Thailand defends decision not to join COVAX vaccine alliance

[hioctane]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

For that to work the entire tourism workforce would need to be vaccinated and the tourists kept in bubbles to avoid contact with the general Thai population. Please remember vaccination does not stop you carrying the virus and passing it on although that is of course vastly reduced.

 

Lets face it, until the general population in Thailand is vaccinated then attempts at luring tourists will just be more plans with little results.

It is still undetermined if vaccinated people can spread. More testing is being done. It better to assume you can until scientists know for sure.

[donnacha]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

For that to work the entire tourism workforce would need to be vaccinated and the tourists kept in bubbles to avoid contact with the general Thai population. Please remember vaccination does not stop you carrying the virus and passing it on although that is of course vastly reduced.

 

Lets face it, until the general population in Thailand is vaccinated then attempts at luring tourists will just be more plans with little results.

You are not considering the system that the Thai government and people have already accepted.

At present, unvaccinated humans who may have the virus are allowed in and placed into quarantine. This carries some level of risk, not least that a tourist could contract the virus during their last few days in quarantine and, then, spread it around once outside, potentially exposing the currently unvaccinated citizens and tourism workforce.

The current testing and quarantine system is a big hassle but absolutely not foolproof.

I am saying that accepting ONLY inoculated tourists, coming from countries where mass vaccination has pushed active infections below 0.1% of the population, is far safer on every level. This is basic math.

The scenario I'm suggesting is not happening tomorrow, but Israel are clearly already on their way.


 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, donnacha said:

You are not considering the system that the Thai government and people have already accepted.

At present, unvaccinated humans who may have the virus are allowed in and placed into quarantine. This carries some level of risk, not least that a tourist could contract the virus during their last few days in quarantine and, then, spread it around once outside, potentially exposing the currently unvaccinated citizens and tourism workforce.

The current testing and quarantine system is a big hassle but absolutely not foolproof.

I am saying that accepting ONLY inoculated tourists, coming from countries where mass vaccination has pushed active infections below 0.1% of the population, is far safer on every level. This is basic math.

The scenario I'm suggesting is not happening tomorrow, but Israel are clearly already on their way.


 

Yes Israel is on its way to vaccination 100% of their population.  Thailand has no one vaccinated yet and it has been shown that vaccinated folks can still pick up and transmit the virus. Just look at the 4 recent cases in Oregon.

[internationalism]

thailand - hub of corruption and ignorance.

Astrazeneca in europe $2.18, in thailand $7.78 (6bln baht that is $200 for 26mln doses).

EU, and even more so Covax, do have economy of scale - EU is 700mln, Covac some 2bln population. So they can negotiate price and timing. Thailand, with 67mln population and being stingy doesn't have bargaining power.

 

Malaysia and Bahrain are richer in than Thailand, yet they joined the program. Malaysia has  already allocated $500mln for 83% of population.  

Edited February 15, 2021 by internationalism

[denis911]

So all about money again, lets order and buy submarines, armored personnel carriers, strike helicopters, maintain a totally useless aircraft carrier, spent fortunes on face-lifting military establishments, etc, etc, etc, but not pay a small premium on the COVAX program, which would guarantee prices delivery dates and save millions of Baht in hospital treatment for the infected population. Only last week "I Know Nuthin" (Anutin)  was spewing garbage about this thousand, that thousand vaccines being delivered and the vaccine program starting from 14th February ????????. Now it emerges that they have not even ordered the vaccine ??? Waiting for Siam Bioscience to start producing cheaper locally. Although I am a supporter of the way they locked Thailand down early, to suppress to spread of the virus, (like many other Asian countries), it beggars belief, at the way this shamble of so called experts are just lying to each other and the general public each and every day. So the vaccine roll out is now planned for June, please don't hold your breath, as you will not be around to receive it.

[brianthainess]

Is there any other country in this part of the world who has ZERO jabs?

[donnacha]

4 minutes ago, hioctane said:

It is still undetermined if vaccinated people can spread. More testing is being done.

It was always biologically impossible that inoculation would not reduce transmission to some degree.

Extensive testing has now been done in Israel - by some of the best universities closely monitoring the largest available pool of subjects - and it shows that transmission is reduced by 67%. That is enough to obliterate the R0 and keep down the curve in any country that gets above 50% vaccinated. 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by donnacha

[hioctane]

2 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

In this Governments view they will squeeze all they can out of quarantine.

The Thai government does not seem like they want to be the first in anything. Israel has shown a huge benefit. The US has already seen a huge drop in cases. If cases keep dropping in these vaccinated countries, they will probably follow the lead.

[nickmondo]

i dont care about any of this rubbish.

the UK is well on its way with its programme.

soon enough, it will be possible for individuals to order the stuff online.

so anyone here, will be able to order it from the UK or from another country that has it.

Also, I am pretty sure the private hospitals here will have their own source and supply soon enough.

