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My first NAS (Network Attached Storage) - Any advice?


KhunHeineken

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I have decided to buy my first NAS.  I've never owned one, nor do any of my friends, so posting here for some discussion.

 

I've done a bit of online research and I can definitely see their benefits.

 

I've settled on the Synology brand.  It's probably going to be a 4 bay NAS.  I don't think I will outgrow a 4 bay NAS, so it should do me well into the future.  Hard Drives will be Seagate Ironwolf, maybe the pro model.  

 

I don't have a lot of data to back-up, but what I do have I would like to take care of.  I have between 1TB and 2TB, but currently I am backing up to 2 portable hard disk drives.  One recently died, which started me on my NAS journey.  

 

It also occurred to me that it was useless having my laptop and 2 hard drives all at the same location.  I would like to practice the 3-2-1 back-up policy and will leave the NAS at a relative's house.  I have a question about this.  Can I set the NAS up on my network, loading some data onto it and the settings I like, and then just connect it to my relative's network?  They won't be using the NAS, and I will be always backing up from a remote location to it.  Any problems with this, other than a slower speed?  

 

I'm learning about the different RAID's available, but what I don't understand is, if you have 3 or 4 HDD's in a 4 bay NAS, and each HDD is greater than the amount of data you need to store, why not use the mirroring RAID, where all the HDD's are clones, or mirrors?  Why use a RAID 5 in this case? 

 

I've read Synology's Hybrid RAID is good also.  Is anyone using it? 

 

I was pretty shocked seeing their prices.  They are pretty expensive for a low spec device, but I understand there's some good wizardry going on inside them.

 

I understand there's a bit involved in the initial set up, but thought it might be a good project during lock down.  ????  

 

I'll have more questions as the thread progresses.  I'm in no hurry to buy, but it will be sooner rather than later.  

 

Do any member have a NAS?  What are your experiences?  Do you have any advice to share?

 

Thanks.  

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About putting your NAS in another house, then you have to deal with the network speed for up- and download. Also you have to make sure you can access the NAS from outside (which should be done only by a VPN)! Because you not want give easy access to your information to everybody on the world. There are many script kiddies which like to try to hack you only for fun. 

 

About why RAID 5, this is because if you use mirroring, then for 4 drives... you only can use 2 of them as the other 2 are copies. If you use raid 5, then you could use 3 drives and only 1 drive is used for security. (Raid 5 equals 1 security drive, raid 6 2 security drive) this mean with raid 5 1 drive can crash and you still have no data lost. with raid 6, 2 drives can crash and no data lost. with the mirroring if 2 drives crash out of 4, then you have 50% chance that no data lost and 50% changes that half the data is gone!

 

Normaly with 2 drive you use mirroring, with 3 up you use raid 5 or if let's say 5 or more then maybe raid 6 is desired.

The synology Hybrid Raid makes it only easier to change and upgrade, if you not that expert or to lazy to take care of all the small steps. In my opinion it's not bad. there are again 2 option of SHR-1 and SHR-2 (which is more or less equal to raid 5 and 6).

 

Yes the Sinology and QNAP are quit expensive for what you really become. But both of them are worth their money. As they take care a lot of the problems. And give you also many many other additional benefit which over the time you maybe will become interested. (Plex-Server, Synology-Drive, Snapshot-Replication to name a few).

 

Hope I had explain it enough, that your questions are answered. I have myself 2 Synology NAS (DS1817+ / DS1510+). Both still run in perfect condition even the older one I only use as security backup. You maybe also think for a small UPS?

 

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8 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

How will you connect to it remotely?

You setup a VPN server on the NAS (even better on the Router if it's supported). Then you create a ddns address with your IP. So you can then connect from everywhere via VPN to the NAS. The only way which you should connect the NAS from outside! 
Better of course if your NAS is not accessible at all from outside. But if have to then only via VPN!

Edited by HampiK
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14 minutes ago, HampiK said:

Then you create a ddns address with your IP. So you can then connect from everywhere via VPN to the NAS

All well and good until/if they put you behind Carrier Grade Nat   the VPN will not connect  because the public facing IP address in not the same as the routers Wan address

ToT recently merged with CAT and  put me  behind CGNAT  with no prior notice  now no

(outside) access to my VPN or security cameras !! ????

