Thai Higher-ups Want To Cull Out Undesirables -

[wolfmanjack]

If 1.5 million baht would be the thing to come......I doubt it,cause not long ago they doubled it allready.

Would not suprise me though.So if this really is happening,not that I want to go further ,cause still a rumour I guess,then the people with the old rules will be grandfathered?I reckon that a lot,I mean a lot of people considering a retirement visa should apply soon,if not there retirement plan could go totally wrong.

For now I keep it as a rumour.

The married visa was 200,000 then doubled to 400,000 and now changed to 40,000 per month (480,000). Who knows what these guys are doing. It used to be support of a thai national which meant you could put 200k/400k in the bank and get on on your child. Now you can't get a visa on your child unless you are 50. And the reason given was they did not want a bunch of people having children just to get a visa ? What did they do by making it no financial requirement for a 50+ year old with a kid ? A man that is 50+can still make babies. Try to make sense out of the current situation !!!!!!!!

50+ with no family -----------800,000 50+ with 1 child ----------------- 0

Make sense to any one ????Who knows what these loonies are going to do next ?

[tijnebijn]

If 1.5 million baht would be the thing to come......I doubt it,cause not long ago they doubled it allready.

Would not suprise me though.So if this really is happening,not that I want to go further ,cause still a rumour I guess,then the people with the old rules will be grandfathered?I reckon that a lot,I mean a lot of people considering a retirement visa should apply soon,if not there retirement plan could go totally wrong.

For now I keep it as a rumour.

The married visa was 200,000 then doubled to 400,000 and now changed to 40,000 per month (480,000). Who knows what these guys are doing. It used to be support of a thai national which meant you could put 200k/400k in the bank and get on on your child. Now you can't get a visa on your child unless you are 50. And the reason given was they did not want a bunch of people having children just to get a visa ? What did they do by making it no financial requirement for a 50+ year old with a kid ? A man that is 50+can still make babies. Try to make sense out of the current situation !!!!!!!!

50+ with no family -----------800,000 50+ with 1 child ----------------- 0

Make sense to any one ????Who knows what these loonies are going to do next ?

No it does not make sense.And if someone has a child so what?How they can prove someone has it to make a visa?Should be in court to prove that.And the children are thai nationals,they have their rights right?

It is all nonsense if you ask me,the reasons given .I will tell you that people who do not agree with this do not have children in Thailand.When you do have children,anywhere,you will do everything to stay with them.I think the most people,and many posters are very rightwing orientated,that explains all don't you think?

[wolfmanjack]

If 1.5 million baht would be the thing to come......I doubt it,cause not long ago they doubled it allready.

Would not suprise me though.So if this really is happening,not that I want to go further ,cause still a rumour I guess,then the people with the old rules will be grandfathered?I reckon that a lot,I mean a lot of people considering a retirement visa should apply soon,if not there retirement plan could go totally wrong.

For now I keep it as a rumour.

The married visa was 200,000 then doubled to 400,000 and now changed to 40,000 per month (480,000). Who knows what these guys are doing. It used to be support of a thai national which meant you could put 200k/400k in the bank and get on on your child. Now you can't get a visa on your child unless you are 50. And the reason given was they did not want a bunch of people having children just to get a visa ? What did they do by making it no financial requirement for a 50+ year old with a kid ? A man that is 50+can still make babies. Try to make sense out of the current situation !!!!!!!!

50+ with no family -----------800,000 50+ with 1 child ----------------- 0

Make sense to any one ????Who knows what these loonies are going to do next ?

No it does not make sense.And if someone has a child so what?How they can prove someone has it to make a visa?Should be in court to prove that.And the children are thai nationals,they have their rights right?

It is all nonsense if you ask me,the reasons given .I will tell you that people who do not agree with this do not have children in Thailand.When you do have children,anywhere,you will do everything to stay with them.I think the most people,and many posters are very rightwing orientated,that explains all don't you think?

I get that impression too.

[yaketyak]

Thailand is a country heavily dependant on tourism. It needs a big inflow of foreign money just to maintain the status quo . Without this foreign tourism and investment the country would just become a backwater .

Given this , and the Thais legendary love of money and record of corruption, why does the government care who comes into the country as long as they have money.? If they want to keep the country at the top of the tourist lists , why not just let everyone in , for any amount of time , as long as they show they can afford it? There could be a mandatory 6 monthly visit to immigration to show funds and get a reneval stamp.

