Problems Finding Thai Hotel Information

[Donna2005]

I am going to share some interesting information with you that I discovered about the somewhat deceptive practices of the online hotel booking sites in Thailand.

It starts with the fact that there is a problem travelers have when trying to locate the web site or contact details of Thai hotels using a search engine.

This is because the hotel booking sites are so “search engine optimized” using Thai hotel name keywords that they fill up pages and pages of search results if you happen to try and actually find a hotel’s own web site using Google. This is a fair business practice I guess, but it puts the hotels at a major disadvantage if someone is trying to get in contact with them for any other reason than to book a room. What if your friend is staying there and you are trying to find the hotel’s phone number to reach your friend and you can’t? And it only gets worse from there.

The more serious problem has to do with the fact that the hotel booking sites are squatting on the actual domain names of many many hotels that they do not own.

If at first you fail to find the hotel in Google and you decide to type in the hotel name as a URL you again very often end up again on a booking site that is squatting on the domain name, and often without you even knowing it is a booking site.

The site is normally cheaply done, so it does not represent the hotel itself in the best way, but yet made to look like a hotel’s own web site when in fact it is not. You can always tell when it is a fake hotel web site because there will be no hotel phone number or e-mail address to reach the hotel directly since they want to make the booking for you.

The biggest culprit is sawasdee.com/sawatdee.com which is one of the large hotel booking sites in Thailand. I have found there are others doing it too, but sawasdee.com/sawatdee.com is by far the most active in this practice.

They also operate their booking site network secretly under a number of other domain names which they use to do their hotel domain name squatting so that they don't tarnish the sawasdee.com/sawatdee.com brand name itself as a hotel booking site brand.

Some of the domains they use to hide behind when they squat on hotel domains names include the following:

r24.com

r24.org

res24.com

th66.com

thai1x1.com

thailand1x1.com

An example of one of the many hotels where it is difficult to find the hotel’s actual web site is the Grand Sea View Beach in Samui. If you type in www.grandseaview.com it comes up with a site for hotel bookings under thai1x1.com/thailand1x1.com brand name which belongs to sawasdee.com/sawatdee.com.

Then if you type in www.grandseaviewhotel.com you get an actual fake hotel site owned by r24.org, which is again also sawasdee.com/sawatdee.com.

Both sites are cheaply done and are not impressive looking to a prospective traveler. The first site wants to sell you a room anywhere it can in Thailand, so they are certainly not helping the hotel, but making good use of the hotel’s name. And the fake hotel site itself is certainly not doing anything to help the hotel impress perspective guests either with its cheap five-minutes-to-get-the-site-online design.

The hotel’s actual web site is www.grandseaviewbeachhotel.com and is much nicer site than either of the two above. The problem is, you would most likely never be able to find the hotel's own web site in Google or otherwise because the hotel booking sites are blocking up the search results on “grand sea view hotel” if you were to try and find the hotel’s web site using Google.

In addition, the hotel itself probably had to choose such a long and unappealing domain name for their own web site because the hotel’s own domain name was probably no longer available when they went to try and register it. A squatter got there first!

This is just one example of this issue and it is rife on the internet with many of the Thai hotels.

[think_too_mut]

This is just one example of this issue and it is rife on the internet with many of the Thai hotels.

Small wonder it is like that.

Thai hotels sell their capacity to the agencies, pocket the money and leave the agents exposed to things like SARS, coups, terrorism, unrests and whatever else may hinder tourism industry.

Their job is to service whoever is brought on the premises. Cohortes of maids, receptionists and other staff do their daily work regardless of how and through whom the guests came.

If you can find a phone number, they would connect you to your family/friends in a particular room.

And for contacting a hotel directly - don't do it. It may be a double price of what the agencies "squatting" over the hotels may charge.

[ProThaiExpat]

While I have experienced the "squatter problem", I found that when I actually got in touch of the hotel, the rate quoted to me by the hotel was 20% less that the "squatters" quote.

[think_too_mut]

While I have experienced the "squatter problem", I found that when I actually got in touch of the hotel, the rate quoted to me by the hotel was 20% less that the "squatters" quote.

We booked over the net and needed 1 more day stay. Simply, it was wife's birthday and we got drunk, could not drive,

My wife (Thai) went downstairs and arranged an extra day. The receptionists told her to contact the agent. It was Saturday and no agent.

We ended up paying double price and no breakfast.