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48 minutes ago, HampiK said:

You setup a VPN server on the NAS (even better on the Router if it's supported). Then you create a ddns address with your IP. So you can then connect from everywhere via VPN to the NAS. The only way which you should connect the NAS from outside! 
Better of course if your NAS is not accessible at all from outside. But if have to then only via VPN!

My WAN IP address checked at the 3BB router is 100.73.xx.xxx but the internet sees me as 223.206.xxx.xxx. To do an inbound connection from the internet to my 3BB router at 100.73.xx.xxx to access a NAS would be very challenging.

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38 minutes ago, johng said:

All well and good until/if they put you behind Carrier Grade Nat   the VPN will not connect  because the public facing IP address in not the same as the routers Wan address

ToT recently merged with CAT and  put me  behind CGNAT  with no prior notice  now no

(outside) access to my VPN or security cameras !! ????

most ISP you can ask to clear this. I had before CS Loxinfo, and it worked... now I am with True and after talking with customer service I can use it again. So let's say I can talk about this 2 ISPs and if you talk to them they can solve the problem for you!

 

But with ToT/CAT.. I have no experience it talking to some technician will help or not. With True I have arranged it. And this was about 1 year ago when I changed. I at that time keept my CS LoxInfo in case True would not solve the problem I would cancel True again and stay with CS LoxInfo...

 

  

6 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

My WAN IP address checked at the 3BB router is 100.73.xx.xxx but the internet sees me as 223.206.xxx.xxx. To do an inbound connection from the internet to my 3BB router at 100.73.xx.xxx to access a NAS would be very challenging.

I would guess that is exactly the problem that you are behind a NAT. 

Edited by HampiK
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11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About NAT and access to that via Internet: I wouldn't recommend that even if it is possible.

 

The reason is obviously security. If you want a backup which you can access via the internet then use online backup in the cloud from a established company like i.e. Microsoft. They can and do spend a ton of money to make sure unauthorized people are not able to get your data.

And home NAT and home firewall and home router is schoolkids-grade compared to what i.e. Microsoft does for security. There is no point in even trying to do this yourself if good and not expensive online backup is available. 

In general I agree with you. Because of that if it's necessary then only via VPN. I have seen many which open their NAS to the public without any measures except a password and a username ????. Same with the Router!

 

Or check how many private webcam's are available over the internet freely to see... I not remember the site anymore but there is one which you can see many millions of different users at home, because they use their standard password or other faulty settings in their camera!!!

Edited by HampiK
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7 minutes ago, HampiK said:

I have seen many which open their NAS to the public without any measures except a password and a username ????.

Maybe ok if you only have movies (not the homemade sort) on the NAS. Personal documents like financial or health records or even photos, no way.

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16 minutes ago, HampiK said:

But with ToT/CAT.. I have no experience it talking to some technician will help or not

I talked to ToT  they sent "technicians"  said it was fixed it wasn't   talked to the "technicians" headman who said "it is what it is"  he couldn't change me back  without upgrading to a different package

I haven't bothered to follow up as  access to  the "broken stuff" is not of high importance to me at this time  and I  slowly investigate alternatives  like the VPS  servers or portmap.io

 

26 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

My WAN IP address checked at the 3BB router is 100.73.xx.xxx but the internet sees me as 223.206.xxx.xxx. To do an inbound connection from the internet to my 3BB router at 100.73.xx.xxx to access a NAS would be very challenging.

Yes GCNAT  router WAN IP and Public IP are not the same.

1890373024_crop_CGNATTOT.jpg.6aeba769120f98a4ea73b6b16515340f.jpg

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I use QNAP NAS, and have done for many years. I have a 2 drive raid 1 with one 6TB WD and one 8TB Seagate, so I only have 6TB capacity, but I will upgrade the WD when it's needed. QNAP has an app called myQNAPcloud which lets you remotely login in to your drive. It's relatively secure if you take the time to set it up carefully, but any NAS open to the internet is a potential security risk. Also, check the T&C carefully to see what you are giving QNAP access to.

