Thai spouse claiming the pension/s of UK Husband

[Stevey]

Hi 

 

Apologies if this has been covered. A UK Friend of mine formally of HuaHin had died recently and leaves his wife who has same Surname to him. She is struggling to get through the paperwork and is in severe financial straits now.

 

He was over 70 and had an Army pension and a UK old-age pension. On the waiting some paperwork from her but in the meantime I’ll be interested in anyone maybe putting some advice my way and people to contact in Thailand that could ease the journey

 

cheers

 

Steve

[BritManToo]

She gets nothing from the UK state pension.

She might get something from the army pension.

[foreverlomsak]

Don't know the situation re the Army pension but unless she has a NI number and credits in her own right I doubt very much if she will get anything from DWP

[Will B Good]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pensions-for-life-for-surviving-spouses-and-civil-partners-of-personnel

 

From 1 April 2015 all survivors’ pensions awarded to armed forces spouses and civil partners will be for life.

Those already in receipt of a survivor’s pension will be entitled to keep their pension for life if they decide to remarry, cohabit or form a civil partnership after this date.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Will B Good

[Tim16]

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/expat/article-6257577/Can-foreign-wife-inherit-pensions.html

[Will B Good]

20 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Don't know the situation re the Army pension but unless she has a NI number and credits in her own right I doubt very much if she will get anything from DWP

Agree....

 

The new state pension, which started from April 2016, is based on an individual’s national insurance history over their working life, so a spouse cannot inherit the pension because it is not related to them.

 

[Stevey]

9 minutes ago, Tim16 said:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/expat/article-6257577/Can-foreign-wife-inherit-pensions.html

“If you already retired before April 2016 then any state pension rights you have built up – including those your wife might be allowed to inherit – should be protected”

 

This guy retired well before 2016 does this mean she has an entitlement do you think ? 

[davidhen]

I have some personal, albeit indirect, experience in this matter --- but only regarding the UK pension part.

 

My Thai girlfriend lost her UK husband to cancer back in 2015. She only turned 66yrs of age in May this year, and was not eligible to receive anything before then, although application can be made (I think) up to 4 months prior to the eligibility date.

I compiled the initial emails for her ( to the OVERSEAS BRANCH of DWP pensions, which can be found on the HMRC website) and, after completing online forms, downloaded and printed them, before sending them to, strangely enough, somewhere in the UK midlands, which I think must be where all of the overseas applications are dealt with.

My friend was married to her UK husband for 28 years and actually lived in England with him for 10 of those years. She was herself, employed for some time in the UK but not long enough to satisfy the 10-year minimum national insurance contributions requirement. So, although she (I) divulged her UK employment details on the forms, I think it was important to stress that she was making the application based on her LATE HUSBAND'S N.I. contributions. 

The good news is that yes, one can be eligible to receive (part of) a UK (DWP) pension based on the widow's deceased husband's N.I. contributions.

Alas, the bad news for my girlfriend is that she has only been awarded about THB 1,000 per month. I think that the reason for this is that her late husband did a lot of overseas work and, consequently he probably didn't have all that many year's N.I. contributions himself.

Also, whilst the paltry sum is "better than a kick up the rear", it will almost certainly never be annually uprated, as is the case with direct DWP pension recipients who reside in Thailand. 

 

Having just re-read some other posts, I should mention that, prior to her husband's death, he had already been receiving his state pension for some years, long before April 2016, and so, would have been a recipient of the "old" pension --- not the "new."

 

Good luck.

David. 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by davidhen
Additional information.

[Stevey]

3 hours ago, Stevey said:

“If you already retired before April 2016 then any state pension rights you have built up – including those your wife might be allowed to inherit – should be protected”

 

This guy retired well before 2016 does this mean she has an entitlement do you think ? 

Actually on reflection I mean the retiree in question retired from the Army 20 or more years ago but his old age pension kicked in around 2016, I remember him talking about he’d just got it. Am I understanding correctly that the widow is entitled to a percentage of NI contributions if he had been in receipt of ‘The old pension’ prior to April 2016 even if for a short period ? 

[davidhen]

21 hours ago, Stevey said:

Actually on reflection I mean the retiree in question retired from the Army 20 or more years ago but his old age pension kicked in around 2016, I remember him talking about he’d just got it. Am I understanding correctly that the widow is entitled to a percentage of NI contributions if he had been in receipt of ‘The old pension’ prior to April 2016 even if for a short period ? 

