A Sad Story About A Very Elderly, Lonely, Englishman.

[tijnebijn]

Regardless of all opinions and intentions on this thread, Mobi's post did at least swing the focus on an inescapable fact:

There is insufficient regard or care for this particular faction of society which is not only on the increase but is also given too little attention.

Whatever your altruistic or other motivation, wherever you are, this problem is not going to go away.

Some or all of you will be a part of it sooner or later.

I haven't offered up any suggestions for a solution, as many have, except to say that we, the system, society should all have more sense of responsibility for our aged when they are no longer able to take care of themselves.

It's fair to say that whatever brought the old guy to LOS and kept him there, the only thing he couldn't have planned for was that one day he'd find himself old and in need.

This poster ,I think,put it right on the spot!You never know how any life goes,ofcourse you would be better of having some savings,but some people just do not have or get the chances that some posters point out.To compare anybodys life with your own,especially when you don't know the hardships of life yourself,is very harsh and unwise.To get a better picture of the world and why people are so different ,everybody should try to look things at a bigger picture,then you will get a surprise and find out that real happiness is not what it seems at our point of view right now,some never get it!There could be many reasons why his man does not want to live the life in his homecountry,he probably thinks;" better hardship then ever have to face the life I had and disgust(for whatever reason) back home again."he may have a point ,I understand that,me too do not like it in particular back home,why?Hard to say ,just do not fit in donot feel at my place like I feel in Asia.The old bagger surely could have feelings like that,but makes me realise for myself I should come up with something for my older days,although it will not be that much,after all I enjoy living in Thailand and am not building any securitypension while I am abroad.

My point is that the old bagger probably feels better with the idea dying there where he feels at his place,he just did not think when he was younger he could get this old ,and get these problems.But I reckon that he had a much better life then many ever had in their dreams back home,I mean he lived his life,so what?Is this a bad thing to do?I not think so.Who is who to say what is good or bad anyway?.....If I could help him I would,but I can't,maybe one of the farmer guys,who have plenty of place an find him a nice garden to make some flowers,rather then walking through the sois with bargirls,but heh if he enjoys that,fine by me.I would prefer the first though at his age.

[qwertz]

Torito, like Mobi, I feel for these people.

It's a statistical fact that people are living longer.

Nobody seems to care over much about the quality of that longer life.

Or even if it's worth the trouble of living longer.

Some of us do at least reflect on this; I suspect that's what prompted the OP to think aloud.

Tijnebin, thanks for the thoughtful addendum.

Edited June 10, 2007 by qwertz

[tijnebijn]

I agree absolutely what qwertz try to point out.Mobi seems to have a heart on the good place.I like it when people do not generalise everybody into the world they only know themselves,that is called short sightness isn't it?

[torito]

Torito, like Mobi, I feel for these people.

It's a statistical fact that people are living longer.

Nobody seems to care over much about the quality of that longer life.

Or even if it's worth the trouble of living longer.

Some of us do at least reflect on this; I suspect that's what prompted the OP to think aloud.

As usual you make the gentleman and sensitive note

Though I am not contributing with any solution, I price the motivation and drive of those who intend to do something like mobi, and I would not dare to jeopardize his intentions, even if I agree or not with his objectives.

This is a little bit out of the topic, but the fact is that today medicine advances prolongues life beyond need and even it makes the dying process endless. This issues will not go away.

[Youbloodybeauty]

This is a little bit out of the topic, but the fact is that today medicine advances prolongues life beyond need and even it makes the dying process endless. This issues will not go away.

torinto,

Your point reminded me of a very interesting and recent program.

Why should we have to suffer ten, fifteen, twenty years before we die? The whole aim of science is to minimise human suffering.

Humans are now dealing with a situation that we’ve never dealt with before. We have been so successful in resolving causes of deaths in earlier years that we have revealed a process that we call ageing that at least on an evolutionary scale we were never expected to see in the first place. It’s hard to say whether that’s a benefit or not.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1938423.htm

Check out the transcript.

Rgds YBB

[GuestHouse]

Many of the respondents here are making the same assumption, that the Old Guy is 'making choices', disregarding that he may not be able to make choices because of a whole range of problems that come with old age, emotional, mental and physical.

If he is indeed failing in mind, emotional strength and general health then this betrays the callous argument that he deserves the rewards and punishments of his own actions/folly collapses if he is not, the argument is false where he has no ability to choose.

