Is It Still Worth Moving To Thailand?

[JR Texas]

What a load of crap.

When I came here to live, 20 years ago, practically no Farang could get a visa or work permit AT ALL and we were all running to Penang every two months.

All the other stuff was worse/harder too.

Thailand is much easier and more efficient than in the past.

The good old days are right now!

JR Texas to Ulysses G: Interesting perspective........completely wrong in my view........but interesting. It amazes me how some people can look at a mound of crap and see diamonds.

Hi JR

Same could apply from the opposite view! Must be something to do with perspective?

JR Texas: Of course the same could apply to the opposite view. I could have said that it amazes me how some people can look at a mount of diamonds and see crap.

Yes, the fact that our opinions differ is related to perspective. But it is important to note where perspective comes from.

Perspective is influenced by the totality of experience, including learning (what your teachers and parents told you....what your friends are telling you....books you have read, events you have witnessed, etc).

Perspective is, basically, a learned belief system that influences decision-making and action.

For the vast majority of the humans, perspective is largely influenced by emotion (an unfortunate reality). For others, perspective is largely influenced by reason (the stuff that underpins science).

Reason informs me that Thailand is going downhill fast and that these are not the "good old days." Emotion compels me to say something about it on this forum.

[Maigo6]

I wonder if all Thai people who have been hurt in their revenues by the visa shake up share your hope.

It's usually the poor Farangs, Illegal workers etc that cannot see a way to get a Visa, wealthier Farangs seem to have no problems.

Problem is with many Farangs, they just cannot get it into their skulls that Thailand is imposing Visa restrictions, yet when a Thai person wants to go to UK for instance, they have to undergo an almost Gestapo like interview pay the money, and then they may be refused and lose the money, just go to the Visa section in this Forum and see how many people have problems taking their Thai wives back to their own countries.

Many Farangs can just turn up in Thailand with 5 Baht in the pocket and get an instant 30 days (try doing that if you are Asian going to UK), followed by another 30 days, followed by yet another 30 days, you never had to apply for a Visa at all. Is it so hard to understand WHY the visa requirements are being stepped up.

Maybe Thailand should be more like the UK, you would have to Apply for a Visa at the Thai Embassy in UK and be questioned, show pay slips and bank books, letters from employers etc No more 30 day on arrival fee free entry to Thailand, no visa, no travel!!!...........

This is normal procedure for many of the worlds population wishing to travel, the problem is with westerners, they are so spoilt, they think they are above the developing world and expect the developing world to give them special treatment.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Maigo6

[JR Texas]

I wonder if all Thai people who have been hurt in their revenues by the visa shake up share your hope.

It's usually the poor Farangs, Illegal workers etc that cannot see a way to get a Visa, wealthier Farangs seem to have no problems.

Problem is with many Farangs, they just cannot get it into their skulls that Thailand is imposing Visa restrictions, yet when a Thai person wants to go to UK for instance, they have to undergo an almost Gestapo like interview pay the money, and then they may be refused and lose the money, just go to the Visa section in this Forum and see how many people have problems taking their Thai wives back to their own countries.

Many Farangs can just turn up in Thailand with 5 Baht in the pocket and get an instant 30 days (try doing that if you are Asian going to UK), followed by another 30 days, followed by yet another 30 days, you never had to apply for a Visa at all. Is it so hard to understand WHY the visa requirements are being stepped up.

Maybe Thailand should be more like the UK, you would have to Apply for a Visa at the Thai Embassy in UK and be questioned, show pay slips and bank books, letters from employers etc No more 30 day on arrival fee free entry to Thailand, no visa, no travel!!!...........

This is normal preocedure for many of the worlds population wishing to travel, the problem is with westerners, they are so spoilt, they think they are above the developing world and expect the developing world to give them special treatment.

JR Texas to Maigo6: Is that Maigo6 or Maigo 666?

[Maigo6]

JR Texas to Maigo6: Is that Maigo6 or Maigo 666?

It's about time Farangs realised that they are not the chosen people, many are not particularly desirable, look around you at many Farang in Thailand, would you want them in your country ?

Many people in UK bitch and moan about outsiders flooding into the UK, yet they expect to be able to travel wherever they want to free of problems.

Many here complain about Thailand being 3rd world, if being part of the First world means tightening up on Visa policy ( Like all 1st world countries ), then you should be happy with the start Thailand is making trying to follow your 1st world example.

What else would you like to change in Thailand to suit yourselves?

