Do You Need A Bachelor's Level Degree To Teach In Thailand?

[DeMathew]

I was about to take a TEFL course here in Thailand to help me find a job in teaching English. However, I then started to read around that I would need bachelor's level degree as well as a TEFL certificate.

Can someone please tell me any experience or know if I could get a job teaching with just a TEFL and no bachelor's level degree

Does the school need the bachelor's level degree to be able to apply for a work permit?

I want to know, as my girlfriend's dad is a head master at a school in Thailand and is wanting me to teach there, I will talk to him again as maybe he can get me a job without the degree needed.

Please any help.

Tobey

[richard10365]

It is possible to find a teaching gig without a BA degree.

With that said, you most likely won't be legal. You will still need a work permit to work legally here in Thailand. I also imagine your here with a tourist visa.

Government schools will not hire you legally. Universities will probably laugh at you.

If your caught, you could go to jail and be deported (in that order).

Your future in Thailand will never be secure. Chances are you will meet a girl, fall in love and get married. Then you will probably try to start a family. After years of being a good husband, father, teacher and citizen in the community your living in, you might get caught and deported. You and your family will suffer greatly.

You will then blame Thailand for having bad laws when all along you could have avoided all of this by having the BA degree before you decided to work illegally in Thailand.

[Loaded]

I know quite a few teachers in Chiang Mai without degrees working legally. pm me if you want more details of where and how. All have obtained work permits legally.

Without a work permit I have only heard of 1 teacher in the last 10 years who had a problem because they weren't legal. This was also recently discussed on ajarn and other senior long-term teachers agreed - 1 in the last 10 years in the whole of Thailand (and that was in Pattaya!!!) Not bad considering there must be thousands working here without work permits.

People telling you that you'll be arrested, hanged and quartered create unsubstantiated rumours on the internet that do no benefit anyone here.

A few teachers were arrested earlier in the year for use FAKE documents to obtain work permits. Never do this and it's completely unnnecessary.

[richard10365]

I do know teachers who are currently teaching on last years teaching license here in Chiang Mai. They were able to get it with only an associates degree (2 year degree).

Those teachers have been told next year they will not be hired again since the government is enforcing the BA degree rule. No BA degree = no teaching license = no work permit.

Work without a work permit = illegal activities here in Thailand.

I expect Loaded's associates to be some of the ones looking for a job next year and are currently worried about how they will support their families in the future.

The question was asked if it was possible to work without it. The answer is yes. Knowing what can and cannot happen is always beneficial.

People telling you to pretend negative consequences are not there when they clearly are do not benefit people here.

[Loaded]

I expect Loaded's associates to be some of the ones looking for a job next year and are currently worried about how they will support their families in the future.

You 'expect'. You don't know but that doesn't stop you from making comments that people may take as facts - irresponsible! and that's what's been happening here and other discussion boards recently.

FYI there are many schools employing legally teachers without degrees in Chiang Mai. There are also many that won't employ you if you don't have a degree. You comment that NEXT year teachers at your school won't be employed, what about THIS year? Those of us that have been here a long time know that plans/proposals/suggestions probably will never happen. And it's YOUR school making the comment, it's not from an official source that you can quote.

Rich - I'm not trying to start an argument, but I was here when the first posts from teachers starting going on to discussion boards at ajarn nearly 10 years ago. It's been doom and gloom since from discussion boards. But nothing has really changed - a degree has always been needed by the MoE to obtain a teacher's licence/wp but schools have always found ways around this.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Loaded

[mopenyang]

but schools have always found ways around this.

IMHO, these are not the days in Thailand to be working as a teacher on the basis of an employer having "found a way around" the regulations and/or the law.

Sorry, but it seems to be too "iffy" of a way to live and have any sense of long-term security given the increased enforcement of existing regulations and implementation of new ones.

Again, IMHO, if you have a legitimate degree, you are in a much better position than not having one in the current scheme of things.

[Loaded]

Can anyone quote from a government source these 'new' regulations? The MoE has a website and so does the MoL. "My school told me" or "A friend saw a document" (written in Thai) doesn't do it for me.