This way they will get rid of the deadbeats who have nothing and thus contribute nothing monetarily, and attract and keep those who do contribute monetarily.

I realise there are other considerations that us westerners can think of , but if the Thai government just wants money , they should ignore international pressure and let in who it wants to .

[JimsKnight]

If 1.5 million baht would be the thing to come......I doubt it,cause not long ago they doubled it allready.

Would not suprise me though.So if this really is happening,not that I want to go further ,cause still a rumour I guess,then the people with the old rules will be grandfathered?I reckon that a lot,I mean a lot of people considering a retirement visa should apply soon,if not there retirement plan could go totally wrong.

For now I keep it as a rumour.

The married visa was 200,000 then doubled to 400,000 and now changed to 40,000 per month (480,000). Who knows what these guys are doing. It used to be support of a thai national which meant you could put 200k/400k in the bank and get on on your child. Now you can't get a visa on your child unless you are 50. And the reason given was they did not want a bunch of people having children just to get a visa ? What did they do by making it no financial requirement for a 50+ year old with a kid ? A man that is 50+can still make babies. Try to make sense out of the current situation !!!!!!!!

50+ with no family -----------800,000 50+ with 1 child ----------------- 0

Make sense to any one ????Who knows what these loonies are going to do next ?

No it does not make sense.And if someone has a child so what?How they can prove someone has it to make a visa?Should be in court to prove that.And the children are thai nationals,they have their rights right?

It is all nonsense if you ask me,the reasons given .I will tell you that people who do not agree with this do not have children in Thailand.When you do have children,anywhere,you will do everything to stay with them.I think the most people,and many posters are very rightwing orientated,that explains all don't you think?

I get that impression too.

I think the next set of visa rules 'they' bring in will be the sign of whether the writtings on the wall or we can all relax and carry on under more chilled out rules.

Speaking of chilled out visa rules, I was checking the visa rules for Serbia last year (which is still a non-EU country), you can go and reside there for six months, not have to show anything more than a passport. To renew the visa, just make a border run! If only Thailand was like that (but with some effective, but sensible visa rules for the honest farang).

I've always felt the even wingers (center ground mindset) were the majority and definative left and right wing folk were in the minority.

[TakingAVacation]

Thailand is a country heavily dependant on tourism. It needs a big inflow of foreign money just to maintain the status quo...

Wrong.

Tourism is only 6% of GDP. Exports of rice and other commodities make up the bulk.

(Say, are you new here in Thailand, or yet another wishful pretender posting from his home country?)

[TakingAVacation]

My 2¢...

I don't think it's so much of a "culling out of undesireables" as you say, as it is of protectionism. This is evidenced mainly with their recent changes to the business rules for foreigners, changes that have solidified their status as the absolute WORST country for new investment in all of Asia (as reported by the Japanese, who seem to understand business investment pretty well, thank you).

But, heck, I'm just a perennial tourist here, too, like so many others, looking at Thailand extensively as a possible retirement location. What's wrong with that? Some people seem to think it's a crime these days.

But, I get the message, tho. It's like what I posted in another thread regarding Thailand's current increasingly unfriendly immigration policy. That is, Thailand is fast becoming like a typical Vegas casino: they just want you to show up, drop your money, and LEAVE. And forget about trying to compete with them.

Don't loiter too long, either...

[Prakanong]

I think the core reason for the reforms, was to clamp down on the ability of undesirables - read terrorists - to basically come and stay in Thailand indefinetly. Hambali was a huge wake up call to the lax system of immigration governance. Whatever you say about transperency and democracy here, the last thing the Thai goverment wants is their country to be a haven or easy hiding ground for terrorrists and other criminals. The geopolitical situation in SE Asia has changed...Indonesia and the relative instability there is a huge concern to all its neighbours.

I think the second reason was to formalise the system some more. Thailand had perpetual visa runners who while not breaking the law, were definetly undermining the spirit of the law. For the most part, any nation needs to know who is within its borders and for what reason - especially long termers. Visa running meant that a significant minority of people were basically out of sight of the Thai govenment. In a country where everyone has an ID card and a permanent house registration, and any legitimate long term stayer has to report every 90 days, under the radar visa runners were clearly unacceptable.

EVERY level of Visa and/or VOA registers you with the Thai computer system as in the country. The immigration white card number is attached to your passport number and Imm. knows of your presence in the country, even if you do infinite 30-day exemptions. Is there any time you can check in/check out without a valid passport and an immigration card filled out?

