Bride Price And Hiv

[khemosabi]

Bride Price and HIV

I know someone who has a Thai girl friend and they have been talking about marriage.

Her parents suggested a bride price (BP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price)

(most use the incorrect word- dowry. see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry) of 1,000,000 baht. Way to high as she comes from a below to average glass family, so he told her 50,000 and then her parents came back with 200,000. Still to high.

He says he will not have any money to marry her until later next year, when he starts his Social Security. She says she will wait, but he tries to explain to her it's not right that they have to wait just because he don't have the BP now. He know she wants to be with him now, because she often tells him so. He has told her to explain to her parents they want to get married now and that he can pay later next year. He doesn't know if she has told them that or not. She still says they must wait.

He says if he had the money he would be willing to pay a certain amount for the BP, but he just doesn't have the extra cash now. He feels, and I agree, if it keeps 2 people, that love each other apart, then it is very wrong Period

Anyway, things have changed. Last night she stopped at his apartment after work, and showed him the results of her blood test. She test positive for HIV.

The T- Cell count won't be know until later this month. Hopefully it is still high.

Let me quickly say that she is not and was not a bar girl. This young girl, made a tragic mistake (remember you can get HIV from one sexual encounter). He said, I'm not going to abandon her.

Early in their relationship she told him she may have HIV, and thought it best to stop seeing each other so he could find someone else. Even though she still wanted to see him, she felt it best for him. But, he insisted to still see her and they have come to love each other.

He has told her, he loves her and will still marry her even if she has HIV. And now he knows for sure she does.

Her parents do not know about her having HIV, only him and her 2 sisters.

He wants her to move in with him now, so they can enjoy being together while she is healthy.

So what does he tell her and her family about the BP? He doesn't want to say anything that would offend them.

Thanks

[soundman]

Damaged goods usually warrant a discount.

Soundman.

[Scott]

The decision to marry is between them. I had a friend who just plain refused to pay and his fiancee agreed--they basically told the family to get lost. I don't know if your friend can, but it might be worth a try.

On the other hand, she can tell them she is sick, but not specifically what is wrong. Deception is pretty common here.

Also, they should understand that she most likely has a long life ahead of her with the drugs on the market, so they don't need to rush or hurry anything, including decisions, based on her HIV status.

Best of luck to them.

[bendix]

Fellow TVers.

I COULD take this one, but it could get messy. I implore someone else to reply first.

[chanchao]

Interesting dilemma, let's for argument's sake assume it's genuine: The main problem is her inability to confront her parents and think about herself for a minute here.

Fix just that and everything will fall into place, however it is the thing that's most hard fix.

She must realize that she currently has ONE opportunity at a loving husband and be a family, and ironically this is also the same single opportunity her parents have of a situation where their daughter can provide benefits for them in the years to come. Miss this one opportunity and her life is over. It all hinges on her being able to explain that to her parents, and/or grabbing her single chance at (a) life.

If she is unable to do this then she's simply not marriage material, and Darwin will have his way.

Edited June 7, 2007 by chanchao

[meadish_sweetball]

My suggestion: Let them sort our their own lives.

[Dakhar]

I believe the odss of contracting HIV in a HIGH RISK situation is 1:2000. Made A mistake.... more than likely many mistakes. Not to mention, why did she test in the first place? What spurred this on? Seems to me, whe just recently engaged in high risk behavoir, & got tested. Now if this is the case, this means she is cheating on the guy.

If this guy is negative, he needs to run for the hills. Sorry, but that is the nature of HIV. As I said before, with HIV, you die alone. She should be commended, at least she told the guy.

BP? First of all like I said, he needs to run, but why would a person pay money to recieve tons of pain. Because ultimatley this is what it is going to lead to. Her parents should be paying someone to take her, more than anything.

Yes, I sound cruel, but this is the nature of the beast.

[rgs2001uk]

Fellow TVers.

I COULD take this one, but it could get messy. I implore someone else to reply first.

bendix

i am with you on this one, dont waste your breath.

i tend not to let these type of posts bother me anymore.

you can take a horse to water, but you cant make it piss in it.

[chanchao]

I believe the odss of contracting HIV in a HIGH RISK situation is 1:2000. Made A mistake.... more than likely many mistakes. Not to mention, why did she test in the first place? What spurred this on? Seems to me, whe just recently engaged in high risk behavoir, & got tested. Now if this is the case, this means she is cheating on the guy.

Err, when you're female, every kind of unprotected sex is high risk. The 1:2000 figure is most likely for males, but even at those odds you still get people contracting hiv, that's the nature of odds, some people are the 1 in front and not in the 2000 behind the dots.

[bendix]

hey khemosabi . .

Is this one of those posts similar to the visits to the doctors when the patients talks about 'this friend' who has an embarassing rash?

Just curious. Come on. Don't be shy . .

