Where To Buy Solar Hybrid Inverter And what to buy

[Pink7]

I Think a Hybrid Inverter would be a doable way to get up a diy solar project. Hybrid Inverter look to be over priced in Thailand, so i looked at Mppsolar from Taiwan. I think i see it commented some places here some experiences on get this units in to Thailand . Anyone have experiences on this to share? How much will the custom etc add up? Im looking at a unit who cost around $950 ( $1100 shipped with DHL)

 

 

Pink

Edited June 4, 2021 by Pink7

[Crossy]

Ask if it's possible to use "Thailand Special Line" (not sure if it's mainland China only) slightly slower but all duties and VAT are included. Saved me a fair bit on our Sofar inverter from China.

 

Otherwise expect 10% duty plus 7% VAT both on the CIF value.

 

There are many flavours of hybrid, do ensure that the unit you order does what you need it to (like grid-tie with or without export).

 

[Pink7]

I was think going without export, look complicated with to much paper etc. Or do i need to apply anyway? My main idea is to have some battery storage so i also have power, when the grid power supply is down.

 

Pink

[Crossy]

If you are never going to export no need to tell anyone (grid-tie without export might be a grey area mind).

 

Do you intend having enough solar to cover your entire energy requirements with just a grid backup for the darker days, or are you going to start small (ish) and use the solar to augment your grid usage (reduce your bill)?

 

How about your emergency supply, whole house or just essentials?

 

And of course what's the budget?

 

We are looking at using these https://www.sofarsolar.com/product-detail/562/HYD 5500-EP on-grid hybrids. Never export, excess power goes into the batteries and comes out when the sun is behind a cloud or at night. The inverter tries to keep grid consumption at zero. If the batteries are dead and it's night the energy just comes from the grid like a normal grid-tie system. Trouble is these inverters are not cheap.

 

[Pink7]

Im planing for a MPP MAX series 8KW 48Vdc, with near 8000w panels so i could cover our usage most of the time. when sun, home should use solar, the when no sun load from batteries, when no battery (for example raining season) load from grid. I will probably not have much more than 24 hours coverage capacity with batteries. I need to work some more on budget and setup, rough budget 150k: Inverter 40k + Panels 60k +battery and others 50k. Where you will order the HYD 5500-EP and what is the cost? Look like a quality product.

 

Pink

Edited June 4, 2021 by Pink7

[Crossy]

A few thoughts.

 

How much can that 8kW inverter actually put into the batteries? Check the charger spec. For example the 6kW Sofar hybrid charges at 60A max at 48V (3kW). The rest of the 6kW is either powering something, exporting, or doing nothing.

 

You could put some of the panels on a separate MPPT charge controller to get more charge current (charge controllers will parallel happily on one battery pack).

 

It might be worth using two smaller inverters (assuming they can parallel) just in case one gets zapped.

 

You may want to spend a bit more on batteries than 50k but prices are coming down all the time. Our load over night is greater than daytime, but we don't use A/C during the day.

 

60k of panels would get you about 20 450W panels = 9kW

 

How are you going to heat water? Direct solar hot-water works well, gas heaters are a good backup source. Solar PV to electric heater is terribly inefficient.

[Pink7]

Max Charging Current (PV power): 120A (8KW)

 

There is a smaller unit 5048 who have 80a

 

 

Pink

Edited June 4, 2021 by Pink7

[Crossy]

Looks good and can parallel. 

 

But with no synchronised tie to the grid you can never go over 8kW load, so watch start currents for A/C (inverter units are your friend) and water pumps.

 

Also beware of fan noise, some of these beasts can sound like Concorde taking off when under heavy load.

[Pink7]

I had a plan and hope for not need more than 8kw, alternative 2x5kw, the unit cost almost 50% of the max so maybe should be considered. I have a secondary building with garage storage/hobby room etc where i had plan to place the inverters, and panels on the same roof. so the noise is no problem. Good point on start currents. Im fully covered with inverter units. I have a Mr slim 18000 BTU running 24/7, 2 large inverter refrigerators/freezers so as i write in another post im happy to see my electric bill use to be no more than 3xxx/month

 

Pink

Edited June 4, 2021 by Pink7

[Crossy]

26 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

I had a plan ...

 

The best laid plans of mice ...

 

The extra couple of kW from 2 x 5kW units could be a handy buffer when the unexpected load comes along.

[Pink7]

16 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

The best laid plans of mice ...

 

The extra couple of kW from 2 x 5kW units could be a handy buffer when the unexpected load comes along.