Just addressing this one point. If you entered the country at a border, rather than swim in, they know you are here, if they care to run a report.

You mean putting down that you stay at the XYZ hotel on the first night is sufficient for the purposes of knowing who is staying where for the next 29 days? For me, I'm not so sure.

I've said it before, I'd actually like to see Thailand issue temporary ID cards for long term residents in the same way HK or Singapore does for work permit holders. Thailand actually does a similar thing already for Burmese migrant workers. It it would be useful for a number of reasons, but especially for formalising peoples stay and bringing them into the system more effectively - eg opening bank accounts, paying bills etc etc.

So would I.

The Employment Pass system is quite good in Singapore and the WP and EP cards are graded accroding to job and salary level - some people attain the salary required for a EP 1 card later but never get the higher level card - dunno why.

PR is becoming easier to attain and it can depend on job title, industry etc - some of our guys are getting it after 3 months.

My boss asked me this week why I was not going for it - she then challenged me to give one reason.

I said because my kids would have to do national service.

This brought howls of laughter as I do not have any kids ;-)

[chuchok]

The Employment Pass system is quite good in Singapore and the WP and EP cards are graded accroding to job and salary level - some people attain the salary required for a EP 1 card later but never get the higher level card - dunno why.

PR is becoming easier to attain and it can depend on job title, industry etc - some of our guys are getting it after 3 months.

My boss asked me this week why I was not going for it - she then challenged me to give one reason.

I said because my kids would have to do national service.

This brought howls of laughter as I do not have any kids ;-)

brilliant.Almost spat my beer out at that one...

[Phil Conners]

Blah blah blah. Thailand has to realize this is the global world, they do not have the leverage to survive as an isolated island in this world. The sooner the better.

[soundman]

Wrong.

Tourism is only 6% of GDP. Exports of rice and other commodities make up the bulk.

(Say, are you new here in Thailand, or yet another wishful pretender posting from his home country?)

6% of GDP is still a lot of money in any language.... On a rough calculation that would be about 400 Billion Baht or a little under 10 Billion Dollars.

Not a market that I'd want to piss off.

Soundman.

[samran]

Wrong.

Tourism is only 6% of GDP. Exports of rice and other commodities make up the bulk.

(Say, are you new here in Thailand, or yet another wishful pretender posting from his home country?)

6% of GDP is still a lot of money in any language.... On a rough calculation that would be about 400 Billion Baht or a little under 10 Billion Dollars.

Not a market that I'd want to piss off.

Soundman.

I don't see how they have. They haven't restricted countries who are eligible for 30- entry. 60-day tourist visas are still available.

The majoirty of that 6% of GDP (ie 5.99%) would be from legitimate tourists here on an average 12 day holiday.

The latest changes do not affect them one iota.

Amazing the low opinion many people have of policy makers they've never met.

[vermin on arrival]

I'm confused. It happens sometimes.

What, exactly, is wrong with the proposition that - to use the OPs own words - the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'.

Sounds like exactly the right thing to do. What should they be doing - welcoming undesirables with a red carpet?

Does anyone else see the delicious irony in a poster calling himself 'vermin on arrival' complaining about immigration policies?

The issue though is that they are not really culling out the undesirables. It is an excuse for tossing out foreigners.

As for my tag, it's a joke buddy

[Prakanong]

The Employment Pass system is quite good in Singapore and the WP and EP cards are graded accroding to job and salary level - some people attain the salary required for a EP 1 card later but never get the higher level card - dunno why.

PR is becoming easier to attain and it can depend on job title, industry etc - some of our guys are getting it after 3 months.

My boss asked me this week why I was not going for it - she then challenged me to give one reason.

I said because my kids would have to do national service.

This brought howls of laughter as I do not have any kids ;-)

brilliant.Almost spat my beer out at that one...

I took the opportunity to skulk out of her office ;-)

I know the CPF deal is a good thing and she has enough for her retirement in the PI after only a few years but I do not have a plan after Sept 2008 yet as to where I might be next - nowhere to go in this region in my present division without a complete change of course - its not ruled out though

[Iamemjay]

I've just (seemingly) achieved the 12 month extension to my O visa on the basis of being married to a Thai national - I don't understand talk of a change from the 400K baht to 40k a month - I was previously refused the visa because I did not have them BOTH - this is despite previous Dept of Immigration assurances that I met all the requirements and would have no trouble. I say "seemingly" because they have inserted a 2 month delay factor while they send all the paperwork to BKK for final approval. But this is just nuisance value, not the guts of my question.

