Thailand defends decision not to join COVAX vaccine alliance

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

Why not?  If you've been vaccinated, you can expose yourself to as many unvaccinated people as you like. That's the whole purpose of being vaccinated.

I shall have had my second shot by early May, at which time I'll be happy to get on an aircraft and fly to Thailand because I will be protected.

 

 

Yes you can but maybe those who have not been vaccinated don't want to be near you. There is still a small possibility that you can still carry the virus even though you've been vaccinated and pass it on to others. 

 

Here's an example, the UK currently has a few outbreaks of the South African variant, the AZ vaccine has apparently proved only around 20% effective for that particular variant. So a person from the UK that has been vaccinated but still carries the south African variant could possibly spread it to others, its evolving science as we speak and studies are currently being carried out.

 

I want vaccines to be the magic bullet same as most people but this is the reality currently

 

The WHO statement on this may explain better than me. at 1:29 

 

[lkv]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes you can but maybe those who have not been vaccinated don't want to be near you.

 

So it's better for them to be around other unvaccinated people rather than vaccinated?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

 

So it's better for them to be around other unvaccinated people rather than vaccinated?

If they are not infected yes, if they are infected no, what sort of response would you prefer? Considering you left out the data to which this referred in my post.

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

If they are not infected yes, if they are infected no, what sort of response would you prefer? Considering you left out the data to which this referred in my post.

 

Yes, the AZ vaccine has a very low efficacy towards the South African strain, boosters will be developed, I will get Pfizer anyway supposedly starting April here in Europe,  Pfizer covers that particular strain better, many countries in Europe have or will be opening up, summer time most tourist destinations in Europe will be open for vaccinated people, either by a central decision from Brussels or bilateral agreements (see Israel-Greece-Cyprus). I also expect some Asian countries to open up, some like Taiwan will not give up quarantine until they reach 60% vaccination, which will happen in autumn. Others, more in need of tourist dollars (not necessarily Thailand), will open.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

 

Yes, the AZ vaccine has a very low efficacy towards the South African strain, boosters will be developed, I will get Pfizer anyway supposedly starting April here in Europe,  Pfizer covers that particular strain better, many countries in Europe have or will be opening up, summer time most tourist destinations in Europe will be open for vaccinated people, either by a central decision from Brussels or bilateral agreements (see Israel-Greece-Cyprus). I also expect some Asian countries to open up, some like Taiwan will not give up quarantine until they reach 60% vaccination, which will happen in autumn. Others, more in need of tourist dollars (not necessarily Thailand), will open.

Agreed and places like Thailand are very wary of the South African strain as they have the majority of their eggs in the AZ vaccine produced by a company who has never rolled out a vaccine before and are now talking about increasing the quarantine to 21 days because of it. How this all transpires I do not know.

 

I would like the vaccines to work but they are unable to keep up with new strains, so the only solution in my view is to let the world get on with this and come to the realization that this is never going away and we need to start opening up travel and industry as soon as all countries have been vaccinated. Boosters will be needed and infections will still occur as with the flu.

[lemonjelly]

Contract has been given to SiamBioScience for the locally produced AstraZeneca vaccine. SiamBioScience is owned by the crown so of course they were given the task. Unfortunately they’re not letting anyone in to view/inspect the progress made so far in setting up the facilities for  vaccine production which is a very complicated procedure.

This has some people worried.

 

[NCFC]

14 hours ago, donnacha said:

I keep hearing people repeating this idea. On some surface level, this may sound plausible but, actually, it is not at all logical and cannot be how things will play out.

You only need to vaccinate the entire population if you plan to expose them to the virus.

If, instead, the aim is to minimize any such exposure, the best approach is to only allow in people who are:
 

1. Inoculated (by having completed a full course of vaccine jabs at least two weeks before arriving in Thailand).
    
2. Flying on planes only with other inoculated passengers.
    
3. Resident in countries where, thanks to the mass vaccination of at least 75% of the population, the level of active cases is below 0.1% of the population.

At that point, you have tourists who:
 

1. Pose an infinitesimal risk to the Thai population, far less even than the current tourists undergoing the testing and quarantine process.
    
2. Are unlikely to require hospitalization and rack up medical costs if they themselves pick up the virus while in Thailand.

Two realities cannot be avoided:
 

1. Thailand is not going to be able to vaccinate its entire population. Ever.
    
2. The real risk comes not from highly controlled tourists who fly in from richer countries but from the uncontrolled entry of migrant workers from poorer neighboring countries.

Given all the above, there is no reason not to accept properly, verifiably inoculated tourists, regardless of how many of your own population are vaccinated.

 

Sorry, despite the fact that I will have had two jabs within the next three months and have 90% immunity, there is no way I will be visiting a country where none of the citizens have been vaccinated. I suspect a lot of people will think like me.

[donnacha]

55 minutes ago, NCFC said:

Sorry, despite the fact that I will have had two jabs within the next three months and have 90% immunity, there is no way I will be visiting a country where none of the citizens have been vaccinated. I suspect a lot of people will think like me.

