US$ to Thai ฿. Thai banks and Schwab Visa

[jwdub12]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Ya, I was surprised by the OP's mention of having a $500 limit on his Schwab debit card.

 

Most Schwab account holders, domestic U.S. based accounts, that I've known typically have the $1000 limit you mention here...

 

 

I believe that the $500 limit is per transaction. So the OP can do 2 $500 transactions totaling $1000 per day.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

28 minutes ago, jwdub12 said:

I believe that the $500 limit is per transaction. So the OP can do 2 $500 transactions totaling $1000 per day.

I can withdraw up to $1000 per transaction.

 

[Pib]

Yea, I've always (years and years) been able to do up to $1000 per transaction with my Schwab debit card (platinum).  Schwab also use to issue a standard debit card (non-platinum) where the per transaction limit was $500....don't know if they still issue a standard debit card.

[gargamon]

15 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

It was EXACTLY 1%? What/who is the card issuer, for the Visa card and the MC card? My guess is that they, and not Visa, added this fee, which is likely documented in the terms and conditions of your card.

Yes, I believe it was very close to 1%. The MC atm was from capitalone and the visa one was from chime. No foreign transaction fee for either. Over the years others have also noted the higher visa rates...

[mtls2005]

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's the second of the two options you mention above, simply a debit transaction against the checking account via the associated VISA debit card.

 

 

I sort of assumed that, although others here do get Cash Advances off a credit card, and pay it off immediately before it accrues a single day's interest. 

 

But the OP did say that Schwab classified the transaction as a Cash Advance, instead of a withdrawal. That may be down to Schwab's system? So that prompted my question.

 

 

On 12/27/2021 at 10:08 PM, gamb00ler said:

The entry in my Schwab account history says: "12/27/2021 as of 12/23/2021.....Visa Cash Advance.....BBL.branch-name.SUB.BCHIANGMAI...TH.....$xxxxxx"

 

[mtls2005]

7 hours ago, gargamon said:

the visa one was from chime

Yeah, my guess - the Chime website is not exactly revealing as they seem to slough the extra fee off on Visa or MC - is that this is down to Chime's agreement with Visa.

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

I sort of assumed that, although others here do get Cash Advances off a credit card, and pay it off immediately before it accrues a single day's interest. 

 

Schwab used to offer a pretty good VISA credit card some years ago, but then they discontinued it... And these days, AFAIK, their only credit card offerings are Amex branded and I believe those carry Amex's standard foreign currency conversion charges. So non-starters for many here.

 

[mtls2005]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Schwab used to offer a pretty good VISA credit card some years ago

This might explain the continued usage of "Cash Advance"?

 

I forgot Schwab didn't offer a Visa or MC credit card any longer, even though I've been on their site quite often.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by mtls2005

[siam dreamers]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:51 AM, gamb00ler said:

 

I think you can open an International account with Schwab using a Thai address.  I do think they have a minimum balance requirement of 10K $USD.  But I heard that a long time ago so it could be outdated.  The Schwab website is substantial and will likely answer your questions better than I.

 

I have a US based brokerage account so the limits I give may be specific to it.

The limit for ATM withdrawal is $500 per withdrawal.  There are more limits such as per day but I didn't record them.  The limit for withdrawal at the bank counter is 15K $US per day.  There is no foreign transaction fee and all ATM fees are reimbursed at the time the transaction is processed.

 

Personally I maintain a mailing address in USA that I use for Schwab and other institutions.

BE warned that when you open a Schwab International account with a Thai address your Schwab Brokerage account no longer be eligible to have have beneficiaries. It is a major hassle for your heirs to receive their funds. This is a summery of the process for your heirs to get your money from the international accounts. Even though my wife is joint owner on one account she can only get %25 until she goes through this process to get the rest

 

How to claim money from Schwab

 

  Schwab will require the following documents for the Joint and beneficiary accounts.

 

      1.      Copy of Probate or Succession Document issued by the Court naming the Executor/ Administrator of the estate. This would be from thai court.

