Derogatory Or Not?

[Jingthing]

It is completely OK to call Americans Americans. Thats what we call ourselves. Thats what we put down on cards when asked our nationality. Mexicans put down Mexican. Brazilians put down Brazilian. The USA is the only country in the Americas that uses that word in its country name. USA does not stand for the United States of Argentina. Yes, I know South Americans, Central Americans, and Canadians often don't like it, but it is really taking PC way too far to cave in to that. Its almost as ridiculous as saying South Africans can't call themselves South Africans because there are other countries in the south of Africa.

BTW, is Canuck derogatory? I think it can be a bit more offensive than Aussie.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[polecat]

Language is a very powerful medium and should be respected.

There is a whole lot of baggage that goes with words such as paki, nigger, chink, jap, kraut, gook, daygo etc, etc, and I think more people should be aware of that. Mostly the terms derive from innocuous sources, but the meaning of language constantly evolves. If you doubt this, have a dabble with any book on etymology. The word gypsy might be a good place to start.

If you maintain that, say, 'paki' is alright because it is just an abbreviation of Pakistani then, to my mind, you are reinforcing the differences between your own group and theirs. When thousands of people rioted across Bradford, Oldham and other places in the UK back in 2000, it was exactly because of an atmosphere in which terms like 'paki' were used to dehumanise huge swathes of the community.

If terms like Aussie, Yank and Pom were similarly used as a method of social subjugation, then they would also come to be thought of as offensive.

And with regard to people using these loaded terms within their own (usually racial) group, that does not justify its use. A rifle in the hands of a soldier is a different proposition to a rifle in the hands of a citizen.

[Jet Gorgon]

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

[highchol]

quick look through the postings and I get the feeling that the poll result to date (62/37) does not reflect the replies!

Edited June 7, 2007 by highchol

[smartecosse]

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

and the Americans don't?

They think they are pretty much superior to everyone else on the planet............

[geronimo]

The problem isn't only with how harsh the word sounds etc... but the fact that its used to describe people who are not even from Pakistan. Its a derogatory word used for anyone of Indian decent and is based on COLOUR and not REGIONALITY. That to me is racist, because they could be born in the UK or Australia and still be referred to as a Paki purely based on skin colour/look.

Then surely Farang comes into that category!!!!

[larvidchr]

Of course it's derogatory. It's not the importance of the word itself, it's the inference of the user. And when someone uses Paki it's usually meant offensively.

In fact, some words can be either offensive or non-offensive, depending on who uses it. I'm not sure if I'm breaking forum rules here, but historically when whites have used 'nigger' it's to be offensive. But the black population have appropriated it, almost ironically. When they use it, it's 'supportive and filial' about each other.

I agree, that "paki" and "nigger" are offensive and racist with the exceptions mentioned by Bendix, but where it for me starts to get over the top is when the word "negro" is labled racist, to me it is just a description of a race like caucasian, or asian, but in my country who dont have any significant number of negros in the population ( in fact very few) it was by order from the highest place suddenly outlawed in reports, we where told to use the word "black" to describe a negro's racial relation, now that was to me giving in to a antiracist lobby going over the top.

So what do TV members think when it comes to the word "negro"

Kind regards

Edited June 7, 2007 by larvidchr

[t.s]

It is completely OK to call Americans Americans. Thats what we call ourselves. Thats what we put down on cards when asked our nationality. Mexicans put down Mexican. Brazilians put down Brazilian. The USA is the only country in the Americas that uses that word in its country name. USA does not stand for the United States of Argentina. Yes, I know South Americans, Central Americans, and Canadians often don't like it, but it is really taking PC way too far to cave in to that. Its almost as ridiculous as saying South Africans can't call themselves South Africans because there are other countries in the south of Africa.

BTW, is Canuck derogatory? I think it can be a bit more offensive than Aussie.

you think wrong. it is not derogatory at all.

ie Vancouver Canucks hockey team.

Also, Canadians could not care less that Americans call themselves Americans. at least not any i know.

