Where To Buy Solar Hybrid Inverter And what to buy

[Pink7]

Thanks for the shared info and photos Muhendis, looks like a powerful setup. I found this board. Do you have a link to a 10kW pwm power module/ 8kW EI transformer or similare?

 

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

 The 10kW module I used.....

https://th.aliexpress.com/item/4001045350058.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2tha&spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.27424c4dGhFJxZ

Can't help very much with the transformer because mine was from the original inverter.

To start you off here is a Google search phrase "transformer companies Thailand" which could be useful. The transformer is likely to be un-cheap. The term I used (EI) refers to the type of laminate construction. A toroidal (ring) transformer will be just as good although it's magnetic characteristics will be very different.

If you take a look at the 10kW module above, there will be some information about the transformer there as well as a lot of information re set-up and additional components you will need. For the setup procedure I had to look at a few other adds for other modules. There is plenty of information but you need to be wearing your sleuth hat to find it.

[Muhendis]

On 2/6/2022 at 8:07 PM, Muhendis said:

 The 10kW module I used.....

https://th.aliexpress.com/item/4001045350058.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2tha&spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.27424c4dGhFJxZ

Can't help very much with the transformer because mine was from the original inverter.

To start you off here is a Google search phrase "transformer companies Thailand" which could be useful. The transformer is likely to be un-cheap. The term I used (EI) refers to the type of laminate construction. A toroidal (ring) transformer will be just as good although it's magnetic characteristics will be very different.

If you take a look at the 10kW module above, there will be some information about the transformer there as well as a lot of information re set-up and additional components you will need. For the setup procedure I had to look at a few other adds for other modules. There is plenty of information but you need to be wearing your sleuth hat to find it.

I stumbled across this You Tube about inverter transformers which might be useful. 

 

[Pink7]

4 hours ago, Muhendis said:

I stumbled across this You Tube about inverter transformers which might be useful. 

 

Thanks,  low frequency and components very excite me, have you come over a English speaking video how to build/mount it together?

 

This 10kw build is sold for B39k, how you think that price compared to buy all in components myself:

 

Pink

Edited February 10, 2022 by Pink7

[Muhendis]

4 hours ago, Pink7 said:

how you think that price compared to buy all in components myself

I honestly don't know but at a guess I would think 39k would be about double the component price. 'Course you could buy the item in the video and rebuild it to your satisfaction ????.

Please excuse me if the following does not apply to you.

As far as an English language instructional is concerned I must emphasise you would be taking a bit of a gamble to attempt such a project without a certain level of expertise. Things can and do go wrong and you need to know what to do to put them right. In my view knowing the names of components and what they do is a requirement as is being able to read and understand a circuit diagram. There will be plenty of help on this forum I'm sure.

I will look out for an English language you tube and if I come across one I will post here. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Muhendis
new information

[Pink7]

24 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

I honestly don't know but at a guess I would think 39k would be about double the component price. 'Course you could buy the item in the video and rebuild it to your satisfaction ????.

Please excuse me if the following does not apply to you.

As far as an English language instructional is concerned I must emphasise you would be taking a bit of a gamble to attempt such a project without a certain level of expertise. Things can and do go wrong and you need to know what to do to put them right. In my view knowing the names of components and what they do is a requirement as is being able to read and understand a circuit diagram. There will be plenty of help on this forum I'm sure.

I will look out for an English language you tube and if I come across one I will post here. 

Yes you have some good points, probably the MPP 8KW is the best solution, just like to have checked out the other options. Plug And Play as the all in one is very doable,,  I just want to get a solution who last..

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

Regarding the differences between high frequency and low frequency inverters.

 

Low Frequency inverters

• Very tolerant of overloads up to 200% for as long as 20 seconds.
• Longevity and reliability is decades. (Except mine).
• Difficult to impossible to grid tie.
• They're very heavy so wall mounting needs thinking about.

 

High frequency inverters

• Very short duration overload tolerance.
• Good for grid tie.
• Not heavy so can be wall mounted easily.

