for PCR is inserted 8-10cm inside the nose in adults--practically to the back of the throat. That's downright unpleasant--even dangerous for a young child. At best, it makes your eyes water.

Perhaps they gave you a different type of test. The problem is, there are at least three different methods for doing a COVID PCR test. There's a nasopharyngeal swab, a more "gentle" swab, or a saliva test.

 

The saliva test is the least invasive. You simply spit into a collection cup and that's what's used for the test. It seems like that's the rarest type, unfortunately.

We are leaning toward scrapping any plans for Thailand until the entry restrictions have been relaxed to some extent. 

Even if we went now there's also the risk that one of us gets a false positive test in ASQ. If it were the baby or my wife it could be a total disaster as the baby is still dependent upon breastfeeding. If one of them were to get a false positive (there's about a 4% chance, so I have heard) then one of them would be whisked off to a hotel and put into isolation for 10+ days. If it were my wife I would be forced to transition the baby to bottle formula. If it were our baby I can't imagine we would be comfortable letting him be abducted to some hospital and put into isolation.

We aren't interested in starting a debate on immunology here, but we have all already had the virus and recovered so I am confident that any near-term PCR test would be a false positive for any of us.

It would be great if Thailand and other countries accepted a serum (antibody) test in lieu of PCR tests and quarantine for those of us that have had the virus and recovered.

[Bourney0]

On 2/13/2021 at 4:25 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

Why should there be any exemptions for  children?

They can catch Covid19. They can transmit Covid19. 
 

If you feel that the test is not suitable for your child DO NOT try to bring him to Thailand. 

If, for whatever reason, you feel you have to bring him accept that he needs the same test however uncomfortable that is. Accept that your bringing him to Thailand means subjecting him to the tests and possibly an isolation suite/room in a hospital where you may not be allowed to be with him or have contact with him. Research what happens if there is a positive test.

 

 

These are good points. Our baby actually caught the virus before us and it seems that we caught it from him.

We have all had the virus and recovered so it would seem that none of us would be bringing the virus in but rather contributing to herd immunity at this point.

It would be a nightmare if he got a false positive test in ASQ and was forced into isolation.

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, Bourney0 said:

It would be a nightmare if he got a false positive test in ASQ and was forced into isolation.

As your wife is breast feeding it is very probable that both would be hospitalised. For a positive test you do not continue to stay in the ASQ hotel AFIK. You are moved into the associated hospital isolation unit.

 

A positive test for any of you is not guaranteed to be faulty, a small percentage of people can get a second infection (though probably symptom free) possibly of a variant. So if you test positive you absolutely must be isolated. You will then get tested as shorter intervals.

 

The reason for quarantine is to stop infections. To be brutally honest there is absolutely no possible reason for any individual of any age to be exempted from testing. You can be sure that the testing will be done as sympathetically as possible. Thailand does not want anyone spreading the virus. You seem to already know that babies do spread the information.

 

So do not come or bring anyone who will not accept (or will not be allowed to accept testing) along with the possible hospital isolation. 
 

A small number of incoming people have tested positive in quarantine daily and gone into hospital isolation since the virus started. So that’s a risk you need to accept.

 

Thailand has had very many fewer people per million hospitalised with covid19 in the last year than other countries are having per day and the total number of deaths though possibly under reported is a tiny fraction of daily deaths.

 

Nobodies inconvenience is worth other people’s death or long Covid