This brings me back to my argument that those who neglect the plight of the aged foreigners in Thailand who do face problems of dementia, ill health and become victims merely because of their vulnerability are in truth denying what may very well be their own personal future.

--

And please, in the rush to self congratulation, don't confuse largess with charity.

[chevykanteve]

[

This is a vintage Bendixian response in terms of cold heartlessness. Said coldness approaches zero degrees Kelvin. None of the characters portrayed by Charles Dickens even begin to approach your level of utter contemptness for the less-advantaged. When, dear Bendix, will the spirit of Christmas (giving, sympathy ... et al) affect your soul in some positive manner? Shame, and shame again!

Incidentally, old boy, it's not that I totally disagree with you.... It's just that you are at times rather direct in expressing your opinions -- I should think much more so than is necessary. Swat a fly with a fly-swat (or a copy of The Times), not with a backhoe! Either way that insect will die. Be discrete, old fellow! I hope you don't take umbrage at these humble words of advice.

Before damning me, why don't you read my other posts on this thread? I prefer to give practical advice, not offer faux tears for someone i've never met and - rightly or wrongly - has brought his misfortune on himself. I empathise with the old guy, but I don't sympathise because it is a misfortune which he seems to have brought on himself, as a relatively solvent western guy who has choices, unlike the vast majority of the poor in Thailand. That he doesnt want to avail himself of that choice is up to him.

Having said that I have also offered to help if I can. Again, read my posts.

If you would like to gauge the 'level of my contemptness [sic]' for the less-advantaged, perhaps you would like to talk to the kids of the school just outside Ubon for whom I recently bought six computers and a considerable amount of sporting equipment, and for whom I'm about to donate a library.

Or perhaps you'd like to talk to the steering committee of a well-known charity working for lots of underprivileged (poor, blind and handicapped) for whom I'm negotiating a 2 million baht contribution among several western oriented companies here in Bangkok.

I choose the causes I help with, and the basis I choose is that the people in those dire situations are there for NO SELF-INFLICTED reasons.

What an entertaining response! Thank you, Bendix. And yes, you may have the last word. Incidentally, I love your avatar: that man was indeed a sincere and humane chap! And good show concerning the donated jump-ropes and..... Bibles????

[tijnebijn]

[

This is a vintage Bendixian response in terms of cold heartlessness. Said coldness approaches zero degrees Kelvin. None of the characters portrayed by Charles Dickens even begin to approach your level of utter contemptness for the less-advantaged. When, dear Bendix, will the spirit of Christmas (giving, sympathy ... et al) affect your soul in some positive manner? Shame, and shame again!

Incidentally, old boy, it's not that I totally disagree with you.... It's just that you are at times rather direct in expressing your opinions -- I should think much more so than is necessary. Swat a fly with a fly-swat (or a copy of The Times), not with a backhoe! Either way that insect will die. Be discrete, old fellow! I hope you don't take umbrage at these humble words of advice.

Before damning me, why don't you read my other posts on this thread? I prefer to give practical advice, not offer faux tears for someone i've never met and - rightly or wrongly - has brought his misfortune on himself. I empathise with the old guy, but I don't sympathise because it is a misfortune which he seems to have brought on himself, as a relatively solvent western guy who has choices, unlike the vast majority of the poor in Thailand. That he doesnt want to avail himself of that choice is up to him.

Having said that I have also offered to help if I can. Again, read my posts.

If you would like to gauge the 'level of my contemptness [sic]' for the less-advantaged, perhaps you would like to talk to the kids of the school just outside Ubon for whom I recently bought six computers and a considerable amount of sporting equipment, and for whom I'm about to donate a library.

Or perhaps you'd like to talk to the steering committee of a well-known charity working for lots of underprivileged (poor, blind and handicapped) for whom I'm negotiating a 2 million baht contribution among several western oriented companies here in Bangkok.

I choose the causes I help with, and the basis I choose is that the people in those dire situations are there for NO SELF-INFLICTED reasons.

What an entertaining response! Thank you, Bendix. And yes, you may have the last word. Incidentally, I love your avatar: that man was indeed a sincere and humane chap! And good show concerning the donated jump-ropes and..... Bibles????

In thai they have a saying,about putting the gold paper in the back of the buddha instead of infront.When putting it on the back it means doing it in a manner that you do not have the need for people to 'know'how a good man you are.To take it up front are the people who do it for the prestige,the face thing',very popular with Thai and also a good example for many farang.The thing is that this saying is meant for knowing to do good (or give something to the buddha here)is enough ,not for the need the whole world to see what you did!Makes it more powerful and meaningful.......If you get the picture,sometimes a little is more worth then many.

