7 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

On 5/15/2021 at 2:58 PM, Moonlover said:

What a load of fuss over a vaccine that has been administered to least 160 million people, worldwide without any serious consequences.

 

7 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

Here is why you are so completely wrong: People who need to travel to Europe, USA or any other countries that will sooner or later require a vaccine passport want to get a vaccine that is ACCEPTED in those countries.

The Chinese Sinovac vaccine is NOT approved for use in any country I want/need to travel to.

 

I want to get vaccinated with something that is useful for my plans and not something, that is forced down the throats of 160 million people who have no choice, because their government is paid off by the Chinese communist party to deliver their citizens as testing rats...

The latest figures I found are: 25 countries have approved Sinovac so far, none of which is in Europe. Not even the WHO has approved Sinovac, they are still "in the process"... what does this tell you about this vaccine?

Your personal issue has nothing whatsoever to do with topic in hand, which is the legality of insisting upon employees accept a vaccine offered by the company.

 

If you you feel that Sinovac doesn't suit you then you're free to seek an alterative. Personally though, I think your fears are unfounded and Sinovac will soon join the list of WHO approved vaccines.

 

WHO Inches Closer to Approval of Chinese vaccine

12 hours ago, robblok said:

Thing is the studies on the Russian and Chinese vaccine are not on the same level as European and US vaccines. So i don't trust them. (fact that the studies are not on the same level)

point taken, 

and media are not helping creating informed opinion. Having said that, VOX News ( ???? ) did an interesting article : 

“”

 

That gap in efficacy numbers is fueling some people’s perception that the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine isn’t as good. However, scientists say that these numbers can’t be fairly compared to one another. The efficacy levels of the Covid-19 vaccines are specific to the clinical trials that produced them, and those trials were not conducted in the same ways. 

In addition, health officials have been emphasizing that the most important numbers — how well the vaccines prevent hospitalizations and deaths — are consistent across the board and are arguably more comparable. Even after these vaccines have begun distribution, researchers are finding that Covid-19 vaccines are doing a remarkable job of keeping people alive. 

That’s why the recommendation remains that the best Covid-19 vaccine for the vast majority of people is the first one they can get. “That’s how I think of these vaccines, as basically interchangeable,” said Adalja

“”

 

as for an explanation why the efficacies are not comparable the video  offers good information :  

https://www.vox.com/22311625/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-johnson-moderna-pfizer

 

 

Edited May 17, 20215 yr by KKr

2 minutes ago, KKr said:

point taken, 

and media are not helping creating informed opinion. Having said that, VOX News ( ???? ) did an interesting article : 

“”

 

That gap in efficacy numbers is fueling some people’s perception that the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine isn’t as good. However, scientists say that these numbers can’t be fairly compared to one another. The efficacy levels of the Covid-19 vaccines are specific to the clinical trials that produced them, and those trials were not conducted in the same ways. 

In addition, health officials have been emphasizing that the most important numbers — how well the vaccines prevent hospitalizations and deaths — are consistent across the board and are arguably more comparable. Even after these vaccines have begun distribution, researchers are finding that Covid-19 vaccines are doing a remarkable job of keeping people alive. 

That’s why the recommendation remains that the best Covid-19 vaccine for the vast majority of people is the first one they can get. “That’s how I think of these vaccines, as basically interchangeable,” said Adalja

“”

 

as for an explanation why the efficacies are not comparable the WHO offers following information 

Basically im saying Sinvac and Sputnik are ok if there is no other option, however if i can choose ill go for the US vaccine. 

 

My point is not an opinion but a fact, Russians and Chinese don't have the same transparency in testing as the European and US vaccine. These are not countries known for their transparency. 

 

So if i were to take a vaccine I would go for the one that is presumably best. If i have no other choice i go for what is available. The Chinese vaccine wont help you if you want to travel to Europe.

 

So its not that im saying they are useless im saying the others give me more options and look better.

 

I am not from the US but Dutch so I don't watch the American news just read what the Dutch news has to say.

 

I must say in the Netherlands they talk a lot more about people who have had covid and had to recover for months 90.000 or so are now going to physio therapy and many are young having lost muscle and endurance and are chronically tired.

 

I wish this part was brought out a bit more because all the Covid is just a flu people are only focusing on death rates. 