Ok i will look into that, its maybe a better size to deal with

 

 

Pink

[sezze]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

60k of panels would get you about 20 450W panels = 9kW

 

 

 That looks very cheap .Thats 3000 baht for a 450 watt panel . Can you share us a link where you did find it ? So far the ones i've seen come always now at around 9baht/watt , so a 450watt panel  +/- 4000-4200 baht .

 

[Crossy]

12 hours ago, sezze said:

 That looks very cheap .Thats 3000 baht for a 450 watt panel . Can you share us a link where you did find it ? So far the ones i've seen come always now at around 9baht/watt , so a 450watt panel  +/- 4000-4200 baht .

 

Yeah, I might have been a little generous. 

 

That said Global have (ok, had, of out of stock) Jinko 325W panels for 2,500 Baht

https://www.globalhouse.co.th/product/detail/3718803400015

retail, that's about 7.3 Baht / Watt. Definitely not surprising they're sold out but worth watching that space.

 

60k of them would get just under 8kW.

[Muhendis]

I used MPP inverter chargers for a few years and, as Crossy said, they are very noisy. There are others which are similar for example https://www.srnesolar.com/ which have temp. controlled fans. I found the MPPs (3x4kw) to be very good apart from the noise until I had a nearby lightning strike which killed two of them however that's mainly because I hadn't fitted a surge arrester and the incoming mains was a temporary 1km connection which acted much like an antenna for EMP. I have had dealings with SRNE and I must say they make a very good charge controller (4860) which works faultlessly with my solar setup.

[Crossy]

@Muhendis brings up an excellent point. Surge suppressors are absolutely essential on the DC and AC connections. Close to the inverter and with a good solid ground.

 

The inverters do have MOVs built in but adding external units adds an extra layer of protection for your expensive investment in a high lightning environment (everywhere in Thailand).

[Tubulat]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

@Muhendis brings up an excellent point. Surge suppressors are absolutely essential on the DC and AC connections. Close to the inverter and with a good solid ground.

 

The inverters do have MOVs built in but adding external units adds an extra layer of protection for your expensive investment in a high lightning environment (everywhere in Thailand).

Crossy i have a question about the inverters, i bought 2 Must inverters from each 5.5kWh in parallel. Also Lipo4 batteries 48V 270Ah (12,960 kWh) the batteries i bought by Shopee/Thai Jeen Trade for 40,800 thb including BMS assembled.

Also i bought 6x 450W solar cells from Longi but like to buy 6-8 more, this time from Suntech Ultra-V series 540W.

I hope to charge this batterie with the total of 12-14 solar panels, and the 2 inverters.

But i'am confused about the data in the user manual maybe it is my problems with interpreting the english language, maybe it is the translation done by the Chinese to english.

In the 2 pictures you'll see in item 11: the adjusting of the max charging current, just apart from 1c, or 0.5c, when they are parallel do i have to adjust each inverter to 135A?

In item 31, do i have to adjust this or will the BMS in the batterie this adjust by itself.

There are more questions about the inverter but i don't want to bother you with that.

Of course, i hear you saying, why don't ask it at Must, but that's the point, the Chinese have never heard of after sales service, when you repeatedly send emails, you'll never get an answer.

[Muhendis]

The setting you need is 14 which is for LiFePO4 batteries. You can set up the maximum charge voltage with this setting. There is probably also a default setting for this.

Once you have selected this setting the others become irrelevant. I might also mention that the BMS is there in amongst other things, to ensure that the battery is disconnected if the battery voltage becomes low during discharge and if the charging voltage becomes high during charge.

[Tubulat]

9 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

The setting you need is 14 which is for LiFePO4 batteries. You can set up the maximum charge voltage with this setting. There is probably also a default setting for this.

Once you have selected this setting the others become irrelevant. I might also mention that the BMS is there in amongst other things, to ensure that the battery is disconnected if the battery voltage becomes low during discharge and if the charging voltage becomes high during charge.

Thanks, the max charging voltage is adjust to 58V, floating charge (i don't know what it mean) 54,4V, and low voltage cut off 48V, all this according to the supplier's statement. Only the charging current was unclear, but if i interpret you well, i can adjust each inverter to 160A (is max).

[sezze]

1 hour ago, Tubulat said:

Thanks, the max charging voltage is adjust to 58V, floating charge (i don't know what it mean) 54,4V, and low voltage cut off 48V, all this according to the supplier's statement. Only the charging current was unclear, but if i interpret you well, i can adjust each inverter to 160A (is max).