[Pink Mist]

[

This is a vintage Bendixian response in terms of cold heartlessness. Said coldness approaches zero degrees Kelvin. None of the characters portrayed by Charles Dickens even begin to approach your level of utter contemptness for the less-advantaged. When, dear Bendix, will the spirit of Christmas (giving, sympathy ... et al) affect your soul in some positive manner? Shame, and shame again!

Incidentally, old boy, it's not that I totally disagree with you.... It's just that you are at times rather direct in expressing your opinions -- I should think much more so than is necessary. Swat a fly with a fly-swat (or a copy of The Times), not with a backhoe! Either way that insect will die. Be discrete, old fellow! I hope you don't take umbrage at these humble words of advice.

Before damning me, why don't you read my other posts on this thread? I prefer to give practical advice, not offer faux tears for someone i've never met and - rightly or wrongly - has brought his misfortune on himself. I empathise with the old guy, but I don't sympathise because it is a misfortune which he seems to have brought on himself, as a relatively solvent western guy who has choices, unlike the vast majority of the poor in Thailand. That he doesnt want to avail himself of that choice is up to him.

Having said that I have also offered to help if I can. Again, read my posts.

If you would like to gauge the 'level of my contemptness [sic]' for the less-advantaged, perhaps you would like to talk to the kids of the school just outside Ubon for whom I recently bought six computers and a considerable amount of sporting equipment, and for whom I'm about to donate a library.

Or perhaps you'd like to talk to the steering committee of a well-known charity working for lots of underprivileged (poor, blind and handicapped) for whom I'm negotiating a 2 million baht contribution among several western oriented companies here in Bangkok.

I choose the causes I help with, and the basis I choose is that the people in those dire situations are there for NO SELF-INFLICTED reasons.

What an entertaining response! Thank you, Bendix. And yes, you may have the last word. Incidentally, I love your avatar: that man was indeed a sincere and humane chap! And good show concerning the donated jump-ropes and..... Bibles????

In thai they have a saying,about putting the gold paper in the back of the buddha instead of infront.When putting it on the back it means doing it in a manner that you do not have the need for people to 'know'how a good man you are.To take it up front are the people who do it for the prestige,the face thing',very popular with Thai and also a good example for many farang.The thing is that this saying is meant for knowing to do good (or give something to the buddha here)is enough ,not for the need the whole world to see what you did!Makes it more powerful and meaningful.......If you get the picture,sometimes a little is more worth then many.

that makes a lot of sense, good post

[chevykanteve]

In thai they have a saying,about putting the gold paper in the back of the buddha instead of infront.When putting it on the back it means doing it in a manner that you do not have the need for people to 'know'how a good man you are.To take it up front are the people who do it for the prestige,the face thing',very popular with Thai and also a good example for many farang.The thing is that this saying is meant for knowing to do good (or give something to the buddha here)is enough ,not for the need the whole world to see what you did!Makes it more powerful and meaningful.......If you get the picture,sometimes a little is more worth then many.

You've lost me. Is this anything like putting the horse before the cart? I'm not making fun; I simply don't understand what you're saying. Enlighten me (so to speak)!

[bendix]

I think he's trying to say it's better to do good deeds privately, than publicly. Yes, very good advice, particularly on an internet forum when we are all anonymous :-)

[distortedlink]

What a load of old crap.

Some ole duffer down on his luck but can afford to pay 7000 baht per month for a house keeper and has no takers, dont believe it.

One of my 80 year old friends in Chiang Mai put the word round that he required a live in house keeper and was willing to pay 6000 baht a month. they were almost crashing his door in for the job.

Why is he here in the first place?

Best thing, do what they done with duffers in olden times, leave in the jungle and let nature take it`s course.

[uptou]

whats happened to the long suffering mythical maid,is she still around?

[tijnebijn]

In thai they have a saying,about putting the gold paper in the back of the buddha instead of infront.When putting it on the back it means doing it in a manner that you do not have the need for people to 'know'how a good man you are.To take it up front are the people who do it for the prestige,the face thing',very popular with Thai and also a good example for many farang.The thing is that this saying is meant for knowing to do good (or give something to the buddha here)is enough ,not for the need the whole world to see what you did!Makes it more powerful and meaningful.......If you get the picture,sometimes a little is more worth then many.

