Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[qualtrough]

I am curious as to how many people posting here have started their application or have one pending? If so, give a shout out so we can count.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

3 hours ago, qualtrough said:

I am curious as to how many people posting here have started their application or have one pending? If so, give a shout out so we can count.

I think it has been mentioned several times that the assumed regular backlog for men applicants is about 500-600 people. Assuming 10% had the need to come to this forum (others having a lawyer, no time or perhaps no interest), it brings an approximate number of 60 people. From this group, count 20% still actively posting their status after they've cleared all their original questions and you'll get... 12 people. But that's my guess.

 

BTW I'm in this group - 1.5 year in the process and waiting for my interview at MOI.

[Neeranam]

On 7/20/2018 at 12:11 PM, qualtrough said:

I am curious as to how many people posting here have started their application or have one pending? If so, give a shout out so we can count.

Applied December, 2017. NIA interview January, 2018.

Awaiting MOI interview.

Was told it was sent to MOI in March, but nothing in writing, just on the phone.

[Neeranam]

On 7/20/2018 at 4:09 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

BTW I'm in this group - 1.5 year in the process and waiting for my interview at MOI.

How long since your NIA interview?

Have you received a letter saying the MOI now has your application, if so when did you get it?

Thanks.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How long since your NIA interview?

Have you received a letter saying the MOI now has your application, if so when did you get it?

Thanks.

9 months since NIA. Application also sent to MOI in March. No letter received so far.

[yankee99]

21 hours ago, Neeranam said:

How long since your NIA interview?

Have you received a letter saying the MOI now has your application, if so when did you get it?

Thanks.

 

21 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

9 months since NIA. Application also sent to MOI in March. No letter received so far.

From what i have seen there is no individual letter. There is a cover letter to the moi with a attachment of names and nationalities. 

[Arkady]

On 7/22/2018 at 1:50 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

9 months since NIA. Application also sent to MOI in March. No letter received so far.

 

As Yankee99 points out SB seems to be batching up the applications now and sending them to the MoI with a brief group covering letter, rather than a detailed covering letter for each application, as in the past.  Whatever the format, you need to try to get a copy of the covering letter from SB.  My experience in following up my application with the MoI was that they always asked for the date of the covering letter as a reference and wanted to see the copy when I went there in person. Things seem to be running a lot more smoothly under the current government, so hopefully you will never need to follow up with the MoI.  However, things could revert back again and it is best to be prepared anyway.

[qualtrough]

On 7/23/2018 at 4:24 PM, Arkady said:

 

As Yankee99 points out SB seems to be batching up the applications now and sending them to the MoI with a brief group covering letter, rather than a detailed covering letter for each application, as in the past.  Whatever the format, you need to try to get a copy of the covering letter from SB.  My experience in following up my application with the MoI was that they always asked for the date of the covering letter as a reference and wanted to see the copy when I went there in person. Things seem to be running a lot more smoothly under the current government, so hopefully you will never need to follow up with the MoI.  However, things could revert back again and it is best to be prepared anyway.

It's been just 3 weeks since my NIA interview, but I am wondering if you or anyone else can provide advice on follow-up, such as how long I should wait before contacting my NIA guy,  what to specifically ask, etc. I don't want to annoy him, but on the other hand I want to be sure there are any problems or my file hasn't been misplaced, that kind of thing. If anyone has advice on how their interim NIA-MOI period experience went I would appreciate it.

 

One more thing: what is the cover letter known as in written Thai?

Edited July 25, 2018 by qualtrough

[Arkady]

15 minutes ago, qualtrough said:

It's been just 3 weeks since my NIA interview, but I am wondering if you or anyone else can provide advice on follow-up, such as how long I should wait before contacting my NIA guy,  what to specifically ask, etc. I don't want to annoy him, but on the other hand I want to be sure there are any problems or my file hasn't been misplaced, that kind of thing. If anyone has advice on how their interim NIA-MOI period experience went I would appreciate it.

 

One more thing: what is the cover letter known as in written Thai?

No need to contact the NIA after they have interviewed you. Just follow up with SB. It's likely to take 1-3 months before they forward your file to the MoI, depending on how quickly the other agencies reply.  Nowadays they seem to be batching up applicants to forward to the MoI which might make it take more time. I think I followed up three months after the NIA interview, only to find that they had forwarded my file one month after the interview but kept quiet about it.  I would suggest that following up with SB 3-4 months after the NIA interview would be appropriate but I don't think they mind people following up.  Remember there are a lot of Chinese and Indian applicants that use agents who are usually very aggressive Thai Chinese or Thai Indian types that you will come across in the SB office, if you go there often enought.  So SB must get badgered by them  all the time.  A polite farang on the phone or on LINE is unlikely to bother them. 

