Youtube

[TAWP]

Just to keep things in proper time sequence...the video was put up... and then the blockage began. Subsequently, other offensive videos, even more offensive, were then also put up.

Several months ago, Google agreed to remove all the offensive videos and to their credit most were, but not all, and the blockage has remained in place in response to that incomplete removal of the offensive videos.

These events have all been detailed and chronicled in other youtube threads.

Just for the record, via 'sources close to me' [but not saying it is me] I have been informed that you are incorrect.

There are 1740 'I love the KING', 'Why we love the King', and so on, videos.

You claim that there are offensive videos left - and you keep claiming it. Would you be so kind to send a PM with a link to these videos?

[jayceenik]

Just to keep things in proper time sequence...the video was put up... and then the blockage began. Subsequently, other offensive videos, even more offensive, were then also put up.

Several months ago, Google agreed to remove all the offensive videos and to their credit most were, but not all, and the blockage has remained in place in response to that incomplete removal of the offensive videos.

These events have all been detailed and chronicled in other youtube threads.

Just for the record, via 'sources close to me' [but not saying it is me] I have been informed that you are incorrect.

There are 1740 'I love the KING', 'Why we love the King', and so on, videos.

You claim that there are offensive videos left - and you keep claiming it. Would you be so kind to send a PM with a link to these videos?

A couple days ago a USA-based friend still found one such offensive clip on YouTube. Tag words "King", "Thailand". He found too a moralising "Farangs don't understand Thailand" lengthy clip, though all Farangs, I'd think, are against keeping such, offensive to the Thais, clips on YouTube and the posters could very well be Thais.

Also, YouTube was blocked a few times well before the initial official ban-causing offensive clip was posted. Each time the authorities claimed they had nothing to do with the block. Coincidentally Mr T. was YouTubing at the time.

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would disparage the King. Google/YouTube should have taken that clip out immediately after it was brought to their attention. This would have been no censorship but good taste.

[danone]

test test one two one two

missing youtube.

if a kid of those prickheads would watch youtube it'd be back since weeks.

but the honourable ministry of information and technology just forgot about that ban, it seems.

[jackspratt]

This is the message I am getting when I try to get into YouTube. Anyone tell me what it means?

ขออภัย บริษัท ทีโอที จำกัด (มหาชน)

ในฐานะขององค์กรของคนไทย

ได้ระงับการเชื่อมต่อมาที่เว็บไซต์นี้ื่

เนื่องจากมีเนื้อหา ข้อความ รูปภาพ ที่ไม่เหมาะสม

ที่ได้ส่งผลกระทบต่อจิตใจของคนไทยทั้งประเทศจนไม่อาจยอมรับได้

Generated Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:57:58 GMT by Web_Blocker (squid/2.6.STABLE5)

Cheers

jack

[Stephen Cleary]

This is the message I am getting when I try to get into YouTube. Anyone tell me what it means?

ขออภัย บริษัท ทีโอที จำกัด (มหาชน)

ในฐานะขององค์กรของคนไทย

ได้ระงับการเชื่อมต่อมาที่เว็บไซต์นี้ื่

เนื่องจากมีเนื้อหา ข้อความ รูปภาพ ที่ไม่เหมาะสม

ที่ได้ส่งผลกระทบต่อจิตใจของคนไทยทั้งประเทศจนไม่อาจยอมรับได้

Generated Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:57:58 GMT by Web_Blocker (squid/2.6.STABLE5)

Cheers

jack

Our apologies (TOT)

On behalf of the Thai people

This website has been blocked!

It has been found that some messages and pictures are unsuitable for viewing.

So, having a diverse effect upon the psychological state of Thai people 'until it is found unnaceptable'

Or something along those lines

[kratindaeng]

not back and never will be, thank buddah, why is everyone so excitable about You Tube anyway? pants...

[jackspratt]

Thanks Stephen.

TOT - pricks!

[TAWP]

Not a single PM with some actual proof of a questionable video yet.

How about it, put forward your findings or stop trying to justify the blocking?

[jayceenik]

Not a single PM with some actual proof of a questionable video yet.

How about it, put forward your findings or stop trying to justify the blocking?

Why don't you ask one of your contacts outside Thailand to check YouTube and confirm/deny that at least one offensive clip is still posted?

[laurent]

Hi All,

I confirm, Youtube.com is back on True in Bangkok, True Hispeed 1MB, no special proxy whatsoever.

Laurent

PS: it seems that it is taking some time to be back everywhere, as it is still not available at my work place, True Leased line this time.