No doubt you will be leaving all the things that entice you to travel 1000's of Kms to Thailand, completely unchanged

[terry57]

JR Texas to Maigo6: Is that Maigo6 or Maigo 666?

It's about time Farangs realised that they are not the chosen people, many are not particularly desirable, look around you at many Farang in Thailand, would you want them in your country ?

Many people in UK bitch and moan about outsiders flooding into the UK, yet they expect to be able to travel wherever they want to free of problems.

Many here complain about Thailand being 3rd world, if being part of the First world means tightening up on Visa policy ( Like all 1st world countries ), then you should be happy with the start Thailand is making trying to follow your 1st world example.

What else would you like to change in Thailand to suit yourselves?

No doubt you will be leaving all the things that entice you to travel 1000's of Kms to Thailand, completely unchanged

mr maigo,

your last 2 posts have really hit the nail on the head and i support your views 100%.

nothing else to say really, as you have said it all. trouble is, some people just dont like to hear the truth.

[GuestHouse]

Many people in UK bitch and moan about outsiders flooding into the UK, yet they expect to be able to travel wherever they want to free of problems.

More than a few do this from someone else's country, seemingly oblivious to the absurdity of their argument.

But then they are seldom if ever the sharpest tools in the box.

[Edonista]

Only Thailand is ruled by such an evil elite that in order to keep high the profits of their (their is referred to the elite)export industry they chase away farang spenders and investors to avoid that their monetary inflow appreciates the baht .And in so doing, they show they do not care a satang about all the Thais that are suffering (and will more and more) because of chased away farang spending.

This is incorrect...farang spenders and investors can get a work permit and long term visa with no problem.

Edonista,

besides the fact that i think you are completely wrong your problem is that you don't seem to qualify for a retiree visa because you are younger than 50 years. all your raving and ranting about the procedures in other countries will not help to solve your problem. it is quite obvious you would like to stay in Thailand. so why not exploring other possibilities?

if company and work permit are too much of a hassle why not find a thai lady in the wilderness who for a certain monthly allowance would marry you but will still keep on living (very) happily in her village without breaking her back for 2-3000 baht a month in a rice field whereas you select any place in Thailand to live and enjoy your life.

it's not as complicated as it sounds!

You know better about bonds then visas.

Have a look to the visa section of this forum and see how difficult each visa class has become.

To get a marriage visa I need to show 40,000 baht monthly income. Will my bonds in an off-shore bank satisfy Immigration ? Hardly. My 8 million baht Thai stocks did not gain me an investor visa (must be fixed deposit in bank !), so I think that only 40,000 baht of faked domestic income would give me a marriage visa. That means set up a fake company , paying taxes, etc. Better take 4 planes to Penang each year.(we already discussed this in another thread, remember ?).

Also I think marriage is really dangerous for my assets, even with a lady in the wilderness (once she smells money she learns quickly about every legal and illegal ways to get it).

[PhilHarries]

Many people in UK bitch and moan about outsiders flooding into the UK, yet they expect to be able to travel wherever they want to free of problems.

More than a few do this from someone else's country, seemingly oblivious to the absurdity of their argument.

But then they are seldom if ever the sharpest tools in the box.

I think a lot of people complain about the economic migrants who bring nothing to the country except a willingness to do the same job as a native for less money. They then proceed to live 20 to a house, spending as little as they possibly can and sending the rest back to their families in their homeland.

If you are the householder who wants a plumbing job done and a Romainian does it for 50 quid while a Brit plumber wouldn't get off his ar5e for less than a hundred it is a good thing. But if you're that British plumber who suddenly finds he's having to slash his standard of living sure he's gonna complain.

You might say the Brit has it coming to him, payback for all those years he's been creaming it but we each of us have to look at what we've been paid over the years and ask would we be happy seeing cheap labour erode our lifestyle?

But to get back kinda on topic I agree that it would be wholly equitable if Thailand were to apply the same visa requirements on western countries as are applied to her citizens except for the fact that the Thai economy depends to an extent on western tourists. How much of an effect the deletion of the visa exemption would have is open to debate. It might just mean a network of agents springing up in, say, the UK who do all the legwork and get the visa for a small additional fee. Those who are here working or retired or married would be unaffected as the legal ones have visas and the absence those few who can't get a visa wouldn't be noticed.

[Tod Daniels]

I will voice for the record;

I am alarmed to be once again on the ‘same side of the fence’ as Maigo6 in this issue; but the truth is the truth.

