Streetsmarts - How To Acquire Some

[jdinasia]

qwertz---

I didn't say that she's irrelevant, just that she's playing the victim role to the extreme!

Being that clueless about where you live IS dangerous! Sadly, it does happen everywhere ... not only in Thailand! Getting sucked in by conmen happens everywhere!

Why has it not happened to most <has only happened to one friend .. but he walked into it with his eyes open!> of my friends in Thailand? They knew the lay of the land/had common sense/were streetsmart before ever touching feet to Thai soil!

[MTW]

Yes, well I asked myself why this was happening to me. The answer? Because I came here with low self-esteem due to the abusive nature of my marriage for many years, I mis-understood friendship in Thailand, and because people here are not operating on the same set of cultural values as I am.

Are Thai people unaware of the fact that some of us come here for vacation after some horrible event in our lives???? Do Thai people not respect the generous person?? Do they not see that us "Western people" are paying because we know they are poor? Do they not take advantage of this fact?? So why do they invite 5 people you have never met, tell you that they dont' know where the bar you want to go is, and take you to some place you hate, and yet you still have to pay for them and their 5 friends????

How would I ever assume, after only living in the USA and France, that people here will pretend they don't know where the bar is I want to go, because they are so selfish that they want to go to their favorite bar, have you pay for them and their wife, and pay for 5 other people they will call and invite. I have had my Thai "friends" tell me many times, that they cannot find the place I want to go, even when I gave them a card for the place. I had to finally stop in the middle of the street, and say: OK, you don't know where it is, but I do know, and we will get a taxi to take us there .... otherwise I don't want to go anywhere. Gee, of course the guy was suddenly able to understand my directions to this place. But oh,he got a call, after 5 minutes, saying he had to come and help take care of his brother's business.

Okay, maybe you think I am an idiot, but how many people in western countries would go through all this BS, just to get free drinks for their friends and them, at a place that they find perfect, compared to a place they dont' like for some reason??? Maybe I would have bought some French people some drinks, but I surely would have been at the place I requested to visit, not a place I hate, in Paris.

The very nature of the selfishness that happened to me, gives me a low opinion of MOST, not all, Thai people. It wasn't only that I paid for the food and drink, but that I must pay at only a place they will most enjoy, at total disregard for what I will enjoy, and which includes lies to get me to go to the place they enjoy most.

To some posters who said essentially: that they kept Thai people at arms length because of stories like mine, but they have never had any problems, and essentially feel that this was not needed, I am happy for you!! But this does not mean that bad stories don't happen to other people who do not deserve it.

Maybe as a man, and the most rich man in any situation, you can not feel too bad about paying. But as a woman, younger than everyone at a dinner, when 8 or 9 other people were Thai, and men, and they talked all night about how rich and famous they are, I felt more than pissed of, when the "host" asked me to pay the bill. How can this happen?? I am the only woman here, I am also the only farang, and I paid for everyone the night before, because the "host" lost his wallet. Of course I should see this as a status symbol, that is what Thais will tell you. Excuse me but what status did they give me, other than ###### of the year????

Farang men here will of course tell me that I am an idiot and they would never fall for such shit. Really?? It has never happened to you?? You never paid for your bargirl and some of her friends? You never thought you were a guest and found out you were the host??? If this is true, I can only congratulate those people who were able to see through the BS.

[qwertz]

qwertz---

I didn't say that she's irrelevant, just that she's playing the victim role to the extreme!

Being that clueless about where you live IS dangerous! Sadly, it does happen everywhere ... not only in Thailand! Getting sucked in by conmen happens everywhere!

Why has it not happened to most <has only happened to one friend .. but he walked into it with his eyes open!> of my friends in Thailand? They knew the lay of the land/had common sense/were streetsmart before ever touching feet to Thai soil!

JD, I hear you and your input is exactly what's needed on this thread.

We're not all armour plated and I know personally how vulnerable you can be if you're emotionally bruised.

I only have to read the first three lines of MTW's last post and the problem screams at me.