 

When I need additional backups, I have a 3rd drive and swap that out weekly, so I can rebuild the RAID if I have to. I could lose up to one week's work, but I keep a local back up of that as well. 

 

I was using a TS-253 Pro but it didn't survive the trip here, and I couldn't get a replacement at a price I was willing to pay, so I have a TS-251D at the moment. 

 

I couldn't say whether QNAP or Synology is better, but do some research before you buy. Once you have everything setup for one system, it's a huge job to change over. For example, my NAS got damaged coming here. I was able to take the drives and put them into another compatible QNAP NAS and access my files immediately. I'd imagine Synology have a similar process. Switching between brands is a data recovery situation. (My drives get horribly mistreated, so my priority is primarily how robust the system is, and how easily I can swap out damaged or failed parts.) 

To echo HampiK, you should really consider a UPS as well. 

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As a complete novice 10 years ago we put a WD NAS Mycloud Mirror in the house. It's easy use straight out the box, backs up my laptops and shares home entertainment on public folders for the family to browse on their devices or TVs. Big improvement on back up via attached USB drives, and still going strong today. Cost 13900THB at the time. I wouldn't run it from another house though, tried it from our other property once and it was slow and seemed easy to hack, so we turned off the cloud access.

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A synology NAS is like the apple of storage, using one is very intuitive and there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube to set up or achieve your goal. 
 

I use SHR - you just need to load a minimum 3 drives into the unit and the OS will do the rest, this means that if one drive fails you can rebuild your lost drive.

 

Synology has proprietary ddns service, that you can use to log in remotely to your unit.  
 

There are enough proprietary or approved apps in the synology App Store, that will help you achieve your goal, if you can’t find what you are looking for then your can use docker to load any manner of open source applications.
 

The worst thing about synology is that it’s so boring and predictably stable. 
 

I use mine to store photos, backup music directory and backup mine and my wife’s Macs via time machine. I have 2 unRaid servers which are more flexible and easier to use, but that’s going off topic.
 

 

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16 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

As a complete novice 10 years ago we put a WD NAS Mycloud Mirror in the house. It's easy use straight out the box, backs up my laptops and shares home entertainment on public folders for the family to browse on their devices or TVs. Big improvement on back up via attached USB drives

Be careful of backups left connected to the network especially if 'the family' includes several people using Windows PCs or laptops. Ransomware immediately goes after network shares to encrypt them along with the files on the laptops/PCs. Backup to the NAS for convenience but you should also occasionally copy important backup files to a removable drive.

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On 8/9/2021 at 6:36 PM, HampiK said:

About putting your NAS in another house, then you have to deal with the network speed for up- and download. Also you have to make sure you can access the NAS from outside (which should be done only by a VPN)! Because you not want give easy access to your information to everybody on the world. There are many script kiddies which like to try to hack you only for fun. 

 

About why RAID 5, this is because if you use mirroring, then for 4 drives... you only can use 2 of them as the other 2 are copies. If you use raid 5, then you could use 3 drives and only 1 drive is used for security. (Raid 5 equals 1 security drive, raid 6 2 security drive) this mean with raid 5 1 drive can crash and you still have no data lost. with raid 6, 2 drives can crash and no data lost. with the mirroring if 2 drives crash out of 4, then you have 50% chance that no data lost and 50% changes that half the data is gone!

 

Normaly with 2 drive you use mirroring, with 3 up you use raid 5 or if let's say 5 or more then maybe raid 6 is desired.

The synology Hybrid Raid makes it only easier to change and upgrade, if you not that expert or to lazy to take care of all the small steps. In my opinion it's not bad. there are again 2 option of SHR-1 and SHR-2 (which is more or less equal to raid 5 and 6).

 

Yes the Sinology and QNAP are quit expensive for what you really become. But both of them are worth their money. As they take care a lot of the problems. And give you also many many other additional benefit which over the time you maybe will become interested. (Plex-Server, Synology-Drive, Snapshot-Replication to name a few).

 

Hope I had explain it enough, that your questions are answered. I have myself 2 Synology NAS (DS1817+ / DS1510+). Both still run in perfect condition even the older one I only use as security backup. You maybe also think for a small UPS?

 

Thanks for your post.