The enforcement of the visa laws may be of consternation to; the great majority of ‘english teachers’ here without work permits, the married without proper visas and living in นครไม่มีที่ไหน อีสาน supporting an extended family on a shoestring budget crowd, as well as the long stay whore-mongers or 'sex-pats' too poor to get retirement visas and staying here on the ‘free-2-stay-30-day’ passes.

For the most part, any foreigner with enough money and marginal sense can easily get a year long visa to the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” from a number of countries outside Asia. Of my friends (which given my cynical, acerbic wit; granted are few) who live here full time, not a single one was impacted with the visa enforcement changes. This country is a walk in the park to get a visa compared to other countries; IF you play by their rules. That the rules change or seem to be in flux is their prerogative; it is after all, THEIR country.

The changes to and enforcement of the visa laws will have little or no impact on tourism dollars to thailand as a whole. Studies show the bulk of tourists are from Asia, they are usually in group tours, they stay an average of 19 days, and they spend in excess of 3700 baht a day, excluding lodging. I would wager most of the "free-2-stay-30 day" people don't spend that in a week.

That these 'free-2 stay-30-day' people contribute significantly to the thai economy is a complete fallacy. Believe me your street vendor isn’t gonna close up shop because you don’t buy your daily fish-on-a-stick or som-tam. Other than fueling the billion baht money train to Issan, as well as showing profits for Chang, Singha, Leo and Tiger, I can't see the HUGE financial benefits to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" that everyone alludes to them losing out on with the visa changes. I am and always will be proud to be an American, but I am all too often embarrassed by my drunken countrymen’s actions here.

Conversely trying to get a thai person a visa to either the US or the UK is a NITEMARE. It is more than gestapo like tactics, it is down right shameful to see the vetting process a thai national is subject to and has to endure to get a visa. Both countries operate under the premise that a thai is unlikely to return at the end of the visa. It is up to the individual applying for said visa to prove they have ample assets in thailand to motivate them to return home at the visa's expiration, and then it is still ‘discretionary’ as to the approval of the visa.

I see nothing wrong with the glorious "Land 'O Thais" bringing the bar up a notch to weed out what they consider undesirable elements. The whiners are just too poor, too stupid, or too caught up in the 'poor-poor-pitiful-me song & dance' to play the game.

I retired at 45, am 48 now, so too young for a retirement visa here. I have been using thailand as a hub to tour S/E Asia and it has been a perfect place to live. My Non-O visa lets me leave as many times a year as I want to, returning each time with fresh 90 day stamp. I'm not hassled at the border, and I return home each year to acquire another visa. However; not having to work, not drinking, not being married to, involved with, or supporting a thai-gurl, I realize my requirements may differ from yours.

Is it worth it for the retired person on a limited amount of funds to move here? I would say only you can decide. If you’re considering a move here, I would caution to weigh the financial pros and cons carefully; as well as the volatility of the currency and political situation. Get a year visa in your country before you come and try it out, it will save you many headaches. Believe me the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is NOT for everyone, but at least for now, it is for me.

Edited May 22, 2007 by tod-daniels

[Edonista]

I wonder if all Thai people who have been hurt in their revenues by the visa shake up share your hope.

It's usually the poor Farangs, Illegal workers etc that cannot see a way to get a Visa, wealthier Farangs seem to have no problems.

I am not poor. I am not working illegally. My only fault is to be too young.

Many other people share my same fortune of living on savings on middle age. It is quite foolish Thailand chases them away to Philippines, Malaysia or Cambodia.

Problem is with many Farangs, they just cannot get it into their skulls that Thailand is imposing Visa restrictions, yet when a Thai person wants to go to UK for instance, they have to undergo an almost Gestapo like interview pay the money, and then they may be refused and lose the money, just go to the Visa section in this Forum and see how many people have problems taking their Thai wives back to their own countries.

First world countries are afraid of fake marriages that cover prostitution traffic.They are also afraid of poor people coming just to milk their fat welfare state. What does this matter with well off people coming to spend their money in Thailand ? We pay everything here, we get nothing for free.

Many Farangs can just turn up in Thailand with 5 Baht in the pocket and get an instant 30 days (try doing that if you are Asian going to UK), followed by another 30 days, followed by yet another 30 days, you never had to apply for a Visa at all. Is it so hard to understand WHY the visa requirements are being stepped up..

Yes it is. Because I wonder how many of those 5 baht farangs went to the (non existant) Thai social security asking money, and how many instead spent their pensions or foreign income to the benefit of Thai people. My guess is 0% the former, 100% the latter.

