any meds must be declared at vax centre before being vaxxed !sheeesh……

still, as stated,  “temporary & minor” side effects only from vax or vax/ meds…….

”conditions” dont matter with (AZ) full vax ; you are FULLY protected from Death or Hospital …….

( source: FDA Phase 3 AZ Trials) 

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Does it bother me not really just amazed at the stupidity of the anti vax mob. Do you bother me not really i learned to accept you can't talk with certain kind of people like religious people / flat earthers / anti vaxers. This is a discussion forum I would be bored if there were no different opinions. However i like to base them on science.

 

The risk vs reward is indeed something that we all see differently however research has shown that wearing a helmet significantly helps you survive an accident and or lasting damage to the body. So its a proven fact it helps. I don't really see much reward besides not having to wear a helmet but at greater speeds a helmet just helps as its quite uncomfortable without one. 

 

I think there is a big difference between taking risks in business and work then those with diseases and safety. I can see monetary rewards and understand them. Don't really see the risk of taking a vaccine vs the risk of taking covid. Its almost always far safer to get vaccinated then to get covid. Just simple statistics and science. So I really don't see that one.

 

As for opening up, we seen how bad it can get so i think its a bad idea because people were dying in the streets because hospitals were overflowing. The risks of covid are not too bad with a functioning health system but with one that cant cope they change.

 

Anyway it was your choice to come here and leave your country where you had more freedoms. 

You don’t know anything about the vaccine though, except that it has proven safe for some months in patients. These vaccines usually go through years of testing. 
 

It’s strange because in your own post you mentioned taking the vaccine and being completely laid out with a fever and chattering teeth. And you think based on that reaction this was just some innocuous stuff you put in your body. Fine. I hope it is innocuous. But the point is that is obviously a very strong reaction your body has had. Who knows how something could manifest in the coming months. 

45 minutes ago, bookstore said:

I got the AZ the middle of June  got the first Pfizer early August and the 2nd Pfizer 3 days ago. all three went pretty good can't complain

Thanks. have chance due to admin crossed wires to switch to the Pfizer vaccine but first dose would be just three weeks after the Astra Zeneca first jab already administered so a tad undecided.

11 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Perhaps if you were living in Isreal, you might not think it nonsense,

as they are starting on their 4th dose, with infection numbers rising.

Medics over there must be using buckets of the stuff, all 95% 'effective'??

 

 

The nonsense was the statement that the vaccine is not working. Well if they plan to roll out 4th vaccines there must be a reason for it. Also it has proven effective at reducing deaths in the UK. Then you start on some 45 gallon drum silliness. Israel had just 8 deaths yesterday....it's recovery rate is 99.3%....

Israel is teaching us even the much heralded Pfizer has limited efficacy. There is also a  hard line of resistance to vaccination, and pilgrims returning with fake negative test papers... but I struggle to get data on that. 

On 9/9/2021 at 3:23 PM, Saltire said:

Wifes 2 brothers had their second (AZ) jab after the SV 3 weeks ago. Brother A had a sore arm for a day after SV and nothing at all after AZ

 

Other brother had all the side effects after both jabs, but subsided after a few days. He went to the local clinic for some meds as he is never sick in the past and was a bit worried. He's back at work planting trees today.

 

Wife and I had SV 2 weeks ago, me, no side effects at all, wife dead arm for a few days.

 

AZ in a weeks time, hope the odds are in our favour. I'd rather be sick from a vaccine than from covid any day.

 

 

 "...   I'd rather be sick from a vaccine than from covid any day."

 

Best comment this year, well done. 

14 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

any meds must be declared at vax centre before being vaxxed !sheeesh……

still, as stated,  “temporary & minor” side effects only from vax or vax/ meds…….

”conditions” dont matter with (AZ) full vax ; you are FULLY protected from Death or Hospital …….

( source: FDA Phase 3 AZ Trials) 

Nobody even asked me.

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, mommysboy said:

The incidence of severe blood clotting with AZ is almost insignificant now.

Is there still a chance? Sounds serious to me. 