It's mistaking people's avaricious motives for friendship.

Easy to do, IMO, when you're in need of genuine company; after a bad trip you tend to not to look too hard into ostensibly friendly approaches from tricky people.

BTW, I see where she's coming from about picking up the tab too.

It has happened to me, but with my full knowledge as I was lucky enough to be warned about this by the old hands.

And I lost count long ago of how many times I've bought drinks for Thais (purely routine where I come from).

Just as well I don't expect one in return.

Want to ask me how many times a Thai has bought me one?

Edited May 31, 2007 by qwertz

[jdinasia]

again with the victim role!

No I have NEVER been suckered into paying for people that I didn't know to go and have drinks No I don't think MOST Thais are like that ... I don't even think that porportionally MANY are

Have I paid for drinks for people I invited along? SURE ... have I had as many drinks bought for me? YES! I don't make it a habit of hanging out with bargirls <or barboys for that matter unless I happen to be visiting friends in Pattaya >

My Thai friends would take a pass on an invite if I was set on going somewhere they hated ... I'd take a pass if they invited me somewhere I hated!

Why you have set yourself up to be a victim is probably deeply personal but to blame MOST Thai people and Farang Men for your mistakes is just silly! <Then again, I see many silly posts by farang men about western women too!>

[cooL_guY_corY]

MTW your last post has overtones of extreme racist stereotyping !

I don't think it matters what country you are in if you are are gullible/foolish (to the extent that you have claimed) and have money to burn you will be taken for a ride.

And of course, nobody likes a fascist.

[meadish_sweetball]

sir im not disagreeing with you. i enjoy bkk sex scene. i know bkk has a lot more , other than sex sex sex.

I KNOW IT IS ONLY A SMALL PART OF THAILAND.

BUT THE REST OF THE WORLD DONT KNOW. their perception is that los is a sex place, and let me tell you what they think that goes on here does go on here.

It's true Thailand has a reputation for sex, but most Swedes will also know it for inexpensive travelling - nice beaches and islands, laid-back pace (except in traffic), good food, polite service, easy transportation and plenty of culture to discover.

How many countries have you been to and how many languages do you understand in order to be able to state so categorically what people all over the world think and believe?

[Ijustwannateach]

I think there *is* a point to be made that meeting random people "back home," wherever that may be, things would usually be more transparent- at least in the circles I came from- and there would be fewer people just waiting around to dig a hole for you to walk into. Perhaps I am simply too streetsmart to be fooled back home, or something- but one rarely gets people walking around on the streets of Washington, D.C., for example, telling people that the Smithsonian is closed- why don't you try out this excellent gem shop? And so forth. [although, come to think of it, there may be a parallel in that obvious tourists are more likely to be the targets of *violent* crime in certain cities and states...] There seems to be a larger sector here of people who are looking for marks for cons of one kind or another....

Maybe the lesson is that Thai criminals are simply more likely to find ways to take your money without killing you than American criminals are...

"S"

[jdinasia]

S---

Try being a solo Japanese tourist in NYC etc ....

you'll get suckered in fast unless you are smart!

[jdinasia]

MTW should read THIS thread ... she'll feel better! http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=123331&hl=

[MTW]

Okay, agian Jdinasia: I had some friends in Thailand. I was taken, for example, to a restaurant/bar in Chiang Mai that I liked, by a British person I knew here and his Thai girlfriend. The manager of my hotel asked me about it, and I told her where I went, that I liked it, and that most of the music was Western music and in English.

She knew about this place. She is the person who was my fake friend. When she asked me if we could go out at night together, I suggested this place. Well, her boyfriend could never find that place and took me to a comedy place where everything was in Thai. Then he called several friends, invited them to drink at my cost, didn't tell me this, but they alll went missing before the bill arrived. Then the next couple of times we went out, suddenly her boyfriend could not find the place I wanted to go, and we were driving in a totally different part of town. Finally I got sick of this shit and said, if your boyfriend doesn't know were I want to go, I can get us a taxi who does know. And said that I would not be taken to any other places tonight, other than were I want to go.

