Phuket marks first Sandbox tourist infected with COVID-19

[connda]

Just now, connda said:

Just as do Covid-Accepters.  Everybody is tossing around statistics that they heard on their favorite propaganda, errrr, media outlet.
What virtually no one does is to Attribute there assertions with published scientific papers. 
CNN's expert said <blah blah blah>  - Hearsay.
Brietbarts expert said <blah blah blah>  - Hearsay.

Try taking CDC published figures and statistics from linked science studies and forget about the often unnamed experts.  Then attribute the source via your own research and analysis. 

Everybody who tosses around statistics about 'chance of this' and chances of that' <blah blah blah>- on both sides?  Hearsay. If you don't attribute?  It's hearsay. If it's from a so-called 'expert' without attribution to studies.  It's all highly charged hearsay. 

Now people who unquestionably accept the Covid narrative (Covid accepters) as well as those who don't (Covid deniers) can both dislike my what I've said.  I don't care.  You both muddy the already partisan waters with unsubstantiated numbers. 
 

BTW.  "Covid denier" is a pejorative used to discount and dismiss any reasonable questions by those who legitimately have questions about a Covid narrative in which only the one, orthodox, official narrative is allowed to be discussed.  I never have experienced anything like this while in university. Different era I guess.  The basis of scientific thought rested on the premise of open and lively discussions on theory and practice - NOT one side dogma which is promoted with religious zeal, i.e., the heretics must be demonized, shunned, and burned.  Yet we are here.
Right where we have arrived today regarding scientific inquiry?  Very dangerous as only one side of inquiry is allowed.  That is not 'scientific.' Even Einsteinian physics is being questioned. Who is being censored for questioning Einstein's theory?  One one.  Scientific debate is wide open as it should be. Its healthy. And on occasion it leads to unexpected breakthroughs in science.  
Same with theories and practical applications regarding SARS-coV-2.  Censorship simply makes the counter-narratives more plausible. Censorship kills scientific dialogue and turns 'officially accepted theory into dogma.'
 

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, gim12 said:

it would be good to know what brand of vaccine vaccine he had received

Why? With all vaccines there will still be people getting infected.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, connda said:

BTW.  "Covid denier" is a pejorative used to discount and dismiss any reasonable questions by those who legitimately have questions about a Covid narrative in which only the one, orthodox, official narrative is allowed to be discussed.  I never have experienced anything like this while in university. Different era I guess.  The basis of scientific thought rested on the premise of open and lively discussions on theory and practice - NOT one side dogma which is promoted with religious zeal, i.e., the heretics must be demonized, shunned, and burned.  Yet we are here.
Right where we have arrived today regarding scientific inquiry?  Very dangerous as only one side of inquiry is allowed.  That is not 'scientific.' Even Einsteinian physics is being questioned. Who is being censored for questioning Einstein's theory?  One one.  Scientific debate is wide open as it should be. Its healthy. And on occasion it leads to unexpected breakthroughs in science.  
Same with theories and practical applications regarding SARS-coV-2.  Censorship simply makes the counter-narratives more plausible. Censorship kills scientific dialogue and turns 'officially accepted theory into dogma.'
 

Nonsense, in the scientific community there have been plenty of discussions. At the moment the only discussion is how to prevent laymen covid-deniers spreading their dangerous nonsense.

[JCP108]

3 hours ago, Lorry said:

 The mirage of a "false positive" PCR basically doesn't happen. 

These researchers are saying false positives happen...

 

https://journals.lww.com/joem/Fulltext/2021/03000/False_Positive_Results_With_SARS_CoV_2_RT_PCR.23.aspx

 

[impulse]

31 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, in the scientific community there have been plenty of discussions. At the moment the only discussion is how to prevent laymen covid-deniers spreading their dangerous nonsense.

You mean like this one where they say Pfizer is safe for pregnant women and women of child bearing age, even though the vaccine has only been approved since November of last year?   

 

How could they possibly know?  Yet if anyone mentions that the long term effects on the unborn are unknown, they get shut down by the MSM, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, TVF, etc.  You don't even have to say "it's bad".  Just say "it's unknown" and see what happens.

 

https://raisingchildren.net.au/guides/coronavirus-covid-19-guide/covid-19-vaccinations-pregnancy-breastfeeding

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by impulse

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, impulse said:

You mean like this one where they say Pfizer is safe for pregnant women and women of child bearing age, even though the vaccine has only been approved since November of last year?   

 

How could they possibly know?  Yet if anyone mentions that the long term effects on the unborn are unknown, they get shut down by the MSM, Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, TVF, etc.  You don't even have to say "it's bad".  Just say "it's unknown" and see what happens.