You are entitled to be as cautious as you wish.

Bear in mind, also, that just six years ago an entire a Boeing 777-200ER passenger jet disappeared, so, probably best to just stay at home even after this virus thing has been sorted out.

 

[VBF]

13 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

 

Yes you can but maybe those who have not been vaccinated don't want to be near you. There is still a small possibility that you can still carry the virus even though you've been vaccinated and pass it on to others. 

 

Here's an example, the UK currently has a few outbreaks of the South African variant, the AZ vaccine has apparently proved only around 20% effective for that particular variant. So a person from the UK that has been vaccinated but still carries the south African variant could possibly spread it to others, its evolving science as we speak and studies are currently being carried out.

 

I want vaccines to be the magic bullet same as most people but this is the reality currently

 

The WHO statement on this may explain better than me. at 1:29 

 

In this context, that's irrelevant, because i was replying to "Lets face it, a country that inoculates its entire population is not then going to take a vacation in Thailand where they then are exposed....."  In other words if I'm inoculated, I don't care what I'm exposed to because I'm out of danger

 

The possibility of me being contagious and therefore a danger to others, is yet another factor.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, VBF said:

In this context, that's irrelevant, because i was replying to "Lets face it, a country that inoculates its entire population is not then going to take a vacation in Thailand where they then are exposed....."  In other words if I'm inoculated, I don't care what I'm exposed to because I'm out of danger

 

The possibility of me being contagious and therefore a danger to others, is yet another factor.

In that context is exactly why I responded to you...................

[VocalNeal]

10 hours ago, NCFC said:

Sorry, despite the fact that I will have had two jabs within the next three months and have 90% immunity, there is no way I will be visiting a country where none of the citizens have been vaccinated. I suspect a lot of people will think like me.

 

With this kind of thinking nobody would ever, or ever had, visited Africa. Most all have had jabs against yellow fever, cholera?, japanese encephalitis, polio et al. Didn't stop me going to Africa.

How many tourists visiting Thailand take malaria pills. 

Each to their own.

Have all the jabs in US then get shot?

[BernieOnTour]

Well... looking back on all those contradictory statements in the last 14 months, WHO made, I can fully understand the Thai government.

(Corona is no pandemic - Corona is declared a pandemic.

Face masks do not help, we recommend Face masks.

Coronavirus is a killer virus - Bulletin: Covid has a case fatality rate of ~0.2%

Banning Chinese from travel to USA is rassist - We recommend travel bans.

Chinese lockdown in Wuhan was a successful experiment - Lockdowns do not prove successful.

And the list goes on....)

 

And a national government should make sure to do, what their people suits best. Relying on an international organization, working together with 2 private funded NGOs, obscured decision process, decisions influenced by political muggling and lobbyists - that’s for sure not the way to achieve the best for your electorate.

 

Add in to that: Thailand is regarding Covid deaths and number of incidents at the bottom of the list. Therefore, they would have to wait for their vaccines far longer than those with high Covid numbers.

[Plima]

On 2/15/2021 at 2:23 AM, webfact said:

Thailand defends decision not to join COVAX vaccine alliance

By Orathai Sriring and Panarat Thepgumpanat

 

FILE PHOTO: A healthcare worker takes a nasal swab sample from a migrant worker during proactive testing at his work place, amid the spread of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) outbreak in Samut Sakhon province in Thailand, January 27, 2021. REUTERS/Chalinee Thirasupa

 

BANGKOK (Reuters) - The Thai government on Sunday defended its decision not to join the WHO-sponsored coronavirus vaccine programme, saying that to do so would risk the country paying more for the shots and facing uncertainty about delivery times.

 

The government has been criticised by opposition politicians and protesters for lacking transparency and being too slow in procuring vaccines. While the country of 66 million people has had low numbers of cases and deaths, it is dealing with a second wave of infections.

 

Frontline health workers are to begin receiving 2 million imported Chinese Sinovac shots within a month, but mass vaccinations for the general population are not due to begin until locally produced AstraZeneca doses are ready in June.

 

Government spokesman Anucha Buraphachaisri, responding to media reports that Thailand is the only Southeast Asian country to skip the WHO's COVAX scheme, said that as a middle-income country Thailand is not eligible for free or cheap vaccines under the programme.

 

"Buying vaccines directly from the manufacturers is an appropriate choice... as it's more flexible," Anucha said.

 

"If Thailand wants to join the COVAX program, it will have to pay for vaccines itself with a high budget and there is also a risk," he said, adding the country had to make an advance payment without knowing the source of vaccines and delivery dates. He did not specify the costs.

 

In all, 190 countries including have joined COVAX, which aims to ensure equitable access to vaccines during the pandemic. The scheme is jointly run by the GAVI alliance, the WHO, the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations and UNICEF.

 

Thailand so far has not received or produced any vaccines, even as many of its neighbours have started inoculations.

