Are expats being tempted by Thailand?

[Cherrytreeview]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

Please, who in their right mind chooses voluntarily to spend time in Ireland?

 

Ireland's winters are mild? It can dip as low as -17 degrees in December in Ireland! What are you smoking? -19 in January!

 

You wouldn't be going anyway, there's no ladyboys.

[Tanomazu]

3 minutes ago, Cherrytreeview said:

You wouldn't be going anyway, there's no ladyboys.

Because it's too ice cold!

 

Minus 19 in Jan, minus 17 in Feb, minus 17 in Dec, minus 17 in March...

 

How is that not ice cold?

 

Still, at least there's the great food options in County Mayo ????

Edited September 22, 2021 by Tanomazu

[EricTh]

On 9/10/2021 at 7:39 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Thailand's Visa Requirements are not difficult, especially for the "Rich" as they have a number of options available to them (Elite/Investment Visas being the 2 obvious ones),

I haven't met any people on elite or investment visa at all.

 

If they exists, they are very rare. Most foreigners I met are on retirement visas/extension, married to Thai people, student visas or backpackers.

 

I doubt that many rich people would want to come to Thailand with its photo-copying madness, 90 days report, not allowed to buy house on land etc.

 

Let's face it, most foreigners who come to Thailand are poor or medium class.

Edited September 22, 2021 by EricTh

[Tanomazu]

5 minutes ago, EricTh said:

I haven't met any people on elite or investment visa at all.

 

If they exists, they are very rare. Most foreigners I met are on retirement visas/extension, married to Thai people, student visas or backpackers.

 

I doubt that many rich people would want to come to Thailand with its photo-copying madness, 90 days report, not allowed to buy house on land etc.

 

Let's face it, most foreigners who come to Thailand are poor or medium class.

The main reason the  billionaires would not flock to Thailand is no doubt the political instability.

 

Plus they would be liable to tax of 35% after 180 days.

[Mike Teavee]

22 minutes ago, EricTh said:

I haven't met any people on elite or investment visa at all.

 

If they exists, they are very rare. Most foreigners I met are on retirement visas/extension, married to Thai people, student visas or backpackers.

 

I doubt that many rich people would want to come to Thailand with its photo-copying madness, 90 days report, not allowed to buy house on land etc.

Neither have I, in fact all my mates here are on Non-B (Work Permit) or Marriage Visas, I'm the only one that's here on the Non-O "Retirement" visa (& I have no problem doing my annual extension)

 

My point was that if you are "Rich" then Thailand offers you some very easy routes to live here (as do many other countries in the world, including UK, EU, US, Singapore etc... it's just their definition of "Rich" might be different).

 

. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mike Teavee
spelling

[Mike Teavee]

17 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

The main reason the  billionaires would not flock to Thailand is no doubt the political instability.

 

Plus they would be liable to tax of 35% after 180 days.

Why would they be liable for Tax after 180 days? I live here year round & the only tax I pay is on the interest from my Thai bank account & I only pay that because I can't be bothered to register for a Tax ID number to claim it back. 

 

If you earn money outside of Thailand & don't bring that money into Thailand within the same year (1st Jan - 31st Dec) that you earned it then there's no tax to pay. 

 

Some people (Anybody remember @Nam, what happened to him btw, as I haven't seen any posts from him for a long time) retire to Thailand because they don't have to pay tax on their worldwide income. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mike Teavee

[Tanomazu]

10 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Why would they be liable for Tax after 180 days? I live here year round & the only tax I pay is on the interest from my Thai bank account & I only pay that because I can't be bothered to register for a Tax ID number & get it back. 

 

If you earn money outside of Thailand & don't bring that money into Thailand within the same year (1st Jan - 31st Dec) that you earned it then there's no tax to pay. 

 

People (Anybody remember Nam, what happened to him btw, hope he's ok as his account here seems to be defunct) retire to Thailand because they don't  have to pay tax on their worldwide income. 

 

 

Because Thai law stipulates that anyone who resides in Thailand for longer than 180 days is resident for tax purposes and unlike you extremely wealthy people tend to have positions in corporate entities that pay them income. Thailand does tax wages that are paid, even when paid abroad.