[Pink7]

Anyone have experiences with this type batteries, i found deal: 12V / 200 Ah = 8,880 บาท

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/newmax-solar-gel-deep-cycle-12v-100a-1-i3384364736-s12511725225.html?exlaz=d_1:mm_150050845_51350205_2010350205::12:12654756915!117524295342!!!pla-294682000766!c!294682000766!12511725225!133781507&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjJOQBhCkARIsAEKMtO0ywHpPl-LFHZpSN-HZ12mG-rq52CdXlGZD5QX0lXA4PxpHL_IBVYoaAkOoEALw_wcB

 

Pink

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Pink7 said:

Anyone have experiences with this type batteries, i found deal: 12V / 200 Ah = 8,880 บาท

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/newmax-solar-gel-deep-cycle-12v-100a-1-i3384364736-s12511725225.html?exlaz=d_1:mm_150050845_51350205_2010350205::12:12654756915!117524295342!!!pla-294682000766!c!294682000766!12511725225!133781507&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjJOQBhCkARIsAEKMtO0ywHpPl-LFHZpSN-HZ12mG-rq52CdXlGZD5QX0lXA4PxpHL_IBVYoaAkOoEALw_wcB

 

Pink

Old technology, much the same as a car battery.

Your link points to a 100AH battery.

No feedback, low seller rating.

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by BritManToo

[Pink7]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Old technology, much the same as a car battery.

Your link points to a 100AH battery.

No feedback, low seller rating.

 

Seller is different, just for reference for product info. I talked a solar company who sell 12V / 200 Ah = 8,880

 

Pink

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Pink7 said:

Seller is different, just for reference for product info. I talked a solar company who sell 12V / 200 Ah = 8,880

 

Thing is, if you go with the used LiFePO4 "golf cart" cells you can build a 200Ah 12V pack for about the same price.

 

The used 200Ah cells we have were about 80% of new capacity (measured at 160Ah ish) which is rather more than the 100Ah of usable capacity in the lead-acid. I've not noticed any reduction in capacity since we've had them in use.

 

Of course, there's always some risk buying used kit but many would find it acceptable for the increased available capacity.

 

 

[Pink7]

I got another option from same company: Anyone have some views on this type batteries? 48v 200A 50k

 

Pink

 

[Pink7]

From what i found i see this battery pack is made from some recycled bus batteries, so then i guess the used Calb batteries is a better deal

 

Pink

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

From what i found i see this battery pack is made from some recycled bus batteries, so then i guess the used Calb batteries is a better deal

 

Pink

These started turning up a few weeks back @ 22KBht for a 24V pack.

https://shopee.co.th/BYD-LiFePO4-แบตเตอรี่ลิเทียมฟอสเฟส-ยี่ห้อ-BYD-ขนาด-1P8S-24v-200Ah-เป็นโมดูลสำเร็จรูป-ใส่แต่-BMS-ใช้งานได้ทันที-i.35505682.14540739849

 

I contacted one place that said they were new, you need two of them for a 48V battery (50KBht)

https://shopee.co.th/BYD-LiFePO4-แบตเตอรี่ลิเทียมฟอสเฟส-ยี่ห้อ-BYD-ขนาด-1P16S-48v-260Ah-เป็นโมดูลสำเร็จรูป-ใส่JKBMSมีActive-2A-ใช้งานได้ทันที-i.35505682.10250909131

 

Not sure how easy it would be to replace a cell that went bad, so I decided to save 20KBht by using the CalB batteries. And if one cell fails, I know it will only cost me 1,500bht to fix the CalB 48V pack. Don't know how hard it would be to pull one cell out of a BYD 24V pack, or even if I could get a single replacement cell.

 

Up to you really.

Edited February 11, 2022 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Crossy said:

Of course, there's always some risk buying used kit but many would find it acceptable for the increased available capacity.

And ease of repair.

I was also watching videos stating the CalB battery specs were designed for extreme high level fast charge/discharge cycles, and putting them in solar arrays where you get very slow charge/discharge stressed the batteries so little they were likely to last well beyond their rated life. Which made sense to me.

Edited February 11, 2022 by BritManToo

[Muhendis]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Old technology, much the same as a car battery.

