Pattaya tourism and business sector tell government “Let us open the city fully, give us the Covid-19 vaccines. Enough is Enough.”

[impulse]

14 hours ago, tandor said:

...so who do you think in their right mind would want to come here..it is not safe..and wont be for quite a few years.

 

I'm fully vaccinated.  So are 50%+ of my compatriots.  I'd come in a minute if there were no major hoops to jump through.   I'd be safe, and so would the people who come in contact with me.

 

There is a lot of pent up travel demand.

 

[SW Happy]

On 6/22/2021 at 4:11 PM, GeorgeCross said:

 

the other 99% of thailand (that doesn't sell beer or p*ssy) begs to differ.

 

f f s prioritize those who risk their lives, not their wallets.

 

 

This is Thailand. Money is God.

[chaihot]

16 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Well, but now here's the question:

Where to take the vaccines from? 

Thailand's soldiers ordered them too late and even the wrong ineffective ones. 

They ordered Biontech. Astra, Moderna or Johnson. 

However, there is a long way to go between orders and deliveries. 

Maybe early 2022 if you're lucky ????

 

Yes, but we are not allowed to talk about *WHY* the government "ordered too late" ... had the Thai government budgeted the money immediately and starting buying when other countries did -- we would see a different vaccination level in Thailand.  

 

As I said before -- why is it that people with the money to pay for whatever vaccine they choose are STILL NOT ABLE to get vaccinated?  I think the story is telling ... 

[Rampant Rabbit]

They  just dont understand how tirelessly  hard the government has been working to do this,  poor  lambs, maybe those reducation camps  could reopen though personally I think its  time for an uprising.

[Keesters]

23 hours ago, Crusader said:

All for places re-opening, but the problem is that people just DO NOT FOLLOW set procedures for social distancing etc.  After the last lockdown, when my local pub re-opened it was only a few days before all the "no-sitting" seats were being used, people were not checking temperature when going in (and no one checking this either) and not a lot of hand sanitiser being used.

Agree. Same goes for all the big noses poking out of masks. People just don't have respect. 

[Keesters]

23 hours ago, chaihot said:

 

According to the WHO:
Temperature screening alone, at exit or entry, is not an effective way to stop international spread, since infected individuals may be in incubation period, may not express apparent symptoms early on in the course of the disease, or may dissimulate fever through the use of antipyretics;

 

It is an outward "feel good" method of making it look like something is being done.  Similar to not allowing NAIL CLIPPERS on airplanes.

And for every negative MAY there's a positive one. Temperature checking CAN be an effective way to stop spread. 

[Leaver]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

I'd be safe, and so would the people who come in contact with me.

 

 

Wrong.

 

Vaccinated people that came in contact with you would be safe, but unvaccinated people could still catch covid from you and get sick and / or die.  

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Wrong.

 

Vaccinated people that came in contact with you would be safe, but unvaccinated people could still catch covid from you and get sick and / or die.  

 

Or they may get it from a migrant worker, or my taxi from the airport may run them over, or I may give them the flu or...or...or...

 

As a vaccinated person, I'm less likely to give someone Covid than any random person they'd meet on the street who never set foot outside of Thailand.  And if I take a Covid test before my flight, a lot less likely.

 

If you want 100% safety, it's gonna be a long and hungry shutdown.

 

[Leaver]

17 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Or they may get it from a migrant worker, or my taxi from the airport may run them over, or I may give them the flu or...or...or...

 

As a vaccinated person, I'm less likely to give someone Covid than any random person they'd meet on the street who never set foot outside of Thailand.  And if I take a Covid test before my flight, a lot less likely.

 

If you want 100% safety, it's gonna be a long and hungry shutdown.

 

 

Nothing is 100%.

 

You are correct, you pose less risk, because you have been vaccinated, but you are still a risk to the unvaccinated. 

 

Two vaccinated people in contact with each other is the lowest risk currently on offer, and should be enough for countries to open up when 70% of their citizens have been vaccinated. 

 

If you look in the UK now, they have thousands of new covid cases a day, with over 50% of them being vaccinated people.    