 

Thailand reported 166 new coronavirus cases on Sunday, taking its total of infections to 24,571, with a death toll of 80.

 

(Reporting by Orathai Sriring and Panarat Thepgumpanat; Editing by Kay Johnson and Frances Kerry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-02-15

 

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As always, money is more important then health. They (the government) don't care about the people who they work for!

[NCFC]

On 2/16/2021 at 2:53 AM, VocalNeal said:

 

With this kind of thinking nobody would ever, or ever had, visited Africa. Most all have had jabs against yellow fever, cholera?, japanese encephalitis, polio et al. Didn't stop me going to Africa.

How many tourists visiting Thailand take malaria pills. 

Each to their own.

Have all the jabs in US then get shot?

We are in extraordinary times where usual patterns of behaviour don't really apply. In Europe we've been in lockdown for twelve months with severe restrictions of movement, so for most people the last thing they want to do is go somewhere where there has been no vaccination of the population when other tourist destinations will be available that have received the vaccine. No one wants to throw away all the hard slog of lockdown for the risk of mixing it with unvaccinated when alternatives exist. I may be wrong but I think people will vacation nearer to home for the next twelve months choosing safer destinations before venturing into what may be perceived as riskier destinations beyond the new year.

[VBF]

On 2/17/2021 at 12:49 PM, NCFC said:

We are in extraordinary times where usual patterns of behaviour don't really apply. In Europe we've been in lockdown for twelve months with severe restrictions of movement, so for most people the last thing they want to do is go somewhere where there has been no vaccination of the population when other tourist destinations will be available that have received the vaccine. No one wants to throw away all the hard slog of lockdown for the risk of mixing it with unvaccinated when alternatives exist. I may be wrong but I think people will vacation nearer to home for the next twelve months choosing safer destinations before venturing into what may be perceived as riskier destinations beyond the new year.

I would disagree with your comment  "....the last thing they want to do is go somewhere where there has been no vaccination of the population...."

 

If I have been vaccinated why would I care about mixing with people who haven't?  My vaccination keeps me safe, rather it's the non-vaccinated people who need to be wary of me, as I might still be a carrier. 

 

Just had my first AZ shot this morning ???????????? Once I've had my second shot in May, I shall be happy if I'm allowed in to other countries whether they have been vaccinated or not.

[Dogmatix]

What he didn't mention is that AZ has earmarked the local production in Thailand to supply COVAX orders to other Southeast Asian countries and that countries that have a lot more cases than Thailand, such as Indonesia, will be given priority over Thailand's own orders from the facility which amount to only 26 million doses.

[NCFC]

On 2/18/2021 at 1:04 PM, VBF said:

I would disagree with your comment  "....the last thing they want to do is go somewhere where there has been no vaccination of the population...."

 

If I have been vaccinated why would I care about mixing with people who haven't?  My vaccination keeps me safe, rather it's the non-vaccinated people who need to be wary of me, as I might still be a carrier. 

 

Just had my first AZ shot this morning ???????????? Once I've had my second shot in May, I shall be happy if I'm allowed in to other countries whether they have been vaccinated or not.

Out of interest, I asked a number of people that I know whether they would travel to an unvaccinated country or not, and not one said they would. I suppose it comes down to how strong your desire is to go somewhere in particular and Thailand does have a strong draw for a lot of people. But the vaccine does not provide one hundred percent protection so there is going to be an element of risk that people will weigh up against the reward of going some place. And given a choice of visiting a place where people have been vaccinated and a place where no one have been vaccinated there is greater risk in going to the place where no one is vaccinated.

 

I've had the Pfizer jab which currently gives me 74% protection and when I get the second dose in a couple of months it will be 95% protection.

[VBF]

54 minutes ago, NCFC said:

Out of interest, I asked a number of people that I know whether they would travel to an unvaccinated country or not, and not one said they would. I suppose it comes down to how strong your desire is to go somewhere in particular and Thailand does have a strong draw for a lot of people. But the vaccine does not provide one hundred percent protection so there is going to be an element of risk that people will weigh up against the reward of going some place. And given a choice of visiting a place where people have been vaccinated and a place where no one have been vaccinated there is greater risk in going to the place where no one is vaccinated.

 

I've had the Pfizer jab which currently gives me 74% protection and when I get the second dose in a couple of months it will be 95% protection.

I get that, and if I were cruel, i'd simply dismiss the people in your survey as "snowflakes"  because I believe that there is always some risk in everything one does - however it's a matter of weighing it up and deciding on what is appropriate for oneself.

 

No vaccine provides one hundred percent protection  and I for one have frequently travelled to areas where Yellow Fever, Typhoid and other nasties were extant. Once I'd been jabbed, I felt safe and covid hasn't altered that - for me.

 

I've had my first AZ shot and research is starting to indicate that could give me 90+% protection, but, even if I did get Covid now, it would be far less serious.

 

I'll risk it as soon as I can ????