Your link points to a 100AH battery.

No feedback, low seller rating.

 

A deep cycle gel battery whilst it is indeed in the family of lead acid, is very much not the same as a car battery. Internal construction and the suspension of the electrolyte in gel is what makes for a more resilient performance in renewable energy storage.

I do agree with the old tech. comment though. LiFePO4 is the way to go.

[Pink7]

so i have started to try summary all this research to a plan. what can be expected real effective watt on solar cells?

 

Pink

[Crossy]

14 minutes ago, Pink7 said:

so i have started to try summary all this research to a plan. what can be expected real effective watt on solar cells?

 

Because your panels won't produce constant power throughout the day it's better to consider daily energy yield.

 

General experience here in sunny Thailand is that a 330W panel will produce, on average, 1-1.1 kWh per day, some days better, some day much worse (bigger / smaller panels are roughly proportional). Of course it's very dependent upon the weather and whether your panels are ideally positioned. But that's a good starting point.

 

So, start with the amount of energy (kWh) you will need per day.

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Pink7 said:

so i have started to try summary all this research to a plan. what can be expected real effective watt on solar cells?

 

Pink

Half the rated power x 6hrs gives near enough the effective power generated in a day.

So my panels 5 x 340W x6hr x 1/2 = 5KWhr/day (5 units = 20bht)

Edited February 12, 2022 by BritManToo

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

5KWhr/day

 

Kelvin, Watt hours??

[007 RED]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Because your panels won't produce constant power throughout the day it's better to consider daily energy yield.

 

General experience here in sunny Thailand is that a 330W panel will produce, on average, 1-1.1 kWh per day, some days better, some day much worse (bigger / smaller panels are roughly proportional). Of course it's very dependent upon the weather and whether your panels are ideally positioned. But that's a good starting point.

 

So, start with the amount of energy (kWh) you will need per day.

 

 

 

@Pink7....... As @Crossy has indicated above, much will depend upon the weather.  My 4 x 415W panels, facing due South and inclined at approximately 15⁰, should in theory be capable of producing 1.66 kW under ideal (laboratory) conditions, but in the real world they are more likely to produce a maximum of 1.2 kW with good strong sunshine.  

 

The graphs below are taken from my monitoring software:

 

Example 1.     Shows my panel's production on a good day (06/02/22) when there was good sunshine for most of the day.  My system produced a total of 8.03 kWh that day.

 

 

Example 2.      Shows my panel's production on a poor day (10/02/22) when there was lots of cloud and a very heavy downpour early afternoon.  Total production that day was only 4.42 kWh.

 

 

[Pink7]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

@Pink7....... As @Crossy has indicated above, much will depend upon the weather.  My 4 x 415W panels, facing due South and inclined at approximately 15⁰, should in theory be capable of producing 1.66 kW under ideal (laboratory) conditions, but in the real world they are more likely to produce a maximum of 1.2 kW with good strong sunshine.  

 

The graphs below are taken from my monitoring software:

 

Example 1.     Shows my panel's production on a good day (06/02/22) when there was good sunshine for most of the day.  My system produced a total of 8.03 kWh that day.

 

 

Example 2.      Shows my panel's production on a poor day (10/02/22) when there was lots of cloud and a very heavy downpour early afternoon.  Total production that day was only 4.42 kWh.

 

 

Thanks for the info 007 RED

 

Pink

[Muhendis]

21 hours ago, 007 RED said:

@Pink7....... As @Crossy has indicated above, much will depend upon the weather.  My 4 x 415W panels, facing due South and inclined at approximately 15⁰, should in theory be capable of producing 1.66 kW under ideal (laboratory) conditions, but in the real world they are more likely to produce a maximum of 1.2 kW with good strong sunshine.  

 

The graphs below are taken from my monitoring software:

 

Example 1.     Shows my panel's production on a good day (06/02/22) when there was good sunshine for most of the day.  My system produced a total of 8.03 kWh that day.

 

 

Example 2.      Shows my panel's production on a poor day (10/02/22) when there was lots of cloud and a very heavy downpour early afternoon.  Total production that day was only 4.42 kWh.