Edited June 7, 2007 by t.s

[onzestan]

So what do TV members think when it comes to the word "negro"

Kind regards

Funny isn't, you can call a person black but not negro, although this persons appearance can be called negroide.

cheers

stan

[chinthee]

So what do TV members think when it comes to the word "negro"

Kind regards

Funny isn't, you can call a person black but not negro, although this persons appearance can be called negroide.

cheers

stan

I think the term negro is antiquated now and used rarely in the US, for example. At least in the US, there is perhaps a slave/master undertone to that word, but again, between and among US blacks, they call each other that and use that word as a term of endearment or emphasis.

[naka]

All this PC nonsense.

Can't some of you people stop saying ... SORRY ... all the time ? ... grow a pair

Naka.

Edited June 7, 2007 by naka

[Etrigan]

Archaic nonsense!

[November Rain]

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

Jet, I am a Brit. I think I'd know if I looked down on anyone or not. It's possible the people you worked with were just out & out bigots who hated everyone. I'll admit that there are some Brits like that, but they're certainly not representative of the rest of us. I assume there are Americans, French, Scandinavians, Australians, Kenyans..... ad infinitum who are bigoted & superior, too.

[DirkGently]

'Paki' is the new 'Nigger'.

These terms have been used for ages as an offensive term for those we dislike. However, it seems to be the case that British Pakistanis are using the term themselves in the same way American blacks refer to eachother as 'nigger' or, it would seem from album covers, 'Nigga'.

Personally I don't care for the terms. Once they have shown me that they don't act in ways that I dislike I can look past their difference.

[Dakhar]

Actually, I am from North America,USA, and I don't not like the term Yank. Funny thoug, I thought an Austrailian would like the term "Ausie." To me, the term holds character, a symbol of independence, fortitude and strenght.

For example, some folks called me a Cajun when I was growing up. Which by blood line I am, by culture I am not.... I have French in my viens, but my family was not part of the French Canadains that were tossed out of Canada. But when I was called a Cajun I took that as a compliment. Now a Coon AS* well, it did not upset me, but I felt it to be a little on edge to me. Cajuns take their culture pretty seriously, I once had a cajun girlfriend that wished I was cajun to the bone such as her. Ultimatley I was not cajun enough for her, and we parted as friends. Fun people, & great food.

Funny about the Afro Americans, yes they do call themselves the "N" word, and so did the Vietnamese where I grew up. I thought that to be really weird, an Asian, considering himself to be African? I don't get it?

Dakhar, you have just elevated yourself on my admiration scale. I love Cajuns. "Les Bontons Roulon." You are a unique people and I love you to death. Few of these posters have any clue what we are talking about. That is the remarkable nature of the USA -- our diversity.

I am actually raising up crawfish here in Thailand. I don't know if I will ever have enough to farm them on a wide scale, although we do have the land. It is the crawfish.... they don't behave like rabbits if you know what I mean. I need some crawfish porn. Any how, one day I will get to have a crawfish boil!

[lannarebirth]

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

and the Americans don't?

They think they are pretty much superior to everyone else on the planet............

Only in this one respect. We don't give a ###### what you call us.

[torito]

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

Jet, I am a Brit. I think I'd know if I looked down on anyone or not. It's possible the people you worked with were just out & out bigots who hated everyone. I'll admit that there are some Brits like that, but they're certainly not representative of the rest of us. I assume there are Americans, French, Scandinavians, Australians, Kenyans..... ad infinitum who are bigoted & superior, too.

Interesting, I love americans and Brits, NZ, Irish and Scotish (even I cannot understand a word from them).

I like brits becuase I know what I am going to get. They think that they are better. I can cope with that, becuase I really think that they are the best, even when they are vulgar. Americans are great because individually they are very nice people to deal with (unfortunatelly not as a nation).

Australians of the "australian white only policy" generation, who unfortunatelly still survive in great quantities, even use the term "migrant" in a derogative meaning. If one is a migrant, cannot talk a minute with them without receiving a denigrant statement.

The real issue are not the derogative terms, but equal oportunities, honest acceptance of the individual. This is the uncomfortable part.

