People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Most polls show a majority of people support vaccine mandates. Makes sense as a majority of people in most countries are vaccinated.  Sadly, a few nutters are holding out.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/14/guardian-essential-poll-majority-of-australians-support-vaccine-mandates

Guardian Essential poll: majority of Australians support vaccine mandates

Polls IMO are unreliable as the result is determined by the questions.

Polls are not democracy.

 

Do you support banning tobacco, as most don't smoke, and smoking kills?

Do you support mandatory stomach stapling for the obese, given obesity kills by causing heart problems and diabetes?

 

Etc.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Polls IMO are unreliable as the result is determined by the questions.

Polls are not democracy.

 

Polls are the way we determine what the population wants.  Used all the time and hardly undemocratic.

 

But yes, polls can be setup to skew the results.  I use to be in marketing and developed polls quite a bit.  Not an easy task.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Polls are the way we determine what the population wants.  Used all the time and hardly undemocratic.

 

But yes, polls can be setup to skew the results.  I use to be in marketing and developed polls quite a bit.  Not an easy task.

IMO there is no way that laws mandating vaccination based on polls would be democratic. Anyone that thinks it would not cause a major societal catastrophe are IMO fooling themselves.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO there is no way that laws mandating vaccination based on polls would be democratic. Anyone that thinks it would not cause a major societal catastrophe are IMO fooling themselves.

Pretty much every poll I've seen shows the majority support this.  The unvaccinated are causing major societal catastrophes.  Time for that to change.  There is ZIP reason not to get inoculated.  Other than a very few who have health issues.

[Credo]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Polls IMO are unreliable as the result is determined by the questions.

Polls are not democracy.

 

Do you support banning tobacco, as most don't smoke, and smoking kills?

Do you support mandatory stomach stapling for the obese, given obesity kills by causing heart problems and diabetes?

 

Etc.

 

 

Smoking isn't contagious.  You won't catch smoking from me and I am restricted from smoking in a place where your exposure is unlikely to harm you but there is an outside chance that it could.   

 

Obesity is also not contagious.  No matter how much you eat or how fat you get, it only affects you.   

That's the difference.   

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Pretty much every poll I've seen shows the majority support this.  The unvaccinated are causing major societal catastrophes.  Time for that to change.  There is ZIP reason not to get inoculated.  Other than a very few who have health issues.

If you don't know why some will not take some of the vaccines you have apparently not been taking notice of what is going on.

People are human beings, not programmable robots ( yet ). We don't respond well to dictators.

 

At least some of us still have the ability to replace a government we disagree with by peaceful means.

[blackprince]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

At least some of us still have the ability to replace a government we disagree with by peaceful means.

In theory, but in Britain the alternative to Johnson's corrupt cabal is Labour who are more pro caution than Johnson & co.

 

In the US, 50% of the alternative to Biden is in QAnon territory.

 

Strange but true, Thailand's regime has been more liberal than those 2 pinnacles of democracy to date!

 

Germany moving to lockdown the unvaxxed.

 

Not being facetious, but which country did you have in mind?

Edited December 3, 2021 by blackprince

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Credo said:

Obesity is also not contagious.  No matter how much you eat or how fat you get, it only affects you.   

Seriously???????>

Obese people ( and smokers ) take up a LARGE part of the health budget, by getting sick and requiring major surgery, medical and cancer treatment for conditions directly caused by obesity and tobacco. Taxpayers have to fund that, so it affects us all that pay tax, and fills up hospital beds so those of us that don't eat too much bad food or smoke have to wait for our admissions.

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously???????>

Obese people ( and smokers ) take up a LARGE part of the health budget, by getting sick and requiring major surgery, medical and cancer treatment for conditions directly caused by obesity and tobacco. Taxpayers have to fund that, so it affects us all that pay tax, and fills up hospital beds so those of us that don't eat too much bad food or smoke have to wait for our admissions.

And in some cases, they pay higher insurance rates.  But for sure, this is an issue.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, blackprince said:

In theory, but in Britain the alternative to Johnson's corrupt cabal is Labour who are more pro caution than Johnson & co.

 

In the US, 50% of the alternative to Biden is in QAnon territory.