I ended up at the place I wanted to go. But sorry, I could not believe easily that people would not only expect me to pay for them, expect me to pay for other people I have never met, BUT that they would also be so selfish as to pretend that they didn't know where the bar is that I wanted to go to, and take me to a different place!!!!! I only became aware of this much later when I could drive everywhere alone, as well that I realized that nobody in my city, did NOT know where this place was.

I mean, I still cannot tell you why anyone I knew in CM would be so totally selfish. They were getting free food, they were getting free drink, they spoke English very well and so were familiar with the music only I can say this place was not their number 1 choice!! Well, sorry, but if I have to pay for 5-10 people, I don't really care what they want to see, considering that I only invited 2 people to the bar I wanted to go to, and never ended up going there.

I mean, people in my country would never consider telling me they can't find the place I want to go, only because they want me to buy all their drinks AND they want to go to their number one choice of places. If you want to think that Thai people only do the things they do because they are poor, well this just doesn't jive with that.

SOME people in thailand don't give a shit what you want, dont' give a shit what you deserve, their only consideration is what they need, what they want, and how can they get that from you??? And because life here is not an equal opportunitity event, some people will do anything they can to get ahead. There is no honor here in Thailand. If you are a farang, you have more money to spend, even than like a guy like Thaksin. How could he avoid taxes on a profit of 1.9 Billiion dollars, donate only 4 million baht to the tsunami????

[siddv]

Good thread. Man you guys are tired of the go gos, bar girls, massage parlours gentelman's clubs and having practicualy any tight little hottie you see? At our age...40 & 50s!!! With all due respect gentleman, if you can't enjoy that aspect of Thailand... what's the point of even living there? You might as well just have stayed in your home country.

You have to be depressed on some level. I mean there you are in the candy store/babe factory and yet you've been conned into not being able to enjoy the candy. Do all of you expats share this thinking? I'm not there yet but is this the eveolution that I can expect when I finally am able to retire in Thailand?

[jdinasia]

Okay, agian Jdinasia: I had some friends in Thailand. I was taken, for example,........ There is no honor here in Thailand.

You are playing the victim again ... not pretty ... not accurate and not fair Your desperate need for approval has you breaking your own code of behaviour ... and then blaming someone else! I have met many honorable people in Thailand! Why you haven't says more about you than anything else!

Be an adult! Take responsibility for your own actions! Don't get suckered over andover and think that none of it was your fault! It is like you printed a "kick me" sign in Thai and put it on your own back and then blame others for it! As long as you keep keep blaming others for everything you will keep the self-esteem issues you mentioned earlier!

I am sorry you feel so abused by living here! but really!

[quiksilva]

MTW I disagree that there is no honour here in Thailand, there is plenty, but perhaps you have been looking for it in all the wrong places...

Street smarts is all about listening to that inner voice that tells you that you are being taken for a ride. Trust your instincts, not your feelings, and act on them.

Before setting out on the next big adventure arm yourself with as much information as you can lay your hands on.

Say, you want to go to a bar that you have a name card for but have never been to by yourself. Presumably you have its address and number, call them and ask for a map, directions, landmarks. Check out their website to find out more about their location, buy a decent map (or two) and study it for a while, walk the streets yourself, so you will know when Somchai the taxi driver tries to take you the scenic route for an extra 30 Baht in fares, or perhaps you can then take your 'friend's' to that bar, you liked.

Your Thai not good enough to do that? Learn. In the meantime, go to places you know or if you do want to be more adventurous expect these sorts of situations to happen, knowing it may happen can be quite exhilarating, once it does occur learn from it and don't repeat the same mistakes.

Street smarts is all about common sense and doing things for yourself. If you rely on other people, in this nasty dog eat dog world you have to expect that someone will exploit you.

Edited June 1, 2007 by quiksilva

[jdinasia]

and to assume that bad things don't happen to immigrants 'in my country' is just plain wrong. There is a reason beyond language that immigrants often stick together during the assimilation learning curve!

