How do I bleed this pump please?

[up2you2]

A couple of attached images.

The one of the pump has a screw that I think you need an Allen key to open it, unreal the position it is in, if I have to top it up with water?

 

 

[MJCM]

According to this that type number it is just a Pressure Tank so it's not the Pump!!

 

https://product-selection.grundfos.com/products/pressure-tanks/gt-h/gt-h-24-pn10-g1-v-96528339?tab=variant-specifications

 

Edit: So please find the type number of the PUMP!

 

 

[Dante99]

Topic name says "bleed" the pump which means dran the water out and post says top it up with water.  Opposites.  Which are you trying to do?

 

To drain it, most likely you just remove the fitting/bolt under the pipe that goes to the left.

To fill it you would have to get into the fitting on top of where the pipe from the left enters.  Difficult because of the location of the top pipe.  Better yet provide a photo of the top pipe going up, extend up from top right corner.  There may be a plug that you can remove there to access a fill point.  Mine has a fill point there

 

When you repipe have them angle the top pipe so that it does not cover the fill point but please do not have them change the pipe going to the left.  All that white pipe tape on the outside of the joints is classic.

5 minutes ago, MJCM said:

 

Is that type number correct?

 

According to this, it's a Pressure Tank so it's not the Pump!!

 

 

he probably thought the label on the tank was for the whole unit

 

 

 

[Crossy]

What is your actual problem, we have this pump (or a very similar one).

 

What is the source? Tank, direct mains, well??

 

[up2you2]

56 minutes ago, MJCM said:

According to this that type number it is just a Pressure Tank so it's not the Pump!!

 

https://product-selection.grundfos.com/products/pressure-tanks/gt-h/gt-h-24-pn10-g1-v-96528339?tab=variant-specifications

 

Edit: So please find the type number of the PUMP!

 

 

CM Booster PT, I think that is it.

[up2you2]

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

What is your actual problem, we have this pump (or a very similar one).

 

What is the source? Tank, direct mains, well??

 

The sunken storage tank outside became dry, eventually we got it to fill up, then I couldn't get the pump to start.

On the one I had previous we had to top it up manually with water.

Eventually had to call in an engineer to get it going again.

I would just like to know what he had to do, and how it was done please.

[Crossy]

OK, underground tank.

 

You need to fill the lift pipe and pump with water, probably easiest to disconnect the service union (which you probably don't have) and fill via that, otherwise remove that hex plug and fill the pipe, very, very slowly (air needs to escape).

 

I suppose it's a means to encourage you not to let the tank run dry again ???? 

 

Does the lift pipe have a removable cap at the top perchance??

 

A thought, if you have a wet n dry vac it might have the oomph to suck up the water if you apply it to the pump outlet.

 

[up2you2]

14 minutes ago, Crossy said:

OK, underground tank.

 

You need to fill the lift pipe and pump with water, probably easiest to disconnect the service union (which you probably don't have) and fill via that, otherwise remove that hex plug and fill the pipe, very, very slowly (air needs to escape).

 

I suppose it's a means to encourage you not to let the tank run dry again ???? 

 

Does the lift pipe have a removable cap at the top perchance??

 

A thought, if you have a wet n dry vac it might have the oomph to suck up the water if you apply it to the pump outlet.

 

Thank you, this all makes sense, but it is all much more than I anticipated.
I was just thinking that you had to unscrew the Allen screw in the picture, and then top it up with water from there.

What you're suggesting, as this is not my forte, is perhaps a video on this, if such a one exists.  

[Crossy]

19 minutes ago, up2you2 said:

I was just thinking that you had to unscrew the Allen screw in the picture, and then top it up with water from there.

 

That's it, but since it's not a self-priming pump you will need to get quite a lot of water into the pump and pipe (and let the air out).

 

[MJCM]

- post withdrawn -

 

 

[Artisi]

If this is an ongoing problem, I suggest :

Remove the allen screw bolt, find a small machine shop or the local fix-it-all guy to make a fitting that can screw into the bolt-hole one end and a male  1/2" pipe thread on the other, fit an on/off valve then a garden hose fitting to the valve, connect your garden hose to fill the pump. Left it fill for a minute or so, start the pump, leave the valve open for a bit until the pump picks up and starts pumping, once running close the valve till next time. 