15 hours ago, sucit said:

You don’t know anything about the vaccine though, except that it has proven safe for some months in patients. These vaccines usually go through years of testing. 
 

It’s strange because in your own post you mentioned taking the vaccine and being completely laid out with a fever and chattering teeth. And you think based on that reaction this was just some innocuous stuff you put in your body. Fine. I hope it is innocuous. But the point is that is obviously a very strong reaction your body has had. Who knows how something could manifest in the coming months. 

No what is strange after millions upon millions have been vaccinated and no strange things have happened. Sure there were side effects but all vaccines have side effects. Yes I was hit pretty badly for 1.5 day.. wow the standard respons to a vaccine your body creating antibodies and sometimes that comes with a fever. You know fever a common side effect.

 

I find it all relatively tame compared to the effects of covid and long covid. Especially long covid worries me and is something that happens in 10% of the covid cases.

 

Some months.. the vaccines have been out for over a year. That is not some months. Talk about twisting facts. Antivaxers such a strange crowd. 

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Is there still a chance? Sounds serious to me. 

Ehh.. for instance female on anti conception has a MUCH larger chance on blood clotting problems. So what is serious blood clotting.. yes its serious however how many times does it occur and what risk is higher, that of covid or that of the vaccine. That is the real question. Its just a risk calculation nothing more nothing less.

33 minutes ago, robblok said:

Ehh.. for instance female on anti conception has a MUCH larger chance on blood clotting problems. So what is serious blood clotting.. yes its serious however how many times does it occur and what risk is higher, that of covid or that of the vaccine. That is the real question. Its just a risk calculation nothing more nothing less.

So there is little chance of dying when taking Astra, thanks. 

41 minutes ago, robblok said:

No what is strange after millions upon millions have been vaccinated and no strange things have happened. Sure there were side effects but all vaccines have side effects. Yes I was hit pretty badly for 1.5 day.. wow the standard respons to a vaccine your body creating antibodies and sometimes that comes with a fever. You know fever a common side effect.

 

I find it all relatively tame compared to the effects of covid and long covid. Especially long covid worries me and is something that happens in 10% of the covid cases.

 

Some months.. the vaccines have been out for over a year. That is not some months. Talk about twisting facts. Antivaxers such a strange crowd. 

What I would do is look up how long vaccines are normally tested for. Then I would also ask myself why doctors are being told not to give patients “misinformation” about the vaccine. Doctors are literally being forced to recommend jabs at the pain, or at least subversive threat, of losing their jobs. Of course they are all going to recommend it. 

 

Its funny because you essentially trust government and big pharma if you have taken an unproven vaccine. Ok… I totally support that. Just point out we aren’t the “strange bunch”. The strange ones are those who are trusting, without question, the very people who have screwed the world over every single time, without fail. 
 

I find there is all together too many points to make, haha, but you took a vaccine very early too. There is evidence now that people letting their own bodies fight the infection are much better off in the long run against future infections. It’s not to say I am right or you are right, just that we simply don’t know yet. That is the key fact that people such as yourself outright deny, for whatever reason. 

Edited September 11, 20214 yr by sucit

Just now, Neeranam said:

So there is little chance of dying when taking Astra, thanks. 

Far less so then dying of covid so for ME the choice is easy. I mean seatbelts can kill in certain situations too but in most they save lives i was fortunate enough to find out (unfortunate to have the accident). I would wear a seatbelt even when it was not mandatory.

 

Cold hard numbers don't really lie. Have you ever noticed how the anti vaxers are always talking about unknown side effects years in the future. First it was that people would die by the droves from the vaccine, when that did not happen (yes people died but not many died because of the vaccine compared to covid and what they stated) they started going on about the future. I mean that way they could again put up resistance as there are no facts about it yet. However if in a few years that does not happen then they will say but its even further down the road. I mean they just shift goal posts whenever its too hard to argue against cold hard facts.

 

Now some members who only made an account to spread anti covid non sense suddenly started worrying about kids (even when it was clear they had no kids themselves) just so they could find something that is controversial and where proof is not yet there. Whatever it takes to justify themselves. 