[donna]

thats too bad think too mut. sounds like a very stupid thing to do on the hotels part. i doubt you will return to that hotel again.

i work in a hotel too. many of these web portals expect that they will have the cheapest rate - cheaper than contacting the hotel directly at times. i have often had to contact other hotels to see if they have rooms available and often have been told to go to one of the various web portals that they use! the staff refuse to sell directly to me. i find that ridiculous.

now, often the reason for this is that the hotels have an 'allotment' with these portals. that is, they tell the web portal that they can sell X number of rooms at the hotel. the hotel staff often do not have the guts or forethought to call the web portal and tell them that they are sold out and cannot take more reservations. i do this all the time during busy periods and the web portals are always very accommodating. (better than being over booked i can tell you).

had a guest of mine wanted to extend their stay i would not hesitate in taking the reservation. if the web portals staff are not int he office, well thats their loss and the hotels gain as the hotel will not be paying them a commission on the extra night.

having said all that, i do agree with my lil sister Donna2005's comments. its deceptive and misleading.

[colino]

I have had this problem as well the othere week i tried to book an hotel in bangkok for a mate all i kept getting was agent web sites and when i asked about the hotel i wanted they said it was full ,, so i phoned the hotel which was not full but wanted nearly double the price of the agent ,,(walk in price)

when i told them that the agency was quoting a lot less they just said book through them

,, BUT THEY SAY YOUR FULL ????????

[donna]

thats just pure poor management of their portals. its not that difficult to do. low season you give lots of availability so that you fill up. sounds like they didnt maintain their portals too well. it makes no sense to me at all to be double the price of the web portal. most hotels will aim, of course, for the highest price they can get. thats normal business practice. but most hotels are open to bargaining to a certain degree.

[Donna2005]

All very good information here that everyone has added about the booking process, rates, and etc, thank you. I feel though the main points of my original post have been somewhat overlooked.

Most are assuming that you have already been in contact with the hotel and it is coming down to a decision on whether to book directly with the hotel or use a booking site, and which way would be more cost effective.

I am not nearly as much concerned with this issue as I believe there is no rule of thumb on it anyway. Rates will come down to the individual hotels, on a per case basis, high season, low season, contract agreements with agencies and booking sites, occupancy rates, and etc.

My point was really twofold:

1 - The hotel booking sites are using some questionable practices to divert people away from ever having a chance of contacting a hotel directly. Especially the ones who put up sites posing as the hotel's own web site, of which there are many, possibly even hundreds.

2 - Trying to prevent people from being able to contact a business directly has issues of its own and how can one know if the broker, or the booking site in this case, is representing the product to you in a straight forward way.

To me the above issues are just as important as getting a good rate and there is no guarantee the booking sites that are holding you captive are offering you a better one. And on a strictly moral level, I certainly don't want to give my business to anyone who is using any form of unethical business practices.

Edited May 29, 2007 by Donna2005

[roger7748]

I totally agree Donna. And in a democratic world we should all have that freedom to choose between one thing or another. If all we are left with is one choice, then we weren't actually given a choice, but a single option. And is that one option is a booking site, and we can never reach the hotel directly to compare rates, then how do we know if they are even giving us a good price? Furthermore, if that booking site is putting up fake hotel web sites trying to lure you in, then I wouldn't want to give them my business either. Kudos to you for bringing this to our attention and the hotel domain name squatting was something I was not at all aware of.

[Arandora]

I totally agree Donna. And in a democratic world we should all have that freedom to choose between one thing or another. If all we are left with is one choice, then we weren't actually given a choice, but a single option. And is that one option is a booking site, and we can never reach the hotel directly to compare rates, then how do we know if they are even giving us a good price? Furthermore, if that booking site is putting up fake hotel web sites trying to lure you in, then I wouldn't want to give them my business either. Kudos to you for bringing this to our attention and the hotel domain name squatting was something I was not at all aware of.

It is ironic that it is the R24 booking system in general and sawasdee.com in particular that comes under criticism. The R24 system is intended to support the booking of hotels in a more local and less predatory fashion than the much maligned mass booking agencies such as AsiaRooms.com (who incidentally from my experience I think is great for straightforward bookings at hard to beat rates).

Before I book a hotel I Google extensively for best rates. If the particular hotel I'm looking for is not first on the list (and, by the way, they rarely are in any country not just Thailand!) I page through until I find it. I have yet to find a hotel in my preferred destinations in Thailand, large or small, that has bettered rates offered by on-line agencies, whether they are Thai, R24 or international.

I think "deceptive practises" is neither accurate nor representative of obtaining value for money, which is what we are mostly interested in!

