My wife's idea for our kids to avoid National Service / Army - Is it genius or flawed? :-)

[nitpicker]

I have heard that boys who enlist in a school Army Cadet Force are currently exempt from National Service. I don't know how true this is or what conditions apply but, looking at the age of your boys, it seems worth looking into.  

[digger70]

My wife's idea for our kids to avoid National Service / Army - Is it genius or flawed? : 

 

Nothing wrong with doing a stint in the Army/Navy/airforce .It may do them a lot of good .they might Learn something and Enjoy themselves .

[Joinaman]

23 hours ago, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

as a vet, i'm sure you had lots of times dumped on someone else. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, etc 

Im sure the locals felt the benefits of your wars 

[ericthai]

23 hours ago, pookondee said:

I dont get how the idea of leaving/returning on seperate passports can even work at all.

 

If entering Thailand from abroad on a different pp,  surely Thai Immigration will be looking for a previous exit stamp?

 

The exit stamp that would be in your other passport.?

 

 

When you fly into Thailand they are not checking for any exit stamps from other countries.

Allot of countries dont have exit stamps (USA, Hong Kong, Australia etc). 

Thai immigration only looks for exit stamps at boarder crossings. 

 

[GarryP]

12 hours ago, bbko said:

I don't know if this is an official policy, but I've heard someone is luk khrueng, they aren't pulled into military service here.

Wrong. My son had to go through the process. Luckily he got a black card in the lottery so did not have to serve. 

[mattk1]

15 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

As a vet of another country I partially agree with you. HOWEVER given what you can read about the treatment of soldiers in the Thai army, I would also do everything possible to get my son out of this "club" 

 

@mattk1: Your wife's idea is flawed, since I assume that the sons would NOT live in Thailand as British citizens, but as Thai - just in order to go to school, work, not applying annually for extensions etc. I ALSO assume that they would be in a blue book somewhere, therefore officially registered as Thai citizens in Thailand, therefore fully within the system. 

They would be in Thailand classed as foreigners just like us. That's the whole idea buddy.

 

12 hours ago, baansgr said:

And what they gonna do here as foreigners...they won't be able to work

They won't need to work ????

 

6 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

So all the kids who never had any passport would then be exempt if possession of a Thai Passport was necessary for the draft???????????????

But my kids Thai passports would show them as exited Thailand.. get it?

 

6 hours ago, Falcon said:

This is not a new method just thought up by the O’P’s wife, it’s an old trick that doesn’t work or fool anyone. The call up for conscription is based on being named in the house blue book which the Thai citizen needs to be in order to get an id, passport, etc. if the child is entered in there then he will be called up for selection when he reached 18.  Either stay out of Thailand until the person reaches 30 or join ror dor (army cadets basically) for 3 years while in schoo. These are the only 2 options available to live a “normal” life in Thailand and not have to worry about having problems.you can have their name taken off the blue book but this would then cause problems of all sorts during their whole time here, no ID card, no Thai passport, etc. if you try to be clever and do as your wife suggests, you’ll find your some flying in to the country on their English passports and then immediately the immigration outs in their details, they’ll be whisked off to the army camp for 2 years as they do keep information if this nature on their computer and so manage to link the details to the Thai citizenship. I have personally seen a couple of people thinking that they are outwitting the system bu doing exactly what the OP’s wife suggested and it certainly didn’t work out very well for the sons who ended up doing their full 2 years service, directly from Theo airport to the army barracks. Reason for this is that they get a court order (warrant) placed as active on the police computers if the person names in the blue book doesn’t show up for the draw.

But the kids names would be on the blue book regardless of being in Thailand or not, right?

 

5 hours ago, marin said:

I think you should be miffed at each other for neglecting to renew their Thai passports. Even within the UK its not that hard to do. Especially with you two being there to help.  

 

Your wife's plan wont work. Its all based on their Thai national ID. Unless you forgo getting these they will be eligible for conscription.

If you read the original post I linked that would explain why we couldn't renew them buddy

 

3 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Sure! It´s 1890, computer are not invented and Immigration has no clue how to link passports with different nationalities. Nah! That won´t work.

Well if they are that advanced why can't they click a button to say they are Thai and have Thai passports.. LOL

 

3 hours ago, surfinglife said:

Why would you support the idea of avoiding the military service? It makes men out of today's sissy boys.

Nah, not for my kids. Not in Thailand anyway buddy

 

3 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

My son did the 2 year cadet course while he was at school and has therefore legally avoided the national service lottery.

 

BTW I'm still trying to figure out why your wife was so angry with Thai Immigration. It appears from what you say they simply applied the standard procedure.

 

Another one who can't see why this was annoying... LOL. Ok buddy 

[mattk1]

Thanks for all the replies gents and ladies if any.

 

It seems like no one has actually tried this method. Unless things change I reckon it's worth a go.. got to be worth a shot ????