 

Whilst you're right that tax is only enforced if the money is brought into Thailand in the same year that probably would not work with the extremely wealthy who, like Johnny Depp, blow 2 million a month. Then to fund that kind of lifestyle you'd have to access cash that was earned in the same year presumably.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Tanomazu

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, Tanomazu said:

Because Thai law stipulates that anyone who resides in Thailand for longer than 180 days is resident for tax purposes and unlike you extremely wealthy people tend to have positions in corporate entities that pay them income. Thailand does tax wages that are paid, even when paid abroad.

 

Whilst you're right that tax is only enforced if the money is brought into Thailand in the same year that probably would not work with the extremely wealthy who, like Johnny Depp, blow 2 million a month. Then fund that kind of lifestyle you'd have to access cash that was earned in the same year presumably.

Everybody who works in Thailand should pay Tax in Thailand but we're not talking about that, we're talking about internationally wealthy guys so even if they're employed & still earning a salary outside of Thailand, it's nothing to do with Thailand. 

 

To use your example, somebody like Johnny Depp spending 2Million THB pm that he earned from Edward Scissor hands wouldn't need to pay tax even if he makes money from other income steams (outside of Thailand) this year, but if he made a movie & moved the money here this year then he should pay tax on it... 

 

 

Fact is you only need to pay tax on income in Thailand if you earn it here or you earn it elsewhere & bring it into Thailand in the same calendar year 

 

 

[Tanomazu]

9 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Everybody who works in Thailand should pay Tax in Thailand but we're not talking about that, we're talking about internationally wealthy guys so even if they're employed & still earning a salary outside of Thailand, it's nothing to do with Thailand.

 

That's not correct. Like most countries Thailand taxes world-wide income.

 

You're right that the tax only applies if they bring the money into Thailand in the year that they made the money, however, if the wealthy have 2 million USD expenses per month, and most of their wealth is tied up in private island, real estate, shares, yachts, car collection, etc, then presumably some of the money made in the year has to fund these exorbitant monthly expenses, just for cash flow reasons.

 

So why would the rich move to Thailand if they can have 0% on income THIS year in many tax havens like BVI, Cayman etc?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Tanomazu

[EricTh]

28 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Why would they be liable for Tax after 180 days? I live here year round & the only tax I pay is on the interest from my Thai bank account & I only pay that because I can't be bothered to register for a Tax ID number to claim it back. 

 

Don't forget that we also pay the 7% sales tax on almost everything that we buy.

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

That's not correct. Like most countries Thailand taxes world-wide income.

 

You're right that the tax only applies if they bring the money into Thailand in the year that they made the money, however, if the wealthy have 2 million USD expenses per month, and most of their wealth is tied up in private island, real estate, shares, yachts, car collection, etc, then presumably some of the money made in the year has to fund these exorbitant monthly expenses, just for cash flow reasons.

I honestly doubt there are many truely rich individuals who couldn't point to overseas monies to prove that they didn't bring any monies into Thailand in the current calendar year but if there are, I'm sure they have creative accountants that can prove that they didn't ????

 

For us plebs, as long as we can keep at least 1 year's spends in our home country before bringing it over then we don't have to worry about Tax in Thailand though I now would like a refund from the tax I paid on interest in the bank... 

 

  

 

[Mike Teavee]

6 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Don't forget that we also pay the 7% sales tax on almost everything that we buy.

 

Better than 20% VAT we'd pay in the UK ???? 

[Mike Teavee]

45 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

So why would the rich move to Thailand if they can have 0% on income THIS year in many tax havens like BVI, Cayman etc?

Sorry your edit appeared after my reply... 

 

To be clear the "RIch" can earn as much money as they want/can & as long as none of it is brought into Thailand in the same calendar year as it was earned will pay 0% (Thailand) tax on any of it... 

 

So if Elon M/Jeff B/Bill G decided they wanted to hang up their spurs & retire to Thailand whilst still earning a $squillion per year, Thailand would tax them nothing as long as the money they bring over in this calendar year (1/1 -31/12) was earned in a previous year. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Mike Teavee

[Tanomazu]

33 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Sorry your edit appeared after my reply... 

