Agent service for retirement visa without meeting 800k/65k financial requirements

[SEAsia Traveler]

I know it’s not a visa. I’m referring to the 3-month Non-Immigrant type O visa for purpose of retirement and ongoing 1-year extensions. Many refer to this as Thailand’s retirement visa.

 

It requires 800k THB on deposit or 65k THB per month deposited into a Thai bank. The 800k balance requires a 2-month seasoning prior to, and 3-month seasoning following, each 1-year extension application, not to fall below 400k. 

 

This visa and extension can be obtained through an agent without meeting the financial requirements or having a Thai bank account. No bank papers needed. Agents charge a lot for the visa and extension, but it seems to work well, and not having to deal with immigration is worth it to many people.

 

But it’s clearly against the immigration rules. I suppose it’s not corruption until translated into English.

 

I recently used such an agent for the Non-O visa. I have 800k on deposit but was tired of dealing with immigration. I could not find an agent to do it the legitimate way with bank papers.

 

But what are the risks? It may be a valid visa, but my Non-O was issued by an immigration office in another province. Huh?? That is concerning. But now I’m thick as thieves with my agent so I’m reluctant not to use them for the 1-year extension and 90-day reports.

 

I’d like to start spending down the 800k (so convenient to pay rent and other stuff with the bank’s app), but how risky is this? Assuming the status quo, I would just continue with the agent. But if someone important wanted to bust up this racket…how likely is that and what are the risks? Immigration Detention? Fine? Blacklisting? Any live examples of someone getting into trouble?

[scubascuba3]

If you want to continue using the agent you don't even need the 800k. If you want to go legit, comply with the financials for at least a year prior to your next extension. The agent method is obviously a risk but you are basically a VIP if you go that route

[from the home of CC]

29 minutes ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

I suppose it’s not corruption until translated into English.

and that's a cop out for it certainly is corruption and if you offer the bribe (through a middle man or not) you have committed an offence punishable by prison (enforced or not). Personally, I was influenced to better than this by my now deceased parents and that alone absolves the justification in breaking the law (no matter what country I reside in) 

[cclub75]

Do not touch the money.

 

Plausible deniability.

 

If things goes... awry (for the agent and/or the "special canal" is using)... Then you can always invoke good faith by proving (With bank book and letter from the bank) that you have always respected the money clause, aka the rule (for retirement extension, we all agree that it is the main rule).

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by cclub75

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

only ever heard this typical common arrangement unravelling when “ retiree” went direct to their Local Imm. for the 90 day reporting (instead of paying original successful agent to do it) for their Out of Area Visa / Extention........ 

[Scouse123]

Sounds like something I really wouldn't want to get involved in and thankfully never had the need to

 

No way would I judge but when the stuff hits the fan, the immigration officers just get moved to another post, I don't know what happens to the unfortunate foreigner, who will take the fall.

[Regyai]

Ive personally no dog in this fight

 

But this, in various incarnations has gone on for many years

 

Seldom any repercussions of note save for the occasional (naturally short lived) kamizaki agents exercising fake visa stamps

[scubascuba3]

The only issue I've read about is if moving province and a different immigration office, some may be sticklers and will look at the history.

 

Remember Big Joke tried to stop it, well he was taken down

Edited June 15, 2021 by scubascuba3

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

But it’s clearly against the immigration rules. I suppose it’s not corruption until translated into English.

This has been covered before on another couple of threads, and I wish I could remember which one had the "rules and regulations" printed out, which basically said that the Chief Immigration Officer of the office concerned has the authority to grant a retirement extension, irrespective of the financial circumstances of the applicant, or words to that effect. I.e. It is his decision and his alone in cases like this.

 

It was discussed in great detail and apparently this is the case.

 

If you want to do some searching on this website, then you will find it.

[clivebaxter]

3 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

only ever heard this typical common arrangement unravelling when “ retiree” went direct to their Local Imm. for the 90 day reporting (instead of paying original successful agent to do it) for their Out of Area Visa / Extention........ 

