Undeterred by Facebook news blackout, Australia commits to content law

[SomchaiCNX]

35 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

What’s on Facebook’s site is their business. Not yours or any Australian’s. No one can tell you what to say; so can’t you tell Facebook. 

Every business should pay tax. FB is used (and abused) as a platform for macro indoctrination, if you don't see that, well.

 

 

 

[SomchaiCNX]

20 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

None of that is Facebook’s problem. They can do with their business as they wish. If you make yourself dependent on just one supplier, then that’s your own problem. It certainly doesn’t give you any rights over that supplier and you better not screw up that relationship. 

 

What an arrogance, they can, if they follow the rules and pay their taxes. I suggest that each government start by arresting the country managers if the company does not follow the rules. 

[mlmcleod]

2 hours ago, tifino said:

I was on about; that if FBk is going to blanket-BlackOut all else that is important (including all those vicitimised Pages regarding OZ Charities/Hospitals/Personal Tributes etc etc) - then they can bluddywell block ALL the Leftist propaganda pages too!!  

(if it good enough for the goose it is good for the gander)  

What do leftist news reports have to do with Australia's attempt to tax the golden gooses (ie. Google and Facebook) for allowing their users to post local news sources.  I think that if Oz decided to tax porn sites and leftist or rightist posts they would ban those too.  The bottom line is that taxing internet companies is counter-productive.

[welovesundaysatspace]

52 minutes ago, SomchaiCNX said:

Every business should pay tax. FB is used (and abused) as a platform for macro indoctrination, if you don't see that, well.

 

 

 

1. Facebook does pay taxes. 
2. The Australian government didn’t impose new taxes. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

49 minutes ago, SomchaiCNX said:

What an arrogance, they can, if they follow the rules and pay their taxes. I suggest that each government start by arresting the country managers if the company does not follow the rules. 

If Facebook broke any laws, or failed to pay taxes, then the Australian government can prosecute them for that. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, zyphodb said:

Why do I have to provide specific proof for voicing thoughts on a discussion forum? and then be accused of being a conspiracy theorist for having them?

When your “thoughts” are an accusation, then you should provide evidence for your accusation. If you can’t, then you’ll have to accept that other people consider it just another conspiracy theory. 
 

1 hour ago, zyphodb said:

 "Conspiracy theory" was promoted by the CIA in the 60's to be used as a label to shut down discussion of the Kennedy assassination, it now seems to be used by governments and media worldwide to shutdown discussions about anything inconvenient to the narrative that they're trying to push along with censorship of whatever they decide is "fake news" when did we lose the right of free speech???

You didn’t lose the right of free speech. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, tifino said:

a Master/Slave relationship

Not at all. Slaves aren’t free to go as they wish. 

[RocketDog]

7 minutes ago, car720 said:

Ok.  Let me be  clear, logical, and convincing, by saying that a government should be in a position to run official web sites, as should business and charities etc......  I see no reason whatsoever to use facebook which has never really changed from being a place to post photos of yourself sitting on the can.

OK, that is true. Personally I think Fakebook is a waste of digital ink, and have no use whatsoever for it. Why it should have any bearing on serious matters and reality in general is lost on me.

 

I view all social media as both potentially useful but more often a bane on humanity.

But hey, I guess people can waste their brains and lives any way they wish.

 

[natway09]

This reminds me of the protracted disagreements over music rights when we no longer needed to buy a record/tape/CD. to listen (& now watch) your  music. 

I am sure Murdoch's empire would have been in the mix with the Government's IRD asking why their annual tax  payment is going down.

As a "nanny state they have to get their money from somewhere, & this is as good a place

to start as any

 

[pacovl46]

On 2/19/2021 at 12:24 PM, mfd101 said:

Australia 1, Facebook 0 at half-time.

Looks to me more like 41% less traffic and therefore 41% less potential ad revenue trumps any potential fees they might have gotten from Facebook. They’re biting their own hand. It’s just silly! 

[pacovl46]

10 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

Facebook is in itself a form of cyberterrorism. They choose what they want to censure.. Decide what they think should be permitted or what they want the public to believe. Force you to divulge private information that is stored forever on their mainframes. They conspire with other platforms to block content based on their own perceptions. There is no freedom within the platform and those who use it daily are puppets to what facebook moderators deem good for your mentality. 

Platforms like facebook should permit freedoms to say what you think.. They should pay for news the same that is otherwise paid for on the news services sites. 

In essence their use of links collect them income and take away income from the news services platforms. I read many comments in here that prove most tvf posts do not seem to understand this. Imagine if you opened a website and charged money for registration or a flat fee to access the information that was on your link.. Then along comes FB and bypasses your link to pay for this access. You would want it stopped also. Then imagine because you told FB to stop that they blocked your other links for emergency aid or where to go for help.. FB is the one extorting.. FB is the one cheating and stealing. FB is the one that needs to be taken out to pasture. 

