LIME TREE BRANCHES DYING

[Saraburi121]

Need some help figuring out what is causing my lime trees branches to start dying and what to treat the trees with.  It looks like some kind of boring beetle as you can see sap oozing out.  I use neem oil or white oil to spray occasionally which keeps a lot of pests away.  Attached are some pictures.  

[DumbFalang]

Yep, that's all a normal part of growing Citrus trees. Citrus borer and Gummosis can be devastating and I'm sure others will be able to advise how you can prevent them. I refuse to use pesticides, so I just take the losses on the chin and plant more trees.

 

On a lighter note, there is a little game you can play to make yourself feel a bit better. After you cut off the dead branch, you can start 'chasing' the borer down the remainer of the branch towards the trunk of the tree. Keep cutting every two inches until you find the little yellow (swear word) and enjoy chopping him into little pieces. If you don't find him, you can lose the whole tree.

[CharlieH]

Its the red ants that get me, crikey they hurt, go anywhere near the Lime tree and they attack !

[drtreelove]

I will try to help, although you have not given much information. 

 

Tree health, pests, diseases and disorders are never just about one factor alone, but always involve not only the causal organism if any, but the conditions that have allowed it to be there in the first place, usually soil fertility, plant nutrition and water management.  

 

It's always best to show a photo of the entire tree and the site, and to describe the growing conditions, soil improvements, fertilization and watering. 

 

Gummosis can be related to any irritation, pest, pathogen or wounding.  

 

From the photo, the gumming appears to be assosciated with a wound or pruning cut or small breakage at the site where a fungal pathogen may have entered. Or did you identify a beetle borer larva, or holes and galleries formed from a borer?  Use something to scrape off the gummy exudation, and then a sharp knife to slice off a thin layer of bark to expose the underlying tissue and any discoloration, holes or galleries.

 

The first line of defence is always good water managment.  Water deficit/drought stress creates conditions that certain pests can see and are attracted to.  Over watering can be deadly, Citrus are highly susceptible to Phytophthora crown rot.  Citrus trees do best with infrequent deep watering, once a week then allowed to dry out some before watering again. Use a soil moisture meter to take the guess work out of when to water.  These are especially useful for container grown trees.  

All About "Watering Deeply" and Why and How to Do It (thespruce.com)

 

Along with good water managment, optimum plant nutrition works to build resistance to pests and diseases, as well as quality of the fruit.  The right kind of soil building and complete organic fertilizer is the way to go.  Cease using high NPK chemical ferrtilizers, which are a pest and disease magnet.

 

Bio-pesticides are organic program compatible and can be an important non-toxic preventive management tool. Botanicals and oils are part of that.  But "occasionally" won't do it.  Botanicals like neem seed oil extracts have short term effectiveness and need to be repeated every two weeks during the growing season or a known pest-pressure period, for an effective preventive program.  Botanicals are not usually effective for an advanced pest infestation, just as biological fungicides are highly effective if used properly for prevention, but will not cure an advanced infection. Be careful with horticultural oils, mixing rates and timing and atmospheric temperature, as some products and concentrations will burn foliage and flowers, especially with temps over 30 C. (which is most days in Saraburi, right?)

 

Without a positive identification, cover all the bases: 

Do the best you can with your soil and water management program.  

Walk your garden/orchard every day, or at least every week.  Prune out the affected branch tips as soon as you notice them, six inches or so below the infection site, dispose of the pruned material off-site.  

As long as you are noticing new damage, Spray the foliage every week, upper and lower leaf surfaces, as well as the woody stems and branches with azadirachtin concentrate neem product according to the label rate.  If new damage ceases, then go to every two weeks.  This is also preventive for citrus leaf miner, scale insects and Asian citrus psyllid that vectors HLB bacteria (citrus greening disease).   Don

 

 

 

[faraday]

@Grafting Ken might be able to shed some light on this.

 

I bought a couple off him a year ago, & they're really strong. Got some lovely fruit on them too.

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Its the red ants that get me, crikey they hurt, go anywhere near the Lime tree and they attack !

What about mango trees, do they get attacked by ants too?

[CharlieH]

16 minutes ago, EricTh said:

What about mango trees, do they get attacked by ants too?

I have seen them there but not aggressive like they are on the Lime.