I live in the far north. The head of the local immigration office is now onto my case - from what my Thai wife has said, I seem to be under their "cut out the undesirables" scrutiny. He has visited my neighbours, asking a range of questions about me. Then he said he wanted to come and interview me in our home. He refused any time other than an evening appointment (it was made clear to us by an underling that we should supply whiskey.)... but he never showed.

We then received a phonecall from him requesting that I urgently come back to the immigration office because he had some more questions. This took an hour, during which he only asked for only one piece of information that he did not already have written down - my parents' names. He in fact had already completed a proforma by hand, but made us sit there while he, in between scores of interruptions, mainly instituted by himself, completed the same form by use of a typewriter.

He has now made two more phonecalls to set up the evening interview, but again he has been a no-show.

I have to report back to the office on July 11 to receive the confirmation of my visa extension which he keeps reassuring me is only a formality - it has already been approved. The underling whispered to my wife that we would need to bring whiskey on that occasion to say "thankyou" to him.

I have no criminal record or any contact with the police either here or in my home country (Australia). I am a retired university academic, having worked both in Australia and for two extended terms in different universities in Chiangmai. I have had a number of B visas prior to my current O visa. I have followed the immigration and marriage rules religiously and sought advice from them wherever there has been doubt. In summary I see no reason for suspicion on their part as to my character.

What I don't know is whether this is just a case of the "new rules" being enforced or, alternatively, whether it's a power-crazed up-country petty bureaucrat trying to wring as much perverse satisfaction out of having a Western farang being subject to him (or a combination of both). (The main activities of this office is catching and deporting illegal immigrants from Myanmar - they don't get many Westerners here.)

Any helpful comments?

[samran]

I've just (seemingly) achieved the 12 month extension to my O visa on the basis of being married to a Thai national - I don't understand talk of a change from the 400K baht to 40k a month - I was previously refused the visa because I did not have them BOTH - this is despite previous Dept of Immigration assurances that I met all the requirements and would have no trouble. I say "seemingly" because they have inserted a 2 month delay factor while they send all the paperwork to BKK for final approval. But this is just nuisance value, not the guts of my question.

I live in the far north. The head of the local immigration office is now onto my case - from what my Thai wife has said, I seem to be under their "cut out the undesirables" scrutiny. He has visited my neighbours, asking a range of questions about me. Then he said he wanted to come and interview me in our home. He refused any time other than an evening appointment (it was made clear to us by an underling that we should supply whiskey.)... but he never showed.

We then received a phonecall from him requesting that I urgently come back to the immigration office because he had some more questions. This took an hour, during which he only asked for only one piece of information that he did not already have written down - my parents' names. He in fact had already completed a proforma by hand, but made us sit there while he, in between scores of interruptions, mainly instituted by himself, completed the same form by use of a typewriter.

He has now made two more phonecalls to set up the evening interview, but again he has been a no-show.

I have to report back to the office on July 11 to receive the confirmation of my visa extension which he keeps reassuring me is only a formality - it has already been approved. The underling whispered to my wife that we would need to bring whiskey on that occasion to say "thankyou" to him.

I have no criminal record or any contact with the police either here or in my home country (Australia). I am a retired university academic, having worked both in Australia and for two extended terms in different universities in Chiangmai. I have had a number of B visas prior to my current O visa. I have followed the immigration and marriage rules religiously and sought advice from them wherever there has been doubt. In summary I see no reason for suspicion on their part as to my character.

What I don't know is whether this is just a case of the "new rules" being enforced or, alternatively, whether it's a power-crazed up-country petty bureaucrat trying to wring as much perverse satisfaction out of having a Western farang being subject to him (or a combination of both). (The main activities of this office is catching and deporting illegal immigrants from Myanmar - they don't get many Westerners here.)

Any helpful comments?

welcome to the world of Thai bureaucracy. Fairly typical I'm afraid.

The under consideration thing is normal. We live in BKK and my wifes visa, while extended every year always goes a one month 'under consideration' stamp, which means it goes to the bottom of a big pile of other applications.

While we have never been visited, quite a few reports on the site have shown that immigration has been proactive in making sure that people are actually married. I suspect they come across quite a few sham ones. Nothing to worry about if you are legit.