 

Before covid, I travelled a lot and was away from my home country most of the year.  My idea to leave it at a friend or relatives place was so I could cut the internet to my own home while I was away.  Just one less bill to pay.   The slow speeds do not worry me too much.  I mainly take photos, not video.  

 

I read hat the Synology Hybrid RAID is also easier to swap out HDD's, and they can be of different sizes.  I'll probably go with SHR-1.  

 

Snapshot is something I read about and see on Youtube, but I don't know what it is.  Is it a Windows image that can be reloaded?  

 

I already have a UPS.  It has a USB port.  I see people connect their UPS to the NAS, not the power cable but with a USB cable.  I don't know why.  I have programed my UPS to safe shut down everything connected to it when there is 10% battery left.  

 

When you say you use the second Synology as a security back up, are you using a second NAS as a complete mirror to the first NAS?  Are they both in the same location?   

 

 

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On 8/9/2021 at 6:50 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

RAID 1 (mirror) is simple and secure. This is why you should use it in a NAS and possibly also in your PC (if you have a device which allows at least two "disks".

 

It seems you thought about the important parts. Did you also think about online backup "in the cloud". That is pretty secure, available from anywhere (after a fire or if your computer crashes) and it is not expensive.

I.e. you can use Microsoft One Drive stand alone and/or as part of an Office 365 subscription.

 

Thanks for your post.  

 

After reading your post I checked out cloud storage.  I never liked the idea of handing over all of my digital life to a company. I was impressed with the services the companies offer, and when I saw zero knowledge encryption was offered, I was interested. 

 

It came down to Backblaze v iDrive and I settled on iDrive mainly because they allow unlimited computers and can store system images.  I have played around with the software over the last week and can recommend iDrive to members.  They have data centers backing up their data centers.  I am confident my data is safe and remains private with them.  

 

Even though I now have cloud back up, I will still get a NAS.  

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On 8/9/2021 at 6:57 PM, johng said:

All well and good until/if they put you behind Carrier Grade Nat   the VPN will not connect  because the public facing IP address in not the same as the routers Wan address

ToT recently merged with CAT and  put me  behind CGNAT  with no prior notice  now no

(outside) access to my VPN or security cameras !! ????

You've used a term I am not familiar with.  Can you briefly tell me what a Carrier Grade Nat is?  

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On 8/9/2021 at 8:27 PM, Polar Bear said:

I use QNAP NAS, and have done for many years. I have a 2 drive raid 1 with one 6TB WD and one 8TB Seagate, so I only have 6TB capacity, but I will upgrade the WD when it's needed. QNAP has an app called myQNAPcloud which lets you remotely login in to your drive. It's relatively secure if you take the time to set it up carefully, but any NAS open to the internet is a potential security risk. Also, check the T&C carefully to see what you are giving QNAP access to.

 

When I need additional backups, I have a 3rd drive and swap that out weekly, so I can rebuild the RAID if I have to. I could lose up to one week's work, but I keep a local back up of that as well. 

 

I was using a TS-253 Pro but it didn't survive the trip here, and I couldn't get a replacement at a price I was willing to pay, so I have a TS-251D at the moment. 

 

I couldn't say whether QNAP or Synology is better, but do some research before you buy. Once you have everything setup for one system, it's a huge job to change over. For example, my NAS got damaged coming here. I was able to take the drives and put them into another compatible QNAP NAS and access my files immediately. I'd imagine Synology have a similar process. Switching between brands is a data recovery situation. (My drives get horribly mistreated, so my priority is primarily how robust the system is, and how easily I can swap out damaged or failed parts.) 

To echo HampiK, you should really consider a UPS as well. 

Thanks for your post.

 

I'll ask other members when they upgraded their Synology NAS, could they put their old HDD's in it without formatting and reloading?

 

I gathered this NAS was going to last me a long time, maybe over 10 years.  

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On 8/9/2021 at 8:45 PM, WorriedNoodle said:

As a complete novice 10 years ago we put a WD NAS Mycloud Mirror in the house. It's easy use straight out the box, backs up my laptops and shares home entertainment on public folders for the family to browse on their devices or TVs. Big improvement on back up via attached USB drives, and still going strong today. Cost 13900THB at the time. I wouldn't run it from another house though, tried it from our other property once and it was slow and seemed easy to hack, so we turned off the cloud access.