 

       2.     Copy of the Executor/ Administrator’s valid Passport

 

       3      *IRS Transfer Certificate*. which requres

 

1. Copies of the decedent's last will and testament along with any codicils. Please include English translations if in another language.
2. One copy of each death tax or inheritance tax return and any corrective statements filed with taxing authorities other than the United States. Please include English translations if in another language.
3. One copy of the decedent's death certificate. Please include English translation if in another language.
4. An affidavit, which is a written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other comparable local official. The affidavit may be in the form of a letter. It must be signed by the executor, administrator, or other personal representative of the estate and include all of the following items:
   1. The decedent's date and country of birth.
   2. The date of the decedent's naturalization as a United States citizen, or a statement that the decedent had never become a naturalized U.S. citizen.
   3. A list of all the decedent's United States assets in which the decedent had any interest at the date of death (whatever may be their legal situs for U.S. estate tax purposes) and their values at the decedent's date of death. For any U.S. bank or investment account, please include the account number.
   4. The decedent's citizenship and residence at the date of death.
   5. Whether any of the decedent's U.S. bank accounts were used in connection with a trade or business in the United States.

 

If any of the above-listed items are not available, include a statement to explain why.

The time frame for the IRS to process the affidavit and supporting documents is six to nine months from the time the IRS receives all necessary documentation.

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, siam dreamers said:

BE warned that when you open a Schwab International account with a Thai address your Schwab Brokerage account no longer be eligible to have have beneficiaries.

Might that also be an issue with other U.S.-based financial service companies?

 

 

[siam dreamers]

I am sure that Schwab is following US law when it comes to international accounts. My advice is stay away from the schwab international account and use a U.S, address.

 

Of course no one told us  about the no beneficiaries and we were advised to open a joint account. We learned the hard way it still does not work for easily passing along assets.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

This might explain the continued usage of "Cash Advance"?

 

I forgot Schwab didn't offer a Visa or MC credit card any longer, even though I've been on their site quite often.

I use several no foreign transaction fee debit cards frequently (like the Cap1 card) to get money.  When I go to a Thai bank to get the money using one of these debit card I use the terminology of "cash advance" when initiating the conversation with the person handing out the queue number or the bank rep doing the actual transaction  because I found I usually get the Deer-in-the-headlights look if saying I want to do a "counter withdrawal" and then I have to expand more of what I want to do and several times the rep finally says, "Oh, you want to do a cash advance."  But if I say "cash advance" there is immediate understanding of what I want to do.   So, when I go to the Thai bank to use the card I just say I want to do a cash advance.

 

Yes, the terminology of "cash advance" is incorrect when using a debit card and really applies when using a credit card. 

 

 

[gamb00ler]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

I use several no foreign transaction fee debit cards frequently (like the Cap1 card) to get money.  When I go to a Thai bank to get the money using one of these debit card I use the terminology of "cash advance" when initiating the conversation with the person handing out the queue number

So far, I've only used BKK bank.  SCB and Kasikorn don't offer the "cash advance" service.

 

What other Thai banks allow the debit card cash advance option for cash from the teller?

[Pib]

I use Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank.

[mtls2005]

39 minutes ago, Pib said:

I use several no foreign transaction fee debit cards frequently (like the Cap1 card) to get money. 

 

Can you share the list of no foreign transaction fee debit cards which you use?

 

Do these reimburse out-of-network and foreign ATM fees?

 

You need to have a Capital One 360 Checking account to get the Debit card, right?

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Can you share the list of no foreign transaction fee debit cards which you use?

 

Do these reimburse out-of-network and foreign ATM fees?

 

You need to have a Capital One 360 Checking account to get the Debit card, right?

 

 

I'd rather not broadcast a complete list of cards I use.  Cap1 does not reimburse out-of-network/foreign ATM fees....I only use the card for counter withdrawal at Thai banks.   Yes, the Cap1 debit card is linked to a checking acct.

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Can you share the list of no foreign transaction fee debit cards which you use?

Check out: https://upgradedpoints.com/finance/best-checking-accounts-without-international-atm-fees/

 

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

You need to have a Capital One 360 Checking account to get the Debit card, right?