 Mate, it’s their platform and therefore their rules you have to abide by when you use their platform.

 

If you have a company it’s you who makes the rules and your workforce does as you say and not the other way round.

 

Having said that, Facebook has become increasingly more strict in recent months with their political correctness and it sucks big time!  

[pacovl46]

8 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

The governments worldwide are frustrated that Facebook is so successful while being untaxed!  If the Australians are so concerned by the local news blackout by Facebook it is a simple matter to set up a website for such news.  They can then tax it!

Facebook does pay taxes. I’m not sure about the rest of the world, but they do pay taxes in Australia! 

[pacovl46]

8 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

Sorry but a lot of American based platforms think they should not pay tax nor follow the rules and laws of the countries they are operating in. Instead of adjusting they send a busload of lobbyists (new name for people who pass out big brown envelopes) to try to change the laws in their favor.

Facebook does pay taxes in Australia! ! 

[pacovl46]

8 hours ago, simple1 said:

Oz government funds ABC Australia for around A$1 billion a year, also utilises the ABC platforms for public information broadcasts during emergencies e.g. bushfires. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/

 

Facebook Australia, as do other multinationals utilise aggressive tax avoidance, more politely, tax minimisation techniques, a worldwide problem which government struggle to address.

 

https://www.afr.com/companies/media-and-marketing/facebook-pays-less-than-17m-in-tax-in-australia-20200531-p54y1z

Ok, when you do your annual tax returns are you looking to get the maximum back or do you instruct your tax consultant to get the minimum so you can support your nation? I guess the former is the case, so why is it ok for you to get the maximum back, but not for companies? 

[pacovl46]

5 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

No, it’s not. It can’t even. It doesn’t have any jurisdiction over you. 

Facebook can and does very much tell you what you can or can’t say by posting on their platform! Trust me on that! 

[pacovl46]

4 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

Every business should pay tax. FB is used (and abused) as a platform for macro indoctrination, if you don't see that, well.

 

 

 

They Facebook DOES pay tax in Australia!!!

[pacovl46]

4 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

What an arrogance, they can, if they follow the rules and pay their taxes. I suggest that each government start by arresting the country managers if the company does not follow the rules. 

If you had a company with staff and you lay down the rules would that be arrogance, too?! And Facebook DOES pay tax in Australia!

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

They Facebook DOES pay tax in Australia!!!

The matter at issue is not about paying tax (ie to the State).

 

It's about paying for news items taken ('lifted' 'stolen') from commercial news organizations who have prepared & published those items at their own expense. Facebook's problem is that, if Oz succeeds in achieving a compulsory bargaining round between Facebook and Oz news publishers (as it has succeeded already with Google), then similar moves will be made in many of the other Western countries, starting with Canada.

[SomchaiCNX]

3 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

If you had a company with staff and you lay down the rules would that be arrogance, too?! And Facebook DOES pay tax in Australia!

Yes, they can but within the laws of the country where they are operating. Looks more like a copyright infringement and therefor illegal.

[SomchaiCNX]

3 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Facebook does pay taxes in Australia! ! 

Yes they do but, so does Starbucks, google and a couple more but take for example Uber. A taxi driver in most countries has to pay a lot of money for his license. A london taxi driver used to have a 2 year training and an exam. But Uber people don't. A lot of these companies in Europe used Ireland as the main base for tax invoices to avoid paying taxes in the country that they were actually operating or doing deliveries.  A big software company did provide the software for the French ministry of defense. Their French office was a couple blocks away yet the invoice was redirected to the headquarter in Ireland to avoid a huge amount of tax that should have gone back to the French tax department instead. Other examples are Amazone. So yes they pay taxes ???? and yes they try to bend the rules by sending lobbyist. The same thing happened in Thailand with Jeep, Suzuki was more successful than them because they followed the Thai rules and that made them cheap.  Now the only Suzuki Caribian and Sporty you can find is second hand and at least 15 years old. They send people to lobby and change to rules so that they (tought)  could sell more Jeeps. (who are ridiculously expensive by the way)  

[Scott]

A post from social media has been removed.  Here's the rule:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

[simple1]

12 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Ok, when you do your annual tax returns are you looking to get the maximum back or do you instruct your tax consultant to get the minimum so you can support your nation? I guess the former is the case, so why is it ok for you to get the maximum back, but not for companies? 

 

Unfortunately when I was working I couldn't afford millions of dollars to lobbyists for tax mitigation schemes. Facebook Australia does pay tax, but fought the ATO who eventually won and forced Facebook to pay an equitable amount in taxes. As a member mentioned above multinationals try very hard not to pay fair tax in their local country operations; one of the classic methods for attempted tax avoidance being paying 'royalties' to offshore H.O.

