What's With All The Monks Smoking Cigarettes?

[Weho]

I don't claim to be an expert on Buddhism or monks, but I often see monks in their flowing orange robes, smoking cigarettes. Completely out in the open, in public, with no shame or embarassment. Now nicotine is classified as a DRUG, as caffeine is. I suppose it's permitted, but is it encouraged or discouraged? Doesn't seem very "monkly" to me... not really setting a good example...

And when you make a donation to monks, you know at lease some of the money is going toward cigarettes for someone. Is this right?

[sabaijai]

Search for 'cigarettes' or 'smoking' in this subforum and you'll find some discussion on this issue. Basically there's nothing in the Vinaya (Book of Monastic Discipline) about it. For a few years now, however, the Thai Sangha leadership has forbidden smoking inside monastery walls. Some abbots enforce the decree, others don't.

[Ave]

I wondered the same myself for quite some time when I first arrived in Thailand and I didn't hesitate to enquire at the temple where I worked for a few months. I was explained by several long term knowledgeable monks and many Thai laic followers around the country that all desires should be estinguished, especially unhealthy ones such as the most popular vices or as they call them "abayamook" (I think) which one would normally link to drugs or addictive things (I consider chocolate and tv highly dangerous.. ). Ideally no monk, parent, teacher, mentor and also common person should smoke or give the bad example to others. But after all even monks are human beings and it is really down to the individual to raise his life state by doing what is wise for him to do. My personal opinion is that the more you try to suppress a desire the more precious the object of desire becomes. I call it human nature. I would not condemn monk smokers harshly although they seem to contradict the teachings. They should refrain themselves if they want to follow the rules exactly as I was given to understand they are. But then most monks have been suppressing a big deal of desires during their monastic life and considering how tolerant the Thais are usually, I would not object to see them puffing the occasional roll-up.

[Weho]

Interesting... so it would be unfair for me to call them hypocrits. But truthfully, if they must smoke, they should at least do it out of view of others. On public streets, they look suspect, if asking for donations, and smoking at the same time. Saw that in Bangkok last week.

[colino]

A few temples iv been to the monks ask for cigarettes ,, then sneak off round the back of a hut , ????

Quick call the tourist police ha ha

Edited June 1, 2007 by colino

[fabianfred]

Interesting... so it would be unfair for me to call them hypocrits. But truthfully, if they must smoke, they should at least do it out of view of others. On public streets, they look suspect, if asking for donations, and smoking at the same time. Saw that in Bangkok last week.

monks should never ask for donations........ it is against their rules of conduct.......especially money

you should get a policeman to check their veracity if you meet monks asking for money....

If a monk practises the dhamma correctly and lives as he should, he will never want for any of the basic necessities..... if you protect the true dhamma... it will protect you

Edited June 2, 2007 by fabianfred

[camerata]

In 25 years in Thailand I've never seen a monk asking for donations.

[meadish_sweetball]

I don't claim to be an expert on Buddhism or monks, but I often see monks in their flowing orange robes, smoking cigarettes. Completely out in the open, in public, with no shame or embarassment. Now nicotine is classified as a DRUG, as caffeine is. I suppose it's permitted, but is it encouraged or discouraged? Doesn't seem very "monkly" to me... not really setting a good example...

And when you make a donation to monks, you know at lease some of the money is going toward cigarettes for someone. Is this right?

I seem to recall a monk I trust and have reason to believe, telling me that in the scriptures, "leaves being smoked in a pipe" is acceptable practice for monks. Cigarettes are not being smoked in a pipe, but this message, if relayed true by the monk and me, does suggest smoking some type of herb is allowed.

Most people these days do not approve of tobacco smoking for obvious reasons, so many feel monks should not smoke to set a good example.

But if one is genuinely concerned about the state of Buddhism perhaps the best thing to do is to change ones own life for the better, as setting a good example is probably a more effective idea than pointing fingers at the problems others have on the way.

[camerata]

I seem to recall a monk I trust and have reason to believe, telling me that in the scriptures, "leaves being smoked in a pipe" is acceptable practice for monks. Cigarettes are not being smoked in a pipe, but this message, if relayed true by the monk and me, does suggest smoking some type of herb is allowed.

Yes this is mentioned in Life as a Siamese Monk.

[sutnyod]

In 25 years in Thailand I've never seen a monk asking for donations.

Lucky you! I always do. They hitch a ride and when I drop them off where they want to go they ask. They even are so helpful as to open their bags for me so I can conveniently put the money in without touching them. I know they should not, but have found no polite way to say 'no'. However, if I meet the next one who asks me so bluntly I will say I prefer to donate whatever little money I have to my favoured community/pagoda (which is true anyway).

[bankei]

In 25 years in Thailand I've never seen a monk asking for donations.

I am constantly being asked for donations by various monks - they ask for money, coke, jeans, t-shirts and one even asked me to buy him a motorbike!

It became so annoying that I just flatly say no and even had an argument with one monk (who smelt like wiskey) I told him monks do not need money and he replied that they did need money to buy things like cigarettes etc.

[cdnvic]

In 25 years in Thailand I've never seen a monk asking for donations.