 

To be clear the "RIch" can earn as much money as they want/can & as long as none of it is brought into Thailand in the same calendar year as it was earned will pay 0% (Thailand) tax on any of it... 

 

So if Elon M/Jeff B/Bill G decided they wanted to hang up their spurs & retire to Thailand whilst still earning a $squillion per year, Thailand would tax them nothing as long as the money they bring over in this calendar year (1/1 -31/12) was earned in a previous year. 

 

 

Yes, but if they establish their domicile in BVI and Cayman they can use money they make at any time, including this year, to fund their expensive yachts, properties, cars etc. Why would they put up with a restriction not to use income earned in the current year, when they can have it completely free any time they want in a tax haven?

 

It just wouldn't make sense. Especially if you consider that even if they have their domicile in Cayman they can still spend 5 months in Thailand if they like, or anywhere else. It doesn't mean they have to live in the tax haven all year round.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

37 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Yes, but if they establish their domicile in BVI and Cayman they can use money they make at any time, including this year, to fund their expensive yachts, properties, cars etc. Why would they put up with a restriction not to use income earned in the current year, when they can have it completely free any time they want in a tax haven?

 

It just wouldn't make sense. Especially if you consider that even if they have their domicile in Cayman they can still spend 5 months in Thailand if they like, or anywhere else. It doesn't mean they have to live in the tax haven all year round.

 

 

I'm by no means rich, but I'm using money I earned > 12 years ago to fund this years spends... Do you really think that "Rich" people give a seconds thought to which year the money was earned?  Even if they did earn it this year (sort of implies living hand-to-mouth), the "Rich" have accountants that will make it look like it wasn't

 

End of the day, anybody with any kind of Wealth wouldn't give a moments thought about Thailand's income tax save that they could use it to save money in their home country (I do), the taxes that might hurt them are ones on improrted wines/cars etc... I could never see myself paying 4Million THB for a BMW that I could buy for £40K in the UK, no matter how much money I had, it's the principle of the thing. 

 

  

 

[Tanomazu]

21 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

End of the day, anybody with any kind of Wealth wouldn't give a moments thought about Thailand's income tax save that they could use it to save money in their home country (I do), the taxes that might hurt them are ones on improrted wines/cars etc... I could never see myself paying 4Million THB for a BMW that I could buy for £40K in the UK, no matter how much money I had, it's the principle of the thing. 

 

  

 

I think that's not the case. If you have millions of income every year obviously you'd be highly sensitive to a place where you can potentially be liable to income tax at 35%, even if that only applies to money you bring into the country in a specific year. Obviously having a domicile in a 0% income tax jurisdiction, at any time, is far preferable, if you have millions coming in each year.

 

And if your expenses are in the range of 2 million USD a month then for cash flow reasons you may need to use millions you earn this year, if your money is tied up in real estate, private island, shares, business investments. It's a liquidity point.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Tanomazu said:

I think that's not the case. If you have millions of income every year obviously you'd be highly sensitive to a place where you can potentially be liable to income tax at 35%, even if that only applies to money you bring into the country in a specific year. Obviously having a domicile in a 0% income tax jurisdiction, at any time, is far preferable, if you have millions coming in each year.

 

And if your expenses are in the range of 2 million USD a month then for cash flow reasons you may need to use millions you earn this year, if your money is tied up in real estate, private island, shares, business investments. It's a liquidity point.

 

 

Wrong Wrong Wrong... 

 

I have no where near the kind of incomes but still had accountants that sorted out my (vastly more complex) tax return for me... 

 

Give it up fella, the guys you're ta;lking about have very different financial problems than we do....  

 

 

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

I have no where near the kind of incomes but still had accountants that sorted out my (vastly more complex) tax return for me...

Most people have accountants, so do I, however, the point is rather that accountants can get things wrong. A lot. And if you get it wrong in Thailand you can be on the hook for a 35% income tax liability. If you get it wrong in Cayman Islands or BVI you'd have zero income tax liability.