That is how I interpreted their online information.  Also the website I gave above states:

 

If you have a Capital One 360 Checking® account, then you will benefit from no transaction fees for withdrawing cash abroad.

This is only applicable to Capital One 360 customers who set up a checking account online. If you set up a regular account with a physical branch, then you would incur foreign transaction fees on ATM withdrawals. There are no monthly service fees or minimum account balance requirements. You may still incur a flat usage fee from the issuing bank’s ATM, but for some customers, Capital One may reimburse up to $15 per statement month.

 

I found the online process fairly smooth to open a new Capital One 360 account.  I do use a US address for my US bank accounts.

[mtls2005]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

I'd rather not broadcast a complete list of cards I use. 

Wasn't looking for a complete list, just ATM debit cards with no foreign transaction fees. You made it sound like you had many such cards.

 

Can you throw us a bone? One more maybe? 

 

 

4 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Check out: https://upgradedpoints.com/finance/best-checking-accounts-without-international-atm-fees/

Yeah, that's not what we were talking about. Specifically...

 

7 hours ago, Pib said:

I use several no foreign transaction fee debit cards frequently (like the Cap1 card) to get money. 

 

[gamb00ler]

4 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Check out: https://upgradedpoints.com/finance/best-checking-accounts-without-international-atm-fees/

 

12 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Yeah, that's not what we were talking about. Specifically...

You must have read a different web page than the one I read.  On the page I referenced it gives the two debit cards that most of us know are free of foreign transaction fees.  It also lists a few other checking account/debit card options that if the customer meets the requirements, they can also avoid those fees.  Sorry that you had to read so much to find what you were asking for.

 

There isn't a plethora of debit cards with no transaction fees.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

38 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Wasn't looking for a complete list, just ATM debit cards with no foreign transaction fees. You made it sound like you had many such cards.

 

Can you throw us a bone? One more maybe? 

 

The list of available really NO fee accounts to use abroad really isn't that long these days....  Schwab, Fidelity and Capital One among them.

 

But then you get into what "no fee" really means. Ideally, you want a bank that does the following:

--doesn't charge a percentage foreign currency fee on foreign debit card use

--doesn't charge a flat fee for using any foreign/out of network ATMs.

--reimburses any ATM transaction fees charged by foreign banks.

 

Schwab and Fidelity are good because they're generally available to the public without any big restrictions. Cap One is good for not having a FCF, but not so good because they don't reimburse other banks' foreign ATM fees, which would encourage users to do counter withdrawals instead.

 

Then there are various smaller banks and credit unions that cover some of the check items above.... but sometimes may have eligibility or other restrictions.

 

For example, Service Federal Credit Union charges a 1% FCF on foreign debit card transactions, but will waive its own ATM fee and reimburse both their 1% FCF fee and the foreign bank's ATM fee up to varying levels ($15 or $30) per month IF you have a qualifying min $500 per month direct deposit with them. Also, their accounts are only open to people who have some past or present military affiliation, including having an immediate family member (including parent) who ever served.

 

" Direct deposit in your checking account of net pay includes but is not limited to payroll deposits, social security deposits, retirement payments, and other sources of net income. Direct deposit must total at least $500 per month to qualify."

 

https://servicecu.org/bank/checking/#everyday-checking

 

 

The State Department Federal Credit Union has similar kinds of offers available, though with them, you don't have to have a military affiliation, but you do have to go thru the pretty easy extra hoop of joining the American Consumer Council if you don't have any State Department affiliation.

 

If you do that....

 

 

https://www.sdfcu.org/checking

 

"**Advantage Checking. $2,000 Minimum checking account balance. Personal accounts only. Dividends calculated daily. Minimum $200 Direct Deposit monthly. Ten posted Debit Card transactions by close of business on last day of the month. Must be signed up for Online Banking and eStatements.

 

***Privilege Checking. $25,000 Minimum checking account balance. Personal accounts only. Dividends calculated daily. Minimum $200 Direct Deposit monthly. Must be signed up for Online Banking and eStatements."

 

There are some other similar smaller entities out there, but also with their own individual restrictions and conditions.