 

https://raisingchildren.net.au/guides/coronavirus-covid-19-guide/covid-19-vaccinations-pregnancy-breastfeeding

 

We were talking about covid denying, effects of vaccines are something completely different.

[impulse]

29 minutes ago, stevenl said:

We were talking about covid denying, effects of vaccines are something completely different.

Good point, but it's 2 sides of the same coin if I claim that Covid itself isn't as much of a risk for a woman of child bearing age as the not yet quantified risks to her unborn child.

 

That makes me neither a Covid denier, nor anti-vax.  

 

BTW, what's really under discussion is whether there are false positives to the RT-PCR tests.  Which is a pretty futile discussion when the general population of Thailand is testing 20% positive, and 1/2000 of the tourists test positive.

I feel for "his group", which were all sent into 14 day quarantine.  I hope they're released if they test negative in a day or two.  If they really want some bad press, sending a whole plane to quarantine based on 1 (possibly false) positive would do the trick.

 

Edit:  I'd add that, with 80,000 people in Phuket, testing positive at 20%, if he escaped, he'd bring the active cases on the island from 16,000 to 16,001.  Of course that's tongue in cheek, but sooner or later Thailand needs to get tourism back...  And it'll never be 100% safe.  Ever.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by impulse

[webfact]

First tourist under ‘Phuket Sandbox’ reopening test positive for COVID-19

 

 

Thailand has recorded the first case of COVID-19 among foreign tourists entering the kingdom through the resort island of Phuket under the “Phuket Sandbox” scheme, which has been welcoming fully vaccinated and COVID-negative international arrivals without entering a quarantine since July 1st.

 

A foreign tourist, who flew to Phuket yesterday from Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, tested positive for COVID-19 last night and has been admitted to hospital for treatment, prompting a two-week quarantine of 13 other passengers travelling on the same flight.

 

Phuket provincial health chief Dr Kusak Kukiattikoon said this morning (Wednesday), that the tourist arrived at Phuket international airport at about 12.30pm, after having a swab test upon arrival, and went straight to his hotel to await the result.

 

Phuket Sandbox hotels to suit all budgets

 

Full Story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/first-tourist-under-phuket-sandbox-reopening-test-positive-for-covid-19/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-07-07

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow ASEAN NOW on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[smedly]

most of the focus is on those few coming to Phuket

 

would be intersting to know how many have left Thailand over the last few months, I personally know of at least 10 people who have left or have flights booked to leave, there were a lot of people who were granted free extensions for months to stay here who would have left a long time ago, now that home countries like the UK are getting back to normal I would imagine most of those will be on their way back  

[hotchilli]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

...said the doctor who asked not to be named. “In April, we had infection rates around 10 per cent of people that were tested. Now it is much closer to 20 per cent.”

 

“But in our hospitals, we have people lining up since 3 am to get tested in the morning as we have a limited number of tests. Of those that we do test, there are days when over half are found to be infected.”

 

https://www.thaienquirer.com/29512/thailand-may-have-infection-numbers-3-4-times-higher-than-the-government-declared-total/

 

Meanwhile in the Phuket Sandbox, people are getting their panties in a wad because one of the hundreds (thousands?) of tourists tested positive...  Identified by testing on arrival and whisked off to quarantine.  

 

The link is interesting reading... daily numbers only match those that are recorded with limited testing.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

A foreign tourist, who flew to Phuket yesterday from Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, tested positive for COVID-19 last night and has been admitted to hospital for treatment, prompting a two-week quarantine of 13 other passengers travelling on the same flight.

Not the best of starts... 

[digibum]

21 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

It’s inevitable that infected tourists will slip through the net. That’s the nature of the virus and why there are so many cases in the world. Even vaccinated tourists with pre-departure tests can still carry it abroad. 

 

There will never be zero covid cases. Thailand needs to accept that and figure out how to open the country again.  

AFTER Thailand vaccinated anyone that wants to get vaccinated (with the vaccine of their choice).  
 

Opening up with less than 10% of the population vaccinated is not just irresponsible but unethical.  

I agree, the number will never be 0, but at least give people a fighting chance.  

[digibum]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

I would imagine most of those will be on their way back

Some yes.  However many of those people are digital nomads and people who were living in Thailand on visa runs and various other sketchy tactics.  
 

On Facebook there seems to be a surge in people seeking “volunteer” visas with no obligation to actually do any volunteer work.  

[MajorTom]

Regarding false positive PCR tests: Not all PCR tests are the same. Its depending on cycles or amplitude. The more cycles you run, the risk of false positive will raise exponentially. There is no universal standard for this, its different in every country. Probably also different internal practice.