 

 

On 5/14/2021 at 3:41 PM, robblok said:

Im really pro vaccination but I would not want the Chinese vaccine plus nobody should be forced to take a vaccine if they don't want to as long as they accept the results. (less travel ect maybe no job). I would take the European or American vaccines. Not Russian or Chinese.

I joined the RAF in Jan 64 and within days we all attended the medical centre several times for a needle in the arm, no choice, no information, not even what it was for.

Where would we be if everyone could walk away from their responsibility. 

I don't even think the op is real, just another thread to stir up the pot and get the dogs howling.

I am sure the supposed employer in the OP will not privately secure vaccine before the private hospitals, so if you dont like the vaccine your employer is offering , go to one of the private hospitals, and pay for the vaccine of your choice.  

I am sure the employer does not care what vaccine you have, as long as you are vaccinated. in fact I am sure that they will be happy not to have to pay for your vaccine. 

 

38 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

Your personal issue has nothing whatsoever to do with topic in hand, which is the legality of insisting upon employees accept a vaccine offered by the company.

 

If you you feel that Sinovac doesn't suit you then you're free to seek an alterative. Personally though, I think your fears are unfounded and Sinovac will soon join the list of WHO approved vaccines.

 

WHO Inches Closer to Approval of Chinese vaccine

1) Your are right, my comment is only indirectly related to the legality question, but important for the decision process about risking the job or not... I think teachers in Thai schools will soon ALL face that dilemma, when the government decides to mandate vaccinations for teachers without offering alternativ vaccines. 
2) WHO approval is irrelevant and - given the reputation of that body - I do not expect any country to say "if WHO approves it, we will do so also"... I need individual countries to accept the vaccines that will be put in my body, not the Chinese-driven WHO

This will be a crucial point of these times: the threat of job and salary for the compulsory vaccine. This unreal situation unfortunately stems from a paranoid and hysterical daily narrative, which has elevated the vaccine to a "matter of life and death", opposing and sometimes censoring all other forms of therapy and treatment.

 

Unfortunately, the atmosphere of fear is leading to unthinkable choices. We are potentially breaking the Nuremberg Code and the silence of the Thais, especially professionals, is really worrying me.

 

I hope people will come to their senses soon.

23 minutes ago, robblok said:

wish this part was brought out a bit more because all the Covid is just a flu people are only focusing on death rates. 

 

indeed, “long covid” is a huge concern, but not sensational enough for the international press.

 

Guess we both will wait for the Janssen vaccination ????

 

you said :

””

My point is not an opinion but a fact, Russians and Chinese don't have the same transparency in testing as the European and US vaccine. These are not countries known for their transparency

“”

absolutely, and are used as influence pawns in political powerplay.

Having said that, since Russians had been working on Ebola and Sars vaccines, it is said they were ahead of the crowd with development. 

However, did not find first hand information about clinical trials.

but, apparently, so far so good. 

22 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I joined the RAF in Jan 64 and within days we all attended the medical centre several times for a needle in the arm, no choice, no information, not even what it was for.

Where would we be if everyone could walk away from their responsibility. 

and so you may have participated in a clinical trial, without knowing, if no side effects, good for you !

 

it is as it is, no need to discuss legalities and freedom issues in such situation at that time.

 

20 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Yeah, but some western politicians and a lot of forum members love to Chinese bash.

 

They choose which vaccine they think is best based on racism rather than actual results.

 

I have noticed the Murdoch press is running anti Chinese stories on a daily basis now. 

Old Rupert is still hurting from his divorce.

 

 

Think you are right, I don't like the Chinese Communist party and their tactics at all but have no objection to their vacin after consulting a couple doctors. They probably made the virus so they are ahead of the rest to fight it. Like I told before Americans and Europeans have very well paid lobbyist to change opinions while the Chinese are working on a solution instead. They spend their money on the research while I'm pretty sure the others spend a lot more on lobbyists.

 

24 minutes ago, KKr said:

and so you may have participated in a clinical trial, without knowing, if no side effects, good for you !

 

it is as it is, no need to discuss legalities and freedom issues in such situation at that time.

 

Same over here, went on a mission to Africa and got another couple of injections. I even volunteer now to take shots and let the doctors check-up and monitor the situation. I"m in a kind of risk group, a donor and give up my body to science if I die after 60, so what?

9 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

The Chinese Sinovac vaccine is NOT approved for use in any country I want/need to travel to.

It is not approved to be used in those countries. There is nothing that I have seen that excludes it from allowing travel as a vaccinated person. 