 

 

46 minutes ago, robblok said:

Ehh.. for instance female on anti conception has a MUCH larger chance on blood clotting problems. So what is serious blood clotting.. yes its serious however how many times does it occur and what risk is higher, that of covid or that of the vaccine. That is the real question. Its just a risk calculation nothing more nothing less.

Yes, but you did not have any information to assess risk on. You are in such denial about this and don’t even realize it. What are your long term risks? Real answer…. We don’t know. 
 

Again, trusting big pharma and govt probably isn’t going to put you in the smart money category in the long run. Maybe that is not the end all be all answer, but I think it is a pretty strong one to argue your way out of. I mean there is no answer to that… we all know big pharma and gifts do not care about us in the slightest. 
 

Take my opinion for example, and I have seen some of your previous posts on health/fitness so I can relate… fighting this is a matter of keeping in great shape in my opinion. Let your natural defenses do the rest. Food, exercise, sun… it seems insulin levels have been important for example. Anyway, just different strokes I guess.
 

My main point is you guys insist you are basing your decision off some sort of information and that is absolutely, 100% wrong. You are basing your decision off of faith in govt and big pharma. 

Edited September 11, 20214 yr by sucit

1 minute ago, sucit said:

What I would do is look up how long vaccines are normally tested for. Then I would also ask myself why doctors are being told not to give patients “misinformation” about the vaccine. Doctors are literally being forced to recommend jabs at the pain, or at least subversive threat, of losing their jobs. Of course they are all going to recommend it. 

 

Its funny because you essentially trust government and big pharma if you have taken an unproven vaccine. Ok… I totally support that. Just point out we aren’t the “strange bunch”. The strange ones are those who are trusting, without question, the very people who have screwed the world over every single time, without fail. 

Doctors are forced to, not to give misinformation. I would say that is a good thing. We had only a few idiot doctors, but the large majority supports vaccination. I wholeheartedly support doctors being removed if they give out misinformation on anything. Fact remains that vaccines were one of the best ways to eradicate certain fatal diseases in my country. But not under the religious nuts we have and as a result kids in the Dutch bible belt died. So much for anti vaxers being right.

 

I do trust the governments because you are suggesting a world wide cover up involving all governments just to line the pockets of big pharma. The idea alone of such a cover up world wide conspiracy are just to stupid to even contemplate. Most governments cannot agree on anything but all of a sudden the whole world is involved in a huge coverup to push a vaccine they know is bad just to line the pockets of big pharma. I mean to believe that is so crazy, just like its crazy to assume that the majority of scientists (large majority) are all paid off to support vaccines they don't believe in and as a result manipulate the news. Because that is what your saying.

2 minutes ago, sucit said:

Yes, but you did not have any information to assess risk on. You are in such denial about this and don’t even realize it. What are your long term risks? Real answer…. We don’t know. 
 

Again, trusting big pharma and govt probably isn’t going to put you in the smart money category in the long run. Maybe that is not the end all be all answer, but I think it is a pretty strong one to argue your way out of. I mean there is no answer to that… we all know big pharma and gifts do not care about us in the slightest. 

See previous post about how likely it is that there is a world wide coverup. Hell in Thailand alone they cannot even cover up their corruption under a restrictive government. Things always surface and all of a sudden its plausible a world wide coverup would work. Delusional to say the least. 

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Doctors are forced to, not to give misinformation. I would say that is a good thing. We had only a few idiot doctors, but the large majority supports vaccination. I wholeheartedly support doctors being removed if they give out misinformation on anything. Fact remains that vaccines were one of the best ways to eradicate certain fatal diseases in my country. But not under the religious nuts we have and as a result kids in the Dutch bible belt died. So much for anti vaxers being right.

 

I do trust the governments because you are suggesting a world wide cover up involving all governments just to line the pockets of big pharma. The idea alone of such a cover up world wide conspiracy are just to stupid to even contemplate. Most governments cannot agree on anything but all of a sudden the whole world is involved in a huge coverup to push a vaccine they know is bad just to line the pockets of big pharma. I mean to believe that is so crazy, just like its crazy to assume that the majority of scientists (large majority) are all paid off to support vaccines they don't believe in and as a result manipulate the news. Because that is what your saying.