Every year there are schools and teachers 'quoting' new regulations but nothing changes. IMO

I agree that if you're planning a family here then you will live on thin ice without a degree, with a degree, and/or with 800, 000 baht in the bank. All of us have no firm underpinning here. We all have to apply for visas and it's next to impossible to get residency. Citizenship - forget it. That's the reality here but we accept it.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Loaded

[DeMathew]

Thanks to everyone who has been commenting on here, it has cleared my confused mind

And LOADED i will keep that in mind and will probably end up pm you after i talk to my girlfriend and her dad.

And nope i'm not on a tourist visa, i'm here on a non-immigrant type O multi entry visa.

anyway thanks everyone

[richard10365]

I don't wish anything bad on anyone. I hope I am wrong. I probably am. I'll try to stick to facts and not opinions.

The teachers at PRC (in Chiang Mai) are being told to find work else where next year if they do not have a BA degree. That's a fact.

Their teachers licenses that were issued last year are good for 2 years. They expire and the end of the current school year. After that, no more teachers license. That is a fact.

No teachers license and no work permit. That is a fact.

Working in Thailand without a work permit is illegal. That is a fact.

This is a forum. Forums usually have many opinions that are not grounded in fact. I have one opinion and Loaded has another.

I hope I have cleared things up for you.

Edited June 7, 2007 by richard10365

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks to both Richard and Loaded for addressing this common and confusing question. Both of your viewpoints, though different, are true in their own way and important to consider for anyone thinking about trying to teach here without a B.A. (and I'm so tired of answering this perennial question myself!!!)

"Steven"

[richard10365]

Steven, your always so much more diplimatic than I could ever be. I hope I didn't offend loaded. Sometimes,.....well often, I'm sure I come across quite negative. Lately, I've been try to be a bit more positive. We'll see how that goes in the future.

[Loaded]

I don't wish anything bad on anyone. I hope I am wrong. I probably am. I'll try to stick to facts and not opinions.

The teachers at PRC (in Chiang Mai) are being told to find work else where next year if they do not have a BA degree. That's a fact.

Their teachers licenses that were issued last year are good for 2 years. They expire and the end of the current school year. After that, no more teachers license. That is a fact.

No teachers license and no work permit. That is a fact.

.

No offence taken Rich. But you are still talking about YOUR school and you're presenting YOUR school's policy as a national policy. Show your proof. MoE/Mol/MoI website perchance?

Anyway, I know your school and I know that it's an American guy named J*** who has told teachers this based on what he's been told by his Thai employers. Pleaee please show evidence that it's national policy.

A quick ps

Teacher Licences are not compulsory to obtain work permits for teachers (in Chiang Mai at least). many schools make them compulsory because they need to show parents that their teachers are real and qualified. This is certainly true in Chiang Mai. Did you read the interview with the Chiang Mai MoE on ajarn? It's very clear.

Edited June 8, 2007 by Loaded

[idle44mins]

It's not clear!!!!!!!

Not for the teachers, not for the schools, not for the government, basically it's not clear for anybody.

The only thing that's clear, is a concept from an advisory council from the MoE, but nothing of this concept is actually arranged by law. So, for the time being, the (provincial) Ministeries of Education take from this concept whatever suits them, that's why it is impossible to describe a process of getting a TL and WP.

I was told, that a degree is required for teachers at Government Schools and that most Universities require a degree.

Teachers hired by private institutions (schools and language centres, as well as other companies), don't need to have a degree, because the MoE is not responsible for these branches. However, in most cases, the private institutions require a degree in order to filter out a certain level.

[mopenyang]

It's not clear!!!!!!!

Not for the teachers, not for the schools, not for the government, basically it's not clear for anybody.

The only thing that's clear, is a concept from an advisory council from the MoE, but nothing of this concept is actually arranged by law. So, for the time being, the (provincial) Ministeries of Education take from this concept whatever suits them, that's why it is impossible to describe a process of getting a TL and WP.

I was told, that a degree is required for teachers at Government Schools and that most Universities require a degree.

