Benz/BMW - Not That Expensive. What's the alternative?

[SiSePuede419]

22 minutes ago, sead said:

Only a jeep counts as a vehicle in Thailand

Fiat, Chrysler, Dodge, Peugeot.

Four failures in one Jeep. ????

Test drove a brand new Jeep 5 years ago.  Put it in 4WD, but the 4WD light didn't come on.  TEST DRIVE OVER.

The sales idiot tried to lie to me and told me that it really was in 4WD.  Told him I wasn't that stupid.  Left dealership.

Got a call from the manager saying they "forgot" to hook up something that engages the 4WD.

What a pile of <deleted>, brand new from the factory. ????

[l4ml4m]

13 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Much better build quality than any other make - Lexus

 

and ugly from the first day also !

how ridiculous are people who pay for this ?

I can't stop laughing...

[l4ml4m]

6 hours ago, Wiggy said:

And you really get respect on the roads.

 

Not from me you won't. I don't give a damn what people drive; if they screw up they get the same treatment as Mr Tuk-Tuk.

 

yes keyboard warrior, let's see if you don't brake on a circle when you see me coming ????

trust me, even 8 lorries trucks stop, so i am not worried about you...

 

[richard_smith237]

30 minutes ago, l4ml4m said:

 

yes keyboard warrior, let's see if you don't brake on a circle when you see me coming ????

trust me, even 8 lorries trucks stop, so i am not worried about you...

 

 

I can hear you loading your ammo-clip into your keyboard !!!

 

It’s just car !!! hilarious the way some people get so bent out of shape and go all keyboard-rambo !!!

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by richard_smith237

[ukrules]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I can hear you loading your ammo-clip into your keyboard !!!

 

It’s just car !!! hilarious the way some people get so bent out of shape and go all keyboard-rambo !!!

Yep, the TV Chairborne division is getting ready ????

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, ukrules said:

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I can hear you loading your ammo-clip into your keyboard !!!

 

It’s just car !!! hilarious the way some people get so bent out of shape and go all keyboard-rambo !!!

Expand  

Yep, the TV Chairborne division is getting ready ????

Someones about to get CAPS-LOCKED to death !!!! ????

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

According to a mechanic with over 50 years experience (yeah, what does he know? ????)...

 

Mercedes/BMW/Audi/VW/Porsche all fall apart at high mileage, and need expensive repairs (Germans don't make low maintenance cars that are easy to repair) and turn into ENDLESS MONEY PITS.

Way better off buying a Toyota or Honda.  <deleted> "fun to drive" or "good looks". ????

A mechanic for 50 years? One would think that after twenty he’d a maybe at least made service manager, unless he couldn’t hold down a job?  

 

How many times have we heard this kind of thing?

[owl sees all]

Tesla will be here soon.

The Chinese are backing Musky big time. Convert any dosh that might be burning a hole in ya pocket into gold and sit tight. Will soon be fantastic deals.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Tesla will be here soon.

The Chinese are backing Musky big time. Convert any dosh that might be burning a hole in ya pocket into gold and sit tight. Will soon be fantastic deals.

 

IF Tesla were in Thailand already, had a dealer network and didn’t have outrageous tax - I’d have one in a heartbeat - they’re perfect as a City Run around vehicle.

 

Thailand wants to push electric vehicles yet still taxes the £$%& out of imported EV which IMO is rather hypocritical.

 

 

 

 

[gargamon]

11 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

I’m interested

This is the article I was referring to: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership/ It's a teaser article though and isn't complete as they want you to subscribe... It would likely be prohibited to post the whole thing.

Another(complete) one was about repair costs by brand: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair/cars-suvs-with-highest-repair-costs-for-common-fixes/

Here's a (complete)report they did on which used cars to avoid: https://www.consumerreports.org/used-cars/used-cars-to-avoid-buying/?EXTKEY=NC11NRSN2&utm_source=acxiom&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210112_nsltr_cars

Whiule the OP isn't looking for a used card, it's good to see which manufacturers hold up. Note that they have no Toyotas on this list...

