Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[greenchair]

2 minutes ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

I keep a photograph of the document signed by the King in my phone for exactly such an encounter. I imagine it would shut them up fast, but I’ve never had to use it (yet).


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Is yours signed by the king. 

I don't think mine is 

[thunder18]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

Why don't you have a blue book? It is the book that you used to get your yellow book. 

The owner of the house (thai lady) has her blue book. I never have blue for myself, just yellow one.

Ohh, you meant bring HER blue book (house owner's book) to the amphur, together with my yellow one? Ok then, not a problem.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Is yours signed by the king. 
I don't think mine is 

Yes, it is.


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[Big Guns]

The requirements differ from council to council with the requirements for the ID card. I didn't need to have my passport translated. However, they asked for photocopies of my passport, work permit, wedding certificate and other annoying things I can't remember. Their rule seems to be there are no official rules so we'll ask for all the stuff we asked for last time again 

[NewlyMintedThai]

The owner of the house (thai lady) has her blue book. I never have blue for myself, just yellow one.
Ohh, you meant bring HER blue book (house owner's book) to the amphur, together with my yellow one? Ok then, not a problem.

Yes. There is only one blue book per domicile.


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[greenchair]

Just now, thunder18 said:

The owner of the house (thai lady) has her blue book. I never have blue for myself, just yellow one.

Ohh, you meant bring HER blue book (house owner's book) to the amphur, together with my yellow one? Ok then, not a problem.

?????

[Arkady]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

Is yours signed by the king. 

I don't think mine is 

There is no requirement for Royal approval in the case of foreign wives adopting husband's Thai nationality.  You didn't have to make an oath of allegiance either.

[greenchair]

2 minutes ago, Arkady said:

There is no requirement for Royal approval in the case of foreign wives adopting husband's Thai nationality.  You didn't have to make an oath of allegiance either.

Who cares? I just wanted the Thai id. I'm divorced now. 

??

[Arkady]

2 minutes ago, Big Guns said:

The requirements differ from council to council with the requirements for the ID card. I didn't need to have my passport translated. However, they asked for photocopies of my passport, work permit, wedding certificate and other annoying things I can't remember. Their rule seems to be there are no official rules so we'll ask for all the stuff we asked for last time again 

 

I was also not asked for a translation of my passport.  Just the usual copies of everything certified by myself. One set for tabien baan section and another set for ID section on the other side of the glass partition, since they were unable to share anything.  They also conducted virtually the same interviews on both sides of the partition.  Tedious but there was a pot of gold waiting at the end of it.

[thunder18]

21 minutes ago, Arkady said:

In fact you are legally Thai according to the Nationality Act the moment your name is published in the RG

Technically you are Thai once the King approved and signed the application. There will be no one who may overlap this decision later on [except the King himself], so this is the ridge of the process.

RG is just to announce this fact to public. A formality.

[greenchair]

8 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

I was also not asked for a translation of my passport.  Just the usual copies of everything certified by myself. One set for tabien baan section and another set for ID section on the other side of the glass partition, since they were unable to share anything.  They also conducted virtually the same interviews on both sides of the partition.  Tedious but there was a pot of gold waiting at the end of it.

Your citizenship was done a long time ago. Mine was done recently. 

If it was just up to the umpur then why is the mfa involved. I think it is standard policy now. 

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

 

In fact you are legally Thai according to the Nationality Act the moment your name is published in the RG, although no one will believe you without an ID card and tabien baan showing Thai nationality.

 

In fact many Thais refuse to believe you are Thai even with an ID card, tabien and naturalisation certificate. I can't remember how many times I have received ignorant comments like, yes, but what is your nationality?  Many seem to think my ID card is the same as a pink ID card. But to hell with them.

Fortunately, I have not encountered this. In fact a number of people told me that they thought I was Thai long before I got my ID card, and were surprised when I said I wasn't. They simply assumed that because I had been here so long and spoke the language  that I must have got citizenship. 

[MrPatrickThai]

10 hours ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

They just want to know your “chuachart” vs your “sanchart”. Go easy on them.


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Rather racist to ask that, IMHO. "chuachat" My answer would be "khon piew khao" is it not obvious.

 

Like asking a black American, or British Sikh what his origin is.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Unless you speak Thai perfectly with no accent, it’s obviously you’ve come from somewhere else — even if you have a Thai ID card. It’s an innocent enough question to ask from where.