Edited February 21, 2021 by simple1

[welovesundaysatspace]

16 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Facebook can and does very much tell you what you can or can’t say by posting on their platform! Trust me on that! 

The question wasn’t was Facebook decides to do with their platform and their freedom of speech they enjoy there. Someone claimed that Facebook is restricting what he can say, which is not the case. Facebook doesn’t have jurisdiction over him or any individuals. 
 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by welovesundaysatspace

[welovesundaysatspace]

12 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

take for example Uber. A taxi driver in most countries has to pay a lot of money for his license. A london taxi driver used to have a 2 year training and an exam. But Uber people don't.

What does that have to do with Facebook paying taxes in Australia? 
 

Quote

A lot of these companies in Europe used Ireland as the main base for tax invoices to avoid paying taxes in the country that they were actually operating or doing deliveries.  A big software company did provide the software for the French ministry of defense. Their French office was a couple blocks away yet the invoice was redirected to the headquarter in Ireland to avoid a huge amount of tax that should have gone back to the French tax department instead.

You don’t “redirect” an invoice. It works differently and it’s completely legal. 

 

Quote

they try to bend the rules by sending lobbyist.

That’s nonsense. They don’t bend the rules as I wrote above. And the role of lobbyists isn’t to help bending rules but to influence what rules (laws) will be introduced in the first place.  

 

 

[Dart12]

Don't know what the government is crying about.  

They made a new law.  Facebook said ok, we don't break laws.

Facebook now abides by new such law by not letting Oz play on their platform.

Like if the annoying kid in your neighborhood wanted to swim in your pool and said you owed his mom money while he ate all your mom's cookies and lemonade free all day.

[Dart12]

2nd.  Facebook doesn't steal ANY content from news networks.  

Let me preface the following as well.  FB in the last year has shown it needs regulation as it's now editing and censuring and "fact checking" content ON it's site.  I despise their views and what they are getting away with here.

BUT, as for what people on here are saying?

They allow sites to share their links online to go to their actual site. (Free Traffic).
-FB actually HATES this and limits posts with links to almost zero notifications of other people.
They want you to stay on THEIR site.  They make no money if you leave.
--This kind of information FB wants you to PAY them to share via ads.

Any content put directly ON FB, is your fault.  FB doesn't ask your employees to post directly on their site "proprietary content'.

These news sites are getting the Holy Grail from FB...FREE, and INTERESTED traffic from FB's users.  Businesses LOVE this kind of traffic and 99% of time have to PAY for it in either cash or tons of content work.

It's their fault these dinasaur companies haven't learned how to monetize their business now that the world is conducted online.

[SomchaiCNX]

57 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The question wasn’t was Facebook decides to do with their platform and their freedom of speech they enjoy there. Someone claimed that Facebook is restricting what he can say, which is not the case. Facebook doesn’t have jurisdiction over him or any individuals. 
 

 

 

 

You have never been in FB jail I guess. In Europe many people with  ideas that are orientated to the right are temporarily banned when they post their view. 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The question wasn’t was Facebook decides to do with their platform and their freedom of speech they enjoy there. Someone claimed that Facebook is restricting what he can say, which is not the case. Facebook doesn’t have jurisdiction over him or any individuals. 

 

Facebook doesn’t have jurisdiction over him or any individuals. 

 

Is your claim accurate? As an example Facebook banned trump for disinformation, as I recall it was a business decision by Facebook, not imposed by way of compliance with government legislation, monitors posts using moderators and so on.

[SomchaiCNX]

On 2/21/2021 at 12:03 PM, welovesundaysatspace said:

What does that have to do with Facebook paying taxes in Australia? 
 

You don’t “redirect” an invoice. It works differently and it’s completely legal. 

 

That’s nonsense. They don’t bend the rules as I wrote above. And the role of lobbyists isn’t to help bending rules but to influence what rules (laws) will be introduced in the first place.  

 

 

Only part of the original posting was mentioned in the quote. Sorry it confused your intelligence ????

Sorry for the use of the wrong word, yes it was legal to use the system using a different billing addresses but I think the EU closed that loophole already.

Yet again you attack me on the English words that I haved used and thank you for writing in clear English that they are exactly doing that what I told they were doing. Same, same but different but the end result is exactly the same.

Edited February 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
personal comment removed

[simon43]

I'm laughing at all this outrage about FB!  It's a private company and makes its own rules, so long as they are legal.  You don't like FB rules?  Then go play elsewhere!  Your life will fall apart if you can't 'play' FB?  Tough!!  You shouldn't have planned your life around FB.

 

FB minimises taxes?  You're stupid if you don't! 

 

What a joke!  Politicians and news media crying in Oz because a private company won't pay for hyperlinks to their own websites....