EU's vaccine failure is because it didn't 'shoot for the stars,' Macron says

[candide]

5 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes fortunately the French foreign minister has absolutely no involvement with UK internal affairs or information within so he can claim all he wants and it sounds to me like the blackmail is being attempted by him.

 

So what if France has a similar number of fully vaccinated people, that irrelevant. The important issue is whats working to stop people dying and getting seriously sick and the evidence to back that up.

 

 

As I wrote before, think extending the gap is a good tactic in order to faster reach a good level of collective immunity.

 

The French foreign minister may be like Joan of Arc and hear voices. Another option is that this argument has been held by the British. I guess we won't get any confirmation soon.

Edited March 27, 2021 by candide

[cocoonclub]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:59 PM, billd766 said:

"The success of the joint procurement". That is the point where I nearly fell out of my chair with laughter.

 

Try as I may I cannot find anything that even looks like "The success of the joint procurement".

I think it was explained several times before:

 

(A) 70-80% of EU citizens live in countries that don’t have the clout of Germany, France or the UK. Without the joint procurement, they would have been worse off.

 

(B) Without the joint procurement, it would have been much more difficult to impose export controls. Imagine Germany, who thanks to its clout would have been able to procure enough jabs, telling the much smaller Netherlands to restrict AZ exporting vaccines so that they fulfill their supply contract with Germany while the Netherlands has been told to wait. 
 

(C) When you go through the whole value chain from supplier, procurement, distribution to end user, the problem is not with the procurement, but with (1) the supplier and (2) the distribution. Countries like Germany have mismanaged this; they are even sitting on tons of jabs that went unused so far. 
 

 

On 3/26/2021 at 1:59 PM, billd766 said:

But that is what the EU commission was designed for. To take over the responsibilities of each member nation. to control aspects of each nation as one and to deal with problems like this should they happen.

That’s the typical Brexiteer nonsense that’s been debunked zillion of times, or to be more precise, that Brexiteers were never able to prove. Fact is, 27 sovereign countries decided they want to purchase something together. No one invaded  France and Germany and forced Macron and Merkel to sign a contract with AZ. 
 

On 3/26/2021 at 1:59 PM, billd766 said:

All for one and one for all.     55555555555555

That’s what I think about the blatant lies of brexiteers. 

[billd766]

1 minute ago, cocoonclub said:

I think it was explained several times before:

 

(A) 70-80% of EU citizens live in countries that don’t have the clout of Germany, France or the UK. Without the joint procurement, they would have been worse off.

 

(B) Without the joint procurement, it would have been much more difficult to impose export controls. Imagine Germany, who thanks to its clout would have been able to procure enough jabs, telling the much smaller Netherlands to restrict AZ exporting vaccines so that they fulfill their supply contract with Germany while the Netherlands has been told to wait. 
 

(C) When you go through the whole value chain from supplier, procurement, distribution to end user, the problem is not with the procurement, but with (1) the supplier and (2) the distribution. Countries like Germany have mismanaged this; they are even sitting on tons of jabs that went unused so far. 
 

 

That’s the typical Brexiteer nonsense that’s been debunked zillion of times, or to be more precise, that Brexiteers were never able to prove. Fact is, 27 sovereign countries decided they want to purchase something together. No one invaded  France and Germany and forced Macron and Merkel to sign a contract with AZ. 
 

That’s what I think about the blatant lies of brexiteers. 

To start with the EU commission decided on the joint procurement and not the 27 nations themselves. The commission botched the job completely, but still give the impression that they know what they are doing, whereas they didn't to start with and still don't.

 

The 27 nations were advised that the commission and only them would be responsible for that and that they would allocate the vaccinations to the various countries. The 27 countries would each be responsible for the distribution within their countries.

 

It seems as though there are many thousands of Astra-Zeneca vaccines sitting around in stockpiles unused, and seemingly unwanted, yet the commission keeps on about more and more supplies.

 

Several EU countries, Germany, France and Italy among them, paused (stopped) using the AZ vaccine because of blood clotting, even though they were told it wasn't a problem by the EU own drug agency.

 

A simple answer is that if you don't want the vaccine, then export it to countries that are in desperate need of it.

 

Huge monopolies like the EU take too long to make decisions and chances just slip by them.