As for the bottle of whiskey...up to you, but I wouldn't give it. He is trying it on, and if you give in now then he'll hit you up for more and more at a later point.

[the gent]

Informed debate about anything in Thailand, it seems, is oxymoronic and in the absence of a coherent policy on any issue of importance it is likely that nothing will change in this silly country except by accident.

Generally, a democratic government gathers data and in the light of that determines policy which strikes a balance between competing needs taking into account economic betterment, national security and obligations under the rule of law both domestic and international.

Just what are the facts available to the Thai when they consider their immigration policies? I haven't a clue and nor I suspect do they. But in truth it probably doesn't matter a row of beans because no farang gets anything meaningful from the Thai government by maintaining a residence, legal or otherwise. Not a bad deal for the Thai but that still doesn't stop them from leaping on their hobby horse of " undesirables " when it suits their nationalistic agenda.

Mostly, one gets what one pays for here but really it is only a lease and one can never own anything, least of all peace of mind.

All part of its uniqueness and who in truth would have it any different? After all, nothing matters very much and very little matters at all save the thinking it so.

Edited June 7, 2007 by the gent

[ThaiGoon]

I don't think it's so much of a "culling out of undesireables" as you say, as it is of protectionism. This is evidenced mainly with their recent changes to the business rules for foreigners, changes that have solidified their status as the absolute WORST country for new investment in all of Asia (as reported by the Japanese, who seem to understand business investment pretty well, thank you).

This is a load of bullcrap. The last report by the Japanese Chamber of Commerce (not sure if this is their exact name, but anyway) concluded that Thailand is their second favourite investment destination after China and ahead of Vietnam and India. I can find the article again and post it here if you want.

What a load of shit.

Edited June 7, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[ThaiGoon]

One piece of news I found so far:

http://www.asianjournal.com/?c=189&a=20127

China ranked highest in all areas of business expansion such as sales operations and production, followed by Thailand.

The survey was done between November and December last year. JETRO is a Japanese government-related organization that promotes trade and investment between Japan and the rest of the world. It gathers commercial intelligence, conducts market research and performs public relations services for Japanese industries worldwide.

[keenok]

Goal posts change - and that is a soveriegn right of any country to do that...whether we like it or not. Nations do so to protect their national interests, and their national interests don't necessarily align with what what is ones personal interests.

I think, to be pefectly fair to people here, from what I see the 90/180 day rule has been applied haphazardly, with little consistency...at least in the intial phase. When goal posts change, the RTG isn't exactly the best manager of disemination of information, nor of consisent application.

On the other side of the coin, I also think that people are unfairly thinking that the change of rules is somehow designed to deter farangs here. I think it is grossly unfair, uninformed and somewhat egotistical to think that the RTG is somehow targeting the poor little white man. It simply isn't.

I think the core reason for the reforms, was to clamp down on the ability of undesirables - read terrorists - to basically come and stay in Thailand indefinetly. Hambali was a huge wake up call to the lax system of immigration governance. Whatever you say about transperency and democracy here, the last thing the Thai goverment wants is their country to be a haven or easy hiding ground for terrorrists and other criminals. The geopolitical situation in SE Asia has changed...Indonesia and the relative instability there is a huge concern to all its neighbours.

I think the second reason was to formalise the system some more. Thailand had perpetual visa runners who while not breaking the law, were definetly undermining the spirit of the law. For the most part, any nation needs to know who is within its borders and for what reason - especially long termers. Visa running meant that a significant minority of people were basically out of sight of the Thai govenment. In a country where everyone has an ID card and a permanent house registration, and any legitimate long term stayer has to report every 90 days, under the radar visa runners were clearly unacceptable.

These restrictions forced people who wanted to be here into making a choice. They either had to leave, or make Thailand their permanent home under a number of categories, whether it be Work Permits, Business ownership, Spousal stay, retirement, or guardian of a Thai national. In otherwords, you were out if you didn't have a family link to thailand, or you weren't prepared to regularise yourself in the Thai economy (by not just spending money, but being proactively creating value to the Thai economy - and paying tax). As far as I can see, this is the standard that most governments hold, espeically governemnts in countries most of us hail from.

But hold on you say....the Thai government is splitting up families? Really? How?

As far as I can see, especially on the family front, laws were RELAXED to allow easier terms of stay, especially for foreign male spouses married to Thai's. How is that you ask? Well for starters, instead of the foreign male having to earn 40K per month, the burden has been spread so that it applies to husband/wife combined income.