That is the problem they don't let on about, you are shackled the agent paying a bribe to upcountry offices. So to avoid trouble you have to go through that route for 90 day reports etc. Go yourself to the office at the province you live in and the first thing they will want to know is how you got an extension from a province you don't live in. 

While people argue that it's not illegal for an officer to ignore the money requirements, even when paid to, I fail to see how getting an extension from a province you don't live in can be legal. I imagine you are OK if your office is one that the agent use.

Edited June 15, 2021 by clivebaxter

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

yes, Retirement Visa / Extn/ Reports / Financials / Agent etc. is a common big topic causing many problems & unacceptable for many.......for various reasons......

 

ED Visa , with legit language school as “agent”,  IF issued by your local Imm. office, is fully legal with no financials, no dodgy agent, no class attendance. 90 day ED visa extentions (with Imm. Photo Visits) instead of 90 day reports. people wrongly say you must attend classes . no, visa gives “option” to study. total cost for 12 months only ( original 3 month visa plus 3 x 3 month extns.) about B47k.

“Illegal” RET Visa with Agent / Agent Reports/ No Financials / Diff. Area, is typically 25k to 50k. (15 mths though).

 

Some people, like self- employed, are not continuously retired or resident, but still perhaps having property / family here, so might need a longstay visa only every 4-5 years, so dont want to meet the RET restrictive financials, so ED Visa ideal & legal. Can still get 5 Year DLT, Yellow Book, Pink ID with ED & any longstay visa. Dont actually need any visa to legally stay here, own property or own vehicle here...

VOLenteer Visas have also no financials so might also be considered..... 

[nightfox]

1 hour ago, clivebaxter said:

, I fail to see how getting an extension from a province you don't live in can be legal.

Visa agents work hand and hand with specific immigration offices.  I used an agent last year for my marriage visa extension which was in another province then my local immigration office as my agent doesn't work with them.

 

The agent handled all the paperwork and the stamp in my passport is real and legal just like yours as I and my wife were in front of the IO when he stamped it.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

The only issue I've read about is if moving province and a different immigration office, some may be sticklers and will look at the history.

The OP already stated the Non O was issued by an IO from a different Province than where he resides. That problem 1.

[Tanoshi]

50 minutes ago, nightfox said:

The agent handled all the paperwork and the stamp in my passport is real and legal just like yours as I and my wife were in front of the IO when he stamped it.

You can only apply for an extension in the Province where you registered your place of residence (TM30). If it was issued in a different Province then they used an address in that Province - do you known that address and obviously you've now registered a false address to your actual place of residence.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

This has been covered before on another couple of threads, and I wish I could remember which one had the "rules and regulations" printed out, which basically said that the Chief Immigration Officer of the office concerned has the authority to grant a retirement extension, irrespective of the financial circumstances of the applicant, or words to that effect. I.e. It is his decision and his alone in cases like this.

 

It was discussed in great detail and apparently this is the case.

There are those that would have you believe that is the case, it is not.

 

This is the actual regulation wording.

327/2557

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

 

1. The rank of Inspector (not a standard IO) may pass it to the Commander for consideration.

2. Only one Commander and he isn't based at any office you'd apply at.

3. Couldn't be issued same day if the application has to sent for consideration.

 

The only 'consideration' is the applicable fee of the IO to circumvent the requirements.

 

[piston broke]

 

Every retirement extension is signed off by the chief immigration officer at the office the where application is made, regardless if the applicant does the extension themselves or uses an agent ....

 

He's the boss - if he's happy with the application / paperwork and signs it off - it's done and dusted...... End of ...

.

 

[Tanoshi]

7 hours ago, SEAsia Traveler said:

But now I’m thick as thieves with my agent so I’m reluctant not to use them for the 1-year extension and 90-day reports.

You don't have much choice for the extension as it has to applied for from the same office that issued the Non O.