[hioctane]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yes Israel is on its way to vaccination 100% of their population.  Thailand has no one vaccinated yet and it has been shown that vaccinated folks can still pick up and transmit the virus. Just look at the 4 recent cases in Oregon.

Nothing has shown that it can trasmit yet. On the plus, the Oregon cases were mild and assymptomatic.

[hioctane]

3 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

i dont care about any of this rubbish.

the UK is well on its way with its programme.

soon enough, it will be possible for individuals to order the stuff online.

so anyone here, will be able to order it from the UK or from another country that has it.

Also, I am pretty sure the private hospitals here will have their own source and supply soon enough.

It won’t be available for general sale for a while. All the high income countries have preordered all the doses to vaccinate their whole countries first.

[newnative]

Just more jabber, jabber, jabber.  Nobody is buying it.  

[donnacha]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

You said and I quote 

You simply don't understand the words you are quoting. Thailand, with its unvaccinated population, is already tolerating a certain small level of risk from tourists using the testing and quarantine path. I am criticizing the hysterical notion that now, facing an infinitely safer form of tourist, suddenly they need to vaccinate their entire population. It is complete nonsense.

Current situation: Population exposed to potentially virus-ridden tourists.

New situation: Population exposed to tourists far less likely to be infected, and far less able to transmit it if they are.
 

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

this government is extremely scared of loosing what little control they have and the supposed success they have had based uponbtheir actions

The particular Army faction currently fronting for the establishment cannot retain their big money backers if they fail to get the money spigot operating again.

Western vaccination programs were always going to be how they would re-open to mass tourism. If this faction fails to deliver they will be swiftly replaced by another.

 

[ftpjtm]

32 minutes ago, Mike Rodik said:

almost 70 million THAIS.... 80 died in a year

 

does everybody really need an untested rushed vaccine ?

It would be nice to be able to get one if you want one, as I'm sure the vast majority of healthcare and ASQ workers do.

 

You can wait though. 

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

59 minutes ago, madmitch said:

It's typical Thailand. It's a very insular country in many ways. Thaland prefers to do things in its own way and is very protective of its own industries.

 

It's very sad that this type of thinking has been applied to something as important as this.

That´s the only type of thinking that can be applied. It´s impossible to apply something that is outside the view of awareness.

[donnacha]

20 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

In this Governments view they will squeeze all they can out of quarantine.

Do you really believe they prefer the money they are getting from a paltry few thousand quarantine inmates per month rather than what they were earning from 40 million tourists they were getting per year?

 

[ThailandRyan]

16 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

i dont care about any of this rubbish.

the UK is well on its way with its programme.

soon enough, it will be possible for individuals to order the stuff online.

so anyone here, will be able to order it from the UK or from another country that has it.

Also, I am pretty sure the private hospitals here will have their own source and supply soon enough.

Unfortunately the Government has just recently rolled back the ability for anyone outside of the immediate government CCSA and MOPH to bring in vaccines.  I wish it was not so, but they want 100% control over something they do not yet have and do not want to be upstaged by a private hospital obtaining the vaccine and vaccinating people before the government does.

[DLock]

The irony that a country that continually reminds us that they were in the Top 5 for COVID response worldwide can screw up the vaccine response so badly is not lost on me.

 

I find this Thailand mess rather amusing.

 

Personally, I could care less about COVID and vaccines and timing anymore...

[ThailandRyan]

4 hours ago, donnacha said:

You simply don't understand the words you are quoting. Thailand, with its unvaccinated population, is already tolerating a certain small level of risk from tourists using the testing and quarantine path. I am criticizing the hysterical notion that now, facing an infinitely safer form of tourist, suddenly they need to vaccinate their entire population. It is complete nonsense.

Current situation: Population exposed to potentially virus-ridden tourists.

New situation: Population exposed to tourists far less likely to be infected, and far less able to transmit it if they are.
 

The particular Army faction currently fronting for the establishment cannot retain their big money backers if they fail to get the money spigot operating again.

Western vaccination programs were always going to be how they would re-open to mass tourism. If this faction fails to deliver they will be swiftly replaced by another.

 

Got it, sorry to have misread your post.  I still standby what I said about this government and the way they are keeping quarantine and keeping tourism in a hold pattern.  This country also appears to worry about it's image.  What would happen if they allowed a tourist into the country who was inoculated, but then upon return to their home country tested positive for Covid, oh the horrors Thailand would face.  They already deny people who have returned to S. Korea, and Japan testing positive, It is all about FACE, and they want everything to be just perfect in the view of the world.  Why not, if I was in charge of the Government I would want to look great in the eyes of others who have failed, but to admit their own shortcomings and failures will never occur. 