How unfair you might protest! What right does Thailand have to tell me that I MUST be able to support my family??!!?? Well in fact it has every right. And if any of you find yoursleves in the position of shipping your family back home to your own countries, you can be very sure that your home government is going to require that YOU (not your wife) provide evidence that you are able to support your family - usually without recourse to public funds/welfare.

But you doth protest more! 40,000 baht? Why 40,000 baht ($1300, 900 Euros, 600 pounds). A MONTH? Just a personal opinion, but if you going to have a life here, save for a retirement, send your kids to a half way decent school so they get a good start in life, pay for medical insurance etc etc...then 40,000 baht is a ridiclously low amount per month to support a family. But that is a personal opinion.

But dammit you say, I'm not married...how can I stay? Well, get a job in a capcity where you can contribute to the economy to help in grow. I know plenty of people who come here and do well for themselves, but they get out there and hunt around and do wind up with jobs. Unlike other countries, Thailand doesn't restrict the overall numbers of work permits issued. But, please, have a skill which is useful.

But I work for myself! Well that is fine too, start a business, provide some employment to Thai's...and off you go. It is possible, and there are thousands of farangs here successfully doing the same thing.

Thailand isn't in the business (anymore) of letting people just come and set up shop...especially the ones who aren't wanting to formalise their stay. But, if you are likely to be economically productive, or show that you have the basic capcity to support your family, then I don't think the rules are too unfair at all.

an excellent post which hits the nail on the head.

[Naam]

But in truth it probably doesn't matter a row of beans because no farang gets anything meaningful from the Thai government by maintaining a residence, legal or otherwise. Not a bad deal for the Thai...

i (not so) humbly beg to differ Sir. for me it is meaningful² NOT to pay income tax in excess of one hundred thousand US-dollars every year which the finance minister of my home country would demand if i lived there. i.e. not a bad deal for me.

[brahmburgers]

I'm confused. It happens sometimes.

What, exactly, is wrong with the proposition that - to use the OPs own words - the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'.

Sounds like exactly the right thing to do. What should they be doing - welcoming undesirables with a red carpet?

Does anyone else see the delicious irony in a poster calling himself 'vermin on arrival' complaining about immigration policies?

yes, as the OP, I did say "the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'." but that was a lead-in to the resolution of the sentence which said, in effect, the policy winds up culling many many decent people and those that contribute positively to Thailand.

By saying "the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'." is not a judgement statement on its own. I agree that dissuading peodophiles and other low-lifers from residing here is good. Now, if Thailand ever started to seriously cull out the same within their own ranks, there'd be a lot less Thais in Thailand - but that's another story. Meanwhile, a nightclub owning Thai (massage parlours were his 'cover') can hire a crew of thugs to go to downtown BKK and competely destroy hundreds of vendors' businesses in one night, and that same guy is untouchable by the cops. Or another guy can hack off a girl's arm (from being offended) and is apparently off scott-free (whatever happened with him and his cop buddies?). A non-smoking farang

is accused of dropping a cig butt on a sidewalk (in filthy Bangkok) and forced to pay a 2,000 baht fine. Perhaps we need to redefine 'undesirables.'

[ThaiGoon]

A non-smoking farang

is accused of dropping a cig butt on a sidewalk (in filthy Bangkok) and forced to pay a 2,000 baht fine. Perhaps we need to redefine 'undesirables.'

When I went home four or five years ago, unaware of stricter enforcement of that perticular rule, I got fined for 2000 Baht for spitting in public too (I had an alergy at the time and didn't have tissue with me.) And I'm Thai.

They are not targetting you. Don't act as if everything in Thailand has to revolve around you.

And I don't understand why you had to mention Thai criminals. Does your own home country not have criminals? And does that mean that every country has to welcome foreign criminals and scums because they already ones of their own? What an absurd logic.

By the way, Bangkok will obviously be much less filthy when there are less and less undesirable foreign "visitors" there.

[JR Texas]

I'm confused. It happens sometimes.

What, exactly, is wrong with the proposition that - to use the OPs own words - the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'.

Sounds like exactly the right thing to do. What should they be doing - welcoming undesirables with a red carpet?

Does anyone else see the delicious irony in a poster calling himself 'vermin on arrival' complaining about immigration policies?

yes, as the OP, I did say "the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'." but that was a lead-in to the resolution of the sentence which said, in effect, the policy winds up culling many many decent people and those that contribute positively to Thailand.

