UK Visitor Visa Application Form Question re Sponsorship

[Doowat]

I'm in UK, and planning on bringing my Thai g/f over for a visit this summer. She'll be staying in the house I own, and I'll be sponsoring all her costs. I've been looking over the UK Visas application form for her, and it asks 'what is the cost to you personally of your trip?' It goes on to ask how much money she will have for the trip, the cost of the aeroplane, boat or train, the cost of accommodation, and the cost of living expenses. It then goes on to ask whether someone else is paying for all or part of the trip, together with the amount.

As I will be paying for everything, I assume the cost of the trip to my g/f personally, will be zero, and presumably the reason the question is asked even though she has a sponsor, is to cover the situation where the sponsor is meeting less than the full cost. Does anyone know if my interpretation is correct? Alternatively, I suppose the question could be framed around the situation where the applicant is travelling with someone else, and seeks to exclude the other traveller's costs.

Does anyone know if the question regarding the cost of the plane, boat, or train is in terms of what she will pay herself (again, zero) or more a general question?

I generally support my g/f, although she has a small restaurant business she started up 9 months ago, but which isn't yet making enough for her to live on, and what I don't want to do, is misinterpret the question 'what is the cost to you personally...' and then find she will be expected to show she has her own money to cover it. Similarly the next question is 'the total amount of money you have for this trip?' Do they mean money she has outside of my sponsorship, even though she doesn't need any?

I've also read elsewhere that even with a sponsor, the applicant is expected to demonstrate her own funds available for the trip to cover unforseen events. I guess, I could be run over by a bus while she is here, before I've got 'round to buying her flight back to Thailand, so I can understand this could be an issue, but I also read that it's not advisable for the sponsor to lodge larger sums out of the ordinary, prior to the application. I'm guessing this rules out any applicant who has no independent means at all.

Finally, anyone know how long between the application being lodged and the visa being issued (or rejection letter)?

Any advice or thoughts will be much appreciated

 

[CharlieH]

TheOldgit will be along in due course and can help with sound advice.

 

Jusst bare in mind that one of the main criteria ECO are concerned with is "reason to return" make sure this is evident.

Dont buy a one way ticket.(you mentioned buying the return later)

Dont try to be smart, tell the truth and explain things fully.

Applications in my experience are within 2 weeks of submission (generally).

 

[theoldgit]

When your girlfriend applies for her visa, remember it's her application, you don't just "bring her over", and it's her that needs to satisfy the decision maker that her proposed visit is genuine, affordable and that on the balance of probabilities she will return home at the conclusion of the trip.

If you are paying for her proposed trip then the actual cost to her is zero, she can safely put that and explain in her covering letter that you are sponsoring her travels, hence the nil cost, you will need to prove that it's affordable to you, and in your covering letter explain why it's reasonable for you to do so.

As Charlie H rightly says, one of the most important factors in her application is her "reasons to return", so of course she'll need to prove her strong ties to Thailand, including her finances and accomodation. You mention that she has a restaurant, so she should provide details of that and who will be running the business when she's visiting for a short holiday.

Charlie has picked up on the fact that you propose purchasing a one way ticket, the UKVI strongly advise that non-refundable flight tickets aren't purchased before a visa is issued, though she will need to supply details on how long she intends to stay in the UK for and, should her application succeed, on her arrival at the UK Border the Border Force Officer may well ask for sight of her return ticket, if she doesn't have one she'll need to demonstrate that she has the means to leave the UK as detailed in her application, the Border Force Officer can access her original application.

She should be totally honest in her application, if she has limited funds in Thailand then she should say so.

Good luck

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, theoldgit said:

When your girlfriend applies for her visa, remember it's her application, you don't just "bring her over", and it's her that needs to satisfy the decision maker that her proposed visit is genuine, affordable and that on the balance of probabilities she will return home at the conclusion of the trip.

If you are paying for her proposed trip then the actual cost to her is zero, she can safely put that and explain in her covering letter that you are sponsoring her travels, hence the nil cost, you will need to prove that it's affordable to you, and in your covering letter explain why it's reasonable for you to do so.