 

Maybe someone else can chip in the precise term for a covering letter.  I just asked if the file had been forwarded to the MoI and the officer responded with a copy of the letter.

 

 

[qualtrough]

31 minutes ago, Arkady said:

No need to contact the NIA after they have interviewed you. Just follow up with SB. It's likely to take 1-3 months before they forward your file to the MoI, depending on how quickly the other agencies reply.  Nowadays they seem to be batching up applicants to forward to the MoI which might make it take more time. I think I followed up three months after the NIA interview, only to find that they had forwarded my file one month after the interview but kept quiet about it.  I would suggest that following up with SB 3-4 months after the NIA interview would be appropriate but I don't think they mind people following up.  Remember there are a lot of Chinese and Indian applicants that use agents who are usually very aggressive Thai Chinese or Thai Indian types that you will come across in the SB office, if you go there often enought.  So SB must get badgered by them  all the time.  A polite farang on the phone or on LINE is unlikely to bother them. 

 

Maybe someone else can chip in the precise term for a covering letter.  I just asked if the file had been forwarded to the MoI and the officer responded with a copy of the letter.

 

 

Thank you very much. Speaking of Indian and Chinese applicants, when various authorities at the NIA and SB were asking about our marriage they sort of apologized for some of the intrusive questions, explaining that there had been a lot of fake marriage cases involving nationals from those two countries. They also didn't have nice things to say about agents.

Edited July 25, 2018 by qualtrough

[GabbaGabbaHey]

On 7/23/2018 at 11:18 AM, yankee99 said:

From what i have seen there is no individual letter. There is a cover letter to the moi with a attachment of names and nationalities. 

If, by any chance, anyone got a copy of the cover letter sent to MOI in March this year (I'm supposedly in it) fell free to PM me.

[khongaeng]

On 7/22/2018 at 2:36 PM, Neeranam said:

How long since your NIA interview?

Have you received a letter saying the MOI now has your application, if so when did you get it?

Thanks.

Just for an indication of the variance in the process, I signed my application with fingerprinting over 14 months ago,  NIA Interview over 10 months ago, Application sent to MOI (no letter) approximately 4 months ago.  No call yet from MOI.  

 

If anyone has the submission letter from April - May 2018 timeframe, I would also appreciate it (via PM).  Thanks in advance.

Edited July 26, 2018 by khongaeng

[khongaeng]

15 hours ago, qualtrough said:

It's been just 3 weeks since my NIA interview, but I am wondering if you or anyone else can provide advice on follow-up, such as how long I should wait before contacting my NIA guy,  what to specifically ask, etc. I don't want to annoy him, but on the other hand I want to be sure there are any problems or my file hasn't been misplaced, that kind of thing. If anyone has advice on how their interim NIA-MOI period experience went I would appreciate it.

 

One more thing: what is the cover letter known as in written Thai?

Arkady's advice is spot on.  I called just about every month between NIA interview and MOI submission to find out if anything was missing or anything else was needed.  It did not seem to help or hinder my application in any way.  For me it was 6-7 months between NIA interview and submission to MOI.  Others have reported as little as a 1-2 months.  The reason why is a mystery to me.  I suppose that it is Luck of the draw for when the big important SB guy is in the office for his monthly meeting to review the candidates for submission to MOI.  I had a string a months in-between when my application was ready, but I think there was no meeting.

[Neeranam]

42 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

Just for an indication of the variance in the process, I signed my application with fingerprinting over 14 months ago,  NIA Interview over 10 months ago, Application sent to MOI (no letter) approximately 4 months ago.  No call yet from MOI.  

 

If anyone has the submission letter from April - May 2018 timeframe, I would also appreciate it (via PM).  Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the reply.

 

I submitted 7 months ago, NIA 6 months ago, application sent to MOI 4 months ago. I have a good relationship with my SB officer; if I speak with him soon, I'll ask about such a letter.

 

Also, if anyone already has it, I'd appreciate a copy.

[qualtrough]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks for the reply.

 

I submitted 7 months ago, NIA 6 months ago, application sent to MOI 4 months ago. I have a good relationship with my SB officer; if I speak with him soon, I'll ask about such a letter.

 

Also, if anyone already has it, I'd appreciate a copy.

What is the average time between the MOI getting the letter and setting up an interview? 

[greenchair]

I used to pop out to the moi and say hi every now and then. 

I would just ask them about my case and let them put a face to the pile of documents. They would always tell me what the hold up was. Such as I had an impending court case.

I don't know if it helped but I got the letter for an interview a couple of weeks after my curtasy call. If your thai is not too bad, then pop in for a chat. 