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[Arkady]

26 minutes ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

Unless you speak Thai perfectly with no accent, it’s obviously you’ve come from somewhere else — even if you have a Thai ID card. It’s an innocent enough question to ask from where.
 

I don't mind people asking where I am from originally at all but I object to the attitude which I encounter occasionally that I am not really Thai.  I sometimes explain I am a Thai-Farang just like there are Thai-Chinese, Thai-Indians, Thai-Lao, Thai-Khmer, Thai-Mon, Thai-Malay etc. Often the person is from one of the above ethnic groups and it helps them get the message. 

[greenchair]

People need to understand that, even though we have thai citizenship. essentially we Continue to be guests in this country and our citizenship can be revoked at anytime . We are never really thai citizens in the true sense of the word ,in time of war or if behaving immorally we would be returned to the place of our birth. This is regardless of if you have "renounced " your original citizenship. You or I will never be considered true thai, because in fact we are not. We continue to be guests in a foreign country albeit with a few privileges enjoyed by birth citizens. I always remember that .

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, greenchair said:

People need to understand that, even though we have thai citizenship. essentially we Continue to be guests in this country and our citizenship can be revoked at anytime . We are never really thai citizens in the true sense of the word ,in time of war or if behaving immorally we would be returned to the place of our birth. This is regardless of if you have "renounced " your original citizenship. You or I will never be considered true thai, because in fact we are not. We continue to be guests in a foreign country albeit with a few privileges enjoyed by birth citizens. I always remember that .

 

And Thailand is not a rigorous adherent to the UN Convention Against Statelessness, despite being a signatory.  That means the Interior Ministry can and does just follow its own regulations and revoke citizenship of someone who is thereby left stateless, even though this is in violation of its international treaty obligations which have a higher standing in Thai law than statutory law.  This could be an issue for someone whose nationality is revoked for something other than things in the taking an interest in former nationality class.  An example would be an offence against public morals which according to the Nationality Act is up to the minister's discretion to determine without regard to potential statelessness.  This is mainly likely to affect minorities who get Thai nationality but one should give careful thought to this before renouncing original nationality. In practical terms it may be difficult to deport someone who has just been rendered stateless.  However, I believe this has been done to minorities who simply return to the limbo of being stateless in Thailand, whence they came.  

 

At least Thais who are Thai from birth are safe from the minister's discretion in terms of revocation of Thai nationality.  This is increasingly not the case in farang countries which have been one by one amending laws to allow revocation of nationality from those who have nationality from birth.  The UK did it a few years ago and I believe Australia and Canada have followed suit. These countries do follow the UN convention and can't leave a former citizen stateless.  However, there is a let out clause so that they only need reason to believe that the person is eligible for another nationality and, if that country agrees to take them off the plane, they're gone, regardless of whether they get nationality there or not.          

[carthaivisa]

Hi..anybody knows when any foreigner get the Thai ID and he is working in Thailand and he is filling his income and paying taxes on his tax ID no. through his employer so does he continue using the same tax id no. that he was using before he was granted Thai nationality as I noticed that Thais are using their Thai ID no. instead of a tax id no. to fill their income and taxes..Thanks for any help to understand this issue

[skyaslimit]

Hi..anybody knows when any foreigner get the Thai ID and he is working in Thailand and he is filling his income and paying taxes on his tax ID no. through his employer so does he continue using the same tax id no. that he was using before he was granted Thai nationality as I noticed that Thais are using their Thai ID no. instead of a tax id no. to fill their income and taxes..Thanks for any help to understand this issue

 

I did change my tax ID number after receiving PR, so now it matches with my Thai 13 digit ID number assigned in my blue thabian baan, starting with 8, you can do it any revenue office.

 

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[GarryP]

11 minutes ago, skyaslimit said:

 

I did change my tax ID number after receiving PR, so now it matches with my Thai 13 digit ID number assigned in my blue thabian baan, starting with 8, you can do it any revenue office.

 

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I visited the local Revenue Office to change my tax ID number to correspond with my ID Card, but after the officers put their heads together to discuss it and consulted with the chief, the answer was that it is not possible to do so and that I should continue using my then current tax ID number. I knew this was rubbish so when I had to submit my next tax return, I simply used my ID Card number to re-register online and submitted using that (e-filing). No problem at all for the past couple of years or so and I still got my tax refunds without any trouble. 