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, gargamon said:

This is the article I was referring to: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership/ It's a teaser article though and isn't complete as they want you to subscribe... It would likely be prohibited to post the whole thing.

Another(complete) one was about repair costs by brand: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-repair/cars-suvs-with-highest-repair-costs-for-common-fixes/

Here's a (complete)report they did on which used cars to avoid: https://www.consumerreports.org/used-cars/used-cars-to-avoid-buying/?EXTKEY=NC11NRSN2&utm_source=acxiom&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210112_nsltr_cars

Whiule the OP isn't looking for a used card, it's good to see which manufacturers hold up. Note that they have no Toyotas on this list...

Thats good info... but, when considering a new car its worth considering the maintenance packages etc.

BMW / Merc / Volvo all have 5 year inclusive maintenance and warranty.

Mazda, Ford, Toyota, 3 years I think.

 

So.. IF I’m not mistaken with my assumption - after purchase the BMW / Merc / Volvo are cost free for 5 years (except fuel and insurance) and while the ‘others’ will involve servicing costs etc after 3.

 

 

[upu2]

20 hours ago, pedro01 said:

OK - this isn't a wind up.

You can buy an imported VW or Audi and because of the tax, you will pay as much as a locally assembled BMW or Merc.

I've told the tale of how a few years back we wanted a small, sporty hatchback and the Benz GLA 250 AMG was the best choice. All the local small cars were 1.1 liter slowboxes. The Subaru's dealers wouldn't let you test drive if they had stock and generally, the imported cars were insanely expensive. 

So to me - the price of a BMW/Benz is cheaper than equivalently powered imports. More expensive than Japanese cars of course but better to drive and it's not a bad thing that you get special parking privileges. And the other special attention. 

A Golf VW Golf 8 with a 1.5 liter 150hp engine is 2.6 million.

A BMW 220i Gran Coupe M Sport is 2.1 million with 176 horses

A BMW 330e M Sport is 2.7million with 292 horses

Now I do understand this is an emotive topic but I always hear 2 things but can't figure it out

1. You can get a better car for the money. Well - not an imported one, so that leaves the local Jap cars. Which ones are better than BMW/Benz in the same class? Are we saying Camry is better than
2. Price/Horses - as you edge to higher performance but not the 300% bracket - Benz/BMW  seem like a positive bargain. The Benz C43 has a respectable 385 horses at 4 million Baht

So whether you are looking for comfort and style on runs or a bit of muscle - I don't see anything here that matches what Benz/BMW have.

Of course - I would not recommend a BMW if you only have one car, unless you like walking. But where are all these better, cheaper cars in the same class? I don't see it.

Mind you - I will say one thing - that 'special attention' you get sure wears off as the car ages and these car park attendants seem to be trained to tell the difference between differently priced models. This isn't just snobbery, it seems to be educated, focused snobbery. 

A larg part of the BMW cost is duty but when it is assembled in country, as i believe BMW now are or at least according to a BMW salesman, the duty is very much reduced. Reality is they are still twice the price model for model as in Europe.

What is the explanation for that?

[Wiggy]

2 hours ago, l4ml4m said:

 

yes keyboard warrior, let's see if you don't brake on a circle when you see me coming ????

trust me, even 8 lorries trucks stop, so i am not worried about you...

 

What’s an 8 lorries truck?

[Patong2021]

Such silly praise for Mercedes & BMW low quality products. The parts fail after a few years, the plastics crack and rattles as they deteriorate.  If someone is impressed by low end models that says more about the person than anything else.  Sad to say, but BMW and Mercedes vehicles are not good quality now. The japanese Toyota and Honda autos rule the market because of their reliability.  I want vehicle that does not need to go to shop and run up big bill every few months.