If negroes in America would not have been treated like dogs, probably today would be cool to be called negro. If "<deleted>" in Australia would be treated without contemp, probably I would love to be called like that.

[highchol]

is the term "paki" derogatory or racist? Not so in a typical english town.....

http://books.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1996559,00.html

its in the guardian it must be true!

[Shrubbery]

We live in a world of abbreviations. If people want to take offence, they will. And they will probably try to make a few quid out of it in the process.

The world is getting too POLITICALLY CORRECT. Someone will always take offence to any comment.

[kankaroo]

Errrrm, is it just me or does this have nothing to do with Thailand, apart from the fact that BKK has got loads of Paki's , WHHOOOOOPS !!!!! I mean people from Pakastan

Only kidding I am not a racist but I hail from the UK where it is a very common phrase.

BTW I voted yes in the poll.

[Pepe']

It has been suggested in another thread that calling someone from Australia an Aussie is exactly the same as calling someone from Pakistan a Paki and that this is not derogatory in any manner and that the "racism" angle exists solely in my mind.

I am interested to find out what others think.........

-------------------------

Used to go on shore leave with Aussie sailors, best guys in the world. Bloomin' Aussies never minded being called that.

Got several good Aussie friends here. Actually Aussies have been some of my best friends over the years. Nobody else quite like 'em. "Drinkin' p_ss and brawlin" always a good night out mate.

I have spent lots of time in India and have had a lot of dealings with local Pakis.

No further comment on them...

[sonnyJ]

THE OXFORD DICTIONARY OF MODERN SLANG states;

PAKI - noun, derogatory. A Pakistani, especially an immigrant from Pakistan. Hence, Paki-bashing. Racist assault of Pakistani immigrants. 1964-

NIGGER - noun. 1 now mainly derogatory and offensive when used by White people, but neutral or approving in Black English. A Black person. 1786-

-L. Huges: "A klansman said, 'Nigger, Look me in the face--And tell me you believe in the great white race' (1964)."

2 A screen used to mask studio lights or create special lighting effects. 1934-

CHINK - noun. derogatory and offensive. A Chinese person. 1901-

J. Durack: "We used to have a couple staying with us. Chinks, they were, medical students (1969)."

JAP - 1 noun A Japanese person.

2 verb transitive (US). To make a sneak attack on. 1957-

H. E. Salisbury: "An uncertain area where one side or another may at any sudden moment 'jap' an unwary alien (1958)." Apparently reference to Pearl Harbour (1941).

KRAUT - noun. derogatory. A German, especially a German soldier. 1918-

T. Pynchon: "Maybe... he should have been in a war, Japs in trees, Krauts in Tiger tanks (1966)."

GOOK - noun. derogatory, originates and mainly US. A foreigner; specifically a coloured person from S.E. or E. Asia. 1935- (Origin unknown)

DAGO - 1 noun. derogatory. A foreigner, especially a Spaniard, Portuguese or Italian. 1832-

Listener: "England should have won. All that stopped us was that the dagos (Paraguayans) got more goals than us (1968)."

2 The Spanish or Italian language. 1900-

Edited June 7, 2007 by sonnyJ

[Pepe']

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

Jet, I am a Brit. I think I'd know if I looked down on anyone or not. It's possible the people you worked with were just out & out bigots who hated everyone. I'll admit that there are some Brits like that, but they're certainly not representative of the rest of us. I assume there are Americans, French, Scandinavians, Australians, Kenyans..... ad infinitum who are bigoted & superior, too.

Interesting, I love americans and Brits, NZ, Irish and Scotish (even I cannot understand a word from them).

I like brits becuase I know what I am going to get. They think that they are better. I can cope with that, becuase I really think that they are the best, even when they are vulgar. Americans are great because individually they are very nice people to deal with (unfortunatelly not as a nation).

Australians of the "australian white only policy" generation, who unfortunatelly still survive in great quantities, even use the term "migrant" in a derogative meaning. If one is a migrant, cannot talk a minute with them without receiving a denigrant statement.