P.S. , don't even think about getting anywhere on the telephone. 

P.S.S dress nicely and be super polite. 

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, greenchair said:

I used to pop out to the moi and say hi every now and then. 

I would just ask them about my case and let them put a face to the pile of documents. They would always tell me what the hold up was. Such as I had an impending court case.

I don't know if it helped but I got the letter for an interview a couple of weeks after my curtasy call. If your thai is not too bad, then pop in for a chat. 

P.S. , don't even think about getting anywhere on the telephone. 

P.S.S dress nicely and be super polite. 

 

Visiting the MoI doesn’t do any harm and is sometimes necessary, if there is an obvious spanner in the works or a lengthy delay. A visit there in which I was lucky enough to get to see the head of the section definitely saved my application, which SB had  incompetently botched, and I was called for interview quickly after the error was corrected. It also made a subsequent visit and my interview easier because I already knew her. Hopefully, it is less necessary to go out there under the current regime, while applications are tending to take around three years, compared to up to a decade or more in the recent past. But putting a face to your file can’t hurt as long as you polite and well dressed like Greenchair.

[greenchair]

9 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

Visiting the MoI doesn’t do any harm and is sometimes necessary, if there is an obvious spanner in the works or a lengthy delay. A visit there in which I was lucky enough to get to see the head of the section definitely saved my application, which SB had  incompetently botched, and I was called for interview quickly after the error was corrected. It also made a subsequent visit and my interview easier because I already knew her. Hopefully, it is less necessary to go out there under the current regime, while applications are tending to take around three years, compared to up to a decade or more in the recent past. But putting a face to your file can’t hurt as long as you polite and well dressed like Greenchair.

What a wonderful post ,though we could have quite well done without the political plug that you slipped in there. 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

What a wonderful post ,though we could have quite well done without the political plug that you slipped in there. 

I can't see any plug, whatsoever.

 

[Neeranam]

22 hours ago, qualtrough said:

What is the average time between the MOI getting the letter and setting up an interview? 

I was told that it could be over 1 year, but my officer does the typically Thai thing of giving worst case scenarios, so as he looks good when there is a better result. I am hopng it is done within 10 months.

[Arkady]

An office topic post and response were deleted.

[qualtrough]

On 7/27/2018 at 9:34 AM, Neeranam said:

I can't see any plug, whatsoever.

Ditto. 

 

[Neeranam]

On 7/27/2018 at 9:39 AM, Neeranam said:

I was told that it could be over 1 year, but my officer does the typically Thai thing of giving worst case scenarios, so as he looks good when there is a better result. I am hopng it is done within 10 months.

Does anyone know if there is a MOI interview day every month, or every three months, and how many applicants are seen in one day.

I heard it was about 50, is this right?

 I was also told that there was a backlog of 300, so trying too estimate a time, as it's important for my career.

[THAIJAMES]

Have only the highest respect for Arkady.  I think he was only saying that in regards to citizenship issues, the current government has generally been more efficient and faster than previous governments.  Anybody that follows Thai citizenship issues would agree.

 

To infer that he would take political sides or that he sees issues in black and white disrespects the tremendous amount of help and insight that he has provided on this thread.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Does anyone know if there is a MOI interview day every month, or every three months, and how many applicants are seen in one day.

I heard it was about 50, is this right?

 I was also told that there was a backlog of 300, so trying too estimate a time, as it's important for my career.

 

AFAIK they aim to hold them monthly but getting all 15 committee members from various departments (7 I think being from parts of the MoI), as prescribed in the Nationality Act is not feasible on a monthly basis.  I would guess they hold interviews 10 times in a good year and less in bad years.  Under the previous political governments they got rather slack at holding them and I think it drifted to around every other month but Gen Anuphong lit a fire under them and told them to set timelines which has speeded things up.   I am not sure how applicants they are including at present.  They tend to vary the format.  Some years ago they tried interviewing several applicants simultaneously at different tables but that presumably didn't work out.  At one point they decided to interview only in the mornings but I think they interviewing all day now. 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, THAIJAMES said:

Have only the highest respect for Arkady.  I think he was only saying that in regards to citizenship issues, the current government has generally been more efficient and faster than previous governments.  Anybody that follows Thai citizenship issues would agree.

 

To infer that he would take political sides or that he sees issues in black and white disrespects the tremendous amount of help and insight that he has provided on this thread.

