The Constitutional Tribunal Disbands Thai Rak Thai - Election cheating

[Plus]

Talking about sensure debates - you forget one important thing - TRT broke electoral laws for which it had to be punished by Constitutional Court, not by sensure motions.

The current Tribunal simply took over the case that started long before the coup, and dissolution has always been on the cards.

Assuming that charges were proven beyond doubt, TRT had to be dissolved no matter how many people voted for it.

Does anyone doubt that Thammarak bribed those parties and forged EC database records? I think not.

[hammered]

It is sad to see this thread has degenerated into the usual what if set of scenarios and and selective cherry picking of the recent past.

[sriracha john]

Perhaps my old memory is failing me but I recall that the coup was a popular one and had the blessing of HRH and many of the populace.

It was brought about because the upcoming election had developped into a sham ,thanks to thaksin and TRT.

His Highness the King at his recent meeting with the Tribunal judges told them that justice had to be seen to be done in a way that the majority of Thais could comprehend, (hence the long explanations of the verdicts and the reasoning behind those verdicts), It seems to be only certain farang who preferred to do an ostrich act .

The people around my area seem to have accepted the decision and life goes on as usual,perhaps they have more sense than the Psuedo interlectuals posting here give them credit for.

My old man used to say ,stay out of discussions on politics and religion as they always degenerate into brawls, which is probably where this thread is headed.

Yes your old memory is failing you.I could point out at least four major misconceptions in your post, but frankly I can't be bothered given your reference to "Psuedo interlectuals".The use of that expression, even when spelled correctly. is a well known giveaway of the mind behind it.

If the cap fits younghusband,I,m sure it fits you well, some are born with a silver spoon and blessed with a good education,others had to leave school at 13 to help support a dirt poor family,we get by on nous,humility and compassion which seem sadly lacking in your demeanour.

[Old Man River]

TRT voters are always described, depending on mood of the attacker, as stupid, thugs, corrupt, and whatever. The mass of their voters were people who actually did benefit from the policies, and who have not benefited much from any other government - just normal people.

Colpyat, I do get tired of hearing that the poor people upcountry only benefited from Thaksin's government. Actually, they have benefited from all democratic governments. They benefited by selling their votes to the highest bidder. Thaksin came along and institutionalized benefits so that money was directed upcountry by populist policies instead of cash in the backs of pick up trucks.

If those upcountry want to benefit from future governments, they need to unify themselves into a uniform, coherent voting block. Their goal needs to be to put up candidates that support their needs and rally around these people voting for them and their party, and I am not talking about some rich guy from Chiang Mai. Marching on Bangkok complaining about the military coup doesn't provide any benefits for their future. Unifying into a strong voting block does. However, if political parties are still able to get votes upcountry by paying THB 100 (or less), then the people selling their votes only have themselves to blame.

[younghusband]

You may be a guest, i am not. I am a taxpaying non-immigrant resident on work permit providing for my family of Thai nationals.

Guess we shall have to agree to disagree, which is at least civil. By the by I used the term 'Guest' in its widest connotation. If it's good enough for Mr. Heinecke even though he has citizenship, it should be good enough for us.

Regards

Bill Heinecke is not just a Thai citizen but a slippery Thai-Chinese businessman who just happens to look like a mid Western Rotary Club member.His minority shareholders have never been treated with the respect they deserve unles they have "barami" like the Royal Investment Bureau.He is certainly charming and intelligent, but he sails under his own rules.His attitude to Thailand is primarily determined how it benefits Bill Heinecke.

[sriracha john]

ides some information about him.

<H1 class=firstHeading>Sonthi Boonyaratglin</H1><H3 id=siteSub>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</H3>Jump to: navigation, search

< Remaining gobbly-gook snipped >

I appreciate your trying to provide related news, but please select "preview post" BEFORE "add post" to see how it will look.... otherwise it turns into a hodge-podge of unreadable print. Thank you.

[surinmike]

mmmmm...like the rest are any better....mmmmmm

Chaturon Chaisang, leader of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai, told party supporters at the party head office that the rulings against the party were unfair.

He said the rulings indicated that the people, who had seized power, could set what was right or wrong.

He said the people nationwide would find the rulings unacceptable.

The crowd cheered to his speech.

Speaking at a rally in front of the party at about 15 minutes after midnight, he said Thailand was now ruled by dictators.