[Scott]

Troll post and reply removed.

 

[impulse]

20 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Nothing is 100%.

 

You are correct, you pose less risk, because you have been vaccinated, but you are still a risk to the unvaccinated. 

 

You're a bigger risk to others than I'd be (assuming you're in Thailand and unvaccinated).  Ponder that one...

 

It would be one thing if Thailand were sterile and the disease wasn't already prevalent.  But that horse bolted when they left the borders open to illegal migrant workers.  Seems like the only ones they're keeping out are cashed up, legal tourists, millions of whom have been vaccinated and therefore safer to be around than the 95%+ of locals who haven't been.

 

Another way to look at that is, if I took a Covid test today, hopped on an airplane tomorrow and landed in Thailand on Saturday, being around me (and my sweaty tourist cash) would be safer than being around 98% of the Thai people on the Airport train into BKK.  You may catch Covid from someone on that ARL train, but it wouldn't be from me or my tourist bucks.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by impulse

[Leaver]

18 minutes ago, impulse said:

You're a bigger risk to others than I'd be (assuming you're in Thailand and unvaccinated).  Ponder that one...

 

Yes, I am in Pattaya, and currently unvaccinated. 

 

You are correct, I am a bigger risk to an unvaccinated person than you are, but you are still a risk to the unvaccinated here.

 

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

It would be one thing if Thailand were sterile and the disease wasn't already prevalent.  But that horse bolted when they left the borders open to illegal migrant workers.  Seems like the only ones they're keeping out are cashed up, legal tourists, millions of whom have been vaccinated and therefore safer to be around than the 95%+ of locals who haven't been.

 

I've posted the maths before. 

 

If only 0.01% of vaccinated tourists were carrying covid and were asymptomatic on the plane to Thailand, with hundreds of planes landing, that's hundreds of positive cases entering Thailand and spreading all across Thailand. 

 

Even the small percentages pose a risk when in high volumes.

 

23 minutes ago, impulse said:

Another way to look at that is, if I took a Covid test today, hopped on an airplane tomorrow and landed in Thailand on Saturday,

 

You are forgetting about "the window period" in which you test negative, but are actually infected.  

    

[impulse]

18 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You are forgetting about "the window period" in which you test negative, but are actually infected.  

 

Every single person you run into in Thailand presents a risk.  A bigger risk than a legal, vaccinated, tested tourist.

 

Would you rather be on a train with 100 vaccinated, tested tourists, or would you rather be on a train with 100 unvaccinated, untested locals?

 

Sure, 1 out of a thousand vaccinated, tested tourists may come in with a case of Covid, increasing the new cases from 3000 per day to 3005 per day.  So what?  Is that 1/10 of 1% increase in new cases worth destroying the economy?

 

In the meantime, the economy is being devastated and people are going broke and hungry...

 

Edit:  Thailand had a good case for shutting down tourism when nobody coming in was vaccinated, and local cases were 10-20 a day. I see today it's over 4000 new cases, and millions of vaccinated, tested tourists are looking for a place to spend some sweaty tourist money.  Even if a dozen tourists a day slipped through the testing and came in with Covid, what's the difference between 4000 new cases and 4012 new cases?  Insignificant.  And they won't need beds- they're vaccinated.  What the difference between tourist money and no tourist money?  Economic devastation and ruined lives.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by impulse

[Leaver]

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

Every single person you run into in Thailand presents a risk.  A bigger risk than a legal, vaccinated, tested tourist.

 

That why 70% of Thai's have to be vaccinated as well, like you are, to pose less of a risk to each other first, then tourist can come to Thailand where anyone who comes here poses no risk of sickness and death to them.

 

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

Would you rather be on a train with 100 vaccinated, tested tourists, or would you rather be on a train with 100 unvaccinated, untested locals?

 

I would simply rather I be vaccinated, so nether group, or individual on the train could kill me.  

 

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

Sure, 1 out of a thousand vaccinated, tested tourists may come in with a case of Covid, increasing the new cases from 3000 per day to 3005 per day.  So what?  Is that 1/10 of 1% increase in new cases worth destroying the economy?