Edited September 24, 2021 by mattk1

[MrJ2U]

With a foreign education and the ability to speak both English and Thai they may actually get a good position in the forces.

 

Imagine pilot training,  foreign affairs, or translators.

 

 

 

 

[mattk1]

3 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

With a foreign education and the ability to speak both English and Thai they may actually get a good position in the forces.

 

Imagine pilot training,  foreign affairs, or translators.

 

 

 

 

The timing of your reply was perfect... I was just asking my youngest before what he wants to do when he is grown up, to which he replied 'I want to be an airplane'. I said do you mean pilot... ha ha we've got some work to do I reckon! ????

[billd766]

6 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

A friend of mine has a step son approaching Thai Lottery draft age. I'm guessing that what applies to his step son could be applied in this scenario too.  While the step son was at high school he joined the school's cadet corp.  Turns out that doing so, and completing the course,  automatically exempted him from the draft.  Perhaps when the OP's kids are old enough, and if attending high school in Thailand, they could do the same thing.  It's worth making enquiries of high schools in the region they would be living in Thailand to ascertain if the school had a cadet corp and if the draft exemption would apply.

My son, now 17 did this and it was his decision to do so.

[EricTh]

The problem is that your kids might lose their Thai ID for evading the military lottery after knowing that they have dual nationalities.

 

Do you want that to happen?

 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, digger70 said:

My wife's idea for our kids to avoid National Service / Army - Is it genius or flawed? : 

 

Nothing wrong with doing a stint in the Army/Navy/airforce .It may do them a lot of good .they might Learn something and Enjoy themselves .

In normal countries I would agree with you.

 

Not in Thailand however.

 

In the south squaddies are being sent on patrol in un-armoured pickup trucks and on motorcycles. The Thai army got 60 of M1126 Stryker infantry fighting vehicles which are being polished to death as they are based in Bangkok, far away from the fighting in the south where they are really needed.

[MrJ2U]

1 hour ago, mattk1 said:

The timing of your reply was perfect... I was just asking my youngest before what he wants to do when he is grown up, to which he replied 'I want to be an airplane'. I said do you mean pilot... ha ha we've got some work to do I reckon! ????

Kids are great.

 

Just had our sons second birthday party this evening.

 

Enjoy your weekend!

 

 

[it is what it is]

On 9/23/2021 at 1:44 PM, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

 

career soldier or national service? citizens can serve and contribute to their country in many ways, not only via military service

[Swiss1960]

6 hours ago, mattk1 said:

They would be in Thailand classed as foreigners just like us. That's the whole idea buddy.

 

They won't need to work 

The flaws in your thinking are obvious... 

 

Your kids are now 9 and 7 according to your post... but you are discussing a situation in between 10 and 20 years in the future, when your kids will be in the age where conscription can happen (normally 21, but anytime between 18 and 29, if i.e. they were out of country when they were 21). At that time, your kids would be on their own, need their own visas etc.

 

And in your previous post, you write that you don't even have the money for a UK quarantine... now you want to make us believe, that you kids, once they reach conscription age, still don't need to work? Pretty unbelievable, right?

 

You better start thinking this situation over again and not take decisions that in 10 years from now are fully the responsibility of your kids. You don`t even know where they will want to live by then...

 

And btw I am not your buddy.

[arithai12]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:44 PM, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

1) define "country's defense". I can think of a lot of instances in which individual soldiers or whole armies do things which have nothing to do with "defense" and are quite despicable. Some others are good and honorable of course, usually without any connection to “defense”.

2) in your years as a veteran, I assume you were earning a salary and carrying equipment and weapons. Ever wonder who was "paying the costs"?  That’s right, that was us morally bankrupt people.

The OP is looking for a way out of military service in Thailand, not your country. Considering what we read about a conscript’s life here, I find it justified.

ps: for me and many others, vet is a veterinarian.

[Andycoops]

23 hours ago, Crossy said:

It's definitely worth looking at the Cadet Service (not sure what it's called in Thai) as that can get them out of doing the conscription lottery.

 

Or they could actually volunteer which could get them in the navy or air force, a much nicer ride than the army.

My son joined the army cadets at his high school as I was told that it counts towards being exempted from military service.

He was never called up to the draft and is now at university.

[brianthainess]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:44 PM, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

What western Country in recent years has had to Defend itself ? 

[brianthainess]

19 hours ago, TXTony said:

This is the best answer. Throw some boobs in there for a year then take them back out afterwards.

And buy them a nice pretty dress.

[brianthainess]

16 hours ago, surfinglife said:

Why would you support the idea of avoiding the military service? It makes men out of today's sissy boys.

I would rather a 'sissy' boy than an aggressive or dead one. 

[brianthainess]

16 hours ago, surfinglife said:

Why would you support the idea of avoiding the military service? It makes men out of today's sissy boys.