So i guess both those who claim its 0,1% and those at 4,5% could be theoretically correct. I don't know what threshold Thailand uses.

[digibum]

21 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Thailand is so heavily reliant on tourism

Parts of Thailand are heavily reliant on tourism.  Vast portions of Thailand’s economy have nothing to do with tourism.  
 

The most damaging period during this whole Covid thing was when they locked down last year and virtually the entire country was out of work.  
 

At this point, most mom and pop level tourism related businesses are already decimated and unlikely to return.  The damage is already done.  
 

Most of the Thai workers have already gone back to their villages and are working in lower paying jobs back home.  
 

So really, all this talk about “helping Thai people” is really about the larger businesses.  It’s about people like Bill Heinecke (Minor Group - major hotel owner) who <deleted> and moan in the media about tourism.  It’s about the people who put out the propaganda about most hotels not having enough cash to survive 3 months, six months ago, and then the same survey results again this month.  

Don’t get me wrong, yes, people are suffering.  But don’t be fooled into thinking anybody cares about some room maid from Myanmar and whether or not she has enough money to feed her family.  
 

All of the crocodile tears being shed about the lack of tourists is about hotel operators and real estate developers who have nobody to sell to.  
 

Any and all concern is 100% about the wealthy who are seeing their fortunes and stock prices impacted.  

[digibum]

19 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

According to CNBC, "The UAE’s vaccination campaign, one of the fastest in the world, has relied heavily on the Sinopharm shot." However, there have been concerns over its efficacy and talk of people requiring a third, booster dose.

And the sad part is the Thai government has painted itself into a corner.  
 

They can’t restrict travelers who have the Chinese vaccines (which everyone knows are inferior) because they’ve been pushing them in Thailand.  
 

To cut off people who have the Chinese vaccines means admitting the government botched their vaccine plan AND angering the Chinese government.  

[club]

9 minutes ago, digibum said:

And the sad part is the Thai government has painted itself into a corner.  
 

They can’t restrict travelers who have the Chinese vaccines (which everyone knows are inferior) because they’ve been pushing them in Thailand.  
 

To cut off people who have the Chinese vaccines means admitting the government botched their vaccine plan AND angering the Chinese government.  

They all but admitted it by saying they will use the USA donation of 1.5 mil jabs as boosters with  Pfizer on  health workers that got 2 jabs of Sinovac. So what happens to Other people that also got 2 jabs of Sinovac including the many in Phuket?

[digibum]

14 minutes ago, club said:

They all but admitted it by saying they will use the USA donation of 1.5 mil jabs as boosters with  Pfizer on  health workers that got 2 jabs of Sinovac. So what happens to Other people that also got 2 jabs of Sinovac including the many in Phuket?

That’s precisely my point.  
 

They will never admit they gave everyone a minimally effective vaccine and if those people get Covid, we’ll, sucks for them, but at least nobody in power will ever admit fault.  
 

In order to keep the charade going and bolster their ability to deflect blame, they’ll keep giving the Chinese vaccine even if they know it’s inferior.  
 

To suddenly stop using the Chinese vaccine would raise uncomfortable questions nobody wants to answer.   
 

So better to keep jabbing people with something you know isn’t effective rather than lose face.  

[Stargeezr]

Flus have been around forever, COVID has been around less than 2 years. Meanwhile on this forum we have such experts

that say just learn to live with it.  Well I know that even the regular flus kill people. I also know for certain that over 4 million 

world wide has died from COVID, and many are still dying every day. Mostly unvaccinated people are getting infected and many of them are 

dying. In some countries there are still hundreds per day dying, like in Indonesia, Brazil, India, etc. , yet still the experts on this

forum are saying live with it.  Considering how many people around the world still will not get vaccinated, even if it is available to them

disgusts me.   In America there are states that have low numbers of their people vaccinated. Same in my country Canada, and I hope that 

they will not be able to leave their home country by any means if they refuse to vaccinate themselves.  I do hope that all countries in

the world tell that to their people. No vaccination, no foreign travel, Period.

Geezer

[digibum]

1 minute ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I do hope that all countries in

the world tell that to their people. No vaccination, no foreign travel, Period.

Actually, it should be the destination country that makes that decision.  
 

It’s rather unfair for Thailand to have to accept antivax’ers simply because their home country doesn’t enforce a no-travel policy.  
 

Thailand should be able to say, “No shoes, no shirt, no shot, no entry”  

[club]

12 minutes ago, digibum said:

That’s precisely my point.  
 

They will never admit they gave everyone a minimally effective vaccine and if those people get Covid, we’ll, sucks for them, but at least nobody in power will ever admit fault.  
 