 

Strange but true, Thailand's regime has been more liberal than those 2 pinnacles of democracy to date!

 

Germany moving to lockdown the unvaxxed.

 

Not being facetious, but which country did you have in mind?

I'm sure every democratic country has political parties that wouldn't normally have a chance of being the government being in a position to have enough seats to force a coalition that would rule against mandates.

[blackprince]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm sure every democratic country has political parties that wouldn't normally have a chance of being the government being in a position to have enough seats to force a coalition that would rule against mandates.

In theory, but Johnson's 80 seat majority will survive his inevitable demise.

 

I'm not an expert in US political history, but to my knowledge, limited as it is, coalitions haven't played  a role.

 

Germany, being a more genuine form of democracy, has proportional representation (ie coalitions) deeply embedded in its political culture.

 

France, despite being a francophile who studied French for 7 years, I have little knowledge of the detail of French politics.

[Credo]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously???????>

Obese people ( and smokers ) take up a LARGE part of the health budget, by getting sick and requiring major surgery, medical and cancer treatment for conditions directly caused by obesity and tobacco. Taxpayers have to fund that, so it affects us all that pay tax, and fills up hospital beds so those of us that don't eat too much bad food or smoke have to wait for our admissions.

Oh, so you do understand why vaccinations are important.  

 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously???????>

Obese people ( and smokers ) take up a LARGE part of the health budget, by getting sick and requiring major surgery, medical and cancer treatment for conditions directly caused by obesity and tobacco. Taxpayers have to fund that, so it affects us all that pay tax, and fills up hospital beds so those of us that don't eat too much bad food or smoke have to wait for our admissions.

When was the last time obese people and smokers filled up ICU beds and created conditions whereby others who needed medical intervention were denied it? There is a difference between a chronic public health problem and an acute one.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Credo said:

Oh, so you do understand why vaccinations are important.  

 

I understand why some think they are.

IMO most will be because the government is going to make it so unpleasant not to be that they will give up and get it just to be able to have a life, not because they believe in them.

I know someone that did that, despite not caring about being vaccinated.

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I understand why some think they are.

IMO most will be because the government is going to make it so unpleasant not to be that they will give up and get it just to be able to have a life, not because they believe in them.

I know someone that did that, despite not caring about being vaccinated.

So mandates work!

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

When was the last time obese people and smokers filled up ICU beds and created conditions whereby others who needed medical intervention were denied it? There is a difference between a chronic public health problem and an acute one.

The current obesity "epidemic" is a fairly new phenomenon ( I don't remember any obese people from my childhood, and Thais were not obese ( in the main ) when I first started visiting. Now there are obese people everywhere. So, I don't think anyone can say for sure how many beds will be taken by them yet, as complications of obesity take many years to show up. I expect it to be a high % but I was lucky that obese people were a rarity when I worked on the wards.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

So mandates work!

Of course they do, but IMO the government is storing up hatred and resentment for bringing them in. Wait for the next election.

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course they do, but IMO the government is storing up hatred and resentment for bringing them in. Wait for the next election.

I note that it is just your opinion but..

 

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_091521/

[placeholder]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The current obesity "epidemic" is a fairly new phenomenon ( I don't remember any obese people from my childhood, and Thais were not obese ( in the main ) when I first started visiting. Now there are obese people everywhere. So, I don't think anyone can say for sure how many beds will be taken by them yet, as complications of obesity take many years to show up. I expect it to be a high % but I was lucky that obese people were a rarity when I worked on the wards.

It may get higher but it's not going to surge the way a viral pandemic does.

[onthedarkside]

A post with unsourced and unsubstantiated COVID claims has been removed, along with ensuing replies, including off-topic comments about non-credible media outlets.

 

[Credo]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I understand why some think they are.

IMO most will be because the government is going to make it so unpleasant not to be that they will give up and get it just to be able to have a life, not because they believe in them.

I know someone that did that, despite not caring about being vaccinated.

From your posts, all I can glean is that now you seem to think it's the government that is the problem.  Previously, it was fat, diabetics that were the problem.  

 

I think the problem right now at this time is Covid.   

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, placeholder said:

It may get higher but it's not going to surge the way a viral pandemic does.