 

9 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

The latest figures I found are: 25 countries have approved Sinovac so far, none of which is in Europe.

You are wrong Turkey, Albania and Ukraine all in Europe, are using it

 

 

9 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

Not even the WHO has approved Sinovac, they are still "in the process"... what does this tell you about this vaccine?

Nothing. Also Sinovac is the company CoronaVac is the vaccine. 
it’s still going through the appraisal process 

 

“A real-world study of millions of Chileans who received CoronaVac found it 67% effective against symptoms, reduced hospitalizations by 85%, intensive care visits by 89%, and deaths by 80%.^[10] In Indonesia, real world data showed 94% of inoculated health care workers protected against symptomatic infection by the vaccine, beating results in clinical trials.^[11]Phase III results from Brazil had previously showed 50.7% efficacy at preventing symptomatic infections and 83.7% effective in preventing mild cases needing treatment. Efficacy against symptomatic infections increased to 62.3% with an interval of 21 days or more between the doses.^[12] Final Phase III results from Turkey announced on 3 March 2021 showed an efficacy of 84%.^[10]””

 

13 hours ago, robblok said:

Thing is the studies on the Russian and Chinese vaccine are not on the same level as European and US vaccines.

Jingoistic nonsense lies or misinformation 

11 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It is not approved to be used in those countries. There is nothing that I have seen that excludes it from allowing travel as a vaccinated person. 

 

You are wrong Turkey, Albania and Ukraine all in Europe, are using it

 

 

Nothing. Also Sinovac is the company CoronaVac is the vaccine. 
it’s still going through the appraisal process 

 

“A real-world study of millions of Chileans who received CoronaVac found it 67% effective against symptoms, reduced hospitalizations by 85%, intensive care visits by 89%, and deaths by 80%.^[10] In Indonesia, real world data showed 94% of inoculated health care workers protected against symptomatic infection by the vaccine, beating results in clinical trials.^[11]Phase III results from Brazil had previously showed 50.7% efficacy at preventing symptomatic infections and 83.7% effective in preventing mild cases needing treatment. Efficacy against symptomatic infections increased to 62.3% with an interval of 21 days or more between the doses.^[12] Final Phase III results from Turkey announced on 3 March 2021 showed an efficacy of 84%.^[10]””

 

Jingoistic nonsense lies or misinformation 

Disagree, this has been reported in the press and even a blind man (obviously not you) can see that countries like China and Russia are not known for transparency that shows in their studies too. 

 

https://www.universityworldnews.com/post.php?story=20201010151810774

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/brazil-says-china-not-transparent-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use-2020-12-15/

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/trust-and-transparency-matter-more-in-covid-19-vaccine-race

 

Just a few i could go on but the way they did their research is not transparant like the western models. 

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Disagree, this has been reported in the press and even a blind man (obviously not you) can see that countries like China and Russia are not known for transparency that shows in their studies too. 

 

https://www.universityworldnews.com/post.php?story=20201010151810774

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/brazil-says-china-not-transparent-covid-19-vaccine-emergency-use-2020-12-15/

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/trust-and-transparency-matter-more-in-covid-19-vaccine-race

 

Just a few i could go on but the way they did their research is not transparant like the western models. 

 

You forgot to mention a little country just south of the Netherlands. Probably the most corrupted country in Europa especially BXL and the French speaking part. Nothing is transparent overthere. Janssen Pharmaceutical originated in the Flemish speaking part but is now in US hands if I'm not mistaken. 

I am pro vaccination but whatever happened to a persons right to choose?

2 minutes ago, Kenneth White said:

I am pro vaccination but whatever happened to a persons right to choose?

There are quite a few things where you have no right to choose or if you do choose there are consequences that you probably will not like. 
 

you are in a country where there quite a few of your imaginary “rights” are very different or nonexistent. 
 

your belief in rights is interesting and as universal as belief in Santa Claus 

27 minutes ago, Kenneth White said:

I am pro vaccination but whatever happened to a persons right to choose?

 

What about the rights of coworkers who will be at risk working (in person) with unvaccinated colleagues?

1 hour ago, SomchaiCNX said:

You forgot to mention a little country just south of the Netherlands. Probably the most corrupted country in Europa especially BXL and the French speaking part. Nothing is transparent overthere. Janssen Pharmaceutical originated in the Flemish speaking part but is now in US hands if I'm not mistaken. 