Edited April 27, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[gargamon]

14 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Yeah, my guess - the Chime website is not exactly revealing as they seem to slough the extra fee off on Visa or MC - is that this is down to Chime's agreement with Visa.

 

 

 

You sure look determined to justify that your visa ATM conversion rate is the best you can get. I have ACTUAL withdrawals that prove otherwise. Until you can do the same, please stop concocting reasons my ACTUAL withdrawal information is invalid. 

[gamb00ler]

9 hours ago, gargamon said:

You sure look determined to justify that your visa ATM conversion rate is the best you can get. I have ACTUAL withdrawals that prove otherwise. Until you can do the same, please stop concocting reasons my ACTUAL withdrawal information is invalid. 

As you stated earlier, your comparison was done years ago.  Current comparisons, backed up by ACTUAL results indicate Visa and MC are neck and neck on conversion rates.  Today's (Apr. 28,'22) show Visa rate = 34.250033 and MC rate = 34.2519712.  That's a 0.0057% difference.  Don't believe us....go test again.

[mtls2005]

 

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The list of available really NO fee accounts to use abroad really isn't that long these days....  Schwab, Fidelity and Capital One among them.

 

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But then you get into what "no fee" really means. Ideally, you want a bank that does the following:

 

I was simply looking for an ATM Visa Debit Card which had zero Foreign Transaction Fee. That is the fee for using it for purchases, or as is relevant to this thread, teller withdrawals. This isn't about ATM withdrawals, which for most who live here aren't really that relevant anyway.

 

15 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Sorry that you had to read so much to find what you were asking for.

Yeah, but it wasn't really what I was asking for. And, for the most part, people here just give recommendations and answer questions, rather than admonishments on whether we read the link or not.

 

Oh, I did read the linked article, but not all the responses. Even though the title is:  The 14 Best Checking Accounts To Avoid International ATM Withdrawal Fees.

 

 

[gamb00ler]

My 169K฿ "cash advance" transaction using CapitalOne Mastercard appears to have settled.  The US$ amount withdrawn has not changed since it first appeared on my account history.  The conversion rate remains as I stated in the first post about the transaction (33.81234).  That exchange rate is exactly as stated on the MC exchange rate website for the date of transaction.

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html

To use that page to get the ฿ per dollar takes an extra step.  I initially used that website incorrectly and got the rate for the conversion of THB to US$.  The correct steps are:

1) select THB in the From field or "Transaction Currency"

2) select USD in the To currency or "Your Card Currency"

3) enter the amount of ฿, I just 1,000

4) enter 0 for the Bank Fee

Then select the date of Transaction, if none chosen you will get the current day's rate

To get the ฿ per $ rate, use a calculator to calculate 1/rate (1/0.0291954 in the example)

or 34.25197 for today's rate.  For comparison the Visa rate today is 34.25.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by gamb00ler

[mtls2005]

25 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

The US$ amount withdrawn

was what amount?

 

$4,998.18?

 

26 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

For comparison the Visa rate today is 34.25.

I'm surprised the BBL TT rate is (right now) 34.30.

 

 

1 United States Dollar = 34.250034 Thai Baht

 

Currencies fluctuate every day. The rate shown is effective for transactions submitted to Visa on April 28, 2022, with a bank foreign transaction fee of 0.0%.

 

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

[gamb00ler]

16 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

I'm surprised the BBL TT rate is (right now) 34.30.

 

 

1 United States Dollar = 34.250034 Thai Baht

 

Currencies fluctuate every day. The rate shown is effective for transactions submitted to Visa on April 28, 2022, with a bank foreign transaction fee of 0.0%.

 

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

When the US$ is rising, those rates that adjust several times during the day can often exceed the Visa and MC rates which are set early AM Thai time and stay fixed for 24 hours.  The converse is true for a falling US$ and I sometimes use that fact to use to secure the short term local maxima for a conversion.

[cdemundo]

On 4/26/2022 at 6:07 PM, mtls2005 said:

 

I sort of assumed that, although others here do get Cash Advances off a credit card, and pay it off immediately before it accrues a single day's interest. 