From The Nation see my post above

[Wiggy]

When I was in law school, we learned that "hard cases make bad law." Tonight's decision is clearly an example of this. For all of the sins of Mr Thaksin and TRT, banning a large party is simply a bad precedent, and a step back from democracy. Richard Nixon's administration was the closest the United States came to a dictatorship in living memory. However, no one raised the thought of disbanding or abolishing the Republican party. The way we get rid of bad politicians is to vote them out of office, not get rid of their parties. There are many in Thai Rak Thai, such as Mr Chaturon, who have something positive to contribute to this country. Why deprive them of what are in essence a huge chunk of their civil rights! Put the guilty ones on trial, instead.

On a lighter note, I am starting a new party.....called Farang Rak Thai. I think I can get many members, but few voters.

Keep calm.

That may be fine, but how do you vote bad politicians out when they simply buy the majority of the electorate with wads of cash? Admittedly Thailand is not a democracy, but at least this verdict might make some politicians think twice before adopting unfair strategies in the future. Democracy will be slow in coming to Thailand, but come it will.

[Jai Dee]

EC insists registrar cannot accept same names of parties that will be dissolved

The Election Commission (EC) of Thailand reiterates that the political parties that are subjected to be dissolved as ruled by the Constitutional Tribunal cannot register with the same name. The EC also would like political groups or parties to follow the ruled and regulations in the name of democracy.

Election commissioner Sodsri Sattayatham asserts that the registrar will have to follow the tribunal’s verdict and cannot accept the original names of the parties that will be dissolved. Otherwise, the EC will have to take legal action against them.

Ms. Sodsri says the EC had previously requested the Council for National Security to lift the Council for Democratic Reform’s 15th and 27th announcements so political parties can submit their financial accounts to the EC legally. Each year, parties usually submitted their information on April, but they could not send them this year, causing the EC some difficulties.

However, if parties would like to arrange a big conference, they can submit a report to the EC for approval.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 01 June 2007

[mumbu]

ides some information about him.

<H1 class=firstHeading>Sonthi Boonyaratglin</H1><H3 id=siteSub>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</H3>Jump to: navigation, search

< Remaining gobbly-gook snipped >

I appreciate your trying to provide related news, but please select "preview post" BEFORE "add post" to see how it will look.... otherwise it turns into a hodge-podge of unreadable print. Thank you.

Of course, you can read everything. You may not like what you read but this is your problem, not mine. If you want to have all links in place, which is very difficult to arrange through the simple cut and paste procedure, please, proceed directly to Wikipedia.

[Grover]

ides some information about him.

<H1 class=firstHeading>Sonthi Boonyaratglin</H1><H3 id=siteSub>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</H3>Jump to: navigation, search

< Remaining gobbly-gook snipped >

I appreciate your trying to provide related news, but please select "preview post" BEFORE "add post" to see how it will look.... otherwise it turns into a hodge-podge of unreadable print. Thank you.

Of course, you can read everything. You may not like what you read but this is your problem, not mine. If you want to have all links in place, which is very difficult to arrange through the simple cut and paste procedure, please, proceed directly to Wikipedia.

the language of this forum is english, not HTML code or whatever that gobbledy-gook computer language was.

we are not computers

thanks.

Edited June 1, 2007 by Grover

[sriracha john]

ides some information about him.

<H1 class=firstHeading>Sonthi Boonyaratglin</H1><H3 id=siteSub>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</H3>Jump to: navigation, search

< Remaining gobbly-gook snipped >

I appreciate your trying to provide related news, but please select "preview post" BEFORE "add post" to see how it will look.... otherwise it turns into a hodge-podge of unreadable print. Thank you.

Of course, you can read everything. You may not like what you read but this is your problem, not mine. If you want to have all links in place, which is very difficult to arrange through the simple cut and paste procedure, please, proceed directly to Wikipedia.

I have no difficulty with you what you present to the rest of us to read... only in how you presented it.

In terms of readability... it left much room for improvement, hence my suggestion to preview it yourself before presenting it to the rest of us.

It's in the best interest for all, if those that present news articles, present them in a manner that lends itself to actually reading them with an acceptable level of ease.

If you need some pointers, I'd be glad to help out.

[Jai Dee]

Minister of Tourism believes tourism will improve after rulings on party dissolution case

The Minister of Tourism and Sports expresses confidence that tourism will be improved after the rulings on the political party dissolution case, adding that the ministry is ready to explain facts about the country’s situation to foreign investors.