Speed seems to be the issue with remote access.  As another member said, I would VPN back to it for security and privacy, and I could then upload my latest photos from my travels.  I could upload overnight.  This would not be a problem for me.  

 

Even if it was in my house, in my home country, I would basically be remote accessing anyway as I would be in another country.  

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On 8/9/2021 at 10:34 PM, recom273 said:

A synology NAS is like the apple of storage, using one is very intuitive and there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube to set up or achieve your goal. 
 

I use SHR - you just need to load a minimum 3 drives into the unit and the OS will do the rest, this means that if one drive fails you can rebuild your lost drive.

 

Synology has proprietary ddns service, that you can use to log in remotely to your unit.  
 

There are enough proprietary or approved apps in the synology App Store, that will help you achieve your goal, if you can’t find what you are looking for then your can use docker to load any manner of open source applications.
 

The worst thing about synology is that it’s so boring and predictably stable. 
 

I use mine to store photos, backup music directory and backup mine and my wife’s Macs via time machine. I have 2 unRaid servers which are more flexible and easier to use, but that’s going off topic.
 

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I plan to use 3 bays of a 4 bay NAS.  I'll keep a bay free for when my storage needs grow.  

 

I have seen the term docker in my research.  I don't quite get it.  What can you do with it?  What are people using it for?  What are the benefits?

 

I will use my NAS the same way.  Mainly, photos, music, documents,  and Acronis back up images of my desktop and 2 laptop computers.  

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On 8/10/2021 at 1:30 PM, KeeTua said:

Be careful of backups left connected to the network especially if 'the family' includes several people using Windows PCs or laptops. Ransomware immediately goes after network shares to encrypt them along with the files on the laptops/PCs. Backup to the NAS for convenience but you should also occasionally copy important backup files to a removable drive.

Fortunately, I have never been the victim of a ransomware attack.  If my NAS got infected with ransomware, can I format the HDD's in the NAS and reload them from a portable HDD and cloud storage?  

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I've had NAS for 10 years now (old one 10 years, still working, new one 4 years no problems).

No need for the expensive units, Zyxel are fine.

No need for many internal bays (internal drives have unusual formats, you can't take them out and plug into your PC if the NAS failed), my 2 drive NAS has 3 external USB ports. I have a WD 4TB 'My Passport' plugged into one of the external ports, and a 500GB bare drive inside.

Forget RAID, it causes more problems than it cures.

Forget keeping it in another house, unless its full of illegal stuff you don't want the police to find in a raid.

The NAS downloads torrents when the PC is turned off.

Never understood encryption or obsession with security, if somebody wants to view my family and holiday snaps, they're welcome.

 

Zyxel Nas 326 4,300bht

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/quotsalequot-nas-zyxel-2-bay-nas326-marvell-armada-380-13-ghz-ddr3-512-mb-computer-cpu-vga-mainboard-monitor-case-webcam-i2684052410-s9671381925.html

 

WD 4TB My Passport 2,700bht

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wd-my-passport-4tb-blue-usb-30-hdd-25-wdbpkj0040bbl-wesn-internal-harddisk-harddrive-i522016476-s929984039.html

Edited by BritManToo
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19 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Fortunately, I have never been the victim of a ransomware attack.  If my NAS got infected with ransomware, can I format the HDD's in the NAS and reload them from a portable HDD and cloud storage?  

Yes you can reformat any infected drives and restore data to them. Keep in mind that it may be possible for your cloud data to become encrypted depending on how files are synced. If changed files sync automatically to the cloud your ransomware encrypted files on your computer could overwrite your cloud stored files. Safest is to connect your portable hdd to copy backups to and immediately disconnect it from the computer when backup is complete.

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1 hour ago, KeeTua said:

Yes you can reformat any infected drives and restore data to them. Keep in mind that it may be possible for your cloud data to become encrypted depending on how files are synced. If changed files sync automatically to the cloud your ransomware encrypted files on your computer could overwrite your cloud stored files. Safest is to connect your portable hdd to copy backups to and immediately disconnect it from the computer when backup is complete.