 

But the OP did say that Schwab classified the transaction as a Cash Advance, instead of a withdrawal. That may be down to Schwab's system? So that prompted my question.

 

 

 

"I sort of assumed that, although others here do get Cash Advances off a credit card, and pay it off immediately before it accrues a single day's interest. "

 

I don't understand why person would do this.

Get a cash advance and pay it off immediately and what is the benefit?

 

[mtls2005]

2 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Get a cash advance and pay it off immediately and what is the benefit?

 

The benefit is you get THB cash paper money immediately, in large volumes, at the Visa or MC rate, without any fees, or accrued interest. Obviously you want to use a credit card which has no foreign transaction fee (often in the 1% ~ 3% range). Personally I've never done this as I don't need to, but if I did, I might transfer money to my credit card first, then take a cash advance. If I happened to take more - and I try not to - then I'd transfer that additional amount instantaneously. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, cdemundo said:

I don't understand why person would do this.

Get a cash advance and pay it off immediately and what is the benefit?

 

It's a way of getting funds from your U.S. account -- assuming you have the right kind of credit card -- and avoiding BOTH the 220b Thai bank ATM withdrawal fee on foreign cards AND being able to exceed the 20-30K baht per transaction withdrawal limits on Thai ATMs.

 

Not many U.S. bank or CU credit cards have the right features for this, and those are: 1. no foreign currency fee; and 2. no flat fee or percentage of withdrawal fee on cash advances.  But if you have a credit card like that, they're great to use here for bank counter withdrawals.

 

You just walk into your Thai bank branch with the suitable U.S. credit card, tell them you want a cash advance for X amount of baht, they'll typically swipe your card thru a card machine and do a debit for the amount just like if you were making a purchase, and then hand over the baht to you.

 

I don't think Thai banks have a particular limit on the amount of that kind of transaction, or if they do, it's likely high enough to not usually matter. Then when you get back home, just do an immediate payment to your credit card account for whatever amount was debited, and you're done. No fees by the Thai bank and no fees by your U.S. card issuer, except for perhaps a very tiny amount of interest.

 

The issue with all this, however, is most U.S. bank issued credit cards, especially those from the larger mega banks, typically have foreign currency conversion fees of 3% or more, and often even higher fees associated with cash advances, like $10 per advance or 4% of the amount, whichever is greater. And oftentimes, the card issuer will have BOTH of those fees, so you'll really get reamed by their fees...  unless you have a credit card that doesn't charge them.

 

 

 

[cdemundo]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's a way of getting funds from your U.S. account -- assuming you have the right kind of credit card -- and avoiding BOTH the 220b Thai bank ATM withdrawal fee on foreign cards AND being able to exceed the 20-30K baht per transaction withdrawal limits on Thai ATMs.

 

Not many U.S. bank or CU credit cards have the right features for this, and those are: 1. no foreign currency fee; and 2. no flat fee or percentage of withdrawal fee on cash advances.  But if you have a credit card like that, they're great to use here for bank counter withdrawals.

 

You just walk into your Thai bank branch with the suitable U.S. credit card, tell them you want a cash advance for X amount of baht, they'll typically swipe your card thru a card machine and do a debit for the amount just like if you were making a purchase, and then hand over the baht to you.

 

I don't think Thai banks have a particular limit on the amount of that kind of transaction, or if they do, it's likely high enough to not usually matter. Then when you get back home, just do an immediate payment to your credit card account for whatever amount was debited, and you're done. No fees by the Thai bank and no fees by your U.S. card issuer, except for perhaps a very tiny amount of interest.

 

The issue with all this, however, is most U.S. bank issued credit cards, especially those from the larger mega banks, typically have foreign currency conversion fees of 3% or more, and often even higher fees associated with cash advances, like $10 per advance or 4% of the amount, whichever is greater. And oftentimes, the card issuer will have BOTH of those fees, so you'll really get reamed by their fees...  unless you have a credit card that doesn't charge them.

 

 

 

So I have CC from Penfed CU that has no foreign transaction fee and no cash advance fee.

So I would go in to a Thai bank and get a cash advance, then pay off immediately,

Does it have to be a Thai bank where I have an account?