As Charlie H rightly says, one of the most important factors in her application is her "reasons to return", so of course she'll need to prove her strong ties to Thailand, including her finances and accomodation. You mention that she has a restaurant, so she should provide details of that and who will be running the business when she's visiting for a short holiday.

Charlie has picked up on the fact that you propose purchasing a one way ticket, the UKVI strongly advise that non-refundable flight tickets aren't purchased before a visa is issued, though she will need to supply details on how long she intends to stay in the UK for and, should her application succeed, on her arrival at the UK Border the Border Force Officer may well ask for sight of her return ticket, if she doesn't have one she'll need to demonstrate that she has the means to leave the UK as detailed in her application, the Border Force Officer can access her original application.

She should be totally honest in her application, if she has limited funds in Thailand then she should say so.

Good luck

 

 

Agree with all that....one slightly strange thing is that the application system does not accept zero ("0") as a value......................... I had to put £1 down for my misssus' application.

[Tigger01]

7 hours ago, theoldgit said:

When your girlfriend applies for her visa, remember it's her application, you don't just "bring her over", and it's her that needs to satisfy the decision maker that her proposed visit is genuine, affordable and that on the balance of probabilities she will return home at the conclusion of the trip.

If you are paying for her proposed trip then the actual cost to her is zero, she can safely put that and explain in her covering letter that you are sponsoring her travels, hence the nil cost, you will need to prove that it's affordable to you, and in your covering letter explain why it's reasonable for you to do so.

As Charlie H rightly says, one of the most important factors in her application is her "reasons to return", so of course she'll need to prove her strong ties to Thailand, including her finances and accomodation. You mention that she has a restaurant, so she should provide details of that and who will be running the business when she's visiting for a short holiday.

Charlie has picked up on the fact that you propose purchasing a one way ticket, the UKVI strongly advise that non-refundable flight tickets aren't purchased before a visa is issued, though she will need to supply details on how long she intends to stay in the UK for and, should her application succeed, on her arrival at the UK Border the Border Force Officer may well ask for sight of her return ticket, if she doesn't have one she'll need to demonstrate that she has the means to leave the UK as detailed in her application, the Border Force Officer can access her original application.

She should be totally honest in her application, if she has limited funds in Thailand then she should say so.

Good luck

This is good advice. I tried bringing my girlfriend over on a one way ticket intending to buy the return in the uk, Thai Air wouldn't let her board the aircraft as she has a 6 month visit visa so I had yo quickly purchase a return ticket on India Air!!! Was running round Suvanabhum airport like a headless chicken as she was then late checking in!!!! 

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, theoldgit said:

She should be totally honest in her application, if she has limited funds in Thailand then she should say so.

Very true - so many people make a mess of it on that one.  If the applicant doesn't have enough money for such a trip but you have given them it and they are paying from their end, say so.  Its not uncommon for 'boyfriends' to send a lump sum over which suddenly appears in the applicants bank account.  That will be picked up and the application will most likely fail.

Its much better to do exactly that and to say so.  For example, my wife came over to the UK last year - although she earns enough herself to get by, she couldn't afford a trip to the UK on her own.  In her application we stated that I also support her (with evidence) and therefore she was able to pay for her air fare out of her account - I sponsored the rest of the trip.

Long story short - don't send a large amount of cash to your girlfriend's account to cover the trip unless you actually state that's what you have done.

[Doowat]

Guys, many thanks for your input on this one, it's really appreciated.

I intend to mention in my offer of sponsorship letter than I send regular money, and I'll include the Transferwise transaction history in my documents. We intend to be fully up front, and the reality is that the restaurant isn't making a lot of profit as yet and it's easier to just close it for the month or so she'll be with me in the UK.

I thought about getting her a return flight, but I assumed this would be difficult in view of the fact that her return home will have to be chanelled through the Thai embassy , and for them to nominate a Thai Airways flight as part of the state quarantine measures. Maybe it's possible to book a London to Bangkok flight that can be cancelled a few days later without any loss of money just prior to when she leaves Bangkok, so that she has something to show UK Border Force on arrival. She could probably show a bank statement for the purpose of of proving she has independent means to return home , but I'm not sure how she'd access the money from the UK - she doesn't have a a mastercard or visa card with her account (surprising, as I have a mastercard with my Bangkok Bank a/c).