Teachers hired by private institutions (schools and language centres, as well as other companies), don't need to have a degree, because the MoE is not responsible for these branches. However, in most cases, the private institutions require a degree in order to filter out a certain level.

Actually, one thing here is pretty clear, and this is that with a legitimate degree you will likely be able to get through the entire process relatively unscathed regardless of where you will be working.

Without a legitimate degree, things can become much more "challenging."

[Ijustwannateach]

^Probably a fair summary.

[aussiestyle1983]

I was legal for the last 18 months without having any degree. My school just submitted a lot of my vocational certificates and a Diploma in TEFL and that was it.

I have now started studying through the open universities ( and believe me, this is no walk in the park or easy degree, those considering doing it just to get a degree will get a big wake up call with the ammount of work involved ) to work towards a BA to use when my wife and I return to LOS in 5, 10, 20 or 50 years.

For those who want to study online and via print materials while still being able to work abroad, I think the OU is the way to go. The Australian OU degrees cost not much more that attending an Internatinal program in a Thai Uni, and for me personally, I'd rather have a degree from an Australian Uni than from a Thai Uni, especially if considering teaching or working in other countries than Thailand.

Anyway, I'm now in the USA and in a few months will be back in Australia. I no longer work in Thailand and I'm kinda glad I don't have to put up with a lot of the BS there anymore. Being back in the West, even thought it's only been a few days now, feels a lot better and is more enjoyable than living in LOS. I will be contacting the school I use to work for in a few days and I'll be letting them know I won't be returning from my approved one month holiday. I don't realy care what they say because I have allready recieved my last salary in full and the school doesn't owe me money. For those who are planing to leave or change schools, I would do it in a way to protect yourself. I just left they day after pay day so the school wasn't able to rip me off. I know many others who have been ripped off by giving notice, so leaving the school in a sneaky way to protect yourself is deffinently the way to do it there. At the end of the day, if you do the right thing and give notice, you may be ripped off, If you do the wrong thing by the school and just vanish, you are actually doing the right thing for yourself be protecting your salary and protecting yourself from being subject to more BS and getting ripped off.

Anyway, back on topic, you can get legal without a degree, but if you're planing to stay there long term, I'd be doing whatever it takes to get a BA, especially if you are supporting family.

Edited June 8, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[Loaded]

Anyway, back on topic, you can get legal without a degree, but if you're planing to stay there long term, I'd be doing whatever it takes to get a BA, especially if you are supporting family.

Fair comment

[PeaceBlondie]

My special thanks go out to Loaded for repeating the mantra that nobody has ever produced an official statement or legally binding national policy from any ministry of Thailand on these matters. The interview with the officer out of Chiang Mai that was published on ajarn only showed that local policy was not national, and wasn't absolute at all.

If your wife's father is a headmaster, he can probably hire anybody he wants. The greater question for most of us is whether Ajarn Chachacha or her boss is willing to take you down to the MoE or the MoL or to Immigration Police and convince or bribe the poo-yai down there to get you legal. Or whether it really matters. The longer I live and work here, the more mai pen says rai.

[carnival1200]

I agree that if you're planning a family here then you will live on thin ice without a degree, with a degree, and/or with 800, 000 baht in the bank.

400,000 baht or 800,000 baht. Dont believe everthing you read on nere from those in the know

[youwant2nome]

Tobey,

No BA no Work permit.... You can teach with just a TEFL and even with out.. I am in the same situation as yourself. I have found the greatest school and a great salary with benifits.. If your interested in finding the details you can post a reply with your email and I will send it to you

JC

[Ijustwannateach]

^Please make that a PM with your email, and caveat emptor.

"Steven"

[youwant2nome]

This is all quite confusing to me, I have been in Thailand for almost a year and I got bored of just site seeing so I thought I would something. I moved to Bangkok. I applied for 4 schools. I had 4 interviews. Was offered a job by all 4 schools and I choose 1. I do not have a BA nor a TEFL. Its a great school, Great staff. and GREAT SALARY and Benifits. I don't understand why this so difficult. In my experince the MOE goes by case by case basis. Most of all the reputation of the School. Its common sense actually... I think we know who caused all this paranoia and Its quite unfair but in reality. If your a good teacher and act in reasonable way and are able to teach halfway decent you shouldnt have a problem. My advise to everyone is if your a newbie do what I did and be honest to the School and if they like you and want you they will support you.. Also... goverment schools are great to work for if you have degrees but priviate schools are easier to get hired... TRUST ME !!!! Good luck..

ps.. my school is still needing teachers if anyone interested post your email...

