Bloody Time Reflects Mounting Insurgency In Thai South

[Jai Dee]

Bloody May reflects mounting insurgency in Thai south

The separatist insurgency in Thailand's Muslim-majority south intensified last month, taking the number of people killed since January 2004 past 2,300, a researcher in the region said on Wednesday.

Srisompob Jitpiromsri of the Prince of Songkhla University said 103 people were killed in May, making it one of the bloodiest months in the region, an independent sultanate until annexed by overwhelmingly Buddhist Thailand a century ago.

The toll reflected increasing attacks on security forces and civilians as insurgent numbers and support for them rose in the southernmost provinces of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat, abutting the Malaysian border.

At the same time, the largely Buddhist government in faraway Bangkok was still struggling to produce coherent policies and combat tactics, he said.

"The insurgents have been expanding in the past two years while the national reconciliation policy can't stop the attacks," he told Reuters.

Since taking office in October, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont has fought off pressure from the Buddhist majority to take stronger action against the insurgents, saying he remains committed to a peaceful resolution.

He has apologised for the harsh policies of his predecessor, Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a coup last September, and promised restraint in dealing with the violence.

But he has had no more success than Thaksin in dampening the insurgency in a region where most people speak a Malay dialect.

The daily killings and bombings by secretive militants who never claim responsibility have increased steadily despite the presence of 30,000 troops and police.

Srisompob, who said he had managed to contact militant leaders through third parties, said some appeared to want to take the death toll into the tens of thousands in order to force Bangkok into talks on independence.

"One or two thousand deaths is just the beginning. Once you have more than 20,000 people dead, you have more bargaining power for independence," he said. "They want independence. They will not compromise on this goal."

Insurgents also attack infrastructure, including railways, power sub-stations, schools, banks and mobile phone towers.

On Monday, they derailed a train by sabotaging tracks, shutting down rail services south of Hat Yai, the commercial centre of the south.

The state railway expects to resume train services in the far south on Thursday after fixing the damage.

Only in two other months has the death toll been higher than May's 103, and those were due mainly to single events. In April 2004, security forces killed at least 108 militants in one day after insurgents launched attacks on security outposts and a main mosque, pushing the monthly death toll to 151.

In October that year, when 139 people were killed, 78 Muslim protesters died of suffocation in overcrowded army trucks after they were detained.

Source: Reuters - 06 May 2007

[Thaising]

Police arrest Muslim Cambodians enroute to Thai south

SA KAEO, June 6 (TNA) – Thai police nabbed 51 Cambodians for illegally entering Thailand on Wednesday, including eight Muslims en route to the violence-plagued southern border provinces.

Thai Army Rangers and provincial police arrested 48 Cambodians in the eastern province of Sa Kaeo, bordering Cambodia, at highway checkpoints there, while threemore Khmers were detained at the Aranyaprathet border crossing.

Of those arrested, eight are Muslims, traveling from Cambodia's Kampong Cham, who said they planned to go to Thailand's three southern border provinces to seek employment.

They told police that each paid 5,000 baht to middlemen to travel to work in Pattani, Yala, and Narathiwat.

The police are questioning them on suspicion of having a connection with Muslim insurgents in Thailand's restive south.

Three other Cambodians were arrested at the Aranyaprathet border check point. The trio carried fake border pass documents, and confessed to buying the counterfeit papers from a Cambodian in Poipet. They said they intended to work in Thailand's southern border provinces.

Thai Supreme Commander Gen. Boonsang Niempradit conceded last month that the Thai authorities were investigating claims that Cambodian Muslims who entered Thailand were allegedly linked to insurgents operating the country's southernmost provinces.

The supreme commander, however, insisted that Thailand and Cambodia had no dispute over this issue.

[Mid]

103 people were killed in May

Iraqest type figures ...................

[Scott]

Thanks Jai Dee for opening this thread. 103 killed starts to make sense. It seemed like the numbers were increasing, but it was hard to check.

I've noticed that in the newspaper it often seems like they try to minimize the death toll, by listing them at the end of an article. There will be information about a protest, a school being burned, etc. etc. and then the last paragraph will say something about 2 or 3 people being killed.

This seems like a way of playing down the issue. I'd be interested in other's take on this.

[Jai Dee]

I've noticed that in the newspaper it often seems like they try to minimize the death toll... This seems like a way of playing down the issue.

You wouldn't be alone with that observation Scott.

[Plus]

I think it's the semi official policy.

In addition, South is not the first on the nation's minds with so many people vying for its undivided attention.

[megashox]

It wasnt long ago that someone discounted those rebels as "common criminals".