Minister of Tourism and Sports Suwit Yodmanee (สุวิทย์ ยอดมณี) says the ministry under the interim government has tried in every way to create confidence among both Thai and foreign tourists especially during the high seasons, including the periods between June – September and October – February when the majority of Middle-Eastern and European tourists travel to Thailand respectively.

However, Mr Suwit says the ministry still needs to study and adjust plans to facilitate foreign tourists and domestic airlines in boosting the country’s competitiveness by coordinating flights. In addition, he says the ministry has a plan to inject more money to develop tourist destinations in Thailand.

The ministry will also promote tourism among Thai people by improving community tourist sites to efficiently accommodate both Thai and foreign tourists. It is now selecting 30 outstanding villages, Tambons, and communities to be a model for other communities across the country. In June this year, the ministry is scheduled to hold seminars with relevant government units on the development of tourist sites nationwide.

As for projects to conserve Thai way of life and campaign against global warming, the minister reports that it will be implemented for the first time in Sukhothai Province before expanding to Amphawa (อัมพวา) District in Samut Songkhram, Phimai (พิมาย) District in Nakhon Ratchasima, and Koh Chang in Trat.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 01 June 2007

[tettyan]

The very first news about the verdict were that the laws actaully DO apply to Democrats. Did you see that, Tettyan?

Only one of the charges was ruled as not applicable. Look it up on the Nation's site, it's somewhere at the bottom of the breaking news section.

I did see that, thank you very much. The relevent text:

The ruling was the first of four points of legal considerations related to the case of the Democrat.

Reading the legal interpretations before the verdict, Judge Somchai said the organic election [law]had not been exempted by any coup order so it was annulled by the coup.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/30...es_30035582.php

How do you square that with this?

TRT was dissolved because the Constitutional Tribunal deemed it had breached section 66(2) and section 66(3):

"The Constitutional Court may issue an order dissolving a political party which has carried out any of the following:

...

"(2) an act which may be adverse to the democratic regime of Government with the King as Head of the State under the Constitution;

"(3) an act which may endanger the security of the State, or may be contrary to law or public order or good morals or..."

(source: bangkokpundit.blogspot.com)

That's Section 66 of the... Organic Law on Political parties (link), the same law which the judges just said could not apply to the Democrats b/c it was no longer valid after the coup!

The other 3 charges against the Democrats were then considered in full because they didn't involve violations of the organic law.

Edited June 1, 2007 by tettyan

[jdinasia]

Tetty .... look and see what was being considered in the first point It was about the senatorial elections I think you will find. Relating to not the first voided election but to an event later ...

TRT was nailed on the first election that took place and was THEN voided.

[Plus]

"Democrat Party had not breached the MPs and Senatorial Election Act because the act had lapsed after the coup."

"That's Section 66 of the... Organic Law on Political parties"

These are apparently not the same laws.

A mistake like that would have been spotted right away and I don't believe the judges were stupid enough to make it.

[Ned]

Are the 65% of the Thai people who supported TRT just going to let this awful charade stand?! The Politics of Fear rule I know but surely something's got to happen once the enormity of this injustice sinks in. And contributors on this forum speak of Thailand now on the road to democracy! Don't make me laugh.

[Sunderland]

Don't shoot the messenger but I was told by a good Thai colleague that her call this morning from a friend in the south warned of possible problems in Bangkok over the next 2 weeks. While maybe not the best source in Thailand, a meeting had been held by senior representatives of one of Thailand's bigger banks and managers were told to warn close friends and family about the possibility of trouble in Bangkok within the next fortnight. It was advised that people should stock up on water and food items and be prepared for possible disruptions to electricity supply.

Personally, I thought that TRT's punishment might have cleared the political air and didn't think there was much chance of this leading to a division of the armed forces. However, when more than half the country have voted for a party who have been kicked out of office, there has to be the potential for civil unrest and even within the armed forces, I would dare to think that there are still some loyalties to TRT, as well as opposition to the likelihood of the Democrats contesting an election with no major opposition.

Edited June 1, 2007 by Sunderland

[ThaiGoon]

Don't shoot the messenger but I was told by a good Thai colleague that her call this morning from a friend in the south warned of possible problems in Bangkok over the next 2 weeks. While maybe not the best source in Thailand, a meeting had been held by senior representatives of one of Thailand's bigger banks and managers were told to warn close friends and family about the possibility of trouble in Bangkok within the next fortnight. It was advised that people should stock up on water and food items and be prepared for possible disruptions to electricity supply.