 

 

If the tourists had free movement around Thailand, then the areas where the new case were would spread,  putting pressure on Thailand's medical system.  

 

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

In the meantime, the economy is being devastated and people are going broke and hungry...

 

Every country's economy has taken a big hit.  Thailand has the money to feed its unemployed people, but they just don't care.     

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Leaver

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

If the tourists had free movement around Thailand, then the areas where the news case were would spread,  putting pressure on Thailand's medical system.  

  

Covid infected people already have free movement around Thailand.  You can see that in the 4000+ new cases today.  Letting in vaccinated, tested legal tourists isn't going to increase anyone's risk of getting Covid.

 

Once again, explain to me the difference between 4000 new cases and (maybe) 4012 new cases a day...  Contrast that with the economic devastation wrought by the tourism shutdown.

 

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

Letting in vaccinated, tested legal tourists isn't going to increase anyone's risk of getting Covid.

 

Wrong.

 

We've been through this, and you agreed, that even at 0.01% of tourist coming in, it would still be inviting covid into Thailand.   

 

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

Once again, explain to me the difference between 4000 new cases and (maybe) 4012 new cases a day... 

 

Easy. 

 

That's 12 infected tourists having contact with unvaccinated airport staff, taxi drivers, hotel reception, waitresses, shop assistants, bar girls, massage girls, other customers in various establishments etc.  These people then have contact others, and it goes on and on, eventually reaching mama and papa, or grandmama and grandpapa, or an elder expat retiree, and they could die from it.  

 

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

As a vaccinated person, I'm less likely to give someone

Despite what you appear to think.... it isn't all about you.

[impulse]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Despite what you appear to think.... it isn't all about you.

 

No, it's about the millions of broke and hungry Thais.  I'm just an example of the millions of vaccinated tourists who would spend some of our tourist dollars in Thailand without adding one iota of risk to the poopstorm that's already happening.

 

Quick question...  In the months they've allowed tourists in, how many vaccinated (and even unvaccinated) have brought in cases of Covid, and how would that impact a country that's already seeing 4000 cases a day among people who have never left Thailand?  Maybe a dozen cases in tens of thousands of arrivals?  So, instead of 4000 cases a day, they may have 4002.  Maybe 4005.  Big, scary whoop.

 

Then another question.  How is the lack of tourists affecting the lives and financial futures of the Thai people?

 

As I said above, when nobody anywhere was vaccinated and Thailand was having 10 cases a day, the tourist lockdown made sense.  Tourists were more dangerous than the locals.  Now, with tourists vaccinated and tested, and Covid running rampant among Thais, vaccinated, tested tourists are less dangerous than the average Thai.

 

Vaccinated, tested farangs would be the safest people you could hang out with in all of Thailand.   And we would come with a much needed injection of foreign loot.  But it seems that a lot of the posters here have drunk from the "dirty farang" kool-aid. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by impulse

[impulse]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

11 hours ago, impulse said:

Once again, explain to me the difference between 4000 new cases and (maybe) 4012 new cases a day... 

 

Easy. 

 

That's 12 infected tourists having contact with unvaccinated airport staff, taxi drivers, hotel reception, waitresses, shop assistants, bar girls, massage girls, other customers in various establishments etc.  These people then have contact others, and it goes on and on, eventually reaching mama and papa, or grandmama and grandpapa, or an elder expat retiree, and they could die from it.  

 

You don't get it.  Those people are already at risk, doing their jobs on, and surrounded by ordinary Thai people.  They'd be safer eliminating all the Thai people on their schedule and just dealing with vaccinated, tested tourists.  Not 100% safe.  Nothing is.  But they're safer serving vaccinated, tested tourists than anyone else they serve. 

 

Unless they want to crawl under a rock and starve, and let Granny starve.

 

The latest testing numbers I've seen indicate that ordinary Thai people are testing about 5% positive.  Between 3% and 12% seems typical.  Vaccinated, pre-tested, tourists may test 0.1% positive.  Who would you prefer to sit next to on the MRT?  Who would you rather have as a guest in your hotel or restaurant?  