Silly because this thread is features the  obsession of what a parking lot attendant says or does. I don't care what the    parking  guy thinks. There is a reason why he works in parking lot and I can purchase a money without financing, yes? Give the guy 20-100 baht and he will find parking space.  Do the math - buying reliable vehicle that does not need expensive  repair ever few months  vs. paying  parking attendant somtam money is much better value proposition.  This is why some people are wealthy and others are in debt  worrying what others think of car.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Patong2021 said:

Such silly praise for Mercedes & BMW low quality products. The parts fail after a few years, the plastics crack and rattles as they deteriorate.  If someone is impressed by low end models that says more about the person than anything else.  Sad to say, but BMW and Mercedes vehicles are not good quality now. The japanese Toyota and Honda autos rule the market because of their reliability.  I want vehicle that does not need to go to shop and run up big bill every few months.

Then you don’t know what you are talking about - BMW & Merc have 6 year warranties, other manufacturers don’t. 

The reality is ALL cars are a lot better than the used to be. The plastics don’t crack and the rattles are few and far between on any car, German or Japanese. 

The German cars are better than their Japanese counterparts, but they are not twice as good and not worth the twice the price IMO. 

I recently switched from an X5 to a CX-5 - Both excellent cars in their own right. The X5 was not worth 4.6 Million when the CX-5 cost 1.7 - BUT, if the X3 were the same price as the CX-5, I’d get the X3, not for the badge but for the better quality, because when all chips are removed off shoulders the Germans are still the better car. 

That said, I’d go for the Volvo XC60 any day of the week if the prices were similar to the Japanese or Ford counterparts.

 

1 minute ago, Patong2021 said:

Silly because this thread is features the  obsession of what a parking lot attendant says or does. I don't care what the    parking  guy thinks. There is a reason why he works in parking lot and I can purchase a money without financing, yes? Give the guy 20-100 baht and he will find parking space.  Do the math - buying reliable vehicle that does not need expensive  repair ever few months  vs. paying  parking attendant somtam money is much better value proposition.  This is why some people are wealthy and others are in debt  worrying what others think of car.

Agreed on this point. 

I certainly won’t buy a car if I don’t like the look of it. But it is the quality of the vehicle itself, the materials, the interior which make up the biggest factor in my decision making. I don’t really care for the make (which is why I went from an X5 to a CX-5 - I liked it).

All cars are reliable these days, yes there are lemons, but every car I’ve had (except RR) have been reliable, every car my friends have had; german or Japanese, have been completely reliable. 

If you are doing the Math and comparing repairs every month then the math is wrong or you are looking at buying a second hand car when it is 8 or more years old, in which case yes, go for the Japanese because there are more of them, more spares, cheaper to service etc... 

 

 

[whaleboneman]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

A mechanic for 50 years? One would think that after twenty he’d a maybe at least made service manager, unless he couldn’t hold down a job?  

 

How many times have we heard this kind of thing?

I think he may be talking about Scotty Kilmer - famous YouTube mechanic. Diehard gearheads never want to be promoted to office jobs as it's not what they like to do.

[ujayujay]

19 hours ago, l4ml4m said:

Clearly they are cheaper and cheaper.

 

And you really get respect on the roads.

 

Never any POS somchai dares to cut the way or use his horn when I am driving a German car, but it always happen in a $hit truck, as they see you as similar to them.

 

 

 

 

Dream on????????????????

[GWS]

I wouldn't get to excited about parking cones getting moved for a  German car. My slightly modified Ford  Everest usally gets the same service in most non rural shopping center car parks which I always decline. Saying that i have no intention of parking at EmQuartier either.

[gargamon]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats good info... but, when considering a new car its worth considering the maintenance packages etc.

BMW / Merc / Volvo all have 5 year inclusive maintenance and warranty.

Mazda, Ford, Toyota, 3 years I think.

 

So.. IF I’m not mistaken with my assumption - after purchase the BMW / Merc / Volvo are cost free for 5 years (except fuel and insurance) and while the ‘others’ will involve servicing costs etc after 3.