[Ramon88]

I am going to share some interesting information with you that I discovered about the somewhat deceptive practices of the online hotel booking sites in Thailand.

It starts with the fact that there is a problem travelers have when trying to locate the web site or contact details of Thai hotels using a search engine.

Donna, this is not the policy of R24 and you should complain to them about specific sites that you see:

Their policy - quoted from their website is this:

"Important: Domain names, related to specific hotel names are

NOT permitted in R24. Failure to comply will result removal of the

domain without prior notice. In severe or repeated cases,

the complete account will be terminated."

I suspect if you complain you will see the offending websites closed down.

These are times when anyone can put up a website in one hour or less - and there are a multitude of abuses by many people (not the booking agencies - the people) - and the best way to deal with it is to report it.

That will solve the problem much faster than posting here.

Edited May 29, 2007 by Ramon88

[soapsud]

I have just booked 2 hotels in Bangkok for next week. I checked out all of the travel agent sites mentioned, and then went directly to the hotels I wanted, and asked if there were any specials. The travel sites could not match the specials of the Hotels,( these are hotels like the Shangrila etc.,) but if I was to use a travel agent site in Thailand I still find asiarooms.com hard to beat when it comes to prices and service.

I did speak to some one I know at Google and I discussed this problem a while back of travel sites v the actual hotel site, the reason why hotel sites are so far back on google searches, is that a lot of travel sites pay to be close to the top of google searchs, and the hotels have not being paying to make sure they are the first thing that comes up from a search. Some of it also has to do with how much hit rates your site gets to how close to the top you are in a search, Placement is everything. Hotels are becomming smarter in promoting there own hotels themselves, and if I get to their web site, I always look for the specials they are running, they are always better than the travel site offers. We travel alot and I stay in many hotels, the trend seems to be the hotel has the better rate.

[Colby]

Here is a story for you and it is based purely upon an actual experience and not here say. 10 minutes ago I called Asia Rooms on their local Chonburi telephone number to book a hotel room in Korat for next Monday night at one of the Dusit Hotel properties called the Royal Princess Hotel. They told me since I would have Thai guests accompanying me that I might be charged a higher rate when I arrive at the hotel since their published online rates are only for overseas foreigners booking online. As a result, they told me it might be better off if I book directly to avoid problems.

I then called the local Dusit reservations number at 1699 to make a booking. They had no interest if there were Thai people in my party or not, so what Asia Rooms told me makes little sense. In addition, Asia Rooms had the cheapest room rate advertised online at US$45 for the hotel, which I thought was a deal for a 4-Star hotel. The Dusit just gave me a rate of 999 Baht per night (US$28) without any price negotiation at all.

Moral of the story? Go direct!

Also, Donna if you ever have any trouble finding the direct contact information for any hotel you are looking for, just go to www.thaitriptips.com - They have a free database of over 1,000 hotels in Thailand with direct hotel phone numbers and hotel web sites. Problem solved.

Edited May 31, 2007 by lopburi3
Edit font - lopburi3

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I am going to share some interesting information with you that I discovered about the somewhat deceptive practices of the online hotel booking sites in Thailand.

It starts with the fact that there is a problem travelers have when trying to locate the web site or contact details of Thai hotels using a search engine.

Donna, this is not the policy of R24 and you should complain to them about specific sites that you see:

Their policy - quoted from their website is this:

"Important: Domain names, related to specific hotel names are

NOT permitted in R24. Failure to comply will result removal of the

domain without prior notice. In severe or repeated cases,

the complete account will be terminated."

I suspect if you complain you will see the offending websites closed down.

These are times when anyone can put up a website in one hour or less - and there are a multitude of abuses by many people (not the booking agencies - the people) - and the best way to deal with it is to report it.

That will solve the problem much faster than posting here.

That may be so, but.......

Other sharp practices include; their use of Dynamic Currency Conversion(charging you in the currency of your Credit/Debit card and NOT the currency that they quote in{Thai baht} and doing so at an unfavourable exchange rate). Most people don't notice, as they are billed in their usual currency. They don't know it was a local bank that completed the conversion(instead of Visa/Mastercard) at a poor rate, who then shares the profits with Web Sawadee/R24/.........

Web Sawadee/R24 used to make no mention of their use of DCC(the requirement is to offer the consumer the choice of currencies), though after the pain of 'chargebacks', they now make mention of it, in very small print. on their final payment page. They still don't offer you a choice.

In addition, an extra 'booking fee' is levied towards the end of the transaction, despite never being mentioned beforehand.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Jiu-Jitsu

[Jiu-Jitsu]

It does appear that someone is abusing the booking system, by registering the domain name of the hotel and then sitting back and waiting for their commission cheques.