You are completely blind and missing the point. This is 1984 stuff. Doctors are only allowed to give their opinion if it fits the govts narrative. You can think that is fine but I’m just saying you have problems if you do. What if you got censored every time some arbitrary body thought you were wrong. 
 

Just not getting it. It’s obvious. It’s denial. Clear as day. You can’t see that more doctors would recommend for example kids not get the shot, or that you look into it more or whatever. Doctors are being censored from giving their true opinion, and you think this is good! Not much else to say. 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

See previous post about how likely it is that there is a world wide coverup. Hell in Thailand alone they cannot even cover up their corruption under a restrictive government. Things always surface and all of a sudden its plausible a world wide coverup would work. Delusional to say the least. 

We don’t know the long term effects of this vaccine. Fact. 
 

Vaccines are normally tested for up to a decade. These are facts. This one rolled out this year and completely broke the mold as far as testing procedures go. And, why do we have those procedures? If the procedures mean nothing, why can’t we just skip them every time? These procedures have been developed through experience and past mistakes, over decades. Thereinlie your answers. 

People are trusting big pharma but big pharma doesn’t trust their own work. Why would they not accept responsibility for ill effects if they were confident in the product? If anyone is unaware this is unheard of when it comes to other products… developers have to accept responsibility for their products to some extent. Here, the responsibility is 0. Why is that? 

Edited September 11, 20214 yr by sucit

1 minute ago, sucit said:

You are completely blind and missing the point. This is 1984 stuff. Doctors are only allowed to give their opinion if it fits the govts narrative. You can think that is fine but I’m just saying you have problems if you do. What if you got censored every time some arbitrary body thought you were wrong. 
 

Just not getting it. It’s obvious. It’s denial. Clear as day. You can’t see that more doctors would recommend for example kids not get the shot, or that you look into it more or whatever. Doctors are being censored from giving their true opinion, and you think this is good! Not much else to say. 

Right, you really lost it if you think that doctors ALL OVER THE WORLD are being forced by the government to accept lies instead of facts. They only make the doctors give advice based on FACTS collected by SCIENTISTS. Instead of having it based on fake stuff and fears that people like you have.

 

I think we should agree to disagree i have found out that anti vaxers like religious nuts can never be convinced. No matter how stupid their reasoning is. I am actually happy that Darwin takes care of some the anti vaxers like the American going to a covid party and dying, and a well known anti vaxer getting covid dying in the hospital. Its probably the only way to shut them see the error of their ways. 

 

So sorry I will add you to the list of nutcases that I am unable to have a discussion with based on facts and science as its impossible as your kind believes all scientists are lying and paid off by big pharmay and only the few outliers who are in a huge minority are right. 

Just now, sucit said:

People are trusting big pharma but big pharma doesn’t trust their own work. Why would they not accept responsibility for ill effects if they were confident in the product? 

???? You mean just like almost every other business who limits their exposure to risk ?

 

There is no such thing as a medicine without side effects, as long as the cure is better as the disease its simple. Now had there been as many deaths by the vaccine as covid caused then you had a point. Will you also attack other medicine that save countless of lives and do kill a few as no medicine is ever safe. Should those medicine then not be used even though it saves more people then it harms ?

 

Like my seatbelt example for instance its hard to deny it saves more lives then it kills but do you think that gives those that are killed because they wore a seatbelt a right to sue car manufacturers for placing them in their cars ?

Big pharma is no saint and when they break rules and hide side effects because it could hurt their sales that is a different thing. If a pharma company knows about a side effect but does not report on it, hides it even then yes they should be responsible. 

 

Not when side effects they know about and tell the truth about occur. Because then they are being honest and people have the information to either vaccinate or not vaccinate or either use or not use a medicine. 

 

If doctors are forced to tell people the real risk based on the available data from scientists instead of relying on some doggy reports from antivaxers then yes I am all for it. Doctors must give advice based on research and data available not based on their own opinion. 