You've lost me. Is this anything like putting the horse before the cart? I'm not making fun; I simply don't understand what you're saying. Enlighten me (so to speak)!

Sorry to hear that,I actually write this to support what you were saying allready!Its a thai saying what I think some posters in particular,not you ,should consider in the way they express themselves and the meaning of their actions.The written says alot about the discussion going one here and it is based on thai wisdom,just try to figure it out what it in depth means......

[torito]

I think he's trying to say it's better to do good deeds privately, than publicly. Yes, very good advice, particularly on an internet forum when we are all anonymous :-)

No he is not saying that!.....it is very easy to understand what he refers to. You are not just negative and egotistic bendix, but destructive when things do not go your way .

What the OP is trying to do in here is attempting find some assistance among the farang and TV community, becuase he cannot help by himself other than this way. I think this forum is a good venue, and it may find some people and/or ideas to help the cause.

[endure]

Can we stop the personal bickering please.

[endure]

I asked you to stop the personal bickering and insults. I won't ask again - next one gets a holiday.

[bendix]

I think he's trying to say it's better to do good deeds privately, than publicly. Yes, very good advice, particularly on an internet forum when we are all anonymous :-)

No he is not saying that!.....it is very easy to understand what he refers to. You are not just negative and egotistic bendix, but destructive when things do not go your way .

What the OP is trying to do in here is attempting find some assistance among the farang and TV community, becuase he cannot help by himself other than this way. I think this forum is a good venue, and it may find some people and/or ideas to help the cause.

Oh really? Sorry, I must have misunderstood his meaning. Mea culpa.

Now, for the third time, as fascinating as I find me, I'm sure other members don't, so let's try to get back to Mobi and his old acquaintance.

I've had my say and can think of nothing meaningful to add.

[Robski]

Why don't you just shut the thread? It's a recipe for disaster and nothing constructive is coming from it.

Why get all worked up and perhaps get a holiday over some old guy that nobody knows or has the ability to help?

[Mid]

nothing constructive is coming from it.

disagree mate ,

the suggestion for a party is always constructive .

[Youbloodybeauty]

Why don't you just shut the thread? It's a recipe for disaster and nothing constructive is coming from it.

Why get all worked up and perhaps get a holiday over some old guy that nobody knows or has the ability to help?

LOL "It's a recipe for disaster" Yep getting old is for sure

I've read plenty of interesting posts here, the 'ol man could be any ageing TV dude.

Edited June 10, 2007 by Youbloodybeauty

[tijnebijn]

Maybe the OP could introduse him to thaivisa,so the old baggar will have the oppertunity to make some new friends?

Or come to one of the thaivisa meetings?I mean no matter what kind of situation the man is in,when we see a guy who is 80 years old,I'm sure we all feel a bit pitty for him and at least give him the night of the year!And maybe that one (more fortunate member)can help him with something more.It is just a thought,after all we all know him a little now,maybe a nice suggestion!

[tijnebijn]

nothing constructive is coming from it.

disagree mate ,

the suggestion for a party is always constructive .

Is it allready suggested by someone?Allright then lets get it rolling !

[ritaski]

I also knew a man in this situation he is 66years old and looked 80 ( I am in the Canaries )...he had no money but owned his house...he could walk only with a stick and he was asking around the bars for spare food and scraps. I got a hold of him and asked why he didnt go back to the UK ...he had no family that would speak to him he said and also eventually told me that he had got away 20 years ago with mucho VAT money...he even had a Rolls Royce . Times changed .his wife disappeared with the money and he was left begging with no water or electric in his house. I found his estranged son in the UK ..who didnt really want to know but eventually the guilt got the better of him and we got him on a flight and his son contacted the Social Services who stepped in .... the change in him is incredible. he came back to visit us and we didnt recognise him...he was actually smiling. Tourists here always say that they wish they had the bottle to leave the UK...but it seems we always need it in the end

[gburns57au]

Tourists here always say that they wish they had the bottle to leave the UK...but it seems we always need it in the end

Didnt you mean....

Tourists here always say that they wish they had to leave the bottle in the UK...but it seems we always need it in the end

Edited June 10, 2007 by gburns57au

[endure]

If he popped back to the UK for a while he'd be entitled to the current single pension which is a minimum of £87.30 a week.

I stand to be corrected on this, but i really think there is a mis-conception about all this.