It certainly should be reported in the case of Grand Sea View.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Jiu-Jitsu

[Donna2005]

It sounds like a few individuals posting here actually believe that what I discovered is a one off fluke and possibly even unintentional on behalf of the booking site.

So let’s set the record even straighter. Go into Google and type in the keyword “th66.com”. It will return literally hundreds of Thai hotel domains being squatted on by Sawasdee.com, full stop.

But when you search for a hotel, why do these domain squatting sites appear first within the search results and well before the hotel’s own actual web site comes up?

It is because Sawasdee’s domain and page linking network is so well orchestrated that it fools the search engines into believing that the fake hotel web site is a far more popular web site than the hotel’s own web site. So this is why in a nutshell you see all these booking sites coming up way before the hotel’s own web site.

In the end it comes down to search engine optimization and there is no way the hotels actual web site will usually come up anywhere near the top of the search results, even if the domain name of the hotel’s own real web site is more pointed on the keywords.

To prove my point, I spent about 5 minutes searching in Google for Sawasdee.com squat sites. This is just the tip of the iceberg:

http://www.siambayviewhotel.com/

http://www.amariwatergatehotel.com/

http://www.pathumwanprincesshotel.com/

http://www.duangjittresort.com/

http://www.asiabungalows.com/

http://www.samuilagoonbay.com/

http://www.baansukhothaihotel.com/

http://www.royalbenjahotel.com/

http://www.tiparesort.com/

http://www.andamanlantaresort.com/

In conclusion, I don’t think people are quite grasping yet how deep the layers go on these type of practices, but hopefully the pieces are starting to fall into place.

[Arandora]

It sounds like a few individuals posting here actually believe that what I discovered is a one off fluke and possibly even unintentional on behalf of the booking site.

So let’s set the record even straighter. Go into Google and type in the keyword “th66.com”. It will return literally hundreds of Thai hotel domains being squatted on by Sawasdee.com, full stop.

But when you search for a hotel, why do these domain squatting sites appear first within the search results and well before the hotel’s own actual web site comes up?

It is because Sawasdee’s domain and page linking network is so well orchestrated that it fools the search engines into believing that the fake hotel web site is a far more popular web site than the hotel’s own web site. So this is why in a nutshell you see all these booking sites coming up way before the hotel’s own web site.

In the end it comes down to search engine optimization and there is no way the hotels actual web site will usually come up anywhere near the top of the search results, even if the domain name of the hotel’s own real web site is more pointed on the keywords.

To prove my point, I spent about 5 minutes searching in Google for Sawasdee.com squat sites. This is just the tip of the iceberg:

http://www.siambayviewhotel.com/

http://www.amariwatergatehotel.com/

http://www.pathumwanprincesshotel.com/

http://www.duangjittresort.com/

http://www.asiabungalows.com/

http://www.samuilagoonbay.com/

http://www.baansukhothaihotel.com/

http://www.royalbenjahotel.com/

http://www.tiparesort.com/

http://www.andamanlantaresort.com/

In conclusion, I don’t think people are quite grasping yet how deep the layers go on these type of practices, but hopefully the pieces are starting to fall into place.

What about AsiaRooms or PrecisionReservations? How do they fit into this? Do they do the same as Sawasdee?

Edited May 30, 2007 by Arandora

[Donna2005]

I don’t believe AsiaRooms are doing it. PrecisionReservations I am not familiar with.

But Asia Web Direct, which is also a large booking site operating mainly under Bangkok.com, Phuket.com, KoSamui.com (as well as a hundred or more other domains), does also squat on hotel domains as I have seen.

Asia Web Direct though is a bit more straight forward about their practices as I have seen them clearly place their logo at the bottom of the fake hotel web site they create so that you know it is a booking site and not the hotel’s own actual web site.

The problem, even though they are more forthcoming about their practices, is that (by squatting on domain names of hotels they do not own) they are still tying up search engine rankings on keyword searches when people are trying to fine the hotel’s actual web site. And by doing this, it prevents hotel customers from ever finding the hotel’s own web site.

So why so much emphasis on being able to get to the hotel’s actual web site? Well, the reasons are obvious to me, but one very important reason that has come to light through this forum post is that travelers need to be able to contact the hotels directly and compare rates against what the booking sites are offering.

Although not always the case, there have already been a number of documented examples where going to the hotel directly is much cheaper than booking through a hotel booking site. And this in itself is enough reason to want to contact the hotel directly.