[Losangels]

Interesting interview last night with Ankana(wife of slained muslim lawyer/activist Somchai)on Nation News. When she met with the student protesters at the mosque last weekend in Patanni, it was believed that some member of the security force alleadgedly raped and murdered 4 to 5 muslim girls. If this is the case the government is contributing to the southern problem and what is going on there is not publicized fully.

Very disturbing and sad

[Jai Dee]

Group of insurgents killed police officer in Narathiwat

Eight suspected southern insurgents riding four motorcycles shot dead a police officer after he delivered his wife to a local market in Narathiwat province.

The police officer was identified as Pol. Sen. Sgt. Maj. Suriya Malaimarn, 51. After he drove his wife to the market, the gunmen tracked him down and started to open fire. 11mm and 9mm bullets were shot at the victim, and 11 bullets were found in his body. In addition, there were 18 bullet holes on his car. The insurgents also stole the police officer’s M-16 rifle.

Following the attack, the gunmen immediately fled away. Police assumed the gunmen wanted to create another unrest situation in the violence-plagued South.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 June 2007

[ColPyat]

I've noticed that in the newspaper it often seems like they try to minimize the death toll... This seems like a way of playing down the issue.

You wouldn't be alone with that observation Scott.

There are many people who wonder why the problems in the South get so little attention not just here but in the international medias as well.

[Scott]

I think that world-wide, the southern situation is a pretty small fish in a pretty big pond--given the situation in Iraq, Sudan etc. That doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve the attention.

I also think the gov't doesn't want it to get very much attention. Bad for business. Bad for tourism. Bad for a lot of things.

Given the current state of censorship in the country, I am guessing that there are probably a lot of things that just never get reported, but that's only a guess.

[Jai Dee]

Thai and Malaysian armed forces to jointly conduct air-ground training

Thai and Malaysian army officials had a discussion at Hat Yai distirct of Songkhla province today (Jun 7) to organize the air-ground training between both armed forces, aimed at protecting civilians and preventing acts of insurgency.

The meeting today was attended by Thailand’s 5th Infantry Regiment Commander and the 2nd Airfield Regiment Commander of Malaysia. Both countries will conduct the 13th air-ground training in Perak, Malaysia between July 12th and 22nd, 2007.

The Royal Thai Army has prepared a company of soldiers and administrative officials to the training focusing on ways to prevent terrorist acts from happening. The training will be hands-on and both armed forces can learn and exchange their strategies. In addition, both countries will be able to coordinate and operate more effectively.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 June 2007

[nick2k]

103 people were killed in May

Iraqest type figures ...................

yes, I thought that too.

if you really think about it, the number murdered is getting close to the number of us servicemen killed in iraq.

the muslims down south have declared war on thailand. and thailand still wants to find a peaceful way out of it?

how naive can you be?

..or perhaps we are looking at a military that doesn't want to engage their muslim brothers - hoping that the "powers that be" will submit to the muslims down south granting them independence?

the muslims have already taken the step where they have decided that thais are not human anymore which means it is ok to murder them. the thais should do no less.

war is war. since it is ok for the muslims to murder thai people including women and children, the thais should not hold back on doing the same to them.

bring it on. and get it over with.

what else can you do?

ps. do you really think they will stop if you give them independence? the koran says otherwise.

www.jihadwatch.org

quote, "fight those who wish to stop the spread of islam".

Edited June 7, 2007 by nick2k

[ColPyat]

103 people were killed in May

Iraqest type figures ...................

yes, I thought that too.

if you really think about it, the number murdered is getting close to the number of us servicemen killed in iraq.

the muslims down south have declared war on thailand. and thailand still wants to find a peaceful way out of it?

how naive can you be?

..or perhaps we are looking at a military that doesn't want to engage their muslim brothers - hoping that the "powers that be" will submit to the muslims down south granting them independence?

the muslims have already taken the step where they have decided that thais are not human anymore which means it is ok to murder them. the thais should do no less.

war is war. since it is ok for the muslims to murder thai people including women and children, the thais should not hold back on doing the same to them.

bring it on. and get it over with.

what else can you do?

ps. do you really think they will stop if you give them independence? the koran says otherwise.

www.jihadwatch.org

quote, "fight those who wish to stop the spread of islam".

I don't understand you people.

You make it sound as if it is all so easy. "The Musilims" are the enemy, and "we" are good. So "we" have to fight "the Muslims".

On the ground things are far more complicated. We all know that war is going to come, and that is is going to be terrible, far more terrible than things are now. It is just a matter of time.

A large reason for the coming war and escalation is not just the insurgent's attacks, but such fanatic demands of the population outside to escalate the war.

You don't understand it - a war will be no solution. Such an insurgency cannot be won by waging war. It can only be won by a multitude of parallel strategies and an acceptance that this will take a very long time and a lot of people will die.