[Saraburi121]

8 hours ago, drtreelove said:

I will try to help, although you have not given much information. 

 

Tree health, pests, diseases and disorders are never just about one factor alone, but always involve not only the causal organism if any, but the conditions that have allowed it to be there in the first place, usually soil fertility, plant nutrition and water management.  

 

It's always best to show a photo of the entire tree and the site, and to describe the growing conditions, soil improvements, fertilization and watering. 

 

Gummosis can be related to any irritation, pest, pathogen or wounding.  

 

From the photo, the gumming appears to be assosciated with a wound or pruning cut or small breakage at the site where a fungal pathogen may have entered. Or did you identify a beetle borer larva, or holes and galleries formed from a borer?  Use something to scrape off the gummy exudation, and then a sharp knife to slice off a thin layer of bark to expose the underlying tissue and any discoloration, holes or galleries.

 

The first line of defence is always good water managment.  Water deficit/drought stress creates conditions that certain pests can see and are attracted to.  Over watering can be deadly, Citrus are highly susceptible to Phytophthora crown rot.  Citrus trees do best with infrequent deep watering, once a week then allowed to dry out some before watering again. Use a soil moisture meter to take the guess work out of when to water.  These are especially useful for container grown trees.  

All About "Watering Deeply" and Why and How to Do It (thespruce.com)

 

Along with good water managment, optimum plant nutrition works to build resistance to pests and diseases, as well as quality of the fruit.  The right kind of soil building and complete organic fertilizer is the way to go.  Cease using high NPK chemical ferrtilizers, which are a pest and disease magnet.

 

Bio-pesticides are organic program compatible and can be an important non-toxic preventive management tool. Botanicals and oils are part of that.  But "occasionally" won't do it.  Botanicals like neem seed oil extracts have short term effectiveness and need to be repeated every two weeks during the growing season or a known pest-pressure period, for an effective preventive program.  Botanicals are not usually effective for an advanced pest infestation, just as biological fungicides are highly effective if used properly for prevention, but will not cure an advanced infection. Be careful with horticultural oils, mixing rates and timing and atmospheric temperature, as some products and concentrations will burn foliage and flowers, especially with temps over 30 C. (which is most days in Saraburi, right?)

 

Without a positive identification, cover all the bases: 

Do the best you can with your soil and water management program.  

Walk your garden/orchard every day, or at least every week.  Prune out the affected branch tips as soon as you notice them, six inches or so below the infection site, dispose of the pruned material off-site.  

As long as you are noticing new damage, Spray the foliage every week, upper and lower leaf surfaces, as well as the woody stems and branches with azadirachtin concentrate neem product according to the label rate.  If new damage ceases, then go to every two weeks.  This is also preventive for citrus leaf miner, scale insects and Asian citrus psyllid that vectors HLB bacteria (citrus greening disease).   Don

 

 

 

Much appreciated taking the time to give a detailed response for a post which I did not give enough information. 

Never had a soil test done which we need to. Have a Ph meter and the soil is 6.9 consistently.   Soil here is worn out I think from years of growing cassava and corn.  Just past my second year living here and persuaded the wife to plant a cover crop to rotate through the land we plant corn/cassava in.  Used the available soil fro the land along with some dried cow poop and left it set for a few months before planting the lime trees in concrete rings as a test bed.  High west exposure to sun, minimal east.  Its a tough place here weather wise,  lot of the rains miss and long dry spells. Temps in April near 40 and many days over 32.  Fertilize is pelletized chicken poop about every 6 months worked into the soil.  Deep water every week if needed. Tree health is ok right now and one tree has a lot of small limes.  Try to keep ground coconut husks on top of the soil but the damn chickens love scratching it off.   Do walk the land every morning.  Seems like the only thing that thrives here is Noi Na (custard apple) and cassava.   Noi Na love it here. We live in the mountains northwest of Pak Chong with well a red semi clay soil that drains well and leaves your feet stained red. 

 

Examined the branches and no boring holes nor has it been pruned since the dry season except for cutting off the dying limbs recently.  Even put alcohol on the snippers and let dry before going to the next tree.  Now same problem is affecting the kaffir limes and a flowering bush that I don't know the name of.  

 

I have not treated the lime trees with neem oil for a few weeks until the problem, had a few rains and should have. 