[colino]

im in the same boat i have a tefl diploma had work through agencys but left because they didn't help with work permit , what are the rules for being self employed working from home here in los ,,, anybody got any info please

[Ijustwannateach]

Youwant2nome,

Posting emails is not routinely allowed on Thaivisa. If you want people to contact you, they are free to send you their emails by system PM (it is a kind of internal message system within Thaivisa). You can access it by clicking on the "New Messages" link in the upper right hand corner of your screen on any page of Thaivisa.

Colino, as far as I'm aware, self-employment as a foreigner running a school (by yourself) is illegal. The paperwork is difficult and confusing and you will need a Thai partner with some pretty solid educational qualifications. Hardly worth it just to get a visa/work permit for yourself, unless it was your plan to start with.

"S"

[colino]

thanks teach no not my plan just an idea as so many local people want me to teach them didn't know if i could go s/em some way you know keep it legal

[PeaceBlondie]

I was informed by somebody at Sunbelt that if you are American, you might be able to get a work permit as a self employed person, if you use the right professional service such as Sunbelt, if I converted my retirement visa to a B visa, if I was willing to go back to the same 90 day visa runs that almost crippled me two years ago, if I was willing to pay American SE tax (but no federal income tax), etc. I forget if the cost was like 10,000 baht per year or more, but it wasn't cheap.

So, in theory, it seems possible to work self employed, legally and with a work permit, if your nationality coincides with George W. Bush's.

[colino]

thats me stuffed,,

thanks for the info peaceblondie

[ataloss]

...if I converted my retirement visa to a B visa...

Is converting from a retirement visa to a B Visa possible? I wish to work again after 2 years on a retirement visa, and was thinking of lining up a job to start as my retirement visa comes due for renewal. Tried elsewhere to see if anyone else had reverted from their Retirement Non-0 to a B Non-0 visa, to no avail. Any info/ advice/experiences greatly appreciated. Cheers...

[Loaded]

...if I converted my retirement visa to a B visa...

Is converting from a retirement visa to a B Visa possible? I wish to work again after 2 years on a retirement visa, and was thinking of lining up a job to start as my retirement visa comes due for renewal. Tried elsewhere to see if anyone else had reverted from their Retirement Non-0 to a B Non-0 visa, to no avail. Any info/ advice/experiences greatly appreciated. Cheers...

Anything is possible but you will need professional help to prepare the necessary documents. As PB said Sunbelt has a reputation for solving visa and work permit problems.

[Johncat]

I was about to take a TEFL course here in Thailand to help me find a job in teaching English. However, I then started to read around that I would need bachelor's level degree as well as a TEFL certificate.

Can someone please tell me any experience or know if I could get a job teaching with just a TEFL and no bachelor's level degree

Does the school need the bachelor's level degree to be able to apply for a work permit?

I want to know, as my girlfriend's dad is a head master at a school in Thailand and is wanting me to teach there, I will talk to him again as maybe he can get me a job without the degree needed.

Please any help.

Tobey

I work at a school in Issan. My school has just found one Native speaker ( Australian ) and 2 filipino.

The Australian has been given a 10 month contract here. The school arranged his 'B' Visa ( Which was granted ) and tomorrow arranges his work permit. He has NO teaching experience. NO TEFL and NO Degree. But I have seen him in the classroom and he has the makings of a good teacher.

The School tells me that the law says it is up to the school who they hire.

The only requirements are : Degree OR TEFL ( or similar ) OR Native speaker.

The 2 filipinos with Degrees are not very good teachers, and their Spoken English is pretty poor.

If it were up to me I would give preference to someone with a teaching qualification ( TEFL etc ) not to someone who simply had a degree, possibly in some obscure subject which had no use in the classroom