Any escalation is exactly what the insurgents want, and work for. It is central part of their strategy. If the government hits back with the same methods it looses all moral high ground. In such a murky war there will inevitably be innocents killed if the government has to change their tactics to a more heavy handed position. And that will inevitably result in an increased support for the insurgency.

There are many Muslims working on the side of the government, and many more don't want to be forced to take sides. By such rants against "the Muslims" you people will only succeed in losing those people to the fanatics of the other side.

I really don't understand you people. The same way i can't understand the fanatics on their side. You are the same.

Edited June 7, 2007 by ColPyat

[Mid]

you people

je ????

[ColPyat]

you people

je ????

Well, the ones like the poster i answered to, the kill 'em all crowd.

[Mid]

thanxs ,

only asked 'cause you included my post and spoke in plural .

Let it be known that Mid is not in the kill 'em all crowd .

[ColPyat]

thanxs ,

only asked 'cause you included my post and spoke in plural .

Let it be known that Mid is not in the kill 'em all crowd .

Ups, sorry about that. I never counted you under those.

[Plus]

Maybe they should really look at Chechnya and how Russians deal with it. There are many similarities, and Russians seem to be close to solving their problem.

They don't mess around, mean business, and are prepared to take a lot of heat. In the end those who were really fighting were eliminated, and those who were not, got the point.

[ColPyat]

Maybe they should really look at Chechnya and how Russians deal with it. There are many similarities, and Russians seem to be close to solving their problem.

They don't mess around, mean business, and are prepared to take a lot of heat. In the end those who were really fighting were eliminated, and those who were not, got the point.

Hundreds of thousands estimated dead in the two Chechen wars.

Yes, very good solution. We really want to see that here in Thailand. But then, we already know what sort of government you favor...

[vermin on arrival]

Maybe they should really look at Chechnya and how Russians deal with it. There are many similarities, and Russians seem to be close to solving their problem.

They don't mess around, mean business, and are prepared to take a lot of heat. In the end those who were really fighting were eliminated, and those who were not, got the point.

Hundreds of thousands estimated dead in the two Chechen wars.

Yes, very good solution. We really want to see that here in Thailand. But then, we already know what sort of government you favor...

Certainly, if Thailand is not going to make any concessions to the aspirations of the Malay speaking Muslim minority in the South, something like Chechnya or the Serb plan for Kossovo would be the only way for the Thais to win.

Please don't infer that I support these kinds of plans. I hope that this is not the solution chosen. I don't think it would take many concessions to start to draw people away from the extremeist insurgents and start to get things on track for an equitable peace. However, it seems that the most the current government will do is to apologize for the behavior of Thaksin's government.

Has anyone heard if anything was offered in the negotiations, or was it all classified?

[Mid]

Has anyone heard if anything was offered in the negotiations, or was it all classified?

take a look at the latest Military appointment for Commander in the area and you'll see what was offered ..........................

[opothai]

Maybe they should really look at Chechnya and how Russians deal with it. There are many similarities, and Russians seem to be close to solving their problem.

They don't mess around, mean business, and are prepared to take a lot of heat. In the end those who were really fighting were eliminated, and those who were not, got the point.

it seems harsh, but it works.

same in china it just will not be tolerated.

but in the west we seem to be under the illusion we can talk and give the murdering terrorist types concessions and they might stop.

until we take these idiots on fully i can only see more and more terrorists coming through. with nothing to deter them.

[vermin on arrival]

Maybe they should really look at Chechnya and how Russians deal with it. There are many similarities, and Russians seem to be close to solving their problem.

They don't mess around, mean business, and are prepared to take a lot of heat. In the end those who were really fighting were eliminated, and those who were not, got the point.

it seems harsh, but it works.

same in china it just will not be tolerated.

but in the west we seem to be under the illusion we can talk and give the murdering terrorist types concessions and they might stop.

until we take these idiots on fully i can only see more and more terrorists coming through. with nothing to deter them.

The concessions would not be for the terrorists. The malay community has some legitimate grievances. The concessions would separate the moderates from the extreme islamists. Once this can be done, then you can pursue a decisive military solution for the radicals. This would minimize the bloodshed.

If you pursue an agenda that is pure stick and no carrot, you will push the moderates into the same camp as the extremists, and then you will have a massive bloodletting. More likely than not, the violence will spill out over into the rest of Thailand just as it did in Russia with terrorist attacks on Moscow, etc.

Also, the thais should realize that if they did this, since they do not have the same standing in the international community as do the Russians or the Chinese, they would be subject to international opprobrium and probably sanctions that would be worse than that given to the Burmese.