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by impulse

[chaihot]

15 hours ago, Keesters said:

And for every negative MAY there's a positive one. Temperature checking CAN be an effective way to stop spread. 

 

Quote

“It’s something you can do, and it makes you feel like you’re doing something,” he said. “But it won’t catch most people who are spreading Covid.”

--Dr. David Thomas, an infectious disease specialist at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine

 

I have NEVER had my temperature checked in the USA when entering buildings, restaurants, offices, retail stores, or anywhere else.

 

Just like the "face shield" *AND* mask requirements in the Philippines.  

 

Quote

“What do all countries that have controlled COVID have in common? They never required face shields,” Lasco said

 

 

When we continue to pile on more rules and requirements, people stop caring.  Philippines is the perfect example of stupidity run wild.  This is the country that required people driving to the mall in cars to leave every other space empty in the parking garage ... social distancing at its best.

 

The point is -- temperature checking is not an effective way to stop the spread.  Ask any expat who sweats their ass off walking or wearing a helmet on a motorbike and then can't get into the store or mall because they "are hot".  

 

"Temperature screening for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is thought to have little down side, but in practice it does little to prevent the spread of the virus."  NIH

Edited June 24, 2021 by chaihot

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

Quick question...  In the months they've allowed tourists in, how many vaccinated (and even unvaccinated) have brought in cases of Covid,

Many many, it is a daily event that people arrive in Thailand and are put into quarantine, then test positive, despite arriving with negative test paperwork. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by jacko45k

[ExpatOilWorker]

 

[impulse]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Many many, it is a daily event that people arrive in Thailand and are put into quarantine, then test positive, despite arriving with negative test paperwork. 

 

I'd still rather be sitting next to a vaccinated, tested tourist (VTT) than next to a random local or expat who, if you believe the scant test data, has about a 5% chance of being positive.  And the VTT's are the ones who are going to bring their foreign loot to resurrect the Thai tourism economy.  Or not...

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by impulse

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I'd still rather be sitting next to a vaccinated, tested tourist (VTT) than next to a random local or expat who, if you believe the scant test data, has about a 5% chance of being positive.  And the VTT's are the ones who are going to bring their foreign loot to resurrect the Thai tourism economy.  Or not...

 

I simply answered your question....

Myself, as a random, local, Expat, will not be mixing with all these random tourists from all over the world, just yet. I hope they contain the experiment in Phuket.

[Keesters]

15 hours ago, chaihot said:

 

 

I have NEVER had my temperature checked in the USA when entering buildings, restaurants, offices, retail stores, or anywhere else.

 

Just like the "face shield" *AND* mask requirements in the Philippines.  

 

 

When we continue to pile on more rules and requirements, people stop caring.  Philippines is the perfect example of stupidity run wild.  This is the country that required people driving to the mall in cars to leave every other space empty in the parking garage ... social distancing at its best.

 

The point is -- temperature checking is not an effective way to stop the spread.  Ask any expat who sweats their ass off walking or wearing a helmet on a motorbike and then can't get into the store or mall because they "are hot".  

 

"Temperature screening for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is thought to have little down side, but in practice it does little to prevent the spread of the virus."  NIH

 

And yet Thailand that has temperature screening and mask wearing has had far less covid than USA. So much for freedom. 

I have never been refused entry to a store because I'm hot after riding my scooter in high 30 degree heat fully helmeted and masked. Never seen anyone refused. Your premise is pure BS. 

[Leaver]

22 hours ago, impulse said:

You don't get it.

 

No, you don't get it.

 

More risk on top of risk equals a greater risk.  Simple.

 

22 hours ago, impulse said:

They'd be safer eliminating all the Thai people on their schedule and just dealing with vaccinated, tested tourists. 

 

Not if they haven't been vaccinated themselves.

 

22 hours ago, impulse said:

But they're safer serving vaccinated, tested tourists than anyone else they serve. 

 

True, but not as safe as vaccinated people serving vaccinated tourists.   