 

Its a rough environment here with the hot, rains then lack of rains.  Had no success growing chili peppers here as they get brown spots just before ripening.  Tried everything with chili peppers. My jalapeño, habanero and tomatoes get the same internal brown spots just before ripening.  Have beautiful healthy chili pepper plants but never get the ripened fruit.   

 

Not a professional farmer but love to grow things and trying to figure out why they don't.  Will not use pesticides which I am starting to think maybe you have to on some things where I live. 

[tifino]

speaking of the various Citrus tree related diseases/infestations etc

- does LOS have the Citrus Gall Wasp problem at all?  

 

I today after reading the OP went outside to check on my own Pomelo, Orange, Mandarin, and Meyer Lemon trees, to look out for the sap; but found the above generic scenario instead... 

 At first light I reckon tomorrow will be taken up half shaving one side of each of the larvae nests - my Meyer is full of that problem ???? 

Google has a lot on all these various problems, and suggested solutions...   

- For MY job, mrs will be finding out she's been sacrificed one of her vege peelers for the task

 

 

[drtreelove]

On 5/25/2021 at 8:08 AM, Saraburi121 said:

Much appreciated taking the time to give a detailed response for a post which I did not give enough information. 

Never had a soil test done which we need to. Have a Ph meter and the soil is 6.9 consistently.   Soil here is worn out I think from years of growing cassava and corn.  Just past my second year living here and persuaded the wife to plant a cover crop to rotate through the land we plant corn/cassava in.  Used the available soil fro the land along with some dried cow poop and left it set for a few months before planting the lime trees in concrete rings as a test bed.  High west exposure to sun, minimal east.  Its a tough place here weather wise,  lot of the rains miss and long dry spells. Temps in April near 40 and many days over 32.  Fertilize is pelletized chicken poop about every 6 months worked into the soil.  Deep water every week if needed. Tree health is ok right now and one tree has a lot of small limes.  Try to keep ground coconut husks on top of the soil but the damn chickens love scratching it off.   Do walk the land every morning.  Seems like the only thing that thrives here is Noi Na (custard apple) and cassava.   Noi Na love it here. We live in the mountains northwest of Pak Chong with well a red semi clay soil that drains well and leaves your feet stained red. 

 

Examined the branches and no boring holes nor has it been pruned since the dry season except for cutting off the dying limbs recently.  Even put alcohol on the snippers and let dry before going to the next tree.  Now same problem is affecting the kaffir limes and a flowering bush that I don't know the name of.  

 

I have not treated the lime trees with neem oil for a few weeks until the problem, had a few rains and should have. 

 

Its a rough environment here with the hot, rains then lack of rains.  Had no success growing chili peppers here as they get brown spots just before ripening.  Tried everything with chili peppers. My jalapeño, habanero and tomatoes get the same internal brown spots just before ripening.  Have beautiful healthy chili pepper plants but never get the ripened fruit.   

 

Not a professional farmer but love to grow things and trying to figure out why they don't.  Will not use pesticides which I am starting to think maybe you have to on some things where I live. 

 

 

That's better information.

My two satang: 

Without evidence of borer activity, (holes, galleries, larvae that can be chased out like DF suggested), then we are looking at a pathogen or environmental damage like drying and sunburn.

A pathogen would be a disease organism like bacterial gummosis, or a fungal canker disease. Phytophthora water mold is unlikely in this situation in my opinion.  Without the ability to get a positive indentification on a pest or a pathogen, I would treat it as physiological stress, (probably also compromised with nutrient deficiencies), which can be responsible for susceptibility to various pests or pathogens and abiotic disorders. 

 

Direct sun exposure is what citrus need, as long as they are adequately hydrated, but your climate and exposure may be extreme. Exposed woody parts, especially on young trees, can result in sun-scald of bark and underlying live tissues. The drying and burning can impair uptake of water and nutrients. Before the trees develop a full foliar canopy, you may consider filtered shade cloth for direct afternoon sun.  