Edited August 4, 2007 by laurent

[geronimo]

Hi All,

I confirm, Youtube.com is back on True in Bangkok, True Hispeed 1MB, no special proxy whatsoever.

Laurent

PS: it seems that it is taking some time to be back everywhere, as it is still not available at my work place, True Leased line this time.

well it's blocked on true in Minburi

[Maestro]

I have merged the new topic started by Laurent into this one.

--------------

Maestro

[TAWP]

Not a single PM with some actual proof of a questionable video yet.

How about it, put forward your findings or stop trying to justify the blocking?

Why don't you ask one of your contacts outside Thailand to check YouTube and confirm/deny that at least one offensive clip is still posted?

The clue is in the post before: 1740 clips checked, not one was offensive.

Hence the request.

[joeuk1]

Try this www.shadow.com

JB

[paulfr]

I confirm, Youtube.com is back on True in Bangkok, True Hispeed 1MB, no special proxy whatsoever.

Laurent

PS: it seems that it is taking some time to be back everywhere, as it is still not available at my work place, True Leased line this time.

Sunday morning 5 August in lower Sukhumvit with True high speed 1Mbit

Youtube is still blocked

[sriracha john]

Not a single PM with some actual proof of a questionable video yet.

How about it, put forward your findings or stop trying to justify the blocking?

with sincerest apologies for being self-focused enough to taking a weekend vacation to Rayong, there's an offensive clip at the top of the search results for the subject matter on youtube's search.

the appropriately named assddaa posted it.

Edited August 5, 2007 by sriracha john

[laurent]

I still confirm that Youtube is unblocked on the Sukhumvit area, True Super Hispeed 1MB.

FYI

Laurent

[gzu88bv]

Sorry dumb question, what line speed at least is required for Youtube?

[TAWP]

there's an offensive clip at the top of the search results for the subject matter on youtube's search.

the appropriately named assddaa posted it.

Cute - but that lead up onto other clips that could or might not be persived as inflamatory depending on how narrow one wants to argue the case of inflamatory against a person that is edited beoynd recognision, but the main problem still stands:

Should the ban stand until the world is rid of evil thoughts?

Since you are most welcome to show me how anyone can _stop_ inflamatory videos of _anyone_ showing up, even for a little while.

In the end thailand has managed to gain negative publicity and is nowhere near better off than after the first video was posted. And reposted on other sites and homepages. (But don't tell them that, or they will block http://www.*.*/ )

Added:

Found this info under a video submitted by a thai(!) user.

While Thailand YouTube is still blocked this video will remain here. I hate free speech and i want it to be banned forever! I don't know nor do i care who is the stupid bastard to create free speech

...

Edited August 5, 2007 by TAWP

[sriracha john]

The video posted by the named submitter would easily be construed as offensive to 99% (if not higher) of the Thai population I believe.

The ban, IMHO, is justified as long as similarly grossly offensive videos exist on youtube, despite them saying that they would remove all of them.

Not looking to go anywhere near as to the point where "the world is rid of evil thoughts".... just want them to follow their own guidelines for video submissions and that some sort of action is taken when the "report as offensive" button on youtube is clicked. (thaivisa is not much different in that regard except that thaivisa actually does something usually). In youtube's case, it did nothing for weeks as it milked the cash cow of publicity for all it was worth to them.

I would state that I'm against censorship... but I don't' see this as censorship issue.... to me, it's only a matter of decency and respect, something that youtube has written into it's own rules, but in this case has chosen not to follow.

---------------------

I wouldn't expect them to be instantaneously removed upon submission.... but weeks after, as many were.... that's not reasonable.

---------------------

as for the nationality of posters', I believe it's whatever the user says it is, so I wouldn't put any stock in what someone says supposedly from a "Thai user." For another example, the cited offensive video is posted supposedly by someone from belgium... but I don't put much faith in that being true or not.

Edited August 5, 2007 by sriracha john

[TAWP]

If you had watched the clip I'm talking about you would know the sumitter was thai. But that is besides the point.

I find it offensive that someone justify a ban based on what some people might find offensive. Can I then request that you or your posts are banned? And is it right of me to demand it? Would it be right of TV to follow my demand?

[sriracha john]

You are, as a member, within your rights to request the removal and/or banishment of any post or other member.

Is it right of you to demand it? I would say that is up to you to determine that, but generally speaking, yes.

If the complaint was from a solitary member, they very well might not follow your demand, depending upon on the situation. If it was from hundreds of different members, as was the case with youtube, then it's likely that person would join the 1800 or so banned members of TV.

If it was individual posts that were involved, and they were reported in those numbers, then it's also likely that the individual post would be deleted. That's something that occurs every day here.