How much can your BMS charge take . 160 amps is rather high , some BMS can take that kind of charging power , but certainly not all .

The battery pack itself is a good find , since i saw many in same price range , but many times you can only buy a few cells ( not the 16 needed for making 48V ) .

Many times the BMS is programmable , making you spare the batteries by not charging to 100% cap and not discharge to 0% . i think( but i need look up the numbers) , that 10% to 90% is ideal for long long lifecycle of lifepo4 . 

[Muhendis]

Your maximum current is more likely to be determined by the PV panels and whilst on the subject, have you checked the maximum power and open circuit voltages that the charger PV input can handle. It will be costly if these figures are exceeded. 

With regard to the BMS.  The current capacity they quote will be in relation to the maximum current they can handle before they fail. This is quite important in a 48v system. If the inverter needs to supply full power of 10kw then the battery will need to supply more than 208 amps through the BMS discharge circuit. This is why larger power systems generally go for the higher battery voltage of 96v. 

[Muhendis]

2 hours ago, Tubulat said:

the max charging voltage is adjust to 58V, floating charge

This is a voltage that is applied to lead acid batteries to overcome self discharge although the terminology now seems to be applied to a top-up charge to finish the last 10% of charging. It is not required for LiFePO4 batteries.

[Tubulat]

53 minutes ago, sezze said:

How much can your BMS charge take . 160 amps is rather high , some BMS can take that kind of charging power , but certainly not all .

The battery pack itself is a good find , since i saw many in same price range , but many times you can only buy a few cells ( not the 16 needed for making 48V ) .

Many times the BMS is programmable , making you spare the batteries by not charging to 100% cap and not discharge to 0% . i think( but i need look up the numbers) , that 10% to 90% is ideal for long long lifecycle of lifepo4 . 

Let me show what the supplier stated:

"BYD battery 48V 260Ah assembled with 1xANT smart BMS 320A plus 1x16S 5A active balancer (assembled from two BYD 24V 260Ah battery modules)"

[Tubulat]

21 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

This is a voltage that is applied to lead acid batteries to overcome self discharge although the terminology now seems to be applied to a top-up charge to finish the last 10% of charging. It is not required for LiFePO4 batteries.

I see, i didn't know about that, you are never too old to learn.

[Tubulat]

Overview of battery

 

 

[Tubulat]

43 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Your maximum current is more likely to be determined by the PV panels and whilst on the subject, have you checked the maximum power and open circuit voltages that the charger PV input can handle. It will be costly if these figures are exceeded. 

With regard to the BMS.  The current capacity they quote will be in relation to the maximum current they can handle before they fail. This is quite important in a 48v system. If the inverter needs to supply full power of 10kw then the battery will need to supply more than 208 amps through the BMS discharge circuit. This is why larger power systems generally go for the higher battery voltage of 96v. 

The open circuit voltage of the PV array is 145V dc.

The panels will be 2S3P what results in 90V by 30 A,  times 2

[Crossy]

4 hours ago, Tubulat said:

the batteries i bought by Shopee/Thai Jeen Trade for 40,800 thb including BMS assembled.

 

Do you have a link for that shop, I'm useless with the Shopee search engine?

[Tubulat]

54 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Do you have a link for that shop, I'm useless with the Shopee search engine?

 

54 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Do you have a link for that shop, I'm useless with the Shopee search engine?

I'll search for that, but here i have his email, he always answer instantly

[Tubulat]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

Do you have a link for that shop, I'm useless with the Shopee search engine?

Yes, it is:  shopee.co.th/thaijeensolar

[Muhendis]

Those batteries are indeed a find. Wish I needed them now...........

https://shopee.co.th/BYD-LiFePO4-แบตเตอรี่ลิเทียมฟอสเฟส-ยี่ห้อ-BYD-ขนาด-1P8S-24v-260Ah-เป็นโมดูลสำเร็จรูป-ใส่แต่-BMS-ใช้งานได้ทันที-i.35505682.6361658353

[BritManToo]

23 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Those batteries are indeed a find. Wish I needed them now...........

https://shopee.co.th/BYD-LiFePO4-แบตเตอรี่ลิเทียมฟอสเฟส-ยี่ห้อ-BYD-ขนาด-1P8S-24v-260Ah-เป็นโมดูลสำเร็จรูป-ใส่แต่-BMS-ใช้งานได้ทันที-i.35505682.6361658353

Would point out every 'pre-order ships in xx days' I've encountered on Shoppee was some sort of scam.