 

You're quite wrong to believe that people with real money would not be sensitive to Thailand's 35% income tax.

[stickyrice2000]

Thailand is not attractive like before.  There may be some expats interested though.

[Mike Teavee]

6 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Most people have accountants, so do I, however, the point is rather that accountants can get things wrong. A lot. And if you get it wrong in Thailand you can be on the hook for a 35% income tax liability. If you get it wrong in Cayman Islands or BVI you'd have zero income tax liability.

 

You're quite wrong to believe that people with real money would not be sensitive to Thailand's 35% income tax.

We'll have to agree to disagree but if you're paying income tax in Thailand on earnings not directly earned here you're doing it all wrong... 

 

 

 

[Dalewhatdale]

On 9/16/2021 at 8:36 AM, Tanomazu said:

Really.
 

"The Policia Nacional has taken down an international pickpocketing gang which preyed on tourists in Mallorca.

 

A total of 34 members, all of Romanian nationality, were arrested during multiple raids across the island yesterday."

 

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/08/12/police-arrest-34-members-of-romanian-pickpocketing-gang-who-preyed-on-tourists-in-spains-mallorca/

 

Crime gangs with 34 members, all Romanian, not a problem. Okay. That's probably why the police arrested them then, because they're not a problem?

 

"Palma caught up in Romania mafia ring

 

SPANISH police have arrested a mafia ring of nearly 300 Romanians, two being picked up in Palma, in one of their biggest operations against foreign criminals. The network was organised by one leader, known as Iorgu I or Talanu, with several lieutenants, and operated in eight of Spain's 17 regions, the Interior Ministry said yesterday. “The crimes for which these mafia groups are accused include violent robbery, forgery and fraudulent use of credit cards, drug trafficking, falsifying documents, illegal possession of weapons, prostitution and offences against worker rights,” Interior Minister Jose Antonio Alonso told a news conference."

 

https://www.majorcadailybulletin.com/news/local/2013/03/23/13582/palma-caught-romania-mafia-ring.html

 

So organized Romanian crime gangs of THREE HUNDRED Romanians engaging in violent robbery not a problem then. Okay. That'll be why the Spanish police conducted a nationwide operation to arrest them then, because they're not a problem.

 

"A united nations of crime’: how Marbella became a magnet for gangsters"

 

The new international crime organisations have made Marbella their centre of operations. And as violence rises, the police lag far behind.

 

“The Costa del Sol is a kind of hub, or ‘coworking’ space, where almost every major criminal group in the world has some sort of presence,” a senior National police agent investigating organised crime told us.

 

The rise in lethal violence is worrying the region’s security forces. “

 

Last August was an especially bad month: “Eastern European gangs were breaking into homes all the time,” Álvarez-Ossorio said. “There were robberies and assaults happening constantly. We call it ‘black August’, and I think it was really a turning point.”

 

A resident of an upmarket suburb in Marbella, who asked not to be identified by name, said she’s afraid to leave anything of value in her home. “I wear a lot of bracelets,” the woman said, showing off each one and noting its value, each in the tens of thousands of euros. “And when I go running, I cover them up with a wrist band. I don’t leave them in the house.” Asked if she ever thinks about moving, she said: “Yes. In fact, I’m sure that’s what I’ll end up doing.”

 

The Costa del Sol is home to more than 100 different criminal organisations. They range from extremely powerful, tightly structured mafias, like the Serbian, Morrocan and Dutch groups, to gangs of small-time burglars.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/may/20/a-united-nations-of-how-marbella-became-a-magnet-for-gangsters

 

It's so bad in Spain even the mafiosi themselves are scared. Of other mafiosi.

 

More than 100 crimininal organisations operating in Spain not a problem. Okay. Robberies and assaults happening constantly not a problem. Okay. A rise in lethal violence that is worrying even the region’s security forces, but not a problem. Okay. So many crime gangs that even the criminals themselves are scared, but not a problem. Okay. Residents wearing their jewellery to avoid it getting stolen in a break-in in their home and saying they will move away. But not a problem. Okay. Just my "worldview". Okay, genius.