Personally, I thought that TRT's punishment might have cleared the political air and didn't think there was much chance of this leading to a division of the armed forces. However, when more than half the country have voted for a party who have been kicked out of office, there has to be the potential for civil unrest and even within the armed forces, I would dare to think that there are still some loyalties to TRT, as well as opposition to the likelihood of teh Democrats contesting an election with no major opposition.

By the way, the South is a stronghold of the Democrats...not TRT.

[Sunderland]

Don't shoot the messenger but I was told by a good Thai colleague that her call this morning from a friend in the south warned of possible problems in Bangkok over the next 2 weeks. While maybe not the best source in Thailand, a meeting had been held by senior representatives of one of Thailand's bigger banks and managers were told to warn close friends and family about the possibility of trouble in Bangkok within the next fortnight. It was advised that people should stock up on water and food items and be prepared for possible disruptions to electricity supply.

Personally, I thought that TRT's punishment might have cleared the political air and didn't think there was much chance of this leading to a division of the armed forces. However, when more than half the country have voted for a party who have been kicked out of office, there has to be the potential for civil unrest and even within the armed forces, I would dare to think that there are still some loyalties to TRT, as well as opposition to the likelihood of teh Democrats contesting an election with no major opposition.

By the way, the South is a stronghold of the Democrats...not TRT.

Mmmmm ... yes, I know that. I've been living here for 10 years. I am not that stupid. That's why they were warning of problems in Bangkok, not the south. If anything happens, it will be the mobilization of people from the north and north-east. The south is a different kettle of fish and the TRT decision makes little difference to what is happening there.

[farang prince]

Minister of Tourism believes tourism will improve after rulings on party dissolution case

The Minister of Tourism and Sports expresses confidence that tourism will be improved after the rulings on the political party dissolution case, adding that the ministry is ready to explain facts about the country’s situation to foreign investors.

Minister of Tourism and Sports Suwit Yodmanee (สุวิทย์ ยอดมณี) says the ministry under the interim government has tried in every way to create confidence among both Thai and foreign tourists especially during the high seasons, including the periods between June – September and October – February when the majority of Middle-Eastern and European tourists travel to Thailand respectively.

However, Mr Suwit says the ministry still needs to study and adjust plans to facilitate foreign tourists and domestic airlines in boosting the country’s competitiveness by coordinating flights. In addition, he says the ministry has a plan to inject more money to develop tourist destinations in Thailand.

The ministry will also promote tourism among Thai people by improving community tourist sites to efficiently accommodate both Thai and foreign tourists. It is now selecting 30 outstanding villages, Tambons, and communities to be a model for other communities across the country. In June this year, the ministry is scheduled to hold seminars with relevant government units on the development of tourist sites nationwide.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 01 June 2007

Yes, there is nothing like the prospect of demonstrations, possible riots, and the continued violence down south to motivate tourists from the Middle East and Europe to come to Thailand and watch the action. The bars can create betting pools over who will win...the police or the demonstrators. And I'm sure the government is going to be welcome in the villages, Tambons and communities in Isaan, after the people living there have been told that the political party that they overwhelmingly supported no longer exists. This press release takes the cake for Pollyanna thinking.

[ThaiGoon]

Mmmmm ... yes, I know that. I've been living here for 10 years. I am not that stupid. That's why they were warning of problems in Bangkok, not the south. If anything happens, it will be the mobilization of people from the north and north-east. The south is a different kettle of fish and the TRT decision makes little difference to what is happening there.

I was told by a good Thai colleague that her call this morning from a friend in the south warned of possible problems in Bangkok over the next 2 weeks.

a meeting had been held by senior representatives of one of Thailand's bigger banks and managers were told to warn close friends and family about the possibility of trouble in Bangkok within the next fortnight

And by the way, SET index is going up strong again today. Looks like people who are really in the know aren't exactly worried.

[Sunderland]

Mmmmm ... yes, I know that. I've been living here for 10 years. I am not that stupid. That's why they were warning of problems in Bangkok, not the south. If anything happens, it will be the mobilization of people from the north and north-east. The south is a different kettle of fish and the TRT decision makes little difference to what is happening there.

I was told by a good Thai colleague that her call this morning from a friend in the south warned of possible problems in Bangkok over the next 2 weeks.

a meeting had been held by senior representatives of one of Thailand's bigger banks and managers were told to warn close friends and family about the possibility of trouble in Bangkok within the next fortnight

And by the way, SET index is going up strong again today. Looks like people who are really in the know aren't exactly worried.