 

You are right.  I only point out political changes in so far as they affect the citizenship process.  The political shift following the 2014 coup is fact and is actually documented.  A notice was posted by the interior ministry a few months after the coup saying that citizenship had been approved for 365 people (all wives), many of whom, said the announcement, had been waiting as long as 7 years and the ministry wanted to give them certainty about their status and conclude the process for them.  The announcement published the names informally by after the minister had signed but they had not yet been gazetted (no need for royal approval or the oath for wives) with a warning that they should not pay money to anyone who claimed to be able to expedite the process (obviously knowing that many dishonest lawyers and brokers are tipped off by officials before the RG announcement and claim to their clients there is suddenly a chance to get the minister to sign a batch if they pay B200k, which they share with the corrupt official that tipped them off.  This was a quite extraordinary change in the process and clearly indicated that a new broom was in charge and that things were going to be faster and more transparent (good guys in bad guys out).  MoI staff confirmed at the time that the minister had ordered them to speed things up and try to adhere to a specific timeline, rather than just hiding behind the "minister's discretion" and blaming him, as in the past (often with some justification).   At the same time as approving the wives, the minister signed off on the backlog of male applicants but there was no announcement because they had to be forwarded to the Palace at that stage.  He signed off on a batch of applicants who had already received royal approval and made the oath but were in limbo in months because no one would sign for them to go into the RG during the political turmoil.  One of those was myself. 

 

I have not commented that coups are a good thing or given an overall view of the current government but it has certainly been good for citizenship (and PR) applications.  This can't go on for ever.  So hurry while stocks last! 

[THAIJAMES]

18 minutes ago, Arkady said:

  This can't go on for ever.  So hurry while stocks last! 

Unfortunately as a PR holder with 2 more years to go, before I can apply for citizenship, the same thing will probably happen that happened after my PR application.... change of governments and 8 years of waiting until PR was approved.

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

AFAIK they aim to hold them monthly but getting all 15 committee members from various departments (7 I think being from parts of the MoI), as prescribed in the Nationality Act is not feasible on a monthly basis.  I would guess they hold interviews 10 times in a good year and less in bad years.  Under the previous political governments they got rather slack at holding them and I think it drifted to around every other month but Gen Anuphong lit a fire under them and told them to set timelines which has speeded things up.   I am not sure how applicants they are including at present.  They tend to vary the format.  Some years ago they tried interviewing several applicants simultaneously at different tables but that presumably didn't work out.  At one point they decided to interview only in the mornings but I think they interviewing all day now. 

Thanks a lot. So, according to the information I heard, I'm looking at around a 6 month wait, if they interview 30+ in one month.

[qualtrough]

It seems pretty universally recognized here that the current government has acted to speed up and improve the process, but does anyone know why? I can't think of any domestic pressure to do so. Is there some international influence, perhaps treaty obligations and that sort of thing? Theories?

[Arkady]

15 hours ago, qualtrough said:

It seems pretty universally recognized here that the current government has acted to speed up and improve the process, but does anyone know why? I can't think of any domestic pressure to do so. Is there some international influence, perhaps treaty obligations and that sort of thing? Theories?

 

Nothing to do with treaty obligations.  The only treaty that could possibly apply re citizenship is the Convention against Stateless to which Thailand is a signatory and flagrantly violates on a regular basis. There is little sign that this government cares any more about the hundreds of stateless minorities born on Thai soil than any of its predecessors, viz the revelations of the stateless cave boys and coach who are to all intents and purposes as Thai as the next man but denied the same rights and privileges as their neighbours for no good reasons and no benefit to the nation.

 

I think it was genuinely a part of their bad guys out, good guys in policy, since they have applied the same philosophy to PR applications, as well as had regular crack downs on overstayers, albeit focused on black ones, and started enforcing existing laws on overstays more seriously.  In addition I believe that Gen Anuphong was genuinely repulsed by the corruption, sloth and general condescending attitude he found at the Interior Ministry, some of it related to previous politico ministers but much of it to do with the institution itself.  He initiated an immediate reshuffle of top mandarins there and put his own people at the top. The military views the Interior Ministry as a key ministry from the point of view of national security and also that vetting people for PR and citizenship as a national security role.  So I believe that Anuphong saw these processes involving foreigners as just one of the many issues related to national security that previous governments had allowed to get mired in corruption and sloth, thus endangering the nation state.  Just my take but I believe the military mindset is something like this, even though corruption and sloth cannot be said to be totally absent from the military itself. After the 2006 coup something similar happened but on a more limited scale as the coup appointed government only stayed in power for a year and comprised many indolent retired bureaucrats rather than military men.  Even so, it should be noted that Gen Sarayud as prime minister chose to take the Interior portfolio himself and did, in fact, approve a significant number of backlogged citizenship applicants, although nothing much was done for PR applications, the process for which was totally disrupted by the Thaksin government and only just back to normal under the current government, meaning approvals within 12 months.