 

 

That looks right. I like to think of lifetime costs of a vehicle, not just the first few years. I tend to drive them until they die. My ego doesn't need the boost of a new car every few years. My Toyota pickup didn't die, but I had to get rid of it anyway with 240k miles and 22 years old. Still going strong for the new owner. Never took it to a Toyota dealer other than for a couple of minor recalls. 

[canthai55]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF Tesla were in Thailand already, had a dealer network and didn’t have outrageous tax - I’d have one in a heartbeat - they’re perfect as a City Run around vehicle.

Better do some research before you buy. Like how long the batteries last, why you can only have them repaired at a Tesla dealer, how if involved in a fender bender they will refuse to repair them.

Elon Musk reminds me of PT Barnum - 555

[CharlieH]

Reported Inflammatory remarks removed.

[mogandave]

21 hours ago, upu2 said:

A larg part of the BMW cost is duty but when it is assembled in country, as i believe BMW now are or at least according to a BMW salesman, the duty is very much reduced. Reality is they are still twice the price model for model as in Europe.

What is the explanation for that?

Excise tax

[mogandave]

15 hours ago, GWS said:

I wouldn't get to excited about parking cones getting moved for a  German car. My slightly modified Ford  Everest usally gets the same service in most non rural shopping center car parks which I always decline. Saying that i have no intention of parking at EmQuartier either.

Why would you be driving through the parking lot if you don’t want to park? 

[jackdd]

23 hours ago, upu2 said:

A larg part of the BMW cost is duty but when it is assembled in country, as i believe BMW now are or at least according to a BMW salesman, the duty is very much reduced. Reality is they are still twice the price model for model as in Europe.

What is the explanation for that?

At this price they make the most profit.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

17 hours ago, GWS said:

I wouldn't get to excited about parking cones getting moved for a  German car. My slightly modified Ford  Everest usally gets the same service in most non rural shopping center car parks which I always decline. Saying that i have no intention of parking at EmQuartier either.

Why would you be driving through the parking lot if you don’t want to park? 

In fairness with reverse snobbery aside...  EmQuatier is one of the best places in central Bangkok to park up at. 

It has very quick valet parking...  the basement food court is excellent, the Helix has some excellent restaurants if that takes your fancy, hoping across to Emporium is very convenient or you can use the Sky-train to get across the city (to Siam Square, MBK or out to ChatuChak). Gateway Ekammai is equally convenient to park at when wishing to get out on the BTS (but has no Valet). 

We live closer to Petchaburi side, so a mall with convenient parking is good for us. 

 

VIP or Supercar parking - Wife has the Platinum Parking thing, but Valet is still so much quicker. 

IF I had a Supercar I wouldn’t want a valet driving it, I can see why they have supercar parking... Comical when a BMW 3 or 5 series sneaks in !

 

The same with Bike Parking... I hate it when I have to park my bike with the other scooters - scooter riders are the worst, they park so close that I can’t ‘up-right’ my bike from the stand etc...  the don’t look after other bikes etc other scooter riders just throw their bike in there and walk off.

Its much better when a mall or parking area has a dedicated ‘big bike’ area (and I can sneak my 300cc GS in there). 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by richard_smith237

[pedro01]

On 3/11/2021 at 3:49 PM, Bob12345 said:

I cant say i really understand the point of this topic. Is there an alternative to a merc/bmw? It all depends on why you want one.

To go from A to B the alternative can be a motorbike or the skytrain. To get supercar parking in shopping malls or be percieved as "important" by some a motorbike wont work. If you really want a BMW then there is no alternative in the world, not even a Porsche or Bentley will do.

 

So buy a bmw or mercedes if you want one and have the money. No need to find excuses for your purchase, just enjoy it. And also no need to brag about it, just enjoy the car.

I would agree with that.

Most of these discussions end up with people saying that these cars are more expensive and that there are better alternatives on the market for the same price.