The real issue are not the derogative terms, but equal oportunities, honest acceptance of the individual. This is the uncomfortable part.

If negroes in America would not have been treated like dogs, probably today would be cool to be called negro. If "<deleted>" in Australia would be treated without contemp, probably I would love to be called like that.

-----------------------------------

I believe the Thais enslaved their own people for generations.

The Mayans and Incans enslaved and performed human sacrifice on their own people. The Mayans killed 800,000 of their own people in a ten year period.

Oh I forgot about the Greeks and Romans and Egyptions (and others the list is too long) enslaving and slaughtering their own for centuries.

Negros in America you meant "Snoop Dogs" not regular dogs did'nt you...

"Let's get jiggy my n_gger hoe with the street heat beat."- M.C.Hammer

[torito]

Negros in America you meant "Snoop Dogs" not regular dogs did'nt you...

"Let's get jiggy my n_gger hoe with the street heat beat."- M.C.Hammer

Not quite sure if I understand you "Jose"...I do not know the term "snoop dogs".

In fact Muhamed Ali wrote that negroes were "treated like dogs" when he refuses going to Vietnam.

I meant that negroes were discriminated, treated like dogs, had no rights, not even in war were treated like equals. If this would not have existed negro would denote nothing more than skin color.

[qwertz]

Hey torito, I don't mind being called a gringo.

In fact, people can call me what they like, so long as ii's in time for dinner.

[Jingthing]

Just curious.

Is there a derogatory term just for Thais? Maybe Burmese people say it. What might it be? Something like yumbos related to tom yum goong and rhymes with dumbo? Or how about smileys?

You can't shorten Thai like you can for Pakistanis. Th doesn't cut it as a slur.

In case you can't tell, I am trying to be humorous. If the Thais don't have a slur, maybe they are missing out on something. After all, if some people don't hate you, you hardly exist.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[qwertz]

Just curious.

Is there a derogatory term just for Thais? Maybe Burmese people say it. What might it be? Something like yumbos related to tom yum goong and rhymes with dumbo? Or how about smileys?

You can't shorten Thai like you can for Pakistanis. Th doesn't cut it as a slur.

In case you can't tell, I am trying to be humorous. If the Thais don't have a slur, maybe they are missing out on something. After all, if some people don't hate you, you hardly exist.

You could call them pathetic instead of pathet thai.

On second thoughts, not a good idea.

[torito]

Hey torito, I don't mind being called a gringo.

In fact, people can call me what they like, so long as ii's in time for dinner.

Definitively, actually "gringo" for us is the equivalent to farang. We use it indistinctly for anybody who do not speak spanish and it is not Asian. For us this term is not derogative. As I understand mexican use it in a derogative way.

[carnival1200]

Yes, it's racist. It's not the same as calling an Australian, "aussie", because the connotation is different. The word "Aussie" is used in a friendly way. I've never heard the word "Paki" be used in a way that wasn't hostile, dismissive or downright derogatory. Therefore it is racist.

Didnt G W Bush refer to Pakistanis as Pakis in one of his recent speaches.  surely he isnt racist

[sonnyJ]

Continued..

AUSSIE - noun. 1 An Australian. 1917-

S. Hope: "Most Aussies, contrary to popular belief, are town dwellers (1957)"

2 (Austral) Australia. 1917-

Australian: "Cheers from A Sunburnt Country! the advertisement trumpets. Toast your Pommie mates with a gift from good old Aussie (1974)."

3 adjective. Australian. 1918-

I. L. Idriess: "Fred Colson, a cheerful Aussie bushman (1931).

POM, POMMIE and POMMY - (Austral and NZ) noun. 1 A somewhat derogatory term for a British person especially a recent immigrant. 1912-

J. Galsworthy: "They call us Pommies and treat us as if we'd took a liberty in coming to their blooming country (1926)."

2 adjective. British, English. Often (at times affectionately) in phrase 'Pommy bastard'. 1915-

[An alteration of 'pomegranate' after 'immigrant' or 'jimmygrant' (1845-).

Not sure if the Burmese have more than one word for Thai people. Normal word is Yodaya.