[girlx]

hmm i don't think she is playing the victim, she was the victim who just wants to share her story, and i understand her story. i too have found that many thais do not take anyone outside of their family circle seriously, and they have very little regard for anyone's needs but their own (this is even amongst themselves).

I am a nice honest person, and cannot predict the levels people will go here to make money, since this does not happen in the countries I have lived in before, nor would I ever do things like this

i think this is the point... being an honest, generous person is often synonymous to being a fool in this country. thai values are simply different. and we as farangs are always going to be outside their circle of trust. the majority of thais think only of what they can get from us, and have no qualms about being fake to get it. this is not considered bad in their culture (the concept of "face" always requires a certain masking of emotions or motives), so how can someone coming from a totally different culture in which it is a betrayal to misrepresent yourself, see it coming? and even once they see it, it is hard to really believe people can be so callous and greedy, especially when the mask is put back on again. i hear stories like this almost every day in the past 8 years i have been coming to thailand. i know several people who just can't accept that people would really be so "bad". but it is a clash of cultural priorities.

there are people all over the world who will find ways to extract what thay want from you behind the mask of genuinity- but thais are the most ruthless of the lot, in my experience. i think everyone who comes to thailand should have a healthy amount of distrust- expect the worst and hope for the best as the saying goes.

[LinkPopularity]

nana, patpong, etc not inherently bad. you just have to know how to enjoy those places.

AND DONT GO LOOKING FOR GIRLFRIENDS AND WIVES THERE!

why you guys trash bkk sex industry is beyond me. if you dont like dont partake. even though it is only a small part of thailand it is what thais are known for. without it thailand would be just another asian country.

can anyone give other examples what thailand is known for !

Very tasty & spicy food. Silk.

Cheers,

Soundman.

most food and especially the silk are not Thai, they are in fact from Laos (copy, copy, copy ... )

[LinkPopularity]

MTW

it's very normal that something like this happens to you when you're here for the first time, it happens to most people, they fooled you one time, the next time you didn't let them fool you again ... you learned your lesson, well done

and yes, most Thai people are like that, posters on this forum trying to deny that are just wannabe hippies ...

so, don't worry, you'll be fine ...

[madjbs]

MTW

I’m sorry but from what you have written it looks like you have just been opening the door to allow people to scam you. I think possibly you would be scammed wherever you go in the world, just as JD said if you play the victim you’re just going to be treated as such until you can snap out of it and find some real friends.

Its people with such a bad attitude and a stereotypical Thai-Farang view that seems to think all Thai people are like so and so and how they can never be friends with farnags etc.... Well I would like to say its complete rubbish, if you have that kind of attitude nobody genuine is going to want to be your friend anyway which therefore leaves only people looking for financial benefits left. And if you actually believe they were your friends when they took you for so many rides then I’m sorry but you only have yourself to blame for being so foolish.

This may have sounded harsh but unfortunately its true, Its just not fair to go around labeling Thai people as you do in such a negative racist manner. If you carry on being the innocent victim things will never change for you.

Jake

Edited June 1, 2007 by madjbs

[blizzard]

mr jdasia

you are talking to the proverbial brick wall. she probably blames thais for global warming,etc. everybody is wrong but herself.

it would be more fun if the brick wall didnt write such long posts......................lol.

if you guys dont want to believe that thailand is seen by the planet as the worlds number one sex destination then dont believe it.

as i said before every freakkin country near water has nice beaches aand the like, what they dont have is sex as found in los.

Edited June 1, 2007 by blizzard

[soundman]

most food and especially the silk are not Thai, they are in fact from Laos (copy, copy, copy ... )

If you want to get technical, you may find that silk came from china, however, if you ask the average person in farang land what they know about Thailand, food & silk will usually be the first things mentioned.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Pepe']

I was born and raised in Newark, New Jersey. If you want a crash course go live there for a little while.

I think it won't take you long before you have all the bases covered.

For any country...