I am constantly being asked for donations by various monks - they ask for money, coke, jeans, t-shirts and one even asked me to buy him a motorbike!

It became so annoying that I just flatly say no and even had an argument with one monk (who smelt like wiskey) I told him monks do not need money and he replied that they did need money to buy things like cigarettes etc.

I would be pretty certain that this was a "lapsed" monk, or not one at all. Scam artists are not above donning a robe.

[Weho]

About a year ago, I was checking in a Bangkok airport, economy class, for a British Airways flight to Sydney. Nearby was the business class line, and there were four monks checking into business class on the same flight. They were accompanied by an Asian non-monk, also going business class. I will presume that they were not given free upgrades to business class, or they would have first checked in, in the economy line, like the rest of the "great unwashed", like me.

I do not know if the monks' temple/temples paid for the expensive tickets, or if someone else did, but it just looked bad to me. Economy tickets are about $700 for a roundtrip, and business class has to be a minimum of $3,000 for a roundtrip, maybe as much as $5,000. So basically, that's easily two or three THOUSAND dollars for EACH of the monk's, that otherwise could have gone to maybe help the poor, temple upkeep/repairs/utilities, or even buy cigarettes for the monks. There is no way I can justify anyone paying that money for business class tickets for monk travel, for any reason.

[jdinasia]

so ... it would be LESS hypocratic if monks HID and lied and obfuscated etc etc .... oi! But very simply ... how someone else travels should have no bearing in your life should it?

Do you know how air tickets were paid for? By whom? etc etc ? No ... just dreaming huh?

[Plus]

how someone else travels should have no bearing in your life should it?

One naturally tries to follow the monks, they are the enlightened ones...

In this case the trip was probably sponsored, not paid from their temple accounts. If you want monks to preside over opening ceremony of a your new department store, for example, you wouldn't want them to come on foot, you'll send a limo.

Part of a culture - money spent on monks and temples is not the same as money wasted on luxury items. For many it's an investment.

[cdnvic]

how someone else travels should have no bearing in your life should it?

One naturally tries to follow the monks, they are the enlightened ones...

In this case the trip was probably sponsored, not paid from their temple accounts. If you want monks to preside over opening ceremony of a your new department store, for example, you wouldn't want them to come on foot, you'll send a limo.

Part of a culture - money spent on monks and temples is not the same as money wasted on luxury items. For many it's an investment.

Many wealthier Thais overseas will also fly them in for weddings.

[chownah]

One naturally tries to follow the monks, they are the enlightened ones...

Monks are usually not enlightened...

[Plus]

Come on, I know they are not enlightened...

[Weho]

so ... it would be LESS hypocratic if monks HID and lied and obfuscated etc etc .... oi! But very simply ... how someone else travels should have no bearing in your life should it?

Do you know how air tickets were paid for? By whom? etc etc ? No ... just dreaming huh?

Please read more carefully... i made it quite clear that I had no idea who paid for their business class tickets. All I know is I sat in C, C, C:

Cramped, crowded, coach.

[Weho]

how someone else travels should have no bearing in your life should it?

One naturally tries to follow the monks, they are the enlightened ones...

Puh-leese... you should read the new book "God is not Great", by the great British author Christopher Hitchens...

how religion poisons EVERYTHING.

But i'll admit that in Thailand, and with Buddhism, it poisons everything a little bit less than in any so called "western" country.

[banchang]

how someone else travels should have no bearing in your life should it?

One naturally tries to follow the monks, they are the enlightened ones...

Puh-leese... you should read the new book "God is not Great", by the great British author Christopher Hitchens...

how religion poisons EVERYTHING.

But i'll admit that in Thailand, and with Buddhism, it poisons everything a little bit less than in any so called "western" country.

What a brilliant book , just finnished it. Unfortunatly it will have no inpact on faith heads.

If you liked the book have a look on youtube at hitchens and see him in action the guy is one of the greatest debaters i have ever seen.

[weary]

Monks are not allowed to refuse gifts, and many Thai people strongly believe that offering things to monks gives them great religious merit, which can improve their next life. It's true some monks take advantage of this even though that is not allowed. As was said above, the monks were most likely given these tickets, possibly by the lay person in their company.

[Weho]

how someone else travels should have no bearing in your life should it?

One naturally tries to follow the monks, they are the enlightened ones...

Puh-leese... you should read the new book "God is not Great", by the great British author Christopher Hitchens...

how religion poisons EVERYTHING.

But i'll admit that in Thailand, and with Buddhism, it poisons everything a little bit less than in any so called "western" country.

What a brilliant book , just finnished it. Unfortunatly it will have no inpact on faith heads.

If you liked the book have a look on youtube at hitchens and see him in action the guy is one of the greatest debaters i have ever seen.

Yes, when he's not drunk, he's great fun to watch. I saw his recent debate, I think on Larry King or Anderson Cooper, not sure, with some religious wackos... he was relentless, and backed everything with FACTS, rather than celestial observations.

[cdnvic]

Facts are fine when programming robots, but when you deal with humans the subtleties of emotion, desire, and spirituality there can leave big gaps left if there's nothing to fill them.