 

Well, clearly you know Spain so well. And btw, Gamberros, youth hooligans, are a problem in Spain due to the 20% plus unemployment, they don't just stay in a neighbourhood, they have scooters and cars and go shopping where you do.

 

And yes, housing qaulity is a lot poorer in Spain than in Thailand, where the standard of housing in CM, BK, and Ko Samui is considerably higher than in most Spanish cities. I know, cause I lived in both.

 

Canary Islands? Lol, yes, winters are great there. Ideal if you like black ash beaches and being bored out of your mind.

 

And cultural life in Spain has been severely limited by animal rights fanatics and left wing extremists, one of the crowns in the jewel of Spanish culture, Tauromaquia, is now barely hanging on by a thread due to the prohibitions on bullfighting in many Spanish cities. As someone who grew up learning horse riding from a Rejeoneador I can tell you that it is a sad time for Spanish culture. Sure, Spain has better museums and opera than Thailand, but it does not have Buddhist monasteries, a Lantern festival, ancient Thai ruins etc.

 

Madrid airport is very limited, all Spaniards know this. Nobody wants to fly to Caracas, everyone wants to fly to Bangkok or Tokyo. But they often have to go to Frankfurt to fly there, because Iberia, the Spanish airline, is very poor and limited in its offering, and even if they offer flights they are wildly overpriced compared to what's on offer in Frankfurt.

 

Outside of Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia, in the smaller cities, btw Spain offers far less in dining options than Chiang Mai, Bangkok or Ko Samui. It's just a fact. It's mostly Spanish, which is great of course, but if you want to try a range of other cuisines, bad luck.

 

Choice of Shopping in Spain is better? Far from it. In Thailand you don't just get a range of malls Spain can only dream of, you also have Asia's largest market, Chatuchak (and it will be back), where you don't just get designer clothes, but unique items, where in fact the designers from Gucci go to be inspired. Shopping in Thailand is better.

 

And the weather in Thailand is better, btw, because in winter it is TEN degrees warmer than in most of Spain and a winter in Palma, Barcelona, Madrid or Valencia will see your furniture moulding green from the humidity which the Winter causes. It's horrible. I lived it for 8 years.

Lol, really. Crime is most definitely not a big concern in Spain. You can cherry-pick all the stats you want and distort them to your liking. It won't change reality.

 

As for "housing quality is a lot poorer in Spain than in Thailand, where the standard of housing in CM, BK, and Ko Samui is considerably higher than in most Spanish cities. I know, cause I lived in both." Sorry, that's bs. I have lived in both too and what you're saying is ridiculous. Really. What you probably mean is that you can get more bang for your buck in Thailand, but that's all.

 

Then "winter in Palma, Barcelona, Madrid or Valencia will see your furniture moulding green from the humidity which the Winter causes. It's horrible. I lived it for 8 years."

Lol, no, you haven't. Madrid is dry as f*cuk all year round, as anyone who's actually lived there will tell you.

 

I could go on, but you're clearly clueless, so what's the point?

[Dalewhatdale]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:01 AM, Tanomazu said:

Actually Spain can be a lot hotter than Thailand, 40 degrees Celsius and more are regular occurrences. 

 

You don't have options close by Bangkok airport? A lot more than you have in Spain, even Madrid is not a major travel hub airport.

 

North Africa is an absolute dunghole, excepting a few places in Morocco. Who wants to go there?

 

Pollution, dirt, grime and graffiti are a major problem in big Spanish cities:

 

"Clogged streets and idling cars are the primary drivers of poor air quality in Madrid, road traffic alone can cause up to 90% of NO₂ concentrations in the city centre.¹ Madrid also struggles with PM2.5 concentrations that have exceeded World Health Organisation (WHO) targets. While the WHO recommends an average annual PM2.5 target of 10 µg/m³ or less, the average air quality in Madrid exceeded this target during three months in 2019.

 

More broadly, Spain as a country has been singled out by the European Commission for repeated non-compliance with regulations.⁷ Limit values on ambient air quality are set by EU legislation for particulate matter (PM), sulphur dioxide (SO₂) and NO₂."