 

If a doctor tells a sick patient not to take a certain medicine based on his beliefs rather than on the current medical evidence then yes punish him unless he can prove he is right of course. Plenty of quack doctors have killed people based on their beliefs instead of trusting medical data and evidence. Many of those have successfully been taken to courti don't see why its any different with vaccines. 

 

Its no different in my job, if I don't follow the accepted rules in my job and a client suffers because of it i can get punished or held liable. I just can't do what I want I need to follow rules too based on what is normal at the time.

 

Just imagine going to a garage that needs to do certain checks and a garage omits those checks because they don't believe they are needed and you get into an accident that is caused by not checking or doing things following the norm they can be taken to court and pressured too. Again how is that any different from doctors going against the knowledge and guidelines at the time. 

24 minutes ago, robblok said:

Right, you really lost it if you think that doctors ALL OVER THE WORLD are being forced by the government to accept lies instead of facts. They only make the doctors give advice based on FACTS collected by SCIENTISTS. Instead of having it based on fake stuff and fears that people like you have.

 

I think we should agree to disagree i have found out that anti vaxers like religious nuts can never be convinced. No matter how stupid their reasoning is. I am actually happy that Darwin takes care of some the anti vaxers like the American going to a covid party and dying, and a well known anti vaxer getting covid dying in the hospital. Its probably the only way to shut them see the error of their ways. 

 

So sorry I will add you to the list of nutcases that I am unable to have a discussion with based on facts and science as its impossible as your kind believes all scientists are lying and paid off by big pharmay and only the few outliers who are in a huge minority are right. 

Doctors don’t even know the long term effects of the vaccine, so how on earth can they recommend it? Questions like this have not dawned on you? 
 

I’m saying doctors are being coerced into one sided views by pain of fear of losing their job. Of course they all comply. 
 

Here is a question for you… how many covid decisions by govt officials all over the world have been good ones in your estimation? You seem to be very trusting of govts but I would say basically every country has botched it. They admit it! They change their mind mid decision etc. Now… knowing this information that govts have botched everything, you trust them with the decision to hastily release the vaccine?! They have made every wrong decision in the book due to public pressure and fear of losing their jobs… but this one they got correct, right? It’s denial bro. You are in denial plain and simple, believe me. Please answer some of those questions for yourself. How on earth can you believe doctors would be so adamant to recommend an long term, unproven vaccine? Lol

After that all sinks in, there is only one thing left to consider. 
 

You see, this is a lopsided debate. I could care less if rob lock jabs himself 40 times with every vaccine on earth. Have at it. I hope it works out well for you. 
 

This is where the debate really begins, because if you are thinking, and asking questions like “how can doctors be universally recommending an unproved quantity” (answer, because they are forced to, which rob lock thinks is good lol), then you know you have a tough call to make. How old you are, how good a shape you are in, where you work… all valid criteria to consider. 
 

But that is the entire point, each person obviously has to be given the right to consider that information. That’s the difference here, and that is what the entire debate hinges upon: robblock wants me to be compelled to think like him, yet want rob lock to do whatever the hell he thinks is best.
 

He KNOWS what is right, otherwise how/why would he compel me to vax?! I, on the other hand, am saying we don’t the long term effects of the vaccine, which is a fact, and each person should be able to consider the benefits and drawbacks without compelled testimony of doctors and media. 
 

Big difference. You basically want to force your beliefs onto others, and I want everyone to do what they think is best for them. It is quite literally the equivalent of forcing a Christian to be Buddha. That’s your stance and your error, and like I am saying, you dont even realize it unfortunately. 

49 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am actually happy that Darwin takes care of some the anti vaxers like the American going to a covid party and dying, and a well known anti vaxer getting covid dying in the hospital. Its probably the only way to shut them see the error of their ways. 

Can't believe you're actually  happy (almost gloating) about people dying  because they don't share the same view as you ! 

20 minutes ago, johng said:

Can't believe you're actually  happy (almost gloating) about people dying  because they don't share the same view as you ! 