 

 

Excellent info. Makes me think of doing something like that for myself. It would be useful if the ratio of good to bad days throughout the year was known. I would imagine that, for me, it would be around 98:2. We don't get much un-sun in Isaan

[Crossy]

I have our data going back to July 2020 so it shouldn't be a major task to sort a best/worst table.

 

I definitely need that round-tuit!

[ThaSalaPaul]

Hi everyone,

 

Let me start off by stating that I know very, very little about electricity (other than it's dangerous and not a good idea to put your finger in a socket).

 

I am looking into installing Solar energy. I live in the south of Thailand, in quite a remote area with an unreliable (3 phase) power supply, so I'm thinking of a hybrid solution. Our monthly bill is between 6k - 7k per month. We have 6/7 aircon units (though not usually more than 2 running at any given time), a 1.5HP swimming pool pump, 2 large (55 & 70 inch) TV's and a projector.

There is usually one aircon unit on for most of the day/night.

 

I have contacted a local Solar energy provider/installer and been quoted 399,000 Baht with details  as below:
"

1. Growatt Hybrid-Off grid 10kW (Three Phase) inverter 1 unit
(can use electrical equipment continuously at the same time not more than 9000W/hour)
5 year warranty
2. Solar panel, Trina Solar brand, 450W MONO Half-cut cell (Tier1) = 26 panels
*12 year body panel warranty
*25 year power production warranty
3. Gel battery 200A 12V = 8 pcs.
4. Assemble the consumer cabinet

I am very interested in hearing any opinions you experts may have. 399k Baht does not seem like a worthy investment and am therefore considering buying the equipment separately and having "them" or someone else install it

Paul

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by ThaSalaPaul

[Muhendis]

13 minutes ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Hi everyone,

 

Let me start off by stating that I know very, very little about electricity (other than it's dangerous and not a good idea to put your finger in a socket).

 

I am looking into installing Solar energy. I live in the south of Thailand, in quite a remote area with an unreliable (3 phase) power supply, so I'm thinking of a hybrid solution. Our monthly bill is between 6k - 7k per month. We have 6/7 aircon units (though not usually more than 2 running at any given time), a 1.5HP swimming pool pump, 2 large (55 & 70 inch) TV's and a projector.

There is usually one aircon unit on for most of the day/night.

 

I have contacted a local Solar energy provider/installer and been quoted 399,000 Baht with details  as below:
"

1. Growatt Hybrid-Off grid 10kW (Three Phase) inverter 1 unit
(can use electrical equipment continuously at the same time not more than 9000W/hour)
5 year warranty
2. Solar panel, Trina Solar brand, 450W MONO Half-cut cell (Tier1) = 26 panels
*12 year body panel warranty
*25 year power production warranty
3. Gel battery 200A 12V = 8 pcs.
4. Assemble the consumer cabinet

I am very interested in hearing any opinions you experts may have. 399k Baht does not seem like a worthy investment and am therefore considering buying the equipment separately and having "them" or someone else install it

Paul

 

Your 8 batteries look a bit insufficient to me.

What is your after dust electricity usage likely to be?

[BritManToo]

49 minutes ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Hi everyone,

 

Let me start off by stating that I know very, very little about electricity (other than it's dangerous and not a good idea to put your finger in a socket).

 

I am looking into installing Solar energy. I live in the south of Thailand, in quite a remote area with an unreliable (3 phase) power supply, so I'm thinking of a hybrid solution. Our monthly bill is between 6k - 7k per month. We have 6/7 aircon units (though not usually more than 2 running at any given time), a 1.5HP swimming pool pump, 2 large (55 & 70 inch) TV's and a projector.

There is usually one aircon unit on for most of the day/night.