That's correct, at least till ( IMO ) over 70% of the population are obese ( and we are trying to get there, judging by the people I see around me ), but the difference between a viral pandemic and smoking/ obesity is that the first isn't self inflicted. We don't have to smoke and we don't have to eat too much, but catching a virus is much more complicated to avoid.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Credo said:

From your posts, all I can glean is that now you seem to think it's the government that is the problem.  Previously, it was fat, diabetics that were the problem.  

 

I think the problem right now at this time is Covid.   

Just because covid happened, it didn't make all the other problems in the world go away.

Actually to some of us, it isn't as large a problem as the other things going on in our lives, and to some of us it occupies very little of our attention other than having to wear a mask, occasionally.

[BritManToo]

23 hours ago, Credo said:

Oh, so you do understand why vaccinations are important.  

 

I don't believe vaccinations are important.

I generally avoid them, I only had COVID vaccinations for the reasons TBL stated.

 

However,

I do believe exercising and keeping yourself the right weight are important.

Edited December 4, 2021 by BritManToo

[Chomper Higgot]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:00 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously???????>

Obese people ( and smokers ) take up a LARGE part of the health budget, by getting sick and requiring major surgery, medical and cancer treatment for conditions directly caused by obesity and tobacco. Taxpayers have to fund that, so it affects us all that pay tax, and fills up hospital beds so those of us that don't eat too much bad food or smoke have to wait for our admissions.

You are making a false equivalence (which has been explained to you already).

 

You are also misrepresenting the ‘use of medical services/hospital’ issue.

 

Uptake of medical services by people suffering ‘life style diseases’ is a known near constant demand rate.

 

COVID outbreaks create exponential demands on health services and present the additional problem of COVID patients placing health care staff at risk of infection.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just because covid happened, it didn't make all the other problems in the world go away.

Actually to some of us, it isn't as large a problem as the other things going on in our lives, and to some of us it occupies very little of our attention other than having to wear a mask, occasionally.

There is evidence all over this forum suggesting you give COVID a little more attention than that post claims.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

47 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's correct, at least till ( IMO ) over 70% of the population are obese ( and we are trying to get there, judging by the people I see around me ), but the difference between a viral pandemic and smoking/ obesity is that the first isn't self inflicted. We don't have to smoke and we don't have to eat too much, but catching a virus is much more complicated to avoid.

Epidemiology 101, when a health problem is present across large parts of society, look for s society wide cause.

 

Nobody chooses to be fat or suffer lung diseases, heart diseases or diabetes.

 

These problems are a direct result of the Tobacco and Food Industries, both of which have used the identical misinformation and lobbying campaigns to protect their profits against the promotion of public health.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

47 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe vaccinations are important.

I generally avoid them, I only had COVID vaccinations for the reasons TBL stated.

 

However,

I do believe exercising and keeping yourself the right weight are important.

Then you are in disagreement with every credible scientist.  Vaccinations are critical to stopping this pandemic.

[Jeffr2]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/omicron-variant-puttings-huge-numbers-of-kids-under-5-years-old-in-hospital-in-south-africa

Omicron Triggers ‘Unprecedented’ COVID Surge Hitting Children Under Age 5 in South Africa

The “highly transmissible” Omicron variant of coronavirus ripping through South Africa is putting disproportionately large numbers of children under 5 years old in hospitals, a top South African government medical adviser said Friday.

 

The alarming development raises the prospect of a new global battle cycle against the virus, given that the new variant has already spread to dozens of countries. The South African scientists also said the new variant was spreading much quicker than any previous wave of the coronavirus.

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's correct, at least till ( IMO ) over 70% of the population are obese ( and we are trying to get there, judging by the people I see around me ), but the difference between a viral pandemic and smoking/ obesity is that the first isn't self inflicted. We don't have to smoke and we don't have to eat too much, but catching a virus is much more complicated to avoid.

Smokers and obese people have nothing to do with this.

I contend that your assertion is exactly 180 degrees incorrect.

Most smokers and obese people would be glad to get a shot to solve their problems.

Getting vaccinated is relatively easy, not being vaccinated is "self-inflicted".