I would rather a 'sissy' boy than an aggressive or dead one. 

[mattk1]

6 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

The flaws in your thinking are obvious... 

 

Your kids are now 9 and 7 according to your post... but you are discussing a situation in between 10 and 20 years in the future, when your kids will be in the age where conscription can happen (normally 21, but anytime between 18 and 29, if i.e. they were out of country when they were 21). At that time, your kids would be on their own, need their own visas etc.

 

And in your previous post, you write that you don't even have the money for a UK quarantine... now you want to make us believe, that you kids, once they reach conscription age, still don't need to work? Pretty unbelievable, right?

 

You better start thinking this situation over again and not take decisions that in 10 years from now are fully the responsibility of your kids. You don`t even know where they will want to live by then...

 

And btw I am not your buddy.

Swiss1960, you say the flaws are obvious but really they aren't ????

 

Then in your second paragraph you say "At that time, your kids would be on their own, need their own visas etc". Well according to immigration, that's the status they are now LOL.. They have to have a visa NOW, even as Thai kids with renewed THAI passports. Can't you see how stupid that is?

 

Then you mention my kids not needing to work, how do you know anything about their situation? For all you know, at age 18 they could be inheriting millions ????

 

Anyway thanks for your input buddy ????

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by mattk1

[brianthainess]

13 hours ago, digger70 said:

My wife's idea for our kids to avoid National Service / Army - Is it genius or flawed? : 

 

Nothing wrong with doing a stint in the Army/Navy/airforce .It may do them a lot of good .they might Learn something and Enjoy themselves .

It may also do them a lot harm.

[HeijoshinCool]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:44 AM, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

.

Yeah, I'm a vet, too, but I also defended the rights of people who think different than me.

 

Morally bankrupt? Thems fight'n words.

[Swiss1960]

4 minutes ago, mattk1 said:

Swiss1960, you say the flaws are obvious but really they aren't ????

 

Then in your second paragraph you say "At that time, your kids would be on their own, need their own visas etc". Well according to immigration, that's the status they are now LOL.. They have to have a visa NOW, even as Thai kids with renewed THAI passports. Can't you see how stupid that is?

 

Then you mention my kids not needing to work, how do you know anything about their situation? For all you know, at age 18 they could be inheriting millions ????

 

Anyway thanks for your input buddy ????

 

 

If you can't see the flaws, then for your kids, I hope that they earned their mental capabilities from their mother... 

Next flaw: Even though they need a Visa / extension, they are not "on their own", their Visa is depending on yours...

 

Dream on about your kids future, up to you

 

But you don't want to hear, you can't comprehend intelligent and valid arguments (from all the people who tried to give you input) and like to be such a smug boy and always right, so you have earned a slot on my ignore list, my boy

[mattk1]

3 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

If you can't see the flaws, then for your kids, I hope that they earned their mental capabilities from their mother... 

Next flaw: Even though they need a Visa / extension, they are not "on their own", their Visa is depending on yours...

 

Dream on about your kids future, up to you

 

But you don't want to hear, you can't comprehend intelligent and valid arguments (from all the people who tried to give you input) and like to be such a smug boy and always right, so you have earned a slot on my ignore list, my boy

Thanks buddy have a good day ????

[mtls2005]

Former pm abhisit - not a luk khrueng - was always trying to live down his 'military service' issue.

 

abhisit's nephew chose to volunteer...

 

Parit, 26, who went to high school in England, had three options: to draw lots, to postpone his military service, or to apply voluntarily to be a draftee.
He decided to take the last option.

His voluntary enrolment also means he will only be trained for six months, while those taking the option to draw lots have to do two years of service.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/30342400

 

Other folks have relocated to villages where the conscription levels are routinely met with volunteers so no red card/black card stress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brianthainess]

14 hours ago, Joinaman said:

as a vet, i'm sure you had lots of times dumped on someone else. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, etc 

Im sure the locals felt the benefits of your wars 

Well said.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/24/2021 at 6:11 AM, FalangTingTong said:

At the risk of providing useless anecdata…

 

In the EU I have been asked before at national borders whether I have any other passports,  probably because of my weird international accent.

 

I don’t have, but if I did and lied about it I would be committing a serious crime, and if caught I would expect national entry bans at the very least.

 

So keep in mind that if you’re betting your kids’ convenience/safety/education or whatever on avoiding obligations via passport tricks, at any time they might have to show their cards, and your troubles might suddenly be much greater than had you just parked them in Britain long enough for the issue to time out,  YMMV of course, just my opinion.

What does YMMV mean? Another poster who thinks he/she is texting.

[Saltire]

8 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

What does YMMV mean? Another poster who thinks he/she is texting.

Ha I had to google it too

 

Your Mileage May Vary i.e. you may have a different opinion.