Factor F With Architect?

[ZEAK]

Been working with a Thai architect designing my condo. After I had the drawings done up I paid for her services, which I thought were quite reasonable. Then when she gave me the quote from a contractor I was told about the factor F, which, if the total sum is under 500K, the factor F is an automatic %25 of the total.

This seems like an awful lot, not to mention any cream on the side that they may be getting from the contractors. I am concerned that my little renovation job is going to cost me a lot more than I had hoped for. Right now I am thinking about taking my drawings, which I paid for, and getting quotes myself from contractors to save this fee of %25.

Has anyone had experience dealing with architects in Thailand? Did you have the dreaded factor F as well?

[backflip]

"dreaded factor F"

As in f**ked? I assume what the architect told you is that her charges are 25% of the construction costs - right? I assumed that you signed a contract for her professional services, and all of her charges are clearly spelled out. How does your contract read? Are you in possession of the drawings? If not, and you've already paid her, you've already been a victim of the "dreaded factor F". If you have the drawings, ask her why you would pay her the additional 25%.

[quiksilva]

"Factor F" never heard of it, and I just had some work done which set me back 100K, there was no f**ked factor in that for me.

Even when giving the benefit of the doubt, and assume its a Project management fee, 25% still sounds far too steep.

Take your drawings and get more quotes to keep her honest.

[dave111223]

Factor Farang

[quiksilva]

Factor Farang

Doh! That'll be it

[ZEAK]

Ha, yeah, I thought it was a farung factor. But she said it was a fee factor, and that the norm for architects was 7%, and 10% for designers, unless the total is under 500K then it’s an automatic 25%. So, I guess this would be her fee for overseeing the work? Not to mention any cream on the side she might get for using certain contractors.

She is good at drawings, and I have paid her for them and have them in my possession. But on the design side of things, she has much to learn. She also said it was strange that I wanted to see some of the contractors work and also that I wanted multiple quotes from other contractors. Wrote me a letter saying that I should calm down and accept that this it Thailand blaa blaa blaa. This upset me, as if I am going to be laying down 200K to one contractor, and another 300K to a different one, I want to see what I will be getting for my money.

Even after putting up a stink I really have yet to see a "good" sample of their work.

So. I am thinking about cutting and running from this shenagan, as there was no contract between us and I have already paid her for the drawings. Its just the soft side of me feels bad as now she is going around to get a few more quotes, working in essence in hope of the F factor follow through. Maybe I will just see if I can settle with her before she does anymore work.

Also, she said that if I did not use the first contractor that I should compensate him for his "wasted" time. A whole hour of his life. My friend who does up a lot of condos says this is unheard of, that no money should be paid to receive a quote. So why would she say that then if it is not the norm?

To many if's in this situation, and the fact that part of the quote was for 50K just for plaster on walls in a small studio leaves me wondering.

Thanks for input from those that have dealt with architect before.

Best,

[quiksilva]

Compensate a contractor for his wasted time? Whats he done? Pah, what about your time?

"Why would she say it?" because she is being overly nice to her contractors.

She does not seem to be acting in your best interests.

Personally I would have walked after getting that letter from her. There's plenty of others out there to choose from.

[dave111223]

Wrote me a letter saying that I should calm down and accept that this it Thailand blaa blaa blaa. This upset me, as if I am going to be laying down 200K to one contractor, and another 300K to a different one, I want to see what I will be getting for my money.

I hate that! I have received similar emails when corresponding with some Thais about serious matters.

They use the word "calm down" totally incorrectly.

You ask a blunt and direct forward question (totally void of any emotion) which they can't or dont' want to answer and they tell you to "calm down"?

"Accept that this is Thailand" = "Accept that you will pay more and recieved sub-standard work".

Get rid of this person now.

Also, she said that if I did not use the first contractor that I should compensate him for his "wasted" time. A whole hour of his life. My friend who does up a lot of condos says this is unheard of, that no money should be paid to receive a quote. So why would she say that then if it is not the norm?

What a bunch of BS! Paying them to give you a quote? It was probably just some "nong" who went to price up the job anyways?

I could maybe see paying for a quote if the contractor was some highly sort after, highly expensive guru.

Don't feel bad, it is just business, and if she can't provide you with the correct service then don't feel obligated to continue working with her.

I guarantee the additional quotes that she "gets" will be twice as high as the first and she'll say "Look! First contractor is better!"

[The Skipper]

"She also said it was strange that I wanted to see some of the contractors work and also that I wanted multiple quotes from other contractors. Wrote me a letter saying that I should calm down and accept that this it Thailand blaa blaa blaa"

Translation:

We don't like Farangs asking questions and doing some research.

Just relax and accept this is Thailand. Getting overcharged for poor quality work is normal....and besides, my friends will think I'm crazy if I don't try to take advantage of the Farang.

Edited May 29, 2007 by The Skipper

[chinthee]

This may be the wrong forum to ask this, but does anyone know a good and (fair) architect in Korat? I'm going to be building a commercial building there and could use some references.

[steelepulse]

Sounds like the OP needs to get a new architect.

When I had my house built, I had 3 contractors come and bid on the job after the architect had supplied them with drawings and all other necessary info ( bill of quantity I think it was called) to bid on the first phase of construction. We then went around and viewed the various contractors work and selected the one that suited us best.  For this we paid a flat fee to the architect ( which was very reasonable compared to what it would have cost in the west).  During our construction our architect decided to switch over future clients to a % of construction cost, but he didn't try to screw us on this. Instead he had one of his architects become our " project manager" for 15K per month to oversee half day per day.  I thought this was a bit high, but the end product was we got a house that we wanted and didn't have he normal construction blues you hear of so often.

This may be the wrong forum to ask this, but does anyone know a good and (fair) architect in Korat? I'm going to be building a commercial building there and could use some references.

[apetley]

She's trying it on. Even Thais see the value in getting more than one quote before building work, it's called common sense.

I have just had my own house plans drawn up for a 240 sqm house. 5000 Bht and they are excellent. An architect at the local municipality quoted 12k which would still have been a good price.