 

The UK went ahead with the AZ vaccine and even pumped 2 billion GBP into the company and got their orders in and supplies first.

 

The EU delayed 3 months and then decided that THEY should get the vaccines first.

 

Join the queue like the rest of the countries have and wait your turn.

 

Alternative make your own vaccines as France and Germany did. Both countries failed with their own vaccines and are now trying to muscle in to the top of the queue.

 

I have every sympathy for the population of the EU but NONE for the Commission or the politicians of the EU.

 

 

[BritManToo]

53 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

That’s what I think about the blatant lies of brexiteers. 

There no brexiteers, Brexit is over.

what we have now is loyal citizens who believe in democracy and the democratic process ...... and dissidents.

 

Also we have the,

Eu vaccinination failure.

Uk vaccination success.

Edited March 28, 2021 by BritManToo

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

There no brexiteers, Brexit is over.

what we have now is loyal citizens who believe in democracy and the democratic process ...... and dissidents.

 

Also we have the,

Eu vaccinination failure.

Uk vaccination success.

That is the problem with quite a few people.

 

They voted to remain in the EU and cannot seem to understand that there was a referendum conducted openly, plus 2 general elections that were also in favour of leaving on Dec 31st 2019. 

 

2020 was the year of treaties and agreements and 2021 is for tidying up.

 

The UK has left the EU and will not return despite all the pleas and protestations from those who wish to remain.

[cocoonclub]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

To start with the EU commission decided on the joint procurement and not the 27 nations themselves.

Utter nonsense. Get your facts right before posting. 
 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

The commission botched the job completely, but still give the impression that they know what they are doing, whereas they didn't to start with and still don't.

Again, utter nonsense. 
 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

The 27 countries would each be responsible for the distribution within their countries.

 

It seems as though there are many thousands of Astra-Zeneca vaccines sitting around in stockpiles unused, and seemingly unwanted, yet the commission keeps on about more and more supplies.

 

Several EU countries, Germany, France and Italy among them, paused (stopped) using the AZ vaccine because of blood clotting, even though they were told it wasn't a problem by the EU own drug agency.

Which is exactly what I wrote above: it’s not a procurement problem. It’s an issue with a supplier, and issue with the distribution of some countries. 
 

 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Huge monopolies like the EU take too long to make decisions and chances just slip by them.

 

The UK went ahead with the AZ vaccine and even pumped 2 billion GBP into the company and got their orders in and supplies first.

 

The EU delayed 3 months and then decided that THEY should get the vaccines first.

Again, utter nonsense. The EU didn’t delay anything, and they are not asking about getting anything first. They’re demanding that their supplier keeps his contractual obligations. They would be “botching the job” if they didn’t. 
 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Join the queue like the rest of the countries have and wait your turn.

What queue exactly did the EU agree to with other countries? I am not aware of such. As far as I know, the only contracts the EU has is with AZ (and other suppliers) and the customers of its procurement program. 
 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Alternative make your own vaccines as France and Germany did. Both countries failed with their own vaccines and are now trying to muscle in to the top of the queue.

Again, utter nonsense. None of these countries made any vaccines (so none of it could fail with one). 
 

 

[cocoonclub]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

There no brexiteers, Brexit is over.

what we have now is loyal citizens who believe in democracy and the democratic process ...... and dissidents.

 

Also we have the,

Eu vaccinination failure.

Uk vaccination success.

A British person who is so obsessed with the EU while lacking even the most basic knowledge about it that he keeps posting nonsense about it, deserves to be called a Brexiteer even after Brexit is done. If you want to call it a “loyal citizen” that’s totally up to you. 
 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by cocoonclub

[candide]

On 3/26/2021 at 7:59 AM, billd766 said:

 

quote from your post.

 

"The success of the joint procurement". That is the point where I nearly fell out of my chair with laughter.

 

Try as I may I cannot find anything that even looks like "The success of the joint procurement".

 

But that is what the EU commission was designed for. To take over the responsibilities of each member nation. to control aspects of each nation as one and to deal with problems like this should they happen.

 

Well it did happen and everyone can see the result.