Maybe Thailand should be more like the UK, you would have to Apply for a Visa at the Thai Embassy in UK and be questioned, show pay slips and bank books, letters from employers etc No more 30 day on arrival fee free entry to Thailand, no visa, no travel!!!...........

This is normal procedure for many of the worlds population wishing to travel, the problem is with westerners, they are so spoilt, they think they are above the developing world and expect the developing world to give them special treatment.

I am not asking for special treatment, but for logic treatment. Like indefinitely renewable tourist visa at Immigration for a 2,000 baht monthly fee. If they pick me smoking yaba or working illegally, they are always free to kick my ass out.

[GuestHouse]

I am not asking for special treatment, but for logic treatment

Are we still discussing Thailand?

Edited May 22, 2007 by GuestHouse

[Edonista]

JR Texas: Is it still worth moving to Thailand?

If you do not mind living in a country where The Three Stooges are in charge of drafting the visa/business rules, then it is for you (any person that tells you the visa/business rule solutions are simple does not know what they are talking about).

If you do not mind living in country where it is next to impossible to start a small business and make it successful because of the visa/business rules, then it is for you.

If you do not mind living in a country that is turning xenophobic and striving to break up farang-Thai families, then it is for you.

If you do not mind living in a country that is doing virtually everything it can to force expats out of the country, then it is for you.

Are there still positives? Yes........but many people that have lived here a long time (even those with no visa problems like myself) are seriously considering leaving.

Make your decision wisely..........Thailand is not a tropical paradise..........those days, if they ever existed, are long since over.

How true... .....

[uptou]

I am not asking for special treatment, but for logic treatment. Like indefinitely renewable tourist visa at Immigration for a 2,000 baht monthly fee. If they pick me smoking yaba or working illegally, they are always free to kick my ass out.

having to leave thailand to go to laos,malaysia,etc,to renew a visa,& be spending money in another country while doing so is not logical to me.i think the inconvenience is the main reason why people are unhappy with things.seing as thailand needs tourism,why not just allow people to pay at an immigration office in thailand?

[Edonista]

I am not asking for special treatment, but for logic treatment

Are we still discussing Thailand?

I assure you I never expected my demand to be fulfilled, not even for a moment

Edited May 22, 2007 by Edonista

[torito]

....We pay everything here, we get nothing for free.

'Edonista', please let me know where things are for free....my luggage is ready!!!!

[torito]

The changes to and enforcement of the visa laws will have little or no impact on tourism dollars to thailand as a whole. Studies show the bulk of tourists are from Asia, they are usually in group tours, they stay an average of 19 days, and they spend in excess of 3700 baht a day, excluding lodging. I would wager most of the "free-2-stay-30 day" people don't spend that in a week.

That these 'free-2 stay-30-day' people contribute significantly to the thai economy is a complete fallacy. Believe me your street vendor isn't gonna close up shop because you don't buy your daily fish-on-a-stick or som-tam. Other than fueling the billion baht money train to Issan, as well as showing profits for Chang, Singha, Leo and Tiger, I can't see the HUGE financial benefits to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" that everyone alludes to them losing out on with the visa changes. I am and always will be proud to be an American, but I am all too often embarrassed by my drunken countrymen's actions here.

save you many headaches. Believe me the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is NOT for everyone, but at least for now, it is for me.

'tod-daniels' , you have made very important points in here, but I would like to add others to eliminate the myth that we farangs move the economy of this country.

Thai economy is export-dependent, no farangs dependent. In fact Tourism contributes only 4% of the Thai GDP, and those farangs who complain about the visa issues are included in this group.

I do not believe that 4% less will change too much the standard of living in Thailand.

[Edonista]

....We pay everything here, we get nothing for free.

'Edonista', please let me know where things are for free....my luggage is ready!!!!

If a immigrant, even an illegal one, is pregnant , she gets free hospital assistance in Italy.

Now that you know that, you can first change sex (many Thai hospitals have great experience in such matter), then get pregnant, then finally smuggle yourself into Italy so you can enjoy our free medical care

[Edonista]

The changes to and enforcement of the visa laws will have little or no impact on tourism dollars to thailand as a whole. Studies show the bulk of tourists are from Asia, they are usually in group tours, they stay an average of 19 days, and they spend in excess of 3700 baht a day, excluding lodging. I would wager most of the "free-2-stay-30 day" people don't spend that in a week.