Fair enough. Good point. I don't believe there is going to be a problem either. Obviously some people do. But I would tend to trust the SET index as a strong indicator of potential problems.

I really am not as stupid as you think. I clearly never said that the friend in the south said anything other than warn of trouble in Bangkok ... so I don't follow your rolling of eyeballs at me. If I had said that my colleague had had a phone call from a friend in Nicaragua warning of possible problems in Bangkok, the news would have still been the same, right? Much harder to believe, but still the same warning nevertheless.

[Jai Dee]

OK people, settle down. Lets not let this thread get personal... everyone has different opinions.

[hammered]

Lets be honest. There could be organised mobs descend on Bangkok. However, it is not that easy to organise. First, there doesnt actually seem to be a mood for violence even in Thaksins own Northern region from what I hear. Yes some people are pissed at the decision but that is where it is at. Second, TRT have been out of power for quite a number of months. In that time the military have not just been sitting around leaving the N and NE to do what it wants. They have been talking to people, helping some and making deals. This probably hasnt done much more than erode some support for TRT right now but nevertheless support is down from the previous highs. They have also been trying to establish their own networks based on what they think holds Thailand together. Third, it takes a lot of organization to get a large bunch of people moved a few hundred kilometers without the military noticing. Fourth, convincing people to go and demonstarte against the army is not easy at all. It is a scary thing to even consider for money. Fifth, the speech. Sixth, even up country the court decision will be accepted by some. Seventh, TRT are pretty much trying to chart a a course involving a new political party. Violence will not help this at all either with the authorities or with the voting public. Eigth, the TRT is made up of at least 7 factions. Each of these will be keeping a careful eye on what they are doing politically. There are quite a number of non-banned MPs who need to run in the next election. Rather than organising mobs they will be either scheming together on a new party or just as likely watching to see who jumps ships and joins another party. And lastly Gen. Sonthi with his key allies Gen. Monthri, Gen. Prayuth and Gen. Anupong seem to have control over the military.

I am not saying violence on alarge scale is not possible but just that anyone who wanted to organise it would have avery difficult job. That is unless all we see and hear is wrong.

[Tony Clifton]

Are the 65% of the Thai people who supported TRT just going to let this awful charade stand?! The Politics of Fear rule I know but surely something's got to happen once the enormity of this injustice sinks in. And contributors on this forum speak of Thailand now on the road to democracy! Don't make me laugh.

65% of Thais supported TRT?

There are, let's say, 65 million Thais.

TRT keeps bragging about 14 million voters. ( Even though they know the numbers are much lower a year later)

Where do you get that magic 65%?

[ColPyat]

I am not saying violence on alarge scale is not possible but just that anyone who wanted to organise it would have avery difficult job. That is unless all we see and hear is wrong.

Yeps.

Highly unlikely that there is large scale violence going to happen soon. People are very disappointed, but they still have to provide for their families, which is hard enough, and not run around playing revolution.

[younghusband]

And by the way, SET index is going up strong again today. Looks like people who are really in the know aren't exactly worried.

Classic.To descibe the short term local punters who patronise or "churn" the casino known as the SET as "really in the know" is a comic triumph.On a serious note watch for foreign sentiment.Having made those slightly dismissive though accurate comments, the SET does have opportunities and is trading at multiples far lower than other regional bourses.But don't pay too much attention to these short term ups and downs which just reflect short term local punting.

[Plus]

Are the 65% of the Thai people who supported TRT just going to let this awful charade stand?! The Politics of Fear rule I know but surely something's got to happen once the enormity of this injustice sinks in. And contributors on this forum speak of Thailand now on the road to democracy! Don't make me laugh.

65% of Thais supported TRT?

There are, let's say, 65 million Thais.

TRT keeps bragging about 14 million voters. ( Even though they know the numbers are much lower a year later)

Where do you get that magic 65%?

I think there 14 mil TRT registered members, and about 16-17 million voted for them in the last two elections (12 mil in 2000).

Basically every TRT voter was made a member.

This situation is not dissimilar to the V1 inhibitor case - lots of people had high hopes that it really cures AIDS, and Sudarat herself, as a Health Minister, organised V1 distribution at country's stadions.

Later on it was found to be a hoax and a fraud, and I bet lots of people were disappointed and had their hopes quashed, but they accepted it, and some maybe still believed in its potency. Exactly the same with TRT dissolution.

[Jai Dee]

Democrat party chief Abhisit Vejjajiva and party members are all smiles at their party headquarters yesterday.

Source: The Nation - 01 June 2007