 

22 hours ago, impulse said:

Unless they want to crawl under a rock and starve, and let Granny starve.

 

It's up to the Thai government to take care of its citizens, not tourists.

 

22 hours ago, impulse said:

The latest testing numbers I've seen indicate that ordinary Thai people are testing about 5% positive.  Between 3% and 12% seems typical.  Vaccinated, pre-tested, tourists may test 0.1% positive.  Who would you prefer to sit next to on the MRT?  Who would you rather have as a guest in your hotel or restaurant?  

 

Your maths misses the part where one of the 0.01% of vaccinated tourists who is infected passes it on to someone else, who has contact with several other people, who they infect, who have contact with several over people, who they infect etc etc. All starting from one of the 0.01% of vaccinated tourists who enter whilst infected, despite being vaccinated.    

 

 

[chaihot]

8 hours ago, Keesters said:

Your premise is pure BS. 

You have a great way with words.  You must be a wonderful person to talk to.  

 

My premise was based on experience and personal conversations.  I didn't attack your "premise" with obscenity -- I provided links that support why I believe it wasn't accurate.  

 

But thanks ... I'm finished discussing this with you.  

[GeorgeCross]

On 6/24/2021 at 8:13 PM, impulse said:

Quick question...  In the months they've allowed tourists in, how many vaccinated (and even unvaccinated) have brought in cases of Covid

 

i read 3% the other day but that seems high now i think about it. anyone have any data on this?

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by GeorgeCross

[impulse]

27 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

its running at about 3% positive for arrivals in state and private quarantine if gov figures are to be believed, but vaccination is not a requirement to come through the ASQ system

 

As I recall, Thais aren't even required to be tested before they hop on their repatriation flight.  Or is that my tendency toward wingnut conspiracy skewing my memory?  (I find it hard to believe that 3% of the people who test negative one day test positive in the next few days, but I've been surprised before)

 

My main point is that vaccinated, tested tourists (VTTs) are the least likely people in all of Thailand to be contagious.  And locking them (and their tourist cash) out is a stupid idea when the disease is already rampant in Thailand and they're not keeping out indigent migrants.

 

It was a good idea when no tourists were vaccinated, fast testing was unsophisticated, and Thailand had virtually no virus among the population.  They may have stopped the spread with border lockdowns.  But they blew that with migrant workers going back and forth. 

 

Nowadays, the safest customer in any hotel, restaurant or other venue is a vaccinated tourist who's been tested before the flight.  And tested again after arrival.  And again.  All the local customers are dodgy in comparison.  No offense meant- it's just the numbers.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by impulse

[Leaver]

23 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

As I recall, Thais aren't even required to be tested before they hop on their repatriation flight.  Or is that my tendency toward wingnut conspiracy skewing my memory?  (I find it hard to believe that 3% of the people who test negative one day test positive in the next few days, but I've been surprised before)

 

My main point is that vaccinated, tested tourists (VTT) are the least likely people in all of Thailand to be contagious.  And locking them (and their tourist cash) out is a stupid idea when the disease is already rampant in Thailand and they're not keeping out indigent migrants.

 

It was a good idea when no tourists were vaccinated, fast testing was unsophisticated, and Thailand had virtually no virus among the population.  They may have stopped the spread with border lockdowns.  But they blew that with migrant workers going back and forth.  Nowadays, the safest customer in any hotel, restaurant or other venue is a vaccinated tourist who's been tested before the flight.  All local customers are dodgy in comparison.  No offense meant- it's just the numbers.

 

 

You've been banging on about how safe you are because you have been vaccinated, despite the science clearly showing vaccinated people can still carry and spread the disease, so I will simply ask a couple of questions to clarify.

 

Since you want to get back here so desperately, would it be acceptable to you that you could come back tomorrow, but everything remains shut here?  Would you be happy with that arrangement?

 

If so, why? Are you a returning expat?  If not, why would you be so concerned about returning to a Pattaya that is not only in lockdown, but economically decimated?  

 

If you could get here tomorrow, what do you think waits you?