[Dakhar]

I think the odds apply both ways, but you are right about the odds being the first on on the top of the deck....

But me being a sceptic, I doubt the story.

[November Rain]

Fellow TVers.

I COULD take this one, but it could get messy. I implore someone else to reply first.

Naaah, you're on your own on this one, Bendix. Look forward to hearing your (as always) sage advice...

[a2396]

wow!! Dowry (Extorsion money) & HIV positive status all in one post topic. This has to be a first. I am sure I don't want to reiterate my my previous positive comments regarding sin-sot, or whatever it is. As for the HIV part of the story, it would be interesting to explain the details of what led up to getting this delicate information out in the open & what is the lady's reaction to this situation. What is her desire/intention as to how to proceed with romantic life????

[khemosabi]

This post is true, and I'll be truthful with everyone. You can change the he and him to I, for it is my GF. I just thought it best to post the way I did.

But, what do I have to hide. I'm not ashamed to say: I'm willing to still take her- Because, I love her.

She caught HIV, from someone before we even meet. Not long after that she became sick for awhile, and went to the doctor.

After infection by the HIV virus, the infected person usually experiences flu-like symptoms from 2 to 12 weeks after infection. These symptoms are generally: fever headache fatigue malaise decreased appetite and nausea swollen lymph glands muscular stiffness or aching (myalgia) a skin rash, usually flat to slightly raised (maculopapular) These symptoms may last from a few days to two weeks, and then subside.

In Thailand, the primary means of transmission of HIV is by heterosexual sex, overwhelmingly HIV subtype E.

Using mathematical modeling, researchers estimated that the probability of female-to-male HIV-1 transmission per sexual contact was approximately 1 in 30 to 50 contacts; previous estimates for HIV-1 subtype B were estimated at 1 in 500 to 1000 contacts. ( http://www.thailandguru.com/health-hiv.html )

I have heard that in fact subtype E transmission risk per episode are 1 in 30 to 1 in 50 , while subtype B is around a risk factor per episode of 1 in 1000.

( http://www.medhelp.org/forums/STD/messages/2260.html )

But, what about the BP? Surely they won't expect it now.

[chinthee]

This post is true, and I'll be truthful with everyone. You can change the he and him to I, for it is my GF. I just thought it best to post the way I did.

But, what do I have to hide. I'm not ashamed to say: I'm willing to still take her- Because, I love her.

She caught HIV, from someone before we even meet. Not long after that she became sick for awhile, and went to the doctor.

After infection by the HIV virus, the infected person usually experiences flu-like symptoms from 2 to 12 weeks after infection. These symptoms are generally: fever headache fatigue malaise decreased appetite and nausea swollen lymph glands muscular stiffness or aching (myalgia) a skin rash, usually flat to slightly raised (maculopapular) These symptoms may last from a few days to two weeks, and then subside.

In Thailand, the primary means of transmission of HIV is by heterosexual sex, overwhelmingly HIV subtype E.

Using mathematical modeling, researchers estimated that the probability of female-to-male HIV-1 transmission per sexual contact was approximately 1 in 30 to 50 contacts; previous estimates for HIV-1 subtype B were estimated at 1 in 500 to 1000 contacts. ( http://www.thailandguru.com/health-hiv.html )

I have heard that in fact subtype E transmission risk per episode are 1 in 30 to 1 in 50 , while subtype B is around a risk factor per episode of 1 in 1000.

( http://www.medhelp.org/forums/STD/messages/2260.html )

But, what about the BP? Surely they won't expect it now.

My sincere best wishes to you then. Naturally we are all skeptical on subjects of this nature. Regarding the sinsot (BP) I suggest you have your bride tell the mother that you have suffered some financial setbacks and that you propose to pay in instalments. maybe negotiate annual payments or something. The family generally likes to show this off up front though. As an aside, my Thai wife and her mother never wanted this sinsot from me, as they understood a foreigner didn't have the same customs. However, this is not a usual case. As far as gross amount, from the info you gave, 200 tops., maybe 100 in gross amount.

[khemosabi]

wow!! Dowry (Extorsion money) & HIV positive status all in one post topic. This has to be a first. I am sure I don't want to reiterate my my previous positive comments regarding sin-sot, or whatever it is. As for the HIV part of the story, it would be interesting to explain the details of what led up to getting this delicate information out in the open & what is the lady's reaction to this situation. What is her desire/intention as to how to proceed with romantic life????

Her romantic life is that she wants to be with me, but says I should find someone else which I will not do.

[Mid]

doubt that a Thai would pay any sinsod in this situation ,

a face saving way maybe to show an amount which is to be returned immediately .