As you've all said, she needs to establish a strong draw for her to return home and this is the big worry really. I don't suppose it will be helpful if my sponsor's letter states that I wouldn't wish the UK on my worse enemy let alone my beloved! It's bloody tempting, though. Although the restaurant isn't making much, there's a few thousand pounds worth of equipment involved, plus the deposit on the rental agreement. She has a 10 year old daughter who stays with her parents in the village but my g/f funds her needs. My sponsors letter will state that I intend to return to Thailand full time at the end of the year, after I've decluttered my house, done some repairs etc, ready to rent it out, so hopefully, everything considered will allay any concerns.

Thanks again, everyone.

[bigyin]

All sound advice given already. They don’t really care whether the applicant has any money or not as long as someone can afford to pay. The key issue will be reason to return and the 2 things you mention viz. money tied up in the restaurant (proof?) and more importantly the fact that you are planning to move out to Thailand might just be enough. That is definitely the area you need to fully address as I think the financial side will be fine. Good luck.

[Doowat]

1 minute ago, bigyin said:

All sound advice given already. They don’t really care whether the applicant has any money or not as long as someone can afford to pay. The key issue will be reason to return and the 2 things you mention viz. money tied up in the restaurant (proof?) and more importantly the fact that you are planning to move out to Thailand might just be enough. That is definitely the area you need to fully address as I think the financial side will be fine. Good luck.

Thanks bigyin. I've previously had an O/A visa, which they'll see in my passport, so hopefully that will help to sway them on my future intentions. I'll make sure my g/f reiterates this area in her covering letter as well.

[hotandsticky]

I know a few Thai ladies who's only income is the support money sent over by their BF's/husbands.

 

There is no issue having no income, and zero contribution, if the application is relying on funding from the sponsors. You just need to evidence sufficient coverage for the duration of the stay. This part is easy - either the sponsor has enough money or they don't.

 

Sometimes 'reasons to return' to Thailand is more challenging. Most of the Thai ladies I mentioned own land or a house in the sticks and have strong family ties to that particular area. That enabled them to get a tick in that box.

 

 

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, Doowat said:

Guys, many thanks for your input on this one, it's really appreciated.

I intend to mention in my offer of sponsorship letter than I send regular money, and I'll include the Transferwise transaction history in my documents. We intend to be fully up front, and the reality is that the restaurant isn't making a lot of profit as yet and it's easier to just close it for the month or so she'll be with me in the UK.

I thought about getting her a return flight, but I assumed this would be difficult in view of the fact that her return home will have to be chanelled through the Thai embassy , and for them to nominate a Thai Airways flight as part of the state quarantine measures. Maybe it's possible to book a London to Bangkok flight that can be cancelled a few days later without any loss of money just prior to when she leaves Bangkok, so that she has something to show UK Border Force on arrival. She could probably show a bank statement for the purpose of of proving she has independent means to return home , but I'm not sure how she'd access the money from the UK - she doesn't have a a mastercard or visa card with her account (surprising, as I have a mastercard with my Bangkok Bank a/c).

As you've all said, she needs to establish a strong draw for her to return home and this is the big worry really. I don't suppose it will be helpful if my sponsor's letter states that I wouldn't wish the UK on my worse enemy let alone my beloved! It's bloody tempting, though. Although the restaurant isn't making much, there's a few thousand pounds worth of equipment involved, plus the deposit on the rental agreement. She has a 10 year old daughter who stays with her parents in the village but my g/f funds her needs. My sponsors letter will state that I intend to return to Thailand full time at the end of the year, after I've decluttered my house, done some repairs etc, ready to rent it out, so hopefully, everything considered will allay any concerns.

Thanks again, everyone.

Your interpretation on the questions is about right, i do it every year for my wife. Cost to her is zero and just put a nominal amount in how much she has for the trip. Just enter estimates for costs regarding transport, accommodation and overall costs.

In your supporting letter make it perfectly clear you will meet all costs regarding the trip and I usually supply details of income and bank statements. It is much easier for me as i live in Thailand and as others have said your main issue will be reason to return.

It is a risky process for GFs at the best of times and at the moment even more so. I would suggest waiting and it has been confirmed restrictions in the UK are over before making the application. Good luck.