Hey Pepe, got to agree with you. i was born and raised there too. Lyons avenue. fights just about every day i lived there, you get your street smarts there right away, helped my in my world travels thats for sure. we need to hook up sometime.

as for the OP...... just keep your eyes and ears open and be aware of your surroundings, you will be fine

-------------

North 7th St in the North ward for me. Definitely toned down from your "neck of the woods" but no shortage of fighting. Like you said almost everyday.

We started getting "smart" and hiding bats and chains in strategically located places on the way home from school.

I've been strict vegetarian now since 1974 and trying to follow Buddha's teachings.

Go figya, who wood a daught?

I'll be in Thailand with a buddy who's a urologist in Vegas. Guess where he's from, West Orange. We'll be there for a month starting 12/06/07.

I'll keep ya posted. Hey keep an eye on dees guys will ya. Especially dat qwertz... :D

[Tod Daniels]

First and foremost;

Take off your rose colored glasses. To paraphrase Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz; This ain't Kansas, Toto.

This is far from an idyllic place filled with helpful, oh-so moronically smiling natives, nor is it the TAT sanctioned version of the country you see in the ads for a vacation.

My motto;

NEVER EVER trust the natives of ANY insignificantly tiny, pissant, sh*t-hole, developing third world country, and of course, trust the foreigners who live in it even less. First world values have little or no place in a third world country.

Speaking and comprehending the language even at a rudimentary level is a MUST. It will help you avoid 99% of the pitfalls which are all too common in places like these.

Please note; the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is no better or worse than any of the above referenced countries which seem to be scattered haphazardly around the globe. While I firmly believe most thais wouldn’t piss on foreigner who was on fire; they would bring chicken on a stick to cook over the smoldering ashes.

Streetsmarts is taking something for what it is, not how you would like it to be.

To quote a line from the US television show The X-Files;

"Trust no one"

That single line will save you more grief than you will ever know.

[soundman]

NEVER EVER trust the natives of ANY insignificantly tiny, pissant, sh*t-hole, developing third world country, and of course, trust the foreigners who live in it even less. First world values have little or no place in a third world country.

Whilst there are some incredibly dodgy areas in Thailand I would hardly call Thailand a third world country.

Soundman.

[qwertz]

It's a fact that those best equipped to ward off scammers and parasites have probably grown up in a hard environment and have already developed a brand of streetsmarts.

Never having been to America, I only know it from the many films etc. in television.

But I grew up in post war Manchester, England and from Pepe's descriptions, the Bronx sounds like Newton Heath, my jungle.

I knew nothing about LOS the first time I landed there but was able to tour there without being scammed too much.

Which was just as well on my pitiful budget.

Times change and LOS today has developed a massive tourist sub culture with its complement of bottom feeders.

Like any tourist venue in the world.

The theme of this thread is about how to get some streetsmarts and, just as important, to pass it on to those who don't yet have it.

We're not all born with natural caution so I think the sentiment of this thread, and indeed most of this forum, is dead right for those seeking information and help that's not easily found in Google or travel books.

It's been said that you only learn from your own mistakes but I for one learn most from the mistakes other people make.

[blizzard]

i bought a box of popcorn off the streets of nana, the guy charged me 50 baht. the lady selling burgers which are top quality charges 60 baht.

I WAS RIPPED OFF. i didnt ask price first so guy took advantaje of me. beware of thais selling popcorn..................lol.

but i learned from mtw that perhaps i shouldnt go back to him.. he might make me keep on paying for my corn.

i think its hard to learn streetsmarts, thats why they call it streetsmarts. its an instinct people have. you cant teach instinct.

Edited June 1, 2007 by blizzard

[Strap]

Let me tell you again, these were NOT business deals. These things I complain about were purposely posed as frienships, as well as they made efforts to be my friends and I did not seek them out. But obviously, being Thai I guess, you cannot help but see these as only a business relationship because you understand Thailand. Well, in my country, nobody can get commission because they go to a furniture store with you.