I'm not saying the earth was created in six days or anything, just that there's more to life than the likes of Hitchens understand.

Edited June 4, 2007 by cdnvic

[Weho]

Facts are fine when programming robots, but when you deal with humans the subtleties of emotion, desire, and spirituality there can leave big gaps left if there's nothing to fill them.

I'm not saying the earth was created in six days or anything, just that there's more to life than the likes of Hitchens understand.

I'm about halfway through the book, (i think i got the last one the big japanese bookstore had at Siam Paragon), and it's a real "page turner"... if you know what i mean. I have seen Mr. Hitchens on debate shows and internet clips, when he appeared to have had a few cocktails before the interview/debate.

If I'm not mistaken, I think i read somewhere recently that he was a supporter of Bush's war in Iraq. Please don't quote me on that one, cause I'm only about 65% sure that's what I read. i'm not even sure where i read it, but I know it wasn't Pattaya People newspaper.

But getting back to the monks... even if some wealthy overseas Thai person wanted monks to come officiate at their wedding, to fly them in business class seems contrary to what monks are supposed to be about. I'm not saying they should only fly Nok Air, or Air Asia, or One-Two Go, or Tiger Air, or Jetstar/Valueair, or Cebu Pacific, or Porn's Discount Thai Airlines... but it seems very wasteful to me, and will bring BAD LUCK to anyone who pays for their tickets/encourages LUXURY MONK TRAVEL. Shame.

[sabaijai]

Study Shows That Being Judgemental May Increase Risk of Anxiety

A recent study performed by researchers at the University of Vermont’s Department of Psychology explored possible links between anxiety and mindfulness skills.

The study looked at 154 young adults in their early 20’s. Researchers found a significant association between certain mindfulness skills and high levels of both negative affectivity (also known as neuroticism) and anxiety sensitivity.

Essentially, the more anxiety a person experiences, the less they will be able to practice mindfulness skills. Specifically, negative affectivity leads to greater difficulty with awareness, acceptance, and description mindfulness skills. Anxiety sensitivity makes it especially difficult for those with anxiety to practice awareness and acceptance.

What does this mean? At their most basic, mindfulness skills are our ability to be in the present moment, avoid harsh judgment of ourselves and others, and act with deliberation. When a person lacks mindfulness skills, it can lead to impulsive unwanted behaviors, avoidance, and a general feeling of dissatisfaction. People dealing with anxiety often “act out” to avoid their anxious feelings, abusing drugs or alcohol, overspending, overeating or under eating, or participating in any number of other negative coping behaviors because they lack awareness of what they are feeling or the ability to sit with the anxious feelings in the moment. Clearly this can lead to negative outcomes.

Everyone experiences negative emotions. The distinction between those with anxiety disorders and those who do not suffer from anxiety disorders is that those with anxiety disorders lack the mindfulness skills needed to sit with negative emotions, name them, process them, and cope in healthy, self-supporting ways. Anxiety is commonly linked with avoidance, the opposite of mindfulness, and can best be described as “getting in bed and pulling the covers over your head.” The more a person can become aware (mindful) of their negative emotions, the more they will be able to overcome their anxiety and learn to live with the full spectrum of emotions.

What are mindfulness skills? According to the scale used by the researchers performing the study, mindfulness skills include awareness, acceptance, description, and act. Awareness is the ability to observe without judgment what is going on around and inside of the individual. When someone has awareness, they can sit back and recognize both internal and external events. Acceptance is the ability to deal with what is really going on, saying, “This is what is,” without placing judgments of “good” or “bad” on the situation. Description is the ability to put words to those events. It’s the ability to use language to describe one’s feelings and thoughts and the events that triggered those feelings and thoughts. Act is simply that; the ability to take action after conscious, mindful deliberation.

The link between high anxiety and low-level mindfulness skills could explain the reinforcement of negative coping skills in people suffering from anxiety. It could also point to possible therapeutic techniques for those with anxiety disorder. Dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT), a therapeutic technique originally designed for patients dealing with borderline personality disorder, focuses on 4 components. One component of DBT is mindfulness skills training. This therapeutic technique could also be used by patients with anxiety disorder for developing those same skills. Also, while preliminary research has shown a tenuous link between mindfulness meditation and anxiety improvement, learning mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) techniques including mindfulness meditation could help reduce anxiety if lack of mindfulness skills contributes to an individual’s feelings of anxiety.

In general, mindfulness is a key component of Eastern spiritual practices such as Buddhism. More research is needed to show a definite link, but intuitive wisdom suggests that mindfulness skills lead to a healthier, happier emotional state.

Courtesy Insight Journal

[jdinasia]

LOL ...

[jumnien]

Anapanasati, or mindfulness of the breath, and contemplation of death are two common techniques used by meditation masters. What better way to combine the two than by smoking cigarettes?

[toptuan]

In 25 years in Thailand I've never seen a monk asking for donations.

Donations of money or breakfast. What's the difference?

[rychrde]

Anapanasati, or mindfulness of the breath, and contemplation of death are two common techniques used by meditation masters. What better way to combine the two than by smoking cigarettes?