[theoldgit]

16 hours ago, Doowat said:

I intend to mention in my offer of sponsorship letter than I send regular money, and I'll include the Transferwise transaction history in my documents. Wa e intend to be fully up front, and the reality is that the restaurant isn't making a lot of profit as yet and it's easier to just close it for the month or so she'll be with me in the UK.

Whilst it's not uncommon for people to send their girlfriends cash on a regular basis, and it's certainly not against immigration rules, but there is always a danger when an applicant with no strong ties to Thailand and who relies on support from a benefactor, or benefactors, from overseas for financial support, that the decision maker might assume, rightly or wrongly, that the applicant might just stay with their benefactor and not return home.
I note that many exchange bureaus where I live are currently only open for Western Union payouts from overseas.
You mention the "month or so" your girlfried intends to visit for, she needs to be a bit more concise in her application, just saying a "month or so" might not cut it.

[superal]

6 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Whilst it's not uncommon for people to send their girlfriends cash on a regular basis, and it's certainly not against immigration rules, but there is always a danger when an applicant with no strong ties to Thailand and who relies on support from a benefactor, or benefactors, from overseas for financial support, that the decision maker might assume, rightly or wrongly, that the applicant might just stay with their benefactor and not return home.
I note that many exchange bureaus where I live are currently only open for Western Union payouts from overseas.
You mention the "month or so" your girlfried intends to visit for, she needs to be a bit more concise in her application, just saying a "month or so" might not cut it.

I was reviewing my g/fs UK visa refusal which was based on the fact that we did not state a definite return home date , ( we said something like a month to 6 weeks ) .  she also owns outright a large restaurant ( profitable ) and own house , money in the bank , own new car and supports her parents financially , so good reasons to return home . So just one negative spoiled her application . Good luck with your app and I am wondering if there is an agency that could review applications prior to submissions .  Food for thought theoldgit ?

[theoldgit]

4 hours ago, superal said:

I am wondering if there is an agency that could review applications prior to submissions .  Food for thought theoldgit ?

There are numerous agencies who would, for a price, assist with and maybe even review applications prior to submission, one or two I'd have no hesitation in recommending, others I'd strongly advise to stay well away from, if Thai defamation laws allowed me to do so.

On this forum there are some very experienced members, including retired UKBA staff who have held  various posts within the organisation, along many who will offer anedotal advice based on their own experience.

At the end of the day people have their own reasons and expectations when applying for a visa, and whilst other members of the forum can offer advice, members can't say an application will succeed, only the person sat behind a desk in Croydon, or wherever can decide that.

Nevertheless a good point superal. 

[KhaoYai]

10 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Sometimes 'reasons to return' to Thailand is more challenging. Most of the Thai ladies I mentioned own land or a house in the sticks and have strong family ties to that particular area. That enabled them to get a tick in that box.

Ownership of land or property won't do a bit of good - unless they are part of a stronger tie.  Establishing strong family ties, employment and a settled, stable life in Thailand will.

Edited March 19, 2021 by KhaoYai

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Ownership of land or property won't do a bit of good - unless they are part of a stronger tie.  Establishing strong family ties, employment and a settled, stable life in Thailand will.

Land has always worked for me... employment not a factor.

 

You do understand that my partner's 12m Baht of assets but no income probably trump's your "assets won't do a bit of good" 7/11 employee earning 10k pm.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

Land has always worked for me... employment not a factor.

 

You do understand that my partner's 12m Baht of assets but no income probably trump's your "assets won't do a bit of good" 7/11 employee earning 10k pm.

If someone has 12m baht in assets they would likely not need a sponsor of any kind. They would be better off applying for a visa off their own back.

If someone working at 7/11 wants to go to UK to visit their partner, a job and a letter from the employer to state they must return is valuable to the application.

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Land has always worked for me... employment not a factor.

 

You do understand that my partner's 12m Baht of assets but no income probably trump's your "assets won't do a bit of good" 7/11 employee earning 10k pm.

I don't doubt your partner's applications have been successful and I have no intention of turning this into an argument.  However, ask any ex UKVI member or good agent if ownership of land would help in regard to 'reasons to return'.  I'm pretty sure they will tell you that they look at each applicant's circumstance in their entirety but that in most cases, ownership of land and or property are no afforded much weight. Indeed I've seen people refused that have owned several hundred rai.