 

I have contacted a local Solar energy provider/installer and been quoted 399,000 Baht with details  as below:
"

1. Growatt Hybrid-Off grid 10kW (Three Phase) inverter 1 unit
(can use electrical equipment continuously at the same time not more than 9000W/hour)
5 year warranty
2. Solar panel, Trina Solar brand, 450W MONO Half-cut cell (Tier1) = 26 panels
*12 year body panel warranty
*25 year power production warranty
3. Gel battery 200A 12V = 8 pcs.
4. Assemble the consumer cabinet

I am very interested in hearing any opinions you experts may have. 399k Baht does not seem like a worthy investment and am therefore considering buying the equipment separately and having "them" or someone else install it

Paul

 

I can price the parts .........

1. Growatt is expensive (70Kbht) so 11kW of off- inverter (2x 5k5 in series) = 32Kbht.

2. 26 x 450w Trina too expensive, so I'll calculate 34 x 345w = 120Kbht (vs 200k for Trina)

3. Gel is old tech (90Kbht), you can only use 60% of the rated storage (so 12kWhr), I'd use s/h LifePo4 (10kWhr x2) 60Kbht

 

Their quote uses 360,000bht of equipment ....... so labour is quite cheap.

But the gel battery storage won't last you long, you currently use 60 units/day, 12 usable units in the battery is not enough, you need at least 30 units of 'usable' storage, which you could get with the LifePo4 (3 x 48V @200AH) for the same price as they quoted your gel batteries (really odd choice for the batteries).

 

My suggestion costs 240,000bht of equipment and gives you 3x the storage (but still 30% needed from the grid).

Also the 26 x Trina panels will only generate 40units/day (at best) and you use currently 60 units/day.

You may need 3x 5k5 inverters and another 8000w of panels to completely power your home.

Edited February 14, 2022 by BritManToo

[ThaSalaPaul]

27 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Your 8 batteries look a bit insufficient to me.

What is your after dust electricity usage likely to be?

Thanks for your reply. 
Normally we would have one 12k BTU aircon running til morning and a 19kBTU aircon on from around 6PM - 10PM, plus a couple of TV's. The swimming pool pump is on from 5PM until 9PM.
They told us the system would generate around 5k-7k worth of electricity per month. I'm expecting that it may be more likely to be around 4k and thus would require some from the grid. Initially they quoted 314k Baht, but then changed it to 399k as they said they hadn't realised it was 3phase (despite being told numerous times). They say that the 3Phase (Growatt 10kW) inverter is 135k Baht

[Muhendis]

6 minutes ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Thanks for your reply. 
Normally we would have one 12k BTU aircon running til morning and a 19kBTU aircon on from around 6PM - 10PM, plus a couple of TV's. The swimming pool pump is on from 5PM until 9PM.
They told us the system would generate around 5k-7k worth of electricity per month. I'm expecting that it may be more likely to be around 4k and thus would require some from the grid. Initially they quoted 314k Baht, but then changed it to 399k as they said they hadn't realised it was 3phase (despite being told numerous times). They say that the 3Phase (Growatt 10kW) inverter is 135k Baht

Do you want to be completely independent from the grid or will you be happy to use some grid power (when available) for example for the swimming pool pump etc?

Edited February 14, 2022 by Muhendis
new information

[ThaSalaPaul]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I can price the parts .........

1. Growatt is expensive (70Kbht) so 11kW of off- inverter (2x 5k5 in series) = 32Kbht.

2. 26 x 450w Trina too expensive, so I'll calculate 34 x 345w = 120Kbht (vs 200k for Trina)

3. Gel is old tech (90Kbht), you can only use 60% of the rated storage (so 12kWhr), I'd use s/h LifePo4 (10kWhr x2) 60Kbht

 

Their quote uses 360,000bht of equipment ....... so labour is quite cheap.

But the gel battery storage won't last you long, you currently use 60 units/day, 12 usable units in the battery is not enough, you need at least 30 units of 'usable' storage, which you could get with the LifePo4 (3 x 48V @200AH) for the same price as they quoted your gel batteries (really odd choice for the batteries).

 

My suggestion costs 240,000bht of equipment and gives you 3x the storage (but still 30% needed from the grid).

Also the 26 x Trina panels will only generate 40units/day (at best) and you use currently 60 units/day.

You may need 3x 5k5 inverters and another 8000w of panels to completely power your home.

Thanks for the suggestion, really appreciate it. I will look into it