 

My employer started using my ID Card number as soon as I received it. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

I visited the local Revenue Office to change my tax ID number to correspond with my ID Card, but after the officers put their heads together to discuss it and consulted with the chief, the answer was that it is not possible to do so and that I should continue using my then current tax ID number. I knew this was rubbish so when I had to submit my next tax return, I simply used my ID Card number to re-register online and submitted using that (e-filing). No problem at all for the past couple of years or so and I still got my tax refunds without any trouble. 

 

My employer started using my ID Card number as soon as I received it. 

If I understand well, people who have the 8 number after PR will keep the same number after being naturalized?

 

I was less lucky than you after I registered my PR 8xxx ID in the tax revenue system, I was no longer able to submit it online through e-revenue, maybe that's why they told you not to do that. They looked at my case and were not able to solve my problem, even when I went to the head office. Which means I'm back to manual for 4 years already. But haven't double-checked since then.

[carthaivisa]

Thanks guys for your answers ..I have PR since three years but I didn't change Tax ID to be ID no. same as mentioned in the blue thabian baan as I didn't know so now I'm not sure if it is better change now or to wait till I get Thai ID..I'm confused now..and what about social security ...I'm afraid to have the same problem as GabbaGabbaHey that I cannot submit my tax return online any more if I changed Tax ID no. ..what is best thing to do?

Edited November 17, 2017 by carthaivisa

[skyaslimit]

Thanks guys for your answers ..I have PR since three years but I didn't change Tax ID to be ID no. as the blue thabian baan as I didn't know so now I'm not sure if it is better change now or to wait till I get Thai ID..I'm confused now..and what about social security ...I'm afraid to have the same problem as GabbaGabbaHey that I cannot submit my tax return online any more if I changed Tax ID no. ..what is best thing to do?

I don't know what will be better, but as I am preparing myself to apply for citizenship, I thought all the related documents should start with my already assigned ID number, specially my tax returns.

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[GarryP]

I did not have PR so my case is different. 

[aidenai]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

I visited the local Revenue Office to change my tax ID number to correspond with my ID Card, but after the officers put their heads together to discuss it and consulted with the chief, the answer was that it is not possible to do so and that I should continue using my then current tax ID number.

Same here but when I had to submit some extra documents to the regional revenue department, they took a copy of my Thai ID and recorded its data in their system. My employer is still using the old tax ID number though. 

 

However, my employer did take care that my SSO number became changed. My SSO number is now the same as my Thai ID number.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Out of curiosity, do PR holders keep their 8xxx ID number after getting naturalized?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Yes


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[Arkady]

I started using my ID number with 8- prefix as a PR for tax when I was working for my own company and applied for online filing with that number without problems.  Then I was offered a job with a large company and did that for a few years.  I gave the HR department copies of all my documents and showed them my 8- tax number.  They decided to ignore all of that and applied for a foreigner's  tax ID number for me without telling me.  So for several years they paid my employee tax deductions under the temporary foreigner tax number and I continued filing my tax returns under my correct ID number. Never caused a hiccup. 

[Arkady]

On 11/16/2017 at 1:11 PM, thunder18 said:

Technically you are Thai once the King approved and signed the application. There will be no one who may overlap this decision later on [except the King himself], so this is the ridge of the process.

RG is just to announce this fact to public. A formality.

 

Section 5 of the Nationality Act says that the acquisition of Thai nationality under Sections 9, 12 or 12/1 shall be effective on publication in the Royal Gazette.   It is more than just a formality.  It is the moment that you become legally Thai.

 

The process is actually irrevocable once the minister has signed, as long as the applicant follows up with the oath and other remaining requirements. Incoming ministers will not interfere with applications signed by their predecessors and there are no legal grounds for them to do so, unless the application is found to be fraudulent.  What you say is no doubt true but the question never arises.  You also need to bear in mind that nearly half the applications for Thai nationality don't require the Royal countersignature anyway because they are wives of Thai citizens. 

[carthaivisa]

50 minutes ago, Arkady said:

I started using my ID number with 8- prefix as a PR for tax when I was working for my own company and applied for online filing with that number without problems.  Then I was offered a job with a large company and did that for a few years.  I gave the HR department copies of all my documents and showed them my 8- tax number.  They decided to ignore all of that and applied for a foreigner's  tax ID number for me without telling me.  So for several years they paid my employee tax deductions under the temporary foreigner tax number and I continued filing my tax returns under my correct ID number. Never caused a hiccup. 

Thanks Arkady..what about social security no..did you change it too same as ID no. mentioned in Blue Tabian Baan as PR holder before getting Thai nationality...or should be changed only after getting Thai nationality (Thai ID)