But I see some models, where there is no cheaper equivalent. Where the BMW/Benz are either the only option or cheaper when the other options are imports.

So the brag isn't the Benz but the Golf.

[pedro01]

On 3/11/2021 at 5:06 PM, Upnotover said:

Why?

The fella that had this flatbed ended up giving me a card which he stamped every time he picked it up.

10 picks up and your next was free.

It's gone now. The repairs were free.

With Benz, it's a much shorter warranty and no free servicing, so you are mostly paying for the car. 

With BMW, warranty is longer as is the 'free servicing' - and there's 60% tax on all of it (I believe), even though it's obviously not car you are paying for.

I've soured on BMW a little, obviously.

[pedro01]

On 3/11/2021 at 10:35 PM, Patong2021 said:

Such silly praise for Mercedes & BMW low quality products. The parts fail after a few years, the plastics crack and rattles as they deteriorate.  If someone is impressed by low end models that says more about the person than anything else.  Sad to say, but BMW and Mercedes vehicles are not good quality now. The japanese Toyota and Honda autos rule the market because of their reliability.  I want vehicle that does not need to go to shop and run up big bill every few months.

Silly because this thread is features the  obsession of what a parking lot attendant says or does. I don't care what the    parking  guy thinks. There is a reason why he works in parking lot and I can purchase a money without financing, yes? Give the guy 20-100 baht and he will find parking space.  Do the math - buying reliable vehicle that does not need expensive  repair ever few months  vs. paying  parking attendant somtam money is much better value proposition.  This is why some people are wealthy and others are in debt  worrying what others think of car.

I am not sure anyone obsesses over parking lot attendants. It's simply an amusinq quirk. 

But where I am - is where are the other options?

Fast hatchback as a little run around.... It's hard to beat the GLA 250 AMG - most of the other small cars on the market are tiny underpowered Japanese cars. At the time I purchased that a while back, I was on here trying to figure out what was the best hot-hatch was. It was imported Golfs etc. So in my opinion anyone looking for a fun hatchback with a bit of a kick doesn't have many other options. 

The other is an AMG C43 Coupe - at the price/power point I can't see other options. 4 million, 385 hp, loads of fun. But at the tax point it's not onerously expensive. 

As  for your last comment - are you saying that wealthy people don't buy expensive cars? I've not heard that before. It's all poor people trying to show off that have them? That's odd to me. Who else is buying Ferarris other than those that think the car price, depreciation and servicing is insignificant?

Right now, I will be honest that I could not afford a C63 - well I could buy one but it seems like a huge price increase when you factor in the tax bracket. I would not feel good about it.  One day, that price could become insignificant to me and I might spend that much on a car. 

I don't get why people think drivers of these cars are spending at the very limit of their budgets.  How could you know? If they are successful, then you are right that they wouldn't get into a lot of debt for a car. But you know what - sometimes this stuff is a goal you set or a way to reward yourself for your efforts.

You work for your lifestyle to improve. This is one of the ways you reward yourself. 

I don't see many wealthy people driving a Trabant, living in a 3,000 Baht a month apartment and eating beans on toast every day - but maybe I am wrong. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by pedro01

[upu2]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

At this price they make the most profit.

Exactly. Usually called price gouging

[SiSePuede419]

On 3/11/2021 at 6:52 AM, mogandave said:

A mechanic for 50 years? One would think that after twenty he’d a maybe at least made service manager, unless he couldn’t hold down a job?  

FYI, he started out working on cars in his family gas station as a teenager, wrote a book on auto repair, worked on CBS, won an Emmy award and now makes millions on his YouTube channel helping people not get ripped off on German pieces of <deleted>, as well as hundreds of other tips to help people save money on unnecessary maintenance.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hotcars.com/heres-how-scotty-kilmer-amassed-his-10-million-net-worth/amp/

 

You don't know what you're talking about. ????

Edited March 12, 2021 by SiSePuede419