Edited August 5, 2007 by sriracha john

[TAWP]

Actually, I think the admins here have more backbone here then you give them credit for and that they wont fall for banns merely because a person - or a large group - asks for it. A breach is a breach. A satirical attack upon a person doesn't constitute a breach of the rules of YouTube - atleast not before some people starting to expand the meaning of the rules according to their own beliefs - and as such their are in no way, morally or legally, required to remove any clips.

And that they even consider it is a shame and disgrace. Not the fact that they allow some clips to reside or haven't started to pre-scan each and every submission.

[higgy88]

Excellent debate guys, and I hope it stays this way. Let me ask this question. Can't the Thai gov't ban any videos they deem to be offensive without banning all of Youtube, and wouldn't this be the same as banning all of ThaiVisa because of comments made by one or two posters?

[jayceenik]

I still confirm that Youtube is unblocked on the Sukhumvit area, True Super Hispeed 1MB.

FYI

Laurent

Can't understand. I'm in Sukhumvit 22 with True 4MB and it is still permanently (I check often!) blocked. Are you using a no-no proxy?

[jayceenik]

Not a single PM with some actual proof of a questionable video yet.

How about it, put forward your findings or stop trying to justify the blocking?

Why don't you ask one of your contacts outside Thailand to check YouTube and confirm/deny that at least one offensive clip is still posted?

The clue is in the post before: 1740 clips checked, not one was offensive.

Hence the request.

Just got my USA friend on the phone again this Monday, August 6. He confirmed that, as we were talking, he was looking at two very, very offensive clips that are a string of pictures with very insulting write-on comments. There may be thousands of we-love-the-king clips, there are at least those two. Check again!

[higgy88]

I have very little doubt that offensive clips can be found, and I completely understand and sympathize with those who find them offensive. I have not seen any of these videos, and will not search them out simply simply because I do not want to. My choice. But here is my problem with the actions of the Thai gov't. There are 194 countries in the world (wikipedia) and Thailand is but one of them. I would say that each of these countries has its own culture, laws, different ways of looking at the world, and different ideas of what is considered offensive and what is not. If you give the government and the country of Thailand the power to have something removed from a website because they consider it to be offensive, then you must also give this power to each and every one of the other 193 countries, and this is what I have a very big problem with. Any one of the 194 different countries in the world would have the power to decided what the rest of the world can and cannot see. The smallest internationally recognized sovern country in the world is Vatican City (also wikipedia). For those who feel that Thailand has the right to decide what is offensive and what should be removed from Youtube, you must also give that same right to the Vatican, and that is really something I don't think I can live with. I personally would prefer that Youtube be banned in Thailand rather than giving Thailand, or any country, the power to decide what can and cannot be shown to the rest of the world. I would also just like to add that personally I really don't think this ban has had that much of an affect on those who really want to watch it. Thank you for letting me have my say, and yes I know that google kowtowed to China and puts money ahead of its alleged values.

[jayceenik]

I have very little doubt that offensive clips can be found, and I completely understand and sympathize with those who find them offensive. I have not seen any of these videos, and will not search them out simply simply because I do not want to. My choice. But here is my problem with the actions of the Thai gov't. There are 194 countries in the world (wikipedia) and Thailand is but one of them. I would say that each of these countries has its own culture, laws, different ways of looking at the world, and different ideas of what is considered offensive and what is not. If you give the government and the country of Thailand the power to have something removed from a website because they consider it to be offensive, then you must also give this power to each and every one of the other 193 countries, and this is what I have a very big problem with. Any one of the 194 different countries in the world would have the power to decided what the rest of the world can and cannot see. The smallest internationally recognized sovern country in the world is Vatican City (also wikipedia). For those who feel that Thailand has the right to decide what is offensive and what should be removed from Youtube, you must also give that same right to the Vatican, and that is really something I don't think I can live with. I personally would prefer that Youtube be banned in Thailand rather than giving Thailand, or any country, the power to decide what can and cannot be shown to the rest of the world. I would also just like to add that personally I really don't think this ban has had that much of an affect on those who really want to watch it. Thank you for letting me have my say, and yes I know that google kowtowed to China and puts money ahead of its alleged values.

Those crude and vulgar clips are not an expression of freedom on the net but put up by creeps who have found a sure way to keep YouTube banned in Thailand. Now, what else is there on YouTube that some don't want us to watch?

[Guest Reimar]

I can open youtube with the URL Laurent posted but not with: http://www.youtube.com, here I get the messages Server Reset!

[Guest Reimar]

May the IP is unblocked but not the DNS Name! That's two different processes!