Sorry, but when a woman, your same age, manages the hotel you have stayed at, at various times, for months, and she tries to be your friend, and you are also a woman, and not gay, not a lot seems strange about that. When she tells you she wants to go shopping with you, because she likes to go shopping, not a lot seems strange about that.

With all the various books about Thailand and Thai culture, which I read, none of them details the commission system as it is here. Why is that??????????

Hi MTW

The problem here is that the 'relationship / friendship' started with you being a customer ( your spending money in her hotel ), You will always be looked at as a customer if thats how you met. you can all say what you want , the truth here is that once your a customer your always a customer. Most Thais will call you there friend after some meetings and that is only to be polite as you are now there friend/customer. the word friend to them is different compared to farangs.

Strap

[Ulysses G.]

i think its hard to learn streetsmarts, thats why they call it streetsmarts. its an instinct people have. you cant teach instinct.

If you leave home and live on your own when you are young you pick it up REAL fast.

[Pepe']

It's a fact that those best equipped to ward off scammers and parasites have probably grown up in a hard environment and have already developed a brand of streetsmarts.

Never having been to America, I only know it from the many films etc. in television.

But I grew up in post war Manchester, England and from Pepe's descriptions, the Bronx sounds like Newton Heath, my jungle.

I knew nothing about LOS the first time I landed there but was able to tour there without being scammed too much.

Which was just as well on my pitiful budget.

Times change and LOS today has developed a massive tourist sub culture with its complement of bottom feeders.

Like any tourist venue in the world.

The theme of this thread is about how to get some streetsmarts and, just as important, to pass it on to those who don't yet have it.

We're not all born with natural caution so I think the sentiment of this thread, and indeed most of this forum, is dead right for those seeking information and help that's not easily found in Google or travel books.

It's been said that you only learn from your own mistakes but I for one learn most from the mistakes other people make.

----------------

Hey qwertz you need to work on your geography. "Da Bronx" is about 30 minutes east across the Hudson river from Newark, "Ay foget abot it" LOL.

My ex brother in law was raised near by your old home turf. Didn't sound like a picnic.

Oh yeh, he's a very street wise guy as well.

[JimsKnight]

Good thread. Man you guys are tired of the go gos, bar girls, massage parlours gentelman's clubs and having practicualy any tight little hottie you see? At our age...40 & 50s!!! With all due respect gentleman, if you can't enjoy that aspect of Thailand... what's the point of even living there? You might as well just have stayed in your home country.

You have to be depressed on some level. I mean there you are in the candy store/babe factory and yet you've been conned into not being able to enjoy the candy. Do all of you expats share this thinking? I'm not there yet but is this the eveolution that I can expect when I finally am able to retire in Thailand?

Good post, a lot of the 'purites' as I like to call them probably haven't even set foot in Thailand and just want to preach hippy-dippy rose tinted visions of Thailand. Once they have a taste the'll soon change their tune

Once you actually spend more than a year in Thailand if you haven't cottoned-on to the whole 'scene' by then you'll struggle to cope with it.

Yes, Thais do have a sense of right and wrong, and a thai sense of 'honour' but this is radically different to Western honour.

I've been giving the 'come on' to some girl I'd met. She tried to pull the same thing with me as MTW, I told her to get lost. I moved on and didn't lose any sleep over it. As soon as you can accept that in Thailand as the white skin foreigner you are a target for scams then thats half the battle.

Not all Thai people will try and scam you of course, those that try to you can disperse by learning a few thai words and some knowing smiles. As soon as you come across as being 'aware' they'll likely drop the act and the scam. The scams seem to come from everywhere because all the scammers tend to gather in the Towns and Cities (where we all tend to hang-out), this also applies to farang scammers too.

Act Asian, be low key, don't splash the cash like Mr Big and don't dress like tourists. Do you see the thais wearing shorts and acting loud flashing cash?

Leave some of the farang honour code at the airport and pick up on some of the thai honour code as you leave Suvarn. airport.

[torito]

Never having been to America, ....

'qwertz', and where did you learn spanish then?