By saying "the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'." is not a judgement statement on its own. I agree that dissuading peodophiles and other low-lifers from residing here is good. Now, if Thailand ever started to seriously cull out the same within their own ranks, there'd be a lot less Thais in Thailand - but that's another story. Meanwhile, a nightclub owning Thai (massage parlours were his 'cover') can hire a crew of thugs to go to downtown BKK and competely destroy hundreds of vendors' businesses in one night, and that same guy is untouchable by the cops. Or another guy can hack off a girl's arm (from being offended) and is apparently off scott-free (whatever happened with him and his cop buddies?). A non-smoking farang

is accused of dropping a cig butt on a sidewalk (in filthy Bangkok) and forced to pay a 2,000 baht fine. Perhaps we need to redefine 'undesirables.'

JR Texas: The following has been suggested: "Perhaps we need to redefine undesirables."

OK....I will take a stab at it:

Undesirable farang:

1) Any farang that believes FOX News is actually news

2) Any farang that is still wearing an "I love Nixon/Reagan" button

3) Any farang that thinks TOXIN is good for the body, mind and economy

4) Any farang that is in love with Rush Limbaugh

5) Any grandfathered-in farang that does not have the ability to project what life would be like for him if he had to meet the current visa rules and regulations,

6) Any farang whose sole purpose in life is to cause real estate rates to go up

7) Any farang that would dare make fun of the Great Nation of Texas

8) Any farang that does not love smoked BBQ and Tex-Mex Mexican food

There.......that should clean out most of the really bad people! :D

[wolfmanjack]

A non-smoking farang

is accused of dropping a cig butt on a sidewalk (in filthy Bangkok) and forced to pay a 2,000 baht fine. Perhaps we need to redefine 'undesirables.'

When I went home four or five years ago, unaware of stricter enforcement of that perticular rule, I got fined for 2000 Baht for spitting in public too (I had an alergy at the time and didn't have tissue with me.) And I'm Thai.

They are not targetting you. Don't act as if everything in Thailand has to revolve around you.

And I don't understand why you had to mention Thai criminals. Does your own home country not have criminals? And does that mean that every country has to welcome foreign criminals and scums because they already ones of their own? What an absurd logic.

By the way, Bangkok will obviously be much less filthy when there are less and less undesirable foreign "visitors" there.

I guess you missed the part about him being a non smoker fined for throwing a cigarette butt (that he did not have since he was a non smoker) on the ground.

I do not think any of us complain about getting fined for something that we did wrong but getting hit with a 2,000 baht fine for something you did not do pisses a person off.

[calibanjr.]

I'm confused. It happens sometimes.

What, exactly, is wrong with the proposition that - to use the OPs own words - the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'.

Sounds like exactly the right thing to do. What should they be doing - welcoming undesirables with a red carpet?

Does anyone else see the delicious irony in a poster calling himself 'vermin on arrival' complaining about immigration policies?

yes, as the OP, I did say "the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'." but that was a lead-in to the resolution of the sentence which said, in effect, the policy winds up culling many many decent people and those that contribute positively to Thailand.

By saying "the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'." is not a judgement statement on its own. I agree that dissuading peodophiles and other low-lifers from residing here is good. Now, if Thailand ever started to seriously cull out the same within their own ranks, there'd be a lot less Thais in Thailand - but that's another story. Meanwhile, a nightclub owning Thai (massage parlours were his 'cover') can hire a crew of thugs to go to downtown BKK and competely destroy hundreds of vendors' businesses in one night, and that same guy is untouchable by the cops. Or another guy can hack off a girl's arm (from being offended) and is apparently off scott-free (whatever happened with him and his cop buddies?). A non-smoking farang

is accused of dropping a cig butt on a sidewalk (in filthy Bangkok) and forced to pay a 2,000 baht fine. Perhaps we need to redefine 'undesirables.'

JR Texas: The following has been suggested: "Perhaps we need to redefine undesirables."

OK....I will take a stab at it:

Undesirable farang:

1) Any farang that believes FOX News is actually news

2) Any farang that is still wearing an "I love Nixon/Reagan" button

3) Any farang that thinks TOXIN is good for the body, mind and economy

4) Any farang that is in love with Rush Limbaugh

5) Any grandfathered-in farang that does not have the ability to project what life would be like for him if he had to meet the current visa rules and regulations,

6) Any farang whose sole purpose in life is to cause real estate rates to go up

7) Any farang that would dare make fun of the Great Nation of Texas

8) Any farang that does not love smoked BBQ and Tex-Mex Mexican food

There.......that should clean out most of the really bad people! :D

D**n!, I was rolling til I hit number 7!