 

If you file a new TM30 at your local IO (because they used a fake address in that different Province) then you can submit the 90 day reports yourself at your local IO.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, piston broke said:

 

Every retirement extension is signed off by the chief immigration officer at the office the where application is made, regardless if the applicant does the extension themselves or uses an agent ....

 

He's the boss - if he's happy with the application / paperwork and signs it off - it's done and dusted...... End of ...

.

 

He's not authorised to sign them off if you don't meet the financial requirements.

He wouldn't sign it off anyway, that's what his stooges are for.

If it ever backfires his signature won't be found.

 

[clivebaxter]

9 hours ago, nightfox said:

Visa agents work hand and hand with specific immigration offices.  I used an agent last year for my marriage visa extension which was in another province then my local immigration office as my agent doesn't work with them.

 

The agent handled all the paperwork and the stamp in my passport is real and legal just like yours as I and my wife were in front of the IO when he stamped it.

So as the law states an extension must be obtained from the province you live in, and your agent colluded with an immigration office in another province to provide one for a bribe, you really consider that process legal? Have you done 90 day reports at your legitimate office since?

Edited June 16, 2021 by clivebaxter

[Tanoshi]

29 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

So as the law states an extension must be obtained from the province you live in, and your agent colluded with an immigration office in another province to provide one for a bribe, you really consider that process legal?

As I understand the OP's post, he's only got the Non O as of yet and already having issues with the agent.

 

31 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

Have you done 90 day reports at your legitimate office since?

Obviously he won't be able to, having received his extension in a different Province.

Either forced to pay the agent to submit them in the different Province, or file a new TM30 at his own Immigration office to submit them himself there.

[nightfox]

9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You can only apply for an extension in the Province where you registered your place of residence (TM30). If it was issued in a different Province then they used an address in that Province - do you known that address and obviously you've now registered a false address to your actual place of residence.

I don't think you understand the logic of using visa agents as changing your address in another province is part of the process they do to get your visa and yes immigration know about it as again they work together with the agents.

[Ron jeremy]

This has gone on for ages.

envelopes are exchanged, paperwork is done correctly, stamps are legit, and everyone is happy!

it’s Thailand, money rules. 

[nightfox]

1 hour ago, clivebaxter said:

So as the law states an extension must be obtained from the province you live in, and your agent colluded with an immigration office in another province to provide one for a bribe, you really consider that process legal? Have you done 90 day reports at your legitimate office since?

Do you understand the fundamentals of using a visa agent? They are money fixers for people that cant meet the financial requirements to extend their visa as I don't think you realize there are lots of guys all over Thailand that use agents for that purpose, most are for retirement extensions, especially in Pattaya and Bangkok.

 

Visa agents work together with immigration like a orchestrated symphony. They all know each other and all get a slice of the pie. Like it or not visa agents have been in Thailand forever and are not going anywhere as all I care about is that my extension stamp is legit just like yours which it is. I don't need to leave my house for a 90 days report as for an extra 1,000 bht for the year, I get the receipt slip just like yours stamped from immigration delivered to my mail box every 90 days.

 

 

[clivebaxter]

32 minutes ago, nightfox said:

Do you understand the fundamentals of using a visa agent? They are money fixers for people that cant meet the financial requirements to extend their visa as I don't think you realize there are lots of guys all over Thailand that use agents for that purpose, most are for retirement extensions, especially in Pattaya and Bangkok.

 

Visa agents work together with immigration like a orchestrated symphony. They all know each other and all get a slice of the pie. Like it or not visa agents have been in Thailand forever and are not going anywhere as all I care about is that my extension stamp is legit just like yours which it is. I don't need to leave my house for a 90 days report as for an extra 1,000 bht for the year, I get the receipt slip just like yours stamped from immigration delivered to my mail box every 90 days.