In order to keep the charade going and bolster their ability to deflect blame, they’ll keep giving the Chinese vaccine even if they know it’s inferior.  
 

To suddenly stop using the Chinese vaccine would raise uncomfortable questions nobody wants to answer.   
 

So better to keep jabbing people with something you know isn’t effective rather than lose face.  

 Uncomfortable questions, they already have plenty now. They just answer with more lies

[Stargeezr]

digibum.  If all countries will not let their unvaccinated people out of their country, then Thailand would

not have to worry about them arriving.  And if Thailand makes all its people show that they have been 2 shot vaccinated                                                                          before they can leave abroad, then would this not be the same result.  Of course corruption will reign in some parts

of the world and I suspect there would be some that get out once, but not twice.  So I agree with you, but would hope that

all countries around the world will agree not to let their unwashed hoard, ( Unvaccinated) to leave the country.

  Geezer

[timendres]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

A foreign tourist, who flew to Phuket yesterday from Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, tested positive for COVID-19 last night and has been admitted to hospital for treatment, prompting a two-week quarantine of 13 other passengers traveling on the same flight.

That is going to reduce the attractiveness of the "sandbox" for anyone considering traveling.

Edited July 8, 2021 by timendres

[RocketDog]

If I was one of those 13 other pssdengers I would be calling the room of the infected clown who caused this every hour from 10pm until 6am.

Just one of the many ways to entertain themselves for 14 days in a hotel room before they go home. I hope they take lots of pictures of their hotel room to show people when they return home.

 

Fair? Probably not, but I'd want to rant at somebody before finally accepting that I was a fool for even starting the trip.

 

Some people scheduled for this <deleted> shoot may be having second thoughts themselves, or should be.

Now I'm even wondering if I should have so much faith in the upcoming Thai Moon Mission. Am I being naive? Tell me it ain't so.

[RocketDog]

6 hours ago, digibum said:

And the sad part is the Thai government has painted itself into a corner.  

No problem. If they used chinese paint they can wash it away with a garden hose and nobody will be the wiser.

[oldcpu]

22 hours ago, impulse said:

...said the doctor who asked not to be named. “In April, we had infection rates around 10 per cent of people that were tested. Now it is much closer to 20 per cent.”

 

“But in our hospitals, we have people lining up since 3 am to get tested in the morning as we have a limited number of tests. Of those that we do test, there are days when over half are found to be infected.”

One can find out the % who are tested positive in Phuket by going to the local police web site:   https://www.facebook.com/83ssj/?__tn__=-UC*F

 

A recent #, from that web site, where I think < not sure > that says 759 tested in Phuket (in one day) of which only 4 tested positive.  very FAR from 20% positive ... or am I reading that incorrectly?  .... If that 20% accurate for the remainder of Thailand, it doesn't look all that good for outside of Phuket.

[impulse]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

One can find out the % who are tested positive in Phuket by going to the local police web site:   https://www.facebook.com/83ssj/?__tn__=-UC*F

 

A recent #, from that web site, where I think < not sure > that says 759 tested in Phuket (in one day) of which only 4 tested positive.  very FAR from 20% positive ... or am I reading that incorrectly?  .... If that 20% accurate for the remainder of Thailand, it doesn't look all that good for outside of Phuket.

That's a good source and thanks for that.  Let's run with that data.  They tested about 1% of Phuket's 80,000 people and found 4 positives out of 759.  Meaning about 0.5% of Phuket, or 400 people are positive.  (Assuming no selection bias and that people with the sniffles didn't run away and hide to prevent being tossed into quarantine)  If one infected Sandbox tourist escapes into Phuket, that bring it up from 400 to 401 Covid positives on the island.  Not great, but certainly not catastrophic.

 

And with a 0.5% positive rate and some tourists with $$$, I'd expect a tidal wave of Thai people to be swarming to the island to escape the 20% positive crowds with no tourist jobs.  That's what's going to kill the Sandbox.  Not the 1/2000 tourists that test positive.

[Espanol]

On 7/7/2021 at 4:05 PM, impulse said:

Yeah, because hanging out in Mexico with a bunch of unvaccinated, untested people from all over the world is much safer than a 1/1000 chance of testing positive on a flight to Thailand full of vaccinated, tested people.

 

Yes, it's safer if you worry about spending your yearly holidays in a hospital because one of passengers (not even you) got a false positive. 

[ifmu]

12 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Not the best of starts... 

yes thats a big ooops 

[Espanol]

On 7/7/2021 at 3:46 PM, gim12 said:

it would be good to know what brand of vaccine vaccine he had received

Sinopharm

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/infected-sandbox-tourist-vaccinated-with-sinopharm-80606.php