 

https://www.iqair.com/spain/madrid

 

In the world pollution rankings Madrid is actually ranked ahead of any Thai city:

 

https://www.iqair.com/world-air-quality-ranking

You're joking. Madrid is totally a major travel hub airport (barely 4 million fewer passengers than Swampy in 2019, the latest year with normal traffic), only it doesn't cover the destinations you like. If you want to travel to the Caribbean, Mexico, Central or South America (and of course Europe), Madrid is your airport.

 

While it's true that central Madrid has a slight problem with air quality, that is by EU standards, which are very stringent. That air quality ranking you linked to is a bit suspect, to say the least. Chiang Mai is listed below Madrid, but I can assure you Madrid never gets anywhere near the ridiculously high levels of dangerous particles Chiang Mai gets every year for 3 months during burning season. Not even remotely close.

[Artisi]

On 9/10/2021 at 7:01 AM, Rookiescot said:

When you are rich you have the world at your feet.

Many places offer sun and beaches.

Often they have less difficult visa requirements than Thailand does.

I would suggest that all liveable countries would have less difficult and more attractive incentives to attract people than the fiasco currently being promoted in Thailand. 

[Artisi]

On 9/22/2021 at 4:05 PM, Tanomazu said:

That's not correct. Like most countries Thailand taxes world-wide income.

 

You're right that the tax only applies if they bring the money into Thailand in the year that they made the money, however, if the wealthy have 2 million USD expenses per month, and most of their wealth is tied up in private island, real estate, shares, yachts, car collection, etc, then presumably some of the money made in the year has to fund these exorbitant monthly expenses, just for cash flow reasons.

 

So why would the rich move to Thailand if they can have 0% on income THIS year in many tax havens like BVI, Cayman etc?

Nonsense, there is no Thai tax levied on o/s earnings. 

[The Hammer2021]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:46 AM, tonray said:

I thought they all flocked to Bath on their holiday week...????????????????

"When Brits think about retiring or moving abroad,"

Try reading the article before commenting on it..lol

[Chad3000]

To my knowledge there hasn't been one single change in law to lure people (with money).

 

None

[Artisi]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:56 AM, Mike Teavee said:

We'll have to agree to disagree but if you're paying income tax in Thailand on earnings not directly earned here you're doing it all wrong... 

 

 

 

Stupid more like it. 

[Chad3000]

On 9/22/2021 at 6:08 PM, Mike Teavee said:

BMW that I could buy for £40K in the UK, no matter how much money I had, it's the principle of the thing.

I totally agree. Not only that but the roads suck, BKK traffic sucks and if someone doesn't kill you all they'll do is bang up your beautiful car.

 

Years ago I was in Bali drinking at a pub. All these Europeans were admiring a really old, thrashed BMW 7 series. I just shrugged and said he'd be lucky to get 20k US for it in States.

 

I remember my grandfather who had a bit of money telling me 'rich people don't get that way by spending it'

Edited October 22, 2021 by Chad3000

[Mike Teavee]

4 minutes ago, Chad3000 said:

I totally agree. Not only that but the roads suck, BKK traffic sucks and if someone doesn't kill you all they'll do is bang up your beautiful car.

 

I remember my grandfather who had a bit of money telling me 'rich people don't get that way by spending it'

I nearly cried when I saw the prices of cars in Asia when I moved to Singapore in 2008...

 

I was thinking that I might finally be able to get the Subaru Impreza WRX I always wanted (Group 20 insurance was always too high in the UK) & found that for what it cost me for my new Toyota T-Sport Celica in the UK I couldn't even get a Toyota Getz there ????

 

 

Haven't owned a car since (haven't had a driving license since 2013) & I never felt like I needed one in Singapore or Bangkok, but now I've moved to Wongamat I do think a car would come in handy at times (Then again Bolt Taxi is approx 50THB to Terminal 21 & turns up in a couple of minutes so hardly missing having one). 

 

    

[BritManToo]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:36 AM, webfact said:

While usual suspects Spain, Portugal, France and Italy are always top of the list, many have been looking further afield to find a place in the sun.

 

Not since Brexit ......... all the retired Brits are leaving.

How long ago was this rubbish written?