[mikalmus]

Sorry to hear that is the situation you are in but you need to take a step back. You need to forget the different cultures and see that if you two love each other and want to get married that is a decision between the two of you, nobody else should have an input. Tell your gf that you don't want to pay any money (careful not to make her feel like damaged goods) and that she should tell her parents, if she wants to marry you, she will marry you.

[a2396]

Unless you are a wealthy man and don't mind dropping a few hundred thousand bht, I would tell the salivating parents that you will be incurring some rather sizable costs in the future looking after your wife's health care needs.

[chanchao]

> But, what about the BP? Surely they won't expect it now.

Re-read my post #5 above. It's the straightest advice you're going to get today, like it or not.

[leisurely]

Couldn't you just go to the bank and ask for one of those big promotional cheques (the sort you used to see being presented to pools winners). That way every one keeps face - sort of and you don't end up out of pocket. Alternatively, a cheque that will never be cashed?

[torito]

khemosabi for sure she would not want to dissapoint her parents and perhaps you can negotiate the money. Somehow she should makes an effect to help you with that.

Aids is much more manageable now (if she gets it)..wish you the best of luck.

[jdinasia]

Pay what you will .... up to you. What would a Thai pay in this situation? My money would be on 0!

[onzestan]

OK I'll have a go at it.

Good of you to admit that it's not a friend but you that this topic is about.

But you have however started off on the wrong foot, and then you cannot blame us for having some negativity about this whole story.

Also seems to me that you are more worried over the dowry (or whatever) than about your physical and mental health, because believe me I have known a couple of friends with aids, it's not a walk in the park.

You must first ask yourself if you are up to being there for her for the rest of her natural life, and that you are not having misplaced compassion for her situation, because that might backfire in the most cruel way.

Anyway there's only one person that can answer your questions and that's you.

Be careful man.

my opinion for what it's worth.

good luck

Stan

[lannarebirth]

Sorry to hear that is the situation you are in but you need to take a step back. You need to forget the different cultures and see that if you two love each other and want to get married that is a decision between the two of you, nobody else should have an input. Tell your gf that you don't want to pay any money (careful not to make her feel like damaged goods) and that she should tell her parents, if she wants to marry you, she will marry you.

In general I agree with this tact. Rather than saying that you don't want to pay any money I would say you need to save the money for future medical expenses which will undoubtedly come. If your gf cannot face up to her parents either to tell her her medical status or to cutoff the sinsit mooching, perhaps she could have one of her sisters share the news of her affliction with the parents and prevail on them to back off with their selfish demands. If she cannot do that, then your marriage will have greater problems than just her HIV status.

Edited June 7, 2007 by lannarebirth

[Dakhar]

Wow, so sad, really sad.

If were I, I would move on. Maybe that makes me a wee little man.... but I would move on.

Sinsod, out of the question.

I hope you are getting yourself checked out. I am sure you know you have a long 3 month wait ahead of you. You can have a PCR test done, if you do not want to wait & if you trust the results. They are known for more false positives then they are false negatives. They run around 5K baht, that is ok though, you can just detuct that from the sinsod....

Kimosabi, I think we all have moments when we have a true test, and the choice we make at that moment will determine forever. You are at that point. Aint no way I would marry this person.... no way.

Your situation is a sobering one....

[Phil Conners]

Interesting dilemma, let's for argument's sake assume it's genuine: The main problem is her inability to confront her parents and think about herself for a minute here.

Fix just that and everything will fall into place, however it is the thing that's most hard fix.

She must realize that she currently has ONE opportunity at a loving husband and be a family, and ironically this is also the same single opportunity her parents have of a situation where their daughter can provide benefits for them in the years to come. Miss this one opportunity and her life is over. It all hinges on her being able to explain that to her parents, and/or grabbing her single chance at (a) life.

If she is unable to do this then she's simply not marriage material, and Darwin will have his way.

Agree 100%.

Having said that, personally I would move on but as they say, up to you.

[chevykanteve]

Damaged goods usually warrant a discount.

Soundman.

Man, that is COLD! But nonetheless, true.

[mellow1]

Personally,I don't think you should pay anything at all.Not because she has HIV,but because you are not buying a slave.Just because others expect you to follow their culture,you don't have to.You come from a different culture and it's to be respected as well.Maybe if you put it this way to the girl ,it will work out for you and her.This probably won't go over well with the parents.They obviously take you for a complete idiot by asking for 1 million and you should stiff them.Even if you don't agree with the above principle,(not buying a slave)the fact that they tried to get over on you in such a rough way,deserves a good screwing.

As for loving this woman,it's your personal feelings,maybe I lack character,sympathy or compassion.But I know that I wouldn't embark on the journey your going on.Please,do not bring any children into this world,and doom them to this suffrage.I wish you the best of luck. mellow1

[lingling]

Her parents do not know about her having HIV, only him and her 2 sisters.

Are the sisters infected? No? Hittable? If so, throw in one or both as 'warranty replacement'.