That these 'free-2 stay-30-day' people contribute significantly to the thai economy is a complete fallacy. Believe me your street vendor isn't gonna close up shop because you don't buy your daily fish-on-a-stick or som-tam. Other than fueling the billion baht money train to Issan, as well as showing profits for Chang, Singha, Leo and Tiger, I can't see the HUGE financial benefits to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" that everyone alludes to them losing out on with the visa changes. I am and always will be proud to be an American, but I am all too often embarrassed by my drunken countrymen's actions here.

save you many headaches. Believe me the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is NOT for everyone, but at least for now, it is for me.

'tod-daniels' , you have made very important points in here, but I would like to add others to eliminate the myth that we farangs move the economy of this country.

Thai economy is export-dependent, no farangs dependent. In fact Tourism contributes only 4% of the Thai GDP, and those farangs who complain about the visa issues are included in this group.

I do not believe that 4% less will change too much the standard of living in Thailand.

GDP statistics can be deceptive. I wonder if they take into account all the money farangs give to their girlfriends, even the short time ones. They for sure take into account the salary increse the Junta gave to itself, that being high value public spending .

Also consider that farang money goes to poor people that really needs it and puts it back in circle, while export money goes to the Thai elite that either squanders it in ultra-luxury items or puts in some useless real estate bubble development.

[GuestHouse]

Also consider that farang money goes to poor people that really needs it and puts it back in circle, while export money goes to the Thai elite that either squanders it in ultra-luxury items or puts in some useless real estate bubble development.

That statement is based on some pretty dodgy assumptions, not least of which is the idea that foreigners giving money to poor Thais is actually helping anyone.

We know from the evidence of a number of members here on TV, that giving money to poor Thais often does little other than to discourage them from working for a living, taking up or continuing education. And that is not to mention the lure of easy money working the bar scene.

[Naam]

I wonder if all Thai people who have been hurt in their revenues by the visa shake up share your hope.

It's usually the poor Farangs, Illegal workers etc that cannot see a way to get a Visa, wealthier Farangs seem to have no problems.

Problem is with many Farangs, they just cannot get it into their skulls that Thailand is imposing Visa restrictions, yet when a Thai person wants to go to UK for instance, they have to undergo an almost Gestapo like interview pay the money, and then they may be refused and lose the money, just go to the Visa section in this Forum and see how many people have problems taking their Thai wives back to their own countries.

Many Farangs can just turn up in Thailand with 5 Baht in the pocket and get an instant 30 days (try doing that if you are Asian going to UK), followed by another 30 days, followed by yet another 30 days, you never had to apply for a Visa at all. Is it so hard to understand WHY the visa requirements are being stepped up.

Maybe Thailand should be more like the UK, you would have to Apply for a Visa at the Thai Embassy in UK and be questioned, show pay slips and bank books, letters from employers etc No more 30 day on arrival fee free entry to Thailand, no visa, no travel!!!...........

This is normal procedure for many of the worlds population wishing to travel, the problem is with westerners, they are so spoilt, they think they are above the developing world and expect the developing world to give them special treatment.

although (quite often) i don't like "Maigo's" attitude and stance but when he is right he is right. PERIOD! you "Edonista" should finally face reality and the fact that hardly any poor thai people are hurt by the so-called visa shake-up.

[torito]

Also consider that farang money goes to poor people that really needs

Yeah, I have noticed the altruist spirit of farangs like yourself.....I wonder how many poor families have now a prosperous future thanks to your touch Edonista.

Edited May 22, 2007 by torito

[torito]

although (quite often) i don't like "Maigo's" attitude and stance but when he is right he is right. PERIOD!

Dr. Naam...I would add, "in those exceptional ocassions"

[Naam]

You know better about bonds then visas.

Have a look to the visa section of this forum and see how difficult each visa class has become.

Edonista,

although it is not appropriate to mention it here's one last hint for you. my wife and me are on retirement visa (renewed twice) and until this very day we have never seen any thai embassy or consulate nor any immigration office from the inside. i am also convinced that we would be living in Thailand without the qualifying age. do you get my point?

[Naam]

although (quite often) i don't like "Maigo's" attitude and stance but when he is right he is right. PERIOD!

Dr. Naam...I would add, "in those exceptional ocassions"

claro que sí!

[LoveDaBlues]

JR Texas: Is it still worth moving to Thailand?