The short answer is, probably, but the magic cut-off date is 5th April 2016. Anyone who qualifies to receive DWP pension AFTER this date, will, or would have been, a recipient of the NEW pension. As such, people built up (or not) rights to their own individual pension, and would be highly unlikely to be able to pass on such rights to any surviving spouse. 

[Stevey]

6 hours ago, davidhen said:

The short answer is, probably, but the magic cut-off date is 5th April 2016. Anyone who qualifies to receive DWP pension AFTER this date, will, or would have been, a recipient of the NEW pension. As such, people built up (or not) rights to their own individual pension, and would be highly unlikely to be able to pass on such rights to any surviving spouse. 

Hi Thanks for the reply’s. 
 

Looks like Our man was right on the Cusp of 2016 I think he was just out of the old pension though. He had an Army pension and from what I’m reading she will be entitled to it. A paper trail to follow. I will post an update as the process proceeds. 

[Expat68]

There is a one off bereavement payment, this replaced the widow's pension, if she never resided in the UK or does not have a NI number she may not get but worth asking, not sure exact amount, £2500 possibly

[Chris.B]

Inheriting Additional State Pension

https://www.gov.uk/additional-state-pension/inheriting

 

[Chris.B]

You need to know his exact date of birth in order to determine if he was receiving the old state pension or the new state pension.

 

Was it before 6 April 2016 or after?

 

 

[Raindancer]

@Stevey

Pm sent with full details.

[Burma Bill]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:44 PM, Stevey said:

 maybe putting some advice my way

Hi Stevey, 

 

I note other AN members have kindly contributed information about his State Pension (OAP) which became invalid on his death. However from my experience in dealing with a similar situation, I doubt whether there will be a Military pension unless his spouse is listed as being legally married to him and not excluded from paperwork. Back in 2016, a Royal British Legion pal of mine passed away aged 80 years. After a complete mess up of trying to sort out pensions for his spouse by a non-UK pal, I was eventually asked (as a UK Police Service pensioner) to sort out the mass of paperwork on his wife's behalf. It took 2 years to complete, mainly due to the many forms I had to complete again, get signed and then resent by airmail to the UK. The Army Pension Service eventually replied stating they had no record of him being married so this pension was terminated. It was a very small pension from military service many years earlier. However his spouse was entitled to a State Pension as he passed away 2 weeks before the cut off date of April 6th 2016. She still gets UK state pension to this very day - a lucky Thai lady!! He never had a private pension scheme. I wish you good luck and success, but please bear in mind it could be a lengthy and frustrating project. 

[theoldgit]

@SteveyYou might want to contact the RBL here in Thailand, they have a tremendous support network and a number of caseworkers here, I'm sure they'll be able to offer some meaningful advice.

[DaveCW]

Im not sure - But I may have read somewhere (on this forum) about SSAFA (Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmens Families Association) representation here in Thailand - If so, then getting a contact there should help - failing that, then there is the usual .gov (veterans UK) website Armed forces pensions - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) or if your up to it, call the Army personnel Centre direct... Army Personnel Centre -  Kentigern House 65 Brown St, Glasgow G2 8E 0141 248 7890

[DaveCW]

Or as someone noted it above it may have been the RBL i remember reading about ...

[Stevey]

On 11/21/2021 at 4:03 PM, Burma Bill said:

Hi Stevey, 

 

I note other AN members have kindly contributed information about his State Pension (OAP) which became invalid on his death. However from my experience in dealing with a similar situation, I doubt whether there will be a Military pension unless his spouse is listed as being legally married to him and not excluded from paperwork. Back in 2016, a Royal British Legion pal of mine passed away aged 80 years. After a complete mess up of trying to sort out pensions for his spouse by a non-UK pal, I was eventually asked (as a UK Police Service pensioner) to sort out the mass of paperwork on his wife's behalf. It took 2 years to complete, mainly due to the many forms I had to complete again, get signed and then resent by airmail to the UK. The Army Pension Service eventually replied stating they had no record of him being married so this pension was terminated. It was a very small pension from military service many years earlier. However his spouse was entitled to a State Pension as he passed away 2 weeks before the cut off date of April 6th 2016. She still gets UK state pension to this very day - a lucky Thai lady!! He never had a private pension scheme. I wish you good luck and success, but please bear in mind it could be a lengthy and frustrating project. 

Thanks for the input and well done on get the lady in question her just deserves. 

[Stevey]

On 11/21/2021 at 6:54 PM, theoldgit said:

@SteveyYou might want to contact the RBL here in Thailand, they have a tremendous support network and a number of caseworkers here, I'm sure they'll be able to offer some meaningful advice.

Fantastic info ????Thanks for that.