I would be totally amazed, if this guy turns up at Heathrow, throws himself at the Mercy of the social services, and within a few weeks his pension is restored and he can jump on a plane back to Thailand.

Here's a quote from the Pension Service website. It did take a bit of digging to find but I'm sure it wasn't hidden away on purpose. I note the 'while you are in the UK' bit but I don't think they can downgrade your pension once they've put it up. He could spend up to 90? days in the UK without losing whatever tax-free status he has and then return to Thailand having doubled+ his pension.

"Benefits on return to UK

Please tell us if you are returning to the UK so that we can consider whether anything needs to be done about your benefit rights.

"If you are getting a UK State Pension or bereavement benefit and were living in a country where annual increases are not payable, you will receive the increased rate while you are in the UK. You must tell us within one month of your return to receive the increased rate from the earliest possible date."

[LinkPopularity]

Torito,

chill out, man, if that was Bendix intentions he would be more like you in his comments, meaning only trying to be good by pointing out the bad in others, while not doing anything yourself ... that's what you do !

I remain disgusted by the fact that all the goodies here only identify themselves with the old man, because it could be them some day, while not giving a sh!t about the maid to be.

she's suposed to accept her faith, but not the old men ?

blatant racism !

Racism? What twaddle!

I'm British & I'm white & I've worked as a nurse in a geriatric ward. Yes, it is a hard job, very often unpleasant & occasionally rewarding. My mum & sister have both worked as care assistants in an old people's home in UK. We also looked after our grandfather, who had Alzheimers in our home. So, I know exactly what would be involved (worst case) in any hypothetical helper's job. I've done it. The only way race comes into this is that any helper would have to be a Thai, as no-one else would have a WP to do it.

So, let me get this straight, Link. Are you only sorry for this hypothetical girl? Or are you sorry for all geriatric nurses & care assistants, the world over? Should they all quit their jobs because they have to clean up after cantankerous old people, sometimes lacking their full mental facilities? In my job I was felt up & flashed regularly by old men who to put it politely, had lost a few of their marbles. I had food thrown at me, cleaned up after so many bouts of incontinence you wouldn't believe (some of the patients seemed to save it up until after you'd washed them & settled them in a nice, clean bed). I've been vomited on, abused verbally, kicked & hit - you name it, I've had it done. Do you feel sorry for me? Or my Mum or sibling, who could tell similar stories? On the offchance that you do (though I doubt it), I wouldn't bother - it was a job. We got paid (though not highly) for it & we went home to our own lives every night.

Now, you tell me, why I should feel sorry for someone that will be doing no more (probably a lot less, as this man doesn't sound that bad) than I have done myself? Just because they're Thai? Now, that's blatant racism!

don't take it so personal ...

it's not about the fact the she'll be atking care for an old man, it's just the fact that the goodies feel sorry for the old man, while he has other option, but expect any Thai to live with their faith ... being poor and not having any other option then doing cheap labor ...

where do you get it from that I was attacking in any way nurses ?

you should feel bad about the fact that most farang on this forum obviously consider themselves superior to Thais by definition ! the fact that they are totally unaware of their own approach aqnd attitude, doesn't change anything ...

so, basically ... chill out, you're just missing my point !

anyway, what is your point ?

[November Rain]

^^I'm afraid, in that case, I'm still missing your point. If you're not talking about the fact that we should feel sorry for a poor girl who has to do 'menial' work for a low wage (as many others do, in every country) then I have no idea what you're on about.

[j_cheung]

In thai they have a saying,about putting the gold paper in the back of the buddha instead of infront.When putting it on the back it means doing it in a manner that you do not have the need for people to 'know'how a good man you are.To take it up front are the people who do it for the prestige,the face thing',very popular with Thai and also a good example for many farang.The thing is that this saying is meant for knowing to do good (or give something to the buddha here)is enough ,not for the need the whole world to see what you did!Makes it more powerful and meaningful.......If you get the picture,sometimes a little is more worth then many.

These accusations & assumptions on the old & odd fellow is just really too much. If you wish to help, then do so else let him & the rest be ...

As a footnote, the above thai saying dovetails nicely with what the Christian "Good Book" says on helping others:

As he taught, Jesus said, "Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the market-places, and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honour at banquets ..."

Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny.

Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

-- Mark 12:38-39, 41-44

[endure]

As you folks seem unable to further the topic of this post without taking a pop at each other, it's now closed. Let's hope the subject of the OP gets the help he needs without having to suffer as much off-topic nonsense as we've had to.