By the way Colby, www.thaitriptips.com is definitely a great resource for contacting hotels in Thailand directly. I was not familiar with that site and it can be a valuable source of hotel information for those trying to contact hotels directly. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Donna2005

[thaidomain]

Some comments on this issue :

First of all, searches by Google are not always the best option. This is certainly true when looking for the websites of hotels.

Good old fashioned web directories may be a better resource here.

For example, over the past few years, we managed to collect more than 850 websites of hotels in Thailand at various locations :

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/thailandhotels.asp

Secondly, the websites of hotels, are often not made in a way that makes them easy to find with Google (or other) searches.

Often, very simple and old-fashioned coding is not used.

For example, the website you mentioned (http://www.grandseaviewbeachhotel.com/ ) does not offer a simple description or keywords in the coding.

The major flaw on the site, is that on the entry page, there is hardly any text. Search engines look for keywords in the text, to evaluate the content of particular pages. How can a site be found if hardly any data is present.

In general, the most obvious flaw for hotel websites, is that they have a entry page that uses flash. Flash data and content, as of now, can not properly be accessed by search engines. So any content there is not read or listed.

ThaiWebsites.com

[Arandora]

Some comments on this issue :

First of all, searches by Google are not always the best option. This is certainly true when looking for the websites of hotels.

Good old fashioned web directories may be a better resource here.

For example, over the past few years, we managed to collect more than 850 websites of hotels in Thailand at various locations :

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/thailandhotels.asp

Secondly, the websites of hotels, are often not made in a way that makes them easy to find with Google (or other) searches.

Often, very simple and old-fashioned coding is not used.

For example, the website you mentioned (http://www.grandseaviewbeachhotel.com/ ) does not offer a simple description or keywords in the coding.

The major flaw on the site, is that on the entry page, there is hardly any text. Search engines look for keywords in the text, to evaluate the content of particular pages. How can a site be found if hardly any data is present.

In general, the most obvious flaw for hotel websites, is that they have a entry page that uses flash. Flash data and content, as of now, can not properly be accessed by search engines. So any content there is not read or listed.

ThaiWebsites.com

I agree that I have found the actual websites of Thai hotels to be not as well constructed as other countries. The old addage "First impressions are lasting impressions" is one that good website designers closely observe. The translation into English often leaves much to be desired. Very often in my experience dates and rates quoted are well out of date. Hence many prospective customers will look at websites from booking agents promoting hotels that are far more accomplished.

[Donna2005]

The issue about local hotels not optimizing their web sites for search engines could be an issue affecting their rakings in some cases, this is true.

But the whole point of this post is that hotel booking sites are purposely squatting on Thai hotel domain names of hotels they don’t own for the sole purpose of making more hotel bookings.

Then, they are optimizing the sites they put up on these squatted on domains so that they rank better in the search engines than the hotels own web sites do. After all, the internet is their business and they know how to work the system better than local Thai hotels do when it comes to search engine optimization.

Then, last but not least, they are putting up web sites that look like a hotel’s own web site which would make an unsuspecting traveler think he/she has landed on the hotel’s own actual web site. So you think you have reached the hotel’s web site when in fact you haven’t at all. In my book, this is deceptive and unethical.

Anyway, I came across another quick handful of examples of these mock hotel sites setup on squatted hotel domain names. These are just for Pattaya City alone:

http://www.centurypattaya.com/

http://www.dragonbeachresort.com/

http://www.marklandhotel.com/

http://www.nakluabeachresort.com/

http://www.pattayagardenhotel.com/

[thaidomain]

Statement at r24.org :

Domain names, related to specific hotel names are

NOT permitted in R24. Failure to comply will result removal of the

domain without prior notice. In severe or repeated cases,

the complete account will be terminated.

If any hotel feels it is being wronged, their best way of action could probably be to contact r24.org

[[email protected]]

What is puzzling though is that when accessing the domain names of hotels mentioned in this topic, it is possible to make reservations through r24. This means that there is an agreement between that company and the hotel in question. Nobody is forced to have a relationship with a booking agency. Hotels that feel wronged could easily withdraw cooperation.

[Lancashirelad]

Just tried something which i've learned to do. When searching for anything in another country, use that countries search engines.

It just took just seconds to find that hotel's website.

I went to my default search engine: www.google.co.uk

typed in "yahoo asia"

went there, entered the hotel's name & location, it came up as result number 1 from 152,000

see here: http://tinyurl.com/ywcrwa

(the address was very long which would have made this page wide)