Exactly for that event is the snapshot the perfect solution. If a ransomware overwrite all my data (as long there is enough space), as all old files will still be stored. If a ransomware would really hit me, then I would load an older snapshot. But let's hope nothing will happen.

I still have around 20% free on my NAS for Snapshots. In normal usage a snapshot not use that much space, as most files you not edit all the time.

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1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I've had NAS for 10 years now (old one 10 years, still working, new one 4 years no problems).

No need for the expensive units, Zyxel are fine.

No need for many internal bays (internal drives have unusual formats, you can't take them out and plug into your PC if the NAS failed), my 2 drive NAS has 3 external USB ports. I have a WD 4TB 'My Passport' plugged into one of the external ports, and a 500GB bare drive inside.

Forget RAID, it causes more problems than it cures.

Forget keeping it in another house, unless its full of illegal stuff you don't want the police to find in a raid.

The NAS downloads torrents when the PC is turned off.

Never understood encryption or obsession with security, if somebody wants to view my family and holiday snaps, they're welcome.

 

Zyxel Nas 326 4,300bht

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/quotsalequot-nas-zyxel-2-bay-nas326-marvell-armada-380-13-ghz-ddr3-512-mb-computer-cpu-vga-mainboard-monitor-case-webcam-i2684052410-s9671381925.html

 

WD 4TB My Passport 2,700bht

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wd-my-passport-4tb-blue-usb-30-hdd-25-wdbpkj0040bbl-wesn-internal-harddisk-harddrive-i522016476-s929984039.html

I am very sorry, but you not have a lot of knowledge about NAS (maybe not even about IT in general)!

Your solution is for sure an option for private usage but far away from safe, and has not much in common with a person who is interrested in a NAS solution.
only your speaking of RAID is of no use sorry you even know what a raid 5 or raid 6 is? I think no further comments about the rest of your text.

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3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I already have a UPS.  It has a USB port.  I see people connect their UPS to the NAS, not the power cable but with a USB cable.  I don't know why.  I have programed my UPS to safe shut down everything connected to it when there is 10% battery left.  

I have my NAS set to unmount the drives if the power is off for more than 5 minutes and shut down if it's off for longer (30 min I think, but I can't remember.) It also sends me an email, so I know what has happened. Once the power comes back, the NAS automatically remounts the drives, but once it's shutdown, you have to be physically be there to press the power button to get it back on, which could be an issue if you have it elsewhere. 

 

 

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I gathered this NAS was going to last me a long time, maybe over 10 years.  

As I said, my drives get mistreated. I move around a lot, and they gets hauled around the world with me. They have frequently been installed in environments that are not good for electronics for various reasons. I have drive failures every few years, and I expect that. This is the first time I've had an actual NAS fail, although I have upgraded once before because my first NAS couldn't take the larger size drives. This time, airport security made me remove the drives from my NAS and then poked around inside it. I guess they shorted something.

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3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Thanks for your post.

 

I plan to use 3 bays of a 4 bay NAS.  I'll keep a bay free for when my storage needs grow.  

 

I have seen the term docker in my research.  I don't quite get it.  What can you do with it?  What are people using it for?  What are the benefits?

 

I will use my NAS the same way.  Mainly, photos, music, documents,  and Acronis back up images of my desktop and 2 laptop computers.  

Docker is a framework that you can “install” stand alone apps in, they are easy to install and remove. Synology has a lot of proprietary software that will

probably fit your needs, for sync and media storage .. but if you want a decent audio streaming server or specialist apps for example, a recipe database then open source apps have what you need. 
 

 

I think he explains it well in the first 90 seconds.

 

With regard to RAID - I never had an issue with SHR, loaded with 3 drives, you will get roughly the usable space of the two smallest drives added together, but check with the synology raid calculator, this will ensure that it one drive dies then your data can be rebuilt, I have removed, upgraded drives and rebuilt in the past without an issue and it works well. 
 

I agree that it’s not worth keeping up with the fastest processor, unless your transcoding and streaming 4K video to multiple users, mine just sits there whirring away, I'm never too sure of the speed it does things, it does it’s backups in its own time, I guess usually when I'm sleeping. 

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