[wolfmanjack]

I'm confused. It happens sometimes.

What, exactly, is wrong with the proposition that - to use the OPs own words - the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'.

Sounds like exactly the right thing to do. What should they be doing - welcoming undesirables with a red carpet?

Does anyone else see the delicious irony in a poster calling himself 'vermin on arrival' complaining about immigration policies?

yes, as the OP, I did say "the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'." but that was a lead-in to the resolution of the sentence which said, in effect, the policy winds up culling many many decent people and those that contribute positively to Thailand.

By saying "the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'." is not a judgement statement on its own. I agree that dissuading peodophiles and other low-lifers from residing here is good. Now, if Thailand ever started to seriously cull out the same within their own ranks, there'd be a lot less Thais in Thailand - but that's another story. Meanwhile, a nightclub owning Thai (massage parlours were his 'cover') can hire a crew of thugs to go to downtown BKK and competely destroy hundreds of vendors' businesses in one night, and that same guy is untouchable by the cops. Or another guy can hack off a girl's arm (from being offended) and is apparently off scott-free (whatever happened with him and his cop buddies?). A non-smoking farang

is accused of dropping a cig butt on a sidewalk (in filthy Bangkok) and forced to pay a 2,000 baht fine. Perhaps we need to redefine 'undesirables.'

JR Texas: The following has been suggested: "Perhaps we need to redefine undesirables."

OK....I will take a stab at it:

Undesirable farang:

1) Any farang that believes FOX News is actually news

2) Any farang that is still wearing an "I love Nixon/Reagan" button

3) Any farang that thinks TOXIN is good for the body, mind and economy

4) Any farang that is in love with Rush Limbaugh

5) Any grandfathered-in farang that does not have the ability to project what life would be like for him if he had to meet the current visa rules and regulations,

6) Any farang whose sole purpose in life is to cause real estate rates to go up

7) Any farang that would dare make fun of the Great Nation of Texas

8) Any farang that does not love smoked BBQ and Tex-Mex Mexican food

There.......that should clean out most of the really bad people! :D

D**n!, I was rolling til I hit number 7!

Yep #7 is the only one out of the 8 that i missed on. I have met too many texans that love rush limbaugh and both of the george bush's.

[cclub75]

How long is it before someone comes up with the classic line: "Thailand needs farangs to survive economically"?

Oh okay then , if you really insist :Thailand needs farangs to survive economically.

My opinion hasn't changed since last august (and the first signs of some real changes).

-There is a plan

-This plan is global = not only about visas.

-The aim is to reduce the number of foreigners living permanently in Thailand, and to reduce the foreign influences on thai economy and thai society.

-This plan is absolutly not linked to one political party : it has started under Thaksin, it continues full speed with the junta. We can assume that the aim of this plan is shared by the ruling elite. Therefore, it won't change any time soon (I say that to those who believe to the magic stick motto : "after elections, everything will return to normal").

-I don't buy at all the idea that because TIT syndrome, rules are changing and can have different interpretations, etc.

Actually this is part of the plan : to proceed step by step, silently, to create and to use confusion and uncertainty. It's the frog in hot water principle. The process will be slow, with steps back and forth, but the final target is clear.

You can review all the events, you'll see clearly the pattern.

-land ownerships via company scheme, first alerts in july and august 2006

-visa shake up (august and october 2006)

-currency manipulation and capital controls (december 2006)

-Foreign Business Act 2 (still pending at NLA)

-Retail Act (still pending at NLA)

For every subject, thai authorities use deception with their explainations : Visa ? "To protect against crime, national security, terrorists, pedophils, mafia" you name it etc.

FBA ? "It's because of the Shin scandal".

Retail Act ? "To protect our local shops and the way of living of many people".

Currency ? "To fight against speculation".

We could name this pattern : the chinese model. And it's all about control.

tourists, exports, economic growth = yes

foreign influences inside the country (population, economic, political, culture) and freedom (speech, politics, markets) = no

[ThaiGoon]

[Khun ?]

The more financial freedom one aquires the more undesireable titless-land becomes.

They better let the lower rung of farangs stay, not many others that can cope with the place

for to long if at all.