The fact that your partner has subsantial assets would be no guarantee that she would leave the UK when her visa expires.  The land does not require her to be there to continue ownership and can easily be sold from abroad.

I suspect that your partner's circumstances as a whole were the reason her applications were successful.

Edited March 19, 2021 by KhaoYai

[Doowat]

On 3/19/2021 at 5:05 AM, superal said:

I was reviewing my g/fs UK visa refusal which was based on the fact that we did not state a definite return home date , ( we said something like a month to 6 weeks ) .  she also owns outright a large restaurant ( profitable ) and own house , money in the bank , own new car and supports her parents financially , so good reasons to return home . So just one negative spoiled her application . Good luck with your app and I am wondering if there is an agency that could review applications prior to submissions .  Food for thought theoldgit ?

Thanks for that good tip - we were intending say 1 month to 6 weeks as well! Seems like they're looking for reasons to say 'no'.

[theoldgit]

8 hours ago, Doowat said:

Thanks for that good tip - we were intending say 1 month to 6 weeks as well! Seems like they're looking for reasons to say 'no'.

i don’t think the UKVI are looking for reasons to refuse applications, in fact most applications are approved, but vague travel plans are certainly subjected to more scrutiny.

[superal]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

i don’t think the UKVI are looking for reasons to refuse applications, in fact most applications are approved, but vague travel plans are certainly subjected to more scrutiny.

Actually according to the UK Home Office ,  in 2019 13% of visa applications were refused but reasons were not given . What gets me is why should a simple visa application for a holiday be under such scrutiny , please view the following link     General grounds for refusal - Gov.uk .  Talk about War & Peace .

 I can understand apps from maybe asylum seekers need to be closely screened but for general holidays is that personal interpretation of doubt without substance really  necessary ? Visas for other  countries seem to be much more straightforward

[soi3eddie]

My opinion and experience: be honest and upfront with your circumstances, prove that she must return at a certain date. Supply supporting documents for her and you. Write a covering letter (no more than one side A4) explaining your situation. Anything that convinces the agent that she must return is essential. Her having no money should not be a problem so long as your circumstances show that funds are available (I send my bank statements and latest Tax return). Proof of relationship (i.e. you didn't just meet her online or one night in a bar on your 2 week holiday) things such as lenghty correspondence such as Line, Messenger, What's App etc. Pictures of you both together. In last 20 years this is what I did and for wife and two subsequent girlfriends. All approved. Last application was 14/03/2020 and was approved 16/06/2020 the delay was due to closure of the UK offices. I understand it's typically within 2 weeks now.

 

I did have one rejection in 2004 for wife's 19yr old niece who wanted to come to UK and was refused for "not owning land, no job, no money and having poor grades at college". Back then it was possible to lodge an appeal - denied. It then went to Immigration Appellate Hearing at Hatton Cross which was only 10 minutes from home so I went. The "judge" had read the case and I stood and explained. He said "he didn't know of any 19yr old land owners". I said that I would ensure niece returns at end of stay, judge asked government lawyer if anything she wanted to say - No. Judge said in that case application "Approved". Niece visited after and then got another visa 2 years later with no hassle.

 

[7by7]

On 3/23/2021 at 3:30 AM, superal said:

Actually according to the UK Home Office ,  in 2019 13% of visa applications were refused but reasons were not given . What gets me is why should a simple visa application for a holiday be under such scrutiny , please view the following link     General grounds for refusal - Gov.uk .  Talk about War & Peace .

 I can understand apps from maybe asylum seekers need to be closely screened but for general holidays is that personal interpretation of doubt without substance really  necessary ? Visas for other  countries seem to be much more straightforward

 

The problem decision makers face is separating the wheat from the chaff. You said yourself that "I can understand apps from maybe asylum seekers need to be closely screened." How does the decision maker know that any particular applicant is such? How do they know that any particular applicant is a genuine visitor and not someone who intends to try and remain in the UK once here? 