Its their views that got them killed proving that i was right and they were wrong. You can't convince anti vaxers anyway so if their view gets them killed I have no pity at all. Especially not because they convince others who in term take risks. The guy who died last was a big anti vaxer influencing countless. So him dying of covid could actually save lives. 

 

So sorry I don't feel guilty about people doing stupid things. If i go skinny dipping with great white sharks and I get eaten for instance I would not expect people to feel guilty but learn from my mistakes. So that others don't try the same stupid things that got me killed. Unfortunately that is how some people have to learn things. You can't convince anti vaxers of anything the normal way so its only Darwins way that helps.

 

If i ride without a helmet and get killed because of it please make fun of me and call me stupid because that is what I am and if just one person learns from its enough. Why should people always pity other peoples stupid choices ? Should they not learn from them instead.

Edited September 11, 20214 yr by robblok

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Its their views that got them killed proving that i was right and they were wrong. You can't convince anti vaxers anyway so if their view gets them killed I have no pity at all. Especially not because they convince others who in term take risks. The guy who died last was a big anti vaxer influencing countless. So him dying of covid could actually save lives. 

 

So sorry I don't feel guilty about people doing stupid things. If i go skinny dipping with great white sharks and I get eaten for instance I would not expect people to feel guilty but learn from my mistakes. So that others don't try the same stupid things that got me killed. Unfortunately that is how some people have to learn things. You can't convince anti vaxers of anything the normal way so its only Darwins way that helps.

 

If i ride without a helmet and get killed because of it please make fun of me and call me stupid because that is what I am and if just one person learns from its enough. Why should people always pity other peoples stupid choices ? Should they not learn from them instead.

Motorcycle helmets have many years of data backing their efficacy. The vaccine has no data for its long term effects. 

 

You don’t seem to wanna get this. That is denial. 

13 minutes ago, sucit said:

Motorcycle helmets have many years of data backing their efficacy.

It seems hemets are not as efficiant as you believe.

 

Quote

motorcycle helmets are 35 percent effective in preventing fatality, 26 percent effective in preventing injuries at least serious enough to require transport to the hospital ED [Emergency Department], and 9 percent effective in preventing all injury.”

 

On 9/9/2021 at 3:24 PM, talahtnut said:

Israel, the most vaccinated country on earth.

Times of Israel-

srael should begin preparing for the eventual rollout of the fourth dose

of the coronavirus vaccine, the national pandemic coordinator said.

One could assume the vaccine is not working as advertised and

devout vaxxers here might consider ordering 45 gallon drums of

your favourite vaccine brew in the interests of economy.

 

 

 

Get a dose of vaccine (to reduce the chance of death/hospitalisation) then wait to get infected. Natural infection is broader and better. I would only consider a booster if a year had lapsed since the first shot and I hadn't been infected in the interim.

3 hours ago, sucit said:

Doctors don’t even know the long term effects of the vaccine, so how on earth can they recommend it? Questions like this have not dawned on you? 
 

I’m saying doctors are being coerced into one sided views by pain of fear of losing their job. Of course they all comply. 
 

Here is a question for you… how many covid decisions by govt officials all over the world have been good ones in your estimation? You seem to be very trusting of govts but I would say basically every country has botched it. They admit it! They change their mind mid decision etc. Now… knowing this information that govts have botched everything, you trust them with the decision to hastily release the vaccine?! They have made every wrong decision in the book due to public pressure and fear of losing their jobs… but this one they got correct, right? It’s denial bro. You are in denial plain and simple, believe me. Please answer some of those questions for yourself. How on earth can you believe doctors would be so adamant to recommend an long term, unproven vaccine? Lol

What long term effects do you think happen? The contents of the vaccine are destroyed by the body within 2 weeks of vaccination. There is NOTHING left in the tissues to cause problems. Only antibodies remain, and they decrease over time. So if you have information that states otherwise, please post it. 

15 hours ago, jacko45k said:

but I struggle to get data on that. 

Double agreement with that, my mum told me not to believe governments

or news media, so, searching Pfizer company history, as anyone can, I was

disappointed to find an enormous 'rap sheet' of what could be described

as a criminal organisation, therefore, casting doubt on their data.