Edited June 7, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[Plus]

I'm not sure at all if Russian approach would work here, this is just to bounce some ideas around:

I can't recall any other recent guerilla war that is so similar to Thailand's South - ethnic struggle of minority religious group against imposing state, with a long history of defiance. And they are muslims, too.

Does anyone think that actual fighters in Thailand are any more prepared for compromise and settlement than Chechen rebels?

The reality is that you can't negotiate with these people and they never stop killing. Apparently Thai plan is to isolate them from the main population and hope that they give up their cause. It might work. Russians also tried that when they installed local government there. I believe they offered amnesties left and right, too.

Those who didn't stop fighting were eliminated.

Re. casualties - I'm pretty sure Thailand won't see the same level of violence for a few reasons.

First, in Chechya they had a strong, experienced regular army engaging Russians with every modern weapon they could get their hands on. They don't have that in the South.

Second, Chechens had massive foreign support, in fact the rebels there were wahhabis, not the local brand of Islam at all, and even the West extended helping hand.

As for hopes of political solution - Russians tried that too, after the first war. It failed miserably, from Chechen side. Their appetite for indepence wasn't restricted to Chechnya at all.

[Mid]

very much doubt Malaysia will sit still whilst Bkk wages a full blown war on the south ...........................

[vermin on arrival]

Has anyone heard if anything was offered in the negotiations, or was it all classified?

take a look at the latest Military appointment for Commander in the area and you'll see what was offered ..........................

Yes, I believe I saw that. The man responsible for the Se Khrue Mosque massacre and Tak Bai(or is it Bak Tai I keep getting the name confused) is back. Correct?

[vermin on arrival]

Apparently Thai plan is to isolate them from the main population and hope that they give up their cause. It might work. Russians also tried that when they installed local government there. I believe they offered amnesties left and right, too.

That is the whole point of the concessions-to separate the extremists from the rest of the population. For sure, most or many of the extremists don't want to compromise. The key thing is that you don't want to push the rest of the population into their arms with heavy-handed tactics and a disregard for the feelings of the local populace.

[nick2k]

103 people were killed in May

Iraqest type figures ...................

yes, I thought that too.

if you really think about it, the number murdered is getting close to the number of us servicemen killed in iraq.

the muslims down south have declared war on thailand. and thailand still wants to find a peaceful way out of it?

how naive can you be?

..or perhaps we are looking at a military that doesn't want to engage their muslim brothers - hoping that the "powers that be" will submit to the muslims down south granting them independence?

the muslims have already taken the step where they have decided that thais are not human anymore which means it is ok to murder them. the thais should do no less.

war is war. since it is ok for the muslims to murder thai people including women and children, the thais should not hold back on doing the same to them.

bring it on. and get it over with.

what else can you do?

ps. do you really think they will stop if you give them independence? the koran says otherwise.

www.jihadwatch.org

quote, "fight those who wish to stop the spread of islam".

I don't understand you people.

You make it sound as if it is all so easy. "The Musilims" are the enemy, and "we" are good. So "we" have to fight "the Muslims".

On the ground things are far more complicated. We all know that war is going to come, and that is is going to be terrible, far more terrible than things are now. It is just a matter of time.

A large reason for the coming war and escalation is not just the insurgent's attacks, but such fanatic demands of the population outside to escalate the war.

You don't understand it - a war will be no solution. Such an insurgency cannot be won by waging war. It can only be won by a multitude of parallel strategies and an acceptance that this will take a very long time and a lot of people will die.

Any escalation is exactly what the insurgents want, and work for. It is central part of their strategy. If the government hits back with the same methods it looses all moral high ground. In such a murky war there will inevitably be innocents killed if the government has to change their tactics to a more heavy handed position. And that will inevitably result in an increased support for the insurgency.

There are many Muslims working on the side of the government, and many more don't want to be forced to take sides. By such rants against "the Muslims" you people will only succeed in losing those people to the fanatics of the other side.

I really don't understand you people. The same way i can't understand the fanatics on their side. You are the same.

"innocents"? ..I get this feeling that you are more concerned with the muslims then you are with the thais? it seems like you want to keep on trying to talk to these people to get them to stop. while they are murdering thai people. WHO INCIDENTLY ARE INNOCENT PEOPLE. you don't talk to murderers. you kill them. and until you do, more INNOCENT thai people will get killed.

the reality is - if you just talk to the muslims, they will just continue murdering people. they have already told the general what they are going to do. kill thais. and they are doing it. with no debates, or discussions.

I recall reading about some muslim women down south who killed some nuns. do you remember that?

when there is a mad dog running around killing people, you don't talk to it. you kill it.

[Mid]

The man responsible for the Se Khrue Mosque massacre and Tak Bai(or is it Bak Tai I keep getting the name confused) is back. Correct?

has shares in , may be a better phrase ..........................