 

Only by weighing the evidence in front of them. Remember that it is the applicant's responsibility to provide that evidence. Also remember that the level of proof required is not 'beyond reasonable doubt;' it is the much easier 'on the balance of probabilities.'

 

There is, though, no doubt that applicants in certain countries are subjected to a more rigorous examination. This is because historically a  high percentage of people from those countries have, in one way or another, proven not to be genuine visitors who intend to leave the UK at the end of their visit.

 

Despite starting here and  trying to navigate my way through numerous spread sheets, I cannot find the actual Home Office figures; so have used these from UK visa blog who say their data comes from the official statistics. (I have no connection with this site and am not recommending them nor their services in any way.)

 

You will see that whilst the total, worldwide visit visa refusal rate for 2019 was 12.33%, that for Thailand was much better; 3.67%. To be more positive, Thailand's success rate of 96.33% was the 6th highest out of the top 20 countries for number of applicants.

[superal]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The problem decision makers face is separating the wheat from the chaff. You said yourself that "I can understand apps from maybe asylum seekers need to be closely screened." How does the decision maker know that any particular applicant is such? How do they know that any particular applicant is a genuine visitor and not someone who intends to try and remain in the UK once here? 

 

Only by weighing the evidence in front of them. Remember that it is the applicant's responsibility to provide that evidence. Also remember that the level of proof required is not 'beyond reasonable doubt;' it is the much easier 'on the balance of probabilities.'

 

There is, though, no doubt that applicants in certain countries are subjected to a more rigorous examination. This is because historically a  high percentage of people from those countries have, in one way or another, proven not to be genuine visitors who intend to leave the UK at the end of their visit.

 

Despite starting here and  trying to navigate my way through numerous spread sheets, I cannot find the actual Home Office figures; so have used these from UK visa blog who say their data comes from the official statistics. (I have no connection with this site and am not recommending them nor their services in any way.)

 

You will see that whilst the total, worldwide visit visa refusal rate for 2019 was 12.33%, that for Thailand was much better; 3.67%. To be more positive, Thailand's success rate of 96.33% was the 6th highest out of the top 20 countries for number of applicants.

I will not deviate from the main post where the poster is seeking to get help to avoid any pitfalls in his ladies visa app .  I was merely pointing out that the application needs to be written without any inconsistencies of information that may arouse suspicion  e.g. on my ladies app we said she will stay in the UK for maybe 6 weeks but in another part we said maybe up to 6 months . That was enough reason for the visa refusal and was quoted in the refusal letter .  

I am surprised at the low refusal rate of 3.67% for Thailand and a quick Google search shows that in 2017 the refusal rate for Southeast Asia was 6.81% so all in all an improving picture .  

[7by7]

Y

8 hours ago, superal said:

<snip>

on my ladies app we said she will stay in the UK for maybe 6 weeks but in another part we said maybe up to 6 months . That was enough reason for the visa refusal and was quoted in the refusal letter .

That would certainly, in my opinion, cause the decision maker to doubt the applicant's veracity.

 

Length of intended stay must also be consistent with the applicant's situation in Thailand and reason(s) to return. For example, the decision makers are well aware that most employed Thais get usually no more than 2 weeks holiday per year. So the applicant saying that they have a job to return to after even just a one month visit will raise doubts.

 

These doubts are not, though, insurmountable as long as evidence is provided to counter them.

 

8 hours ago, superal said:

I am surprised at the low refusal rate of 3.67% for Thailand and a quick Google search shows that in 2017 the refusal rate for Southeast Asia was 6.81% so all in all an improving picture . 

The refusal rate for a whole region is no indication of that for one country in that region.

 

I have been involved in visa applications from Thailand via forums such as this for nearly 21 years; firstly seeking advice, subsequently giving it. In all that time I can confidently state that the success rate for visit visa applications from Thailand has consistently been at 95% or above. 

 

I also feel confident in stating that, from my personal experience and that of those I have come across here and elsewhere, that there are four reasons for refusal. In descending order these are:

1. the applicant met the requirements, but failed to show that they did;
2. the applicant for one reason or another did not meet the requirements;
3. inconsistencies in the application threw doubt upon the applicant's or sponsor's veracity.
4. an error of some sort by the decision maker.

So, remember the 5 Ps: proper preparation prevents poor performance!