 

PS. After thinking about it, possibly the Allen headed plug might already be a pipe thread. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JetsetBkk]

19 hours ago, up2you2 said:

Eventually had to call in an engineer to get it going again.

I would just like to know what he had to do, and how it was done please.

Call him again. Video what he does.

[Saanim]

Cut the pipe and insert a T-piece with a valve that enables you to fill water. Let the water slowly fill in the pipe, bubbling through, wait and fill in again unless it does not sink, then shut off the valve and start the pump.  

[VocalNeal]

Does the existing installation have check or non-return valves in the system? If not install one in the suction line. 

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

Cut the pipe and insert a T-piece with a valve that enables you to fill water. Let the water slowly fill in the pipe, bubbling through, wait and fill in again unless it does not sink, then shut off the valve and start the pump.  

only works if the water doesn't run out the inlet pipe , its ok if there is a NRV on the inlet pipe, if the supply is above the pump or similar level ,  in the OP's case the water level is below the pump.

[up2you2]

3 hours ago, Artisi said:

only works if the water doesn't run out the inlet pipe , its ok if there is a NRV on the inlet pipe, if the supply is above the pump or similar level ,  in the OP's case the water level is below the pump.

Correct, the storage tank is below this pump, so just a clarification here please, then this idea would not work?

[VocalNeal]

It doesn't matter if the suction level is below the pump you still need a check valve in the system to stop the water draining back into the tank. As long as the pump has some water to "grab hold of" then the suction generated will lift water from the tank.

You didn't say this happens frequently. If it does then in addition to the check valve we need to think laterally.

How much physical space do we have for some additional piping?

[up2you2]

34 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

It doesn't matter if the suction level is below the pump you still need a check valve in the system to stop the water draining back into the tank. As long as the pump has some water to "grab hold of" then the suction generated will lift water from the tank.

You didn't say this happens frequently. If it does then in addition to the check valve we need to think laterally.

How much physical space do we have for some additional piping?

All of 8" inches from the pump to the exterior wall.

[Artisi]

30 minutes ago, up2you2 said:

All of 8" inches from the pump to the exterior wall.

I would have thought there would have been a check valve (NRV) on the inlet side, possibly on the bottom of your inlet pipe within the tank. Suggest you have a look to see there is, if yes ----- it is probably faulty. 

[VocalNeal]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:50 PM, up2you2 said:

CM Booster PT, I think that is it.

Your CM booster pump only has a 1m suction lift so if the underground tank level is low it will always be working outside specs. Does your problem happen frequently and why does the underground tank go low? Do you really need the 10bar outlet pressure?

 

As was said above maybe there is a foot valve at the bottom of the suction pipe inside the tank. 

 

If there is a foot valve and the problem only occurs once in a blue moon then the system fill valve suggested would work. If it happens more frequently then we need to ponder again. From the pictures we can squeeze some pipe in next to the pump.

 

 

[up2you2]

Some more details of our pumps.
We have a well, water is drawn up by a Makita pump from Japan, no longer available, cost the earth, but a fantastic purchase as it has never if ever very rarely gone wrong.
This must have been one of those few occasions, whereby it had stopped filling up the storage tank.

From this storage there is a pipe which sucks up the water, nothing at the end of it.
This idea of attaching a NRV at the end sounds good, a good idea thanks.

[JetsetBkk]

5 hours ago, up2you2 said:

water is drawn up by a Makita pump from Japan

Wow. All the way from Japan. That's pretty damn good suction.

[Artisi]

6 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

Wow. All the way from Japan. That's pretty damn good suction.

Possible with the right hydraulic design. 

[up2you2]

It would need to be primed as per attached.

 

Now pay attention everyone, as I will be testing you at the end of the week.

CM (Quick Guide) (1).pdf

[RafPinto]

Let him do the job.

The bleeding comes straight away.

[Artisi]

Testing - that's school hydraulics 101.

Same proceedure for the unit shown below. 

[Saanim]

Usually the problem is with the check valve, it needs to clean it from the small dirt under the gasket (blow out/in).  It's good to protect the sucking by a fine net. Or exchange the valve if leaking (the gasket is damaged or the spring), it does not cost much.