If you do not mind living in a country where The Three Stooges are in charge of drafting the visa/business rules, then it is for you (any person that tells you the visa/business rule solutions are simple does not know what they are talking about).

If you do not mind living in country where it is next to impossible to start a small business and make it successful because of the visa/business rules, then it is for you.

If you do not mind living in a country that is turning xenophobic and striving to break up farang-Thai families, then it is for you.

If you do not mind living in a country that is doing virtually everything it can to force expats out of the country, then it is for you.

Are there still positives? Yes........but many people that have lived here a long time (even those with no visa problems like myself) are seriously considering leaving.

Make your decision wisely..........Thailand is not a tropical paradise..........those days, if they ever existed, are long since over.

This is a false statement. I've been here 2 years; started with a non-imm "O" at age 49 and since turning 50 have a retirement visa. If they wanted me to leave they could simply do away with the retirement visa. I see no signs that this will happen in the near or distant future.

As far as the small business comments there's plenty of farangs who have been in business 5,10 years and longer. I guess all these guys are genius because they did the 'impossible'.

There are 'doers' and then there are.......well.......

[Naam]

There are 'doers' and then there are.......well.......

[torito]

There are 'doers' and then there are.......well.......

[Naam]

There are 'doers' and then there are.......well.......

there are also stubborn ones like the man who has come from a country far away, feels hungry and enters a bakery. he takes a few croissants and wants to walk away.

baker: che cazzo! where's my dough? no dough no croissants!

man: in your neighbouring countries croissants are (more or less) free.

baker: feel free to go to my neighbouring countries.

another man from a similar country far away enters the bakery, throws a fistful of coins on the table, takes a dozen croissants and starts to eat the first one when leaving the bakery. both the baker and the man are happy.

the story goes on:

another man from a country far away enters the bakery and asks for some croissants.

baker: you have to prove that you are not HIV infected, submit your credentials which show that you acquired a degree, bring both your grandparents to vouch personally for your integrity as well as a letter of recommendation from the government of your home country. once you have complied with these demands i might sell you some croissants.

the other man... leaves the bakery, hires a "consultant" for a fistful of money who walks into the bakery, buys croissants and hands them over. baker, consultant and "other man" are happy.

[LoveDaBlues]

There are 'doers' and then there are.......well.......

there are also stubborn ones like the man who has come from a country far away, feels hungry and enters a bakery. he takes a few croissants and wants to walk away.

baker: che cazzo! where's my dough? no dough no croissants!

man: in your neighbouring countries croissants are (more or less) free.

baker: feel free to go to my neighbouring countries.

another man from a similar country far away enters the bakery, throws a fistful of coins on the table, takes a dozen croissants and starts to eat the first one when leaving the bakery. both the baker and the man are happy.

the story goes on:

another man from a country far away enters the bakery and asks for some croissants.

baker: you have to prove that you are not HIV infected, submit your credentials which show that you acquired a degree, bring both your grandparents to vouch personally for your integrity as well as a letter of recommendation from the government of your home country. once you have complied with these demands i might sell you some croissants.

the other man... leaves the bakery, hires a "consultant" for a fistful of money who walks into the bakery, buys croissants and hands them over. baker, consultant and "other man" are happy.

well done. after all, TiT.......

[Edonista]

JR Texas: Is it still worth moving to Thailand?

If you do not mind living in a country where The Three Stooges are in charge of drafting the visa/business rules, then it is for you (any person that tells you the visa/business rule solutions are simple does not know what they are talking about).

If you do not mind living in country where it is next to impossible to start a small business and make it successful because of the visa/business rules, then it is for you.

If you do not mind living in a country that is turning xenophobic and striving to break up farang-Thai families, then it is for you.

If you do not mind living in a country that is doing virtually everything it can to force expats out of the country, then it is for you.

Are there still positives? Yes........but many people that have lived here a long time (even those with no visa problems like myself) are seriously considering leaving.

Make your decision wisely..........Thailand is not a tropical paradise..........those days, if they ever existed, are long since over.

This is a false statement. I've been here 2 years; started with a non-imm "O" at age 49 and since turning 50 have a retirement visa. If they wanted me to leave they could simply do away with the retirement visa. I see no signs that this will happen in the near or distant future.

As far as the small business comments there's plenty of farangs who have been in business 5,10 years and longer. I guess all these guys are genius because they did the 'impossible'.

There are 'doers' and then there are.......well.......

They are not genius, they simply have others assets (securities in foreign banks) whose return covers not only their living expenses but also the losses generated by their businesses