Stupidity rules in some posters. Thinking that the Netherlands has a French speaking part. Go back to school your confusing it with Belgium.

 

Also the Janssen and Janssen is a cooperation between US and Nethelrands. But yes lots been done in the Netherlands.

4 hours ago, KKr said:

and so you may have participated in a clinical trial, without knowing, if no side effects, good for you !

 

it is as it is, no need to discuss legalities and freedom issues in such situation at that time.

 

Why on earth would you think it had anything to do with clinical trials, we were deployed all around the globe. It would have been highly irresponsible for those at the top to risk any further spread of the various diseases.

There is always a bigger picture to consider.

Well, what some of 'the people I know' are doing with their companies, including one family company, is that the policy is going to be 'you must be vaccinated' to continue to come into work.   No threat of termination, despite for the most part being 'employment at will' type relationships anyway.   So you'd still be employed, just unable to work and get paid.

 

In short, there's probably no legal recourse... just like you might not be able to complain about a company's office color scheme or dress code.         

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Stupidity rules in some posters. Thinking that the Netherlands has a French speaking part. Go back to school your confusing it with Belgium.

 

Also the Janssen and Janssen is a cooperation between US and Nethelrands. But yes lots been done in the Netherlands.

A country south of the Netherlands. Yes, indeed Belgium.  Looks like reading is not your strongest point.

???? 

13 minutes ago, SomchaiCNX said:

A country south of the Netherlands. Yes, indeed Belgium.  Looks like reading is not your strongest point.

???? 

Yes it seems this way. I was wrong i was under the impression that Jansen and Jansen was Dutch hence my mistake. You were right and I was wrong.

 

I don't know about corruption in Belgium. But yes i made a mistake you were right. 

not possible !

 

On 5/14/2021 at 2:47 PM, herwin1234 said:

why you dont give us the full story? who is the anti vaccin problemmaker, a thai or a foreigner?

 

sounds like a responsible company, i cant imagine a thai worker would be so utterly selfish and irresponsible to rebel against vaccination.

 

anyway, if you dont want vaccination of the company, take resposibility, go find another job at a c0mpany who doesnt care. dont be "that guy".

 

so you think that everybody should vaccine, right ? I am against and will never vaccine even if I have to wear a mask and avoid restaurants until I die !

 

Medicine already exist and is working well, in case you don't know, so why should I vaccine when there are other solutions ? Ridiculous.

 

On 5/16/2021 at 1:46 PM, Deerculler said:

With millions of people having been vaccinated with the Chinese vaccine. We have not heard of millions dying.

So can someone tell me what is everyone concerned about?

 

 

yes for sure, you must be right ! and china only had 5000 covid cases also, right ? we can be sure !

 

 

10 hours ago, robblok said:

My point is not an opinion but a fact, Russians and Chinese don't have the same transparency in testing as the European and US vaccine. These are not countries known for their transparency. 

 

 

nothing else to add ! other people can trust whatever they want, but I usually use my brain !

 

 

5 hours ago, wadman said:

 

What about the rights of coworkers who will be at risk working (in person) with unvaccinated colleagues?

 

 

Sheeps will all be vaccinated, so why someone who doesn't want should also be ?

 

 

3 minutes ago, thailandusauk said:

 

 

Sheeps will all be vaccinated, so why someone who doesn't want should also be ?

 

 

If a company thinks its for the best and if it helps with the business opening. Then the person has a choice, take the vaccination or find an other job. The thing is many anti vaxers do want all the rights but never want to have the burdens that come with their choice. 

 

Every choice to vaccinate or not has pro's and cons so as long as anti vaxers can accept that im totally fine with it. Just as i prefer an US vaccine as i think it works better. Its a choice and every choice has a plus and a min i might have to wait longer or takes more effort to get its my choice. 

OP,  is the company forcing the employees to vaccinate with a specific vaccine, or this is the only vaccine available in the area? 

I suspect the latter.

Here in Samui I know a few larger shops who required the employees to be vaccinated.

 

I can totally understand the employers, who don't want to close their business for weeks, just because someone thinks that Bill Gates will inject them the latest version of Windows which is upgradeable via 5G.

 

5 hours ago, wadman said:

 

What about the rights of coworkers who will be at risk working (in person) with unvaccinated colleagues?

 

The persons already vaccinated will be protected from developing severe Covid symptoms that's what the vaccine does right ?