 

All for one and one for all.     55555555555555

 

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

To start with the EU commission decided on the joint procurement and not the 27 nations themselves. The commission botched the job completely, but still give the impression that they know what they are doing, whereas they didn't to start with and still don't.

 

The 27 nations were advised that the commission and only them would be responsible for that and that they would allocate the vaccinations to the various countries. The 27 countries would each be responsible for the distribution within their countries.

 

It seems as though there are many thousands of Astra-Zeneca vaccines sitting around in stockpiles unused, and seemingly unwanted, yet the commission keeps on about more and more supplies.

 

Several EU countries, Germany, France and Italy among them, paused (stopped) using the AZ vaccine because of blood clotting, even though they were told it wasn't a problem by the EU own drug agency.

 

A simple answer is that if you don't want the vaccine, then export it to countries that are in desperate need of it.

 

Huge monopolies like the EU take too long to make decisions and chances just slip by them.

 

The UK went ahead with the AZ vaccine and even pumped 2 billion GBP into the company and got their orders in and supplies first.

 

The EU delayed 3 months and then decided that THEY should get the vaccines first.

 

Join the queue like the rest of the countries have and wait your turn.

 

Alternative make your own vaccines as France and Germany did. Both countries failed with their own vaccines and are now trying to muscle in to the top of the queue.

 

I have every sympathy for the population of the EU but NONE for the Commission or the politicians of the EU.

 

 

Sorry, but you are posting nonsense about the EU.

 

(1) Your first claim: "But that is what the EU commission was designed for. To take over the responsibilities of each member nation. to control aspects of each nation as one and to deal with problems like this should they happen."

 

It is inaccurate. The EC has only the power to enforce the treaties and regulation (I.e. Directives) derived from the treaties. It has no enforcement power outside that scope. Subject such as Health or Defence are not part of its scope of enforcement because It's not given any power to do so by the treaties. It can only act on demand from member States.

 

(2) Your second claim is also imaginary. "To start with the EU commission decided on the joint procurement and not the 27 nations themselves. The commission botched the job completely, but still give the impression that they know what they are doing, whereas they didn't to start with and still don't."

 

The EC did decide. Initially there has been a discussion at the Council, then an ahreement was signed by 27 countries. There was also an alliance between large/rich countries (France, Germany, NO, and Italy) to join procurements. Then the small EU countries complained, fearing that the big countries would leave them with few supply. Later, the first alliance decided to be integrated in the broader alliance.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by candide

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, cocoonclub said:

A British person who is so obsessed with the EU while lacking even the most basic knowledge about it that he keeps posting nonsense about it, deserves to be called a Brexiteer even after Brexit is done. If you want to call it a “loyal citizen” that’s totally up to you. 

Not sure who you're talking about, I was about to buy a farm house in France before Brexit destroyed my plans. Just because I accept the will of the people, doesn't automatically mean I voted the same as them.

Which is what makes me a (not all that) loyal citizen and you a dissident.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by BritManToo

[cocoonclub]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not sure who you're talking about, I was about to buy a farm house in France before Brexit destroyed my plans. Just because I accept the will of the people, doesn't automatically mean I voted the same as them.

Which is what makes me a (not all that) loyal citizen and you a dissident.

 

 

I thought I made clear who I’m talking about: “A British person who is so obsessed with the EU while lacking even the most basic knowledge about it that he keeps posting nonsense about it.” 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, cocoonclub said:

Utter nonsense. Get your facts right before posting. 
 

Again, utter nonsense. 
 

Which is exactly what I wrote above: it’s not a procurement problem. It’s an issue with a supplier, and issue with the distribution of some countries. 
 

 

Again, utter nonsense. The EU didn’t delay anything, and they are not asking about getting anything first. They’re demanding that their supplier keeps his contractual obligations. They would be “botching the job” if they didn’t. 
 

What queue exactly did the EU agree to with other countries? I am not aware of such. As far as I know, the only contracts the EU has is with AZ (and other suppliers) and the customers of its procurement program. 
 

Again, utter nonsense. None of these countries made any vaccines (so none of it could fail with one). 
 

 

Everything I posted is utter rubbish but in your opinion only.

If you don't agree or like what I post just skip over it. I promise I won't cry or get upset about it.

 

As for me, you are off to my ignore list. Goodbye and have a nice day.