[shackleton]

The bottom line is business people seem to be more worried about the Tourist industry loss of business jobs ect which I fully understand 

Than seems to be about giving the vaccine to all the Thai people 

Every day we are reading about different governors in the main Tourist 

Areas looking at ways to procure the vaccines first for the people working in the leisure industry to get the tourist back 

This should be  Government lead for all

 

[ThailandRyan]

15 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Do you really believe they prefer the money they are getting from a paltry few thousand quarantine inmates per month rather than what they were earning from 40 million tourists they were getting per year?

 

No, but a few Billion Baht is better than nothing.  Thailand surely does not want to make the country awash in the virus now do they?  A little money for their friends is better than nothing, and they are barely taking care of those that have gone under and are unemployed now in the tourism sector who were unclassified employee's.

[Bkk Brian]

42 minutes ago, donnacha said:

You are not considering the system that the Thai government and people have already accepted.

At present, unvaccinated humans who may have the virus are allowed in and placed into quarantine. This carries some level of risk, not least that a tourist could contract the virus during their last few days in quarantine and, then, spread it around once outside, potentially exposing the currently unvaccinated citizens and tourism workforce.

The current testing and quarantine system is a big hassle but absolutely not foolproof.

I am saying that accepting ONLY inoculated tourists, coming from countries where mass vaccination has pushed active infections below 0.1% of the population, is far safer on every level. This is basic math.

The scenario I'm suggesting is not happening tomorrow, but Israel are clearly already on their way.
 

Lets face it, a country that inoculates its entire population is not then going to take a vacation in Thailand where they then are exposed to a largely un-vaccinated tourism sector and general population, when they can go elsewhere to a country that has been vaccinated.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[donnacha]

12 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

No, but a few Billion Baht is better than nothing.  Thailand surely does not want to make the country awash in the virus now do they?  A little money for their friends is better than nothing, and they are barely taking care of those that have gone under and are unemployed now in the tourism sector who were unclassified employee's.

The only people who really matter in a pseudo-democracy are those who are so well-connected that, prior to Covid, they were swimming in unimaginable torrents of money.

You and I, being regular chaps, probably think that just a few million dollars would set us up for life. These guys, however, had established such lavish lifestyles, including the most nubile and expensive mia noi's, that they need a continual stream of millions to keep all their balls up in the air.

For them, the completely unexpected cessation of the money fountain of tourism, has shocked them to their core. All they desire now, with every cell in their bodies, is a swift return to the golden age.

The few million dollars per month being generated per month, by salting the few sad suckers desperate enough to undergo quarantine, was never going to be enough to satisfy all the pigs at the trough.

Not even the ASQ hotel owners would hesitate to swap the current situation for a return to mass tourism. Everyone is losing their @rses at the moment.

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by donnacha
It wouldn't let me use the word <deleted>

[donnacha]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lets face it, a country that inoculates its entire population is not then going to take a vacation in Thailand where they then are exposed to a largely un-vaccinated tourism sector and general population, when they can go elsewhere to a country that has been vaccinated.

So, you think we're going to vacation in Germany?

Trust me, after a year of grim lockdown boredom, as soon as the prison gates open, more people than ever are sprinting towards Thailand.

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by donnacha

[troubletribbles]

What do you think this means for those willing/able to pay for vaccine at private hospitals?

[Katipo]

Playing with the lives of the many to benefit the few is nothing new. This time it's just rather more obvious than usual.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, donnacha said:

So, you think we're going to vacation in Germany?

Trust me, after a year of grim lockdown boredom, as soon as the gates open, more people than ever are sprinting towards Thailand.

Trust me, there will be no hordes of childless adults and couples flocking to Thailand unless Thailand gets its act together and has vaccinated its population. 

[Forrests Father]

Our good friend Anutin last year in April:
https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30386563

“in a move to ensure that Thailand gets access to the serum at the same time as other countries.”

[BTB1977]

Of they work with WHO they won't be able to receive their little brown envelopes. If they control the purchasing and money much easier to skim off the top.  Plain and simple.  

[donnacha]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Trust me, there will be no hordes of childless adults and couples flocking to Thailand unless Thailand gets its act together and has vaccinated its population. 

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to argue with you, genuinely curious.

From your perspective, if you were fully inoculated and verified, and could catch a plane to Thailand full of other people who were also inoculated, you would decide to NOT visit Thailand or any other country that had not yet vaccinated the entire population?

That strikes me as cautious to a bizarre level.

Even unvaccinated, I consider the risk to myself, at just under 50, to be fairly insignificant. I have tolerated the major changes to my life because I understand that spreading the disease could endanger other, far more vulnerable people.

If getting inoculated more or less eliminates the already tiny chance that I would be hospitalized, and also reduces by 67% my ability to asymptomatically transmit the virus to others, and also massively reduces the number of active cases in my country, I consider all that to be good enough to travel with a clean conscience anywhere.

Almost everyone I talk to back in the West is obsessed with blowing some of the money they haven't been able to spend over the past year on an exotic vacation as soon as they get both their shots.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by donnacha