 

In your extreme environment you really need to get the watering right (soil moisture meter reading wet 6" deep after watering, then allowed to dry to the lower moist range before watering again, not allowed to get completely dry) and to progressively improve the soil as best you can.  If you can find agricultural gypsum, that would be my first input. A couple of handfuls spread on the soil surface and watered in. This will add calcium and sulfur in a ration that will not raise the soil pH like ag lime will do.  Gypsum has multiple benefits for soil improvement, and Calcium is a major factor in building plant cell wall strength and resistance to disease and pest damage. Sulfur is another important nutrient and almost always deficient in soil tests that I do. Organic matter inputs, preferrably real compost, will help in lowering pH a little, and enhance the beneficial soil biological activity. EM or AACT (actively aerated compost tea) at least quarterly, would be a bonus for soil and plant health.  

 

Without soil testing and Rx amendments, the next best thing is a general purpose organic fertilizer program. Your aged chicken manure pellets should be okay, but don't dig too deep to work it in and damage surface absorbing roots, light scratching it into the soil surface is okay. Mulch is essential, but the chickens are scratching it up looking for bugs and worms, so you may consider fencing until the soil improvements can take effect and the plant health stabilizes. 

 

I recommend fertilizing with a COF (complete organic fertilizer ).  My friends at bestgardenstate.com are just about to launch their new line of organic fertizer products on the website, FB and Lazada, so keep watching.  Until then I recommend the bokashi fertilizer product from OrganicTotto.  I've used it and done trials with positive results. 

 

 

[drtreelove]

On 5/25/2021 at 8:19 AM, tifino said:

speaking of the various Citrus tree related diseases/infestations etc

- does LOS have the Citrus Gall Wasp problem at all?  

 

I today after reading the OP went outside to check on my own Pomelo, Orange, Mandarin, and Meyer Lemon trees, to look out for the sap; but found the above generic scenario instead... 

 At first light I reckon tomorrow will be taken up half shaving one side of each of the larvae nests - my Meyer is full of that problem ???? 

Google has a lot on all these various problems, and suggested solutions...   

- For MY job, mrs will be finding out she's been sacrificed one of her vege peelers for the task

 

 

Interesting! But I'm not clear on your tree location, in LOS or Down Under?  I deal with gall wasps on other trees, but I haven't encounted it on citrus in Thailand.  Other growers may have more information.

 

You have identified a good IPM mechanical control method that is non chemical.  Although for large commercial plantings this may not be practical.

Peel and Reveal - Citrus Gall Wasp - Fact Sheets - Gardening Australia - GARDENING AUSTRALIA (abc.net.au)

 

Azadirachtin neem concentrate applications with the right timing and frequency may help. Its a potent insect pest repellent, anti-feedant and reproductive disruptor. Other botanicals are also repellents, rosemary, clove and other aromatic oils.

 

I hate to hear growers categorize any spraying as harmful pesticide use and ignore these options and say that they don't use pesticides. Hard chemistry pesticides okay, I agree. but "soft chemistry" biopestices like botanicals are useful and are non-toxic, and organic program compatible. But they have to be combined in a comprehensive program with good growing conditons, soil and water management, in order to be most effective.

 

Certis USA - Biopesticides for Crop Protection 

[tifino]

11 hours ago, drtreelove said:

Interesting! But I'm not clear on your tree location, in LOS or Down Under?  I deal with gall wasps on other trees, but I haven't encounted it on citrus in Thailand.  Other growers may have more information.

 

You have identified a good IPM mechanical control method that is non chemical.  Although for large commercial plantings this may not be practical.

Peel and Reveal - Citrus Gall Wasp - Fact Sheets - Gardening Australia - GARDENING AUSTRALIA (abc.net.au)

 

Azadirachtin neem concentrate applications with the right timing and frequency may help. Its a potent insect pest repellent, anti-feedant and reproductive disruptor. Other botanicals are also repellents, rosemary, clove and other aromatic oils.

 

I hate to hear growers categorize any spraying as harmful pesticide use and ignore these options and say that they don't use pesticides. Hard chemistry pesticides okay, I agree. but "soft chemistry" biopestices like botanicals are useful and are non-toxic, and organic program compatible. But they have to be combined in a comprehensive program with good growing conditons, soil and water management, in order to be most effective.

 

Certis USA - Biopesticides for Crop Protection 

 

am down ion OZ, but seeing as this wasp spends near ALL its effective life inside the wood, and the problem is easily transportable; I thought might be a useful (the peeler) method maybe usable for other pests ( or other Posters living in similar Temperate regions) too?