 

 

Just because people get away with it does not make it legal. Getting an extension from a province you do not live in is clearly illegal. Visa gents paying IO is not a symphony it's corruption. If you think your extension is legit I suggest you go into your real immigration office and ask them if it is, and if you can continue to get it from elsewhere. You cannot leave your house to get the 90 day report at your local office even if you wanted to, that would be a real problem for you as the orchestrated evasion of the law would unravel.

[clivebaxter]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

As I understand the OP's post, he's only got the Non O as of yet and already having issues with the agent.

 

Obviously he won't be able to, having received his extension in a different Province.

Either forced to pay the agent to submit them in the different Province, or file a new TM30 at his own Immigration office to submit them himself there.

I thought it was a TM28 to report a new address? in any case you cannot keep doing that every time you get an extension under the table from another province

[nightfox]

36 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

Just because people get away with it does not make it legal. Getting an extension from a province you do not live in is clearly illegal. Visa gents paying IO is not a symphony it's corruption. If you think your extension is legit I suggest you go into your real immigration office and ask them if it is, and if you can continue to get it from elsewhere. You cannot leave your house to get the 90 day report at your local office even if you wanted to, that would be a real problem for you as the orchestrated evasion of the law would unravel.

 

37 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

Just because people get away with it does not make it legal. Getting an extension from a province you do not live in is clearly illegal. Visa gents paying IO is not a symphony it's corruption. If you think your extension is legit I suggest you go into your real immigration office and ask them if it is, and if you can continue to get it from elsewhere. You cannot leave your house to get the 90 day report at your local office even if you wanted to, that would be a real problem for you as the orchestrated evasion of the law would unravel.

The only thing I know that's legal is my stamp in my passport which you can deny the authenticity all you want as I left Thailand last year and came back to Thailand with that stamp in my passport and guess what.......Airport immigration didn't question it.

 

Also why would I go to my local immigration to get my 90 days when I'm registered in another province. Anybody can use an agent anywhere in Thailand to get them their 90 day report. Its called convenience.

 

As some other person said this has gone on for ages, envelopes are exchanged, paperwork is done correctly, stamps are legit, and everyone is happy!

it’s Thailand, like it or not money rules.

[xylophone]

11 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

There are those that would have you believe that is the case, it is not.

 

This is the actual regulation wording.

327/2557

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

 

1. The rank of Inspector (not a standard IO) may pass it to the Commander for consideration.

2. Only one Commander and he isn't based at any office you'd apply at.

3. Couldn't be issued same day if the application has to sent for consideration.

 

The only 'consideration' is the applicable fee of the IO to circumvent the requirements.

 

Thanks for the actual wording Tanoshi, and although I don't use this process, as I put the required amount in the bank, I do see a loophole in it, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

It says that the, "the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Police or an authorised competent officer for further consideration of the aliens application".

 

And the "authorised competent officer" can be based anywhere (in the same office perhaps) even in the I/O that one visits, so it does seem possible that the process could be done there?

 

I don't know enough about what happens as regards the 90 day reports, so I'll stay out of that.
 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

And the "authorised competent officer" can be based anywhere (in the same office perhaps) even in the I/O that one visits, so it does seem possible that the process could be done there?

It is normally done at the division level of immigration or higher. In a way the article in the immigration order it emplies it is done at at higher level of immigration.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“legal” is irrelevant; “valid” is all that matters, i.e. on Imm. data base when searched by Imm. at airports or offices. Agent system made by Imm. Its a business, people, as is whole Visa set up here....

Many agents are Imm. officers, just out of uniform !

Also Imm. “ laws” are clearly flexible & circumventable by Imm. “concessions”......

how Imm. concessions made also irrelevant.......this- is- thailand ! (apologies to G. Butler)

If you still insist to be fully legal but choose not to have  a RET visa, get an ED visa.......

[Tanoshi]

7 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Also Imm. “ laws” are clearly flexible & circumventable by Imm. “concessions”......

Can you provide a link to these legal Immigration 'concessions'.

 

7 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

If you still insist to be fully legal but choose not to have  a RET visa, get an ED visa......

What's a RET Visa?