Changing sand/media.

[up2you2]

What is the best sand media for a Emaux filtration unit please?

[banglay]

I changed from using  sand to EcoClear glass filter media....best move I did the water has never been so clear .

 

EcoClear Coarse is a new 100% recycled, environmentally
friendly media that lasts up to 3 times longer than
traditional Silica sand, great benefits keeping the pool water crystal clear & environmentally friendly

Saves up to 25% of water through quicker back-washing.

• Greater filtration capacity, longer time between back-washing.
• Filters down to 3 micron. Cleanest, clearest water available.
• Reduces bacteria growth in filter, saves on chemical usage.
• Electrostatic mechanical Filtering.
• Allows Higher flow, this improves filtration.
• Improves flow and reduces electrical costs.
• Ultra low carbon footprint

[sappersrest]

The best silica sand is that supplied by astral or certikin, if you get sand supplied in old rice sacks you will just be getting  low grade river sand  that will  wear out in no time at all.

If your budget will run to it both  of the above mentioned companies sell top quality graded recycled glass as used in many olympic facilities.

Your third choice is recycled plate glass which by its nature is  strong and  long lasting, and should outlast sand and bottled glass.

 

 

[Bagwain]

I have used "Eco Clear" recycled plate glass extensively for yrs now!

Best move I ever did for my pool & house side of the filtration business !

I used Zeolite for yrs however it has its pitfalls with heavy metals in the water. "Eco" doesn't have these issues!

See attached brochure!

However big difference between "Eco" & recycled bottle glass which I recommend to stay away from!

Eco Clear.pdf

[unheard]

3 hours ago, sappersrest said:

If your budget will run to it both  of the above mentioned companies sell top quality graded recycled glass as used in many olympic facilities.

Can you provide any reference to the brand of the glass media  used by olympic facilities?

Recycled bottle glass media (loaded with bacteria) must be properly processed to clear up the bacterial load.

Also, the olympic facilities use the "industrial" type of equipment, which is not even remotely comparable to the average private swimming pool setup.

[unheard]

2 hours ago, Bagwain said:

I have used "Eco Clear" recycled plate glass extensively for yrs now!

Best move I ever did for my pool & house side of the filtration business !

And what's your experience with backwashing?

Even the linked brochure mentions the ecoglass' media high angularity which would be a huge impediment to proper backwashing - the angular properties of the glass don't allow the media to be lifted by the flow of the water which leads to reduced media expansion which in turn prevents proper cleaning.

The sand particles don't have that problem (being well rounded in comparison).

[unheard]

"What is the best sand media for a Emaux filtration unit please?"

The following looks like a reasonably priced quality silica sand:

https://www.winwinpoolshop.com/en/product/15004-11286/silica-sand-25-kgbag

 

As for the best filtration media?

The following product seems to be clicking all the right boxes, at least judging by the provided info.

Don't know anything about its price or availability.

https://www.waterco.com.au/pool-spa/filter-media/glass-pearls

[sappersrest]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Can you provide any reference to the brand of the glass media  used by olympic facilities?

Recycled bottle glass media (loaded with bacteria) must be properly processed to clear up the bacterial load.

Also, the olympic facilities use the "industrial" type of equipment, which is not even remotely comparable to the average private swimming pool setup.

Yes  Astral london olympics

[sappersrest]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

And what's your experience with backwashing?

Even the linked brochure mentions the ecoglass' media high angularity which would be a huge impediment to proper backwashing - the angular properties of the glass don't allow the media to be lifted by the flow of the water which leads to reduced media expansion which in turn prevents proper cleaning.

The sand particles don't have that problem (being well rounded in comparison).

That is the point angular filter media is better once sand gets rounded it is u/s

[sappersrest]

Prime brands such as astral and certikin are properly graded for filtration and are first class products , i have used many hundreds of tonnes of each, doing a rough ang ready calculation I have been responsible for a good few thousand tonnes of filter media in my working life 9  tonnes on average per filter vessel

Comercial and  domestic pool filtration work on exactly the same principles save for flow rates,   I have been in the industry for 30  years now retired .

[Bagwain]

15 hours ago, unheard said:

And what's your experience with backwashing?

Even the linked brochure mentions the ecoglass' media high angularity which would be a huge impediment to proper backwashing - the angular properties of the glass don't allow the media to be lifted by the flow of the water which leads to reduced media expansion which in turn prevents proper cleaning.

The sand particles don't have that problem (being well rounded in comparison).

Backwashing is reduced so are chemicals and salt depending on how you sanitise your pool.

Your thinking is opposite to how it really works. You need angles for better filtration.

"Eco Clear" doesn't hold on to biofilm so it's flushed out. 

Read the brochure I attached in previou reply.

I also have 30 yrs in the industry but only been using "Eco Clear" glass for 6 yrs.

 

sappersrest is corect in his replies.

 

[unheard]

14 hours ago, sappersrest said:

That is the point angular filter media is better once sand gets rounded it is u/s

???

I don't think I get your point.

I have specifically mentioned back washing since the angular media doesn't allow the proper implementation of the process.

[unheard]

1 hour ago, Bagwain said:

Backwashing is reduced so are chemicals and salt depending on how you sanitise your pool.

Your thinking is opposite to how it really works. You need angles for better filtration.

"Eco Clear" doesn't hold on to biofilm so it's flushed out.

Backwashing is related to the process of removal of trapped solid or semi-solid particles suspended in the filtering media.

Backwashing requires a generally much higher water flow/pressure condition allowing the media to raise and expand, as to allow the suspended particles to dislodge from the filtering media.

But the angular media won't allow to achieve  the same rates of the media raise/expansion as compared to a more rounded media due to the shape of the particles, thus preventing full flushing.

Glass media companies usually claim that they provide better filtration, and bio-film build-up resistance.

Are there any tests to prove that (better filtration in particular)?

I've seen one such test that shows otherwise - glass media providing worse than sand filtration properties.

[unheard]

15 hours ago, sappersrest said:

Prime brands such as astral and certikin are properly graded for filtration and are first class products , i have used many hundreds of tonnes of each, doing a rough ang ready calculation I have been responsible for a good few thousand tonnes of filter media in my working life 9  tonnes on average per filter vessel

Comercial and  domestic pool filtration work on exactly the same principles save for flow rates,   I have been in the industry for 30  years now retired .

Commercial and domestic work on the same principles but in vastly different configuration setups, with different priorities.

Private and commercial pools can not be easily compared.

[Bagwain]

22 minutes ago, unheard said:

Backwashing is related to the process of removal of trapped solid or semi-solid particles suspended in the filtering media.

Backwashing requires a generally much higher water flow/pressure condition allowing the media to raise and expand, as to allow the suspended particles to dislodge from the filtering media.

But the angular media won't allow to achieve  the same rates of the media raise/expansion as compared to a more rounded media due to the shape of the particles, thus preventing full flushing.

Glass media companies usually claim that they provide better filtration, and bio-film build-up resistance.

Are there any tests to prove that (better filtration in particular)?

I've seen one such test that shows otherwise - glass media providing worse than sand filtration properties.

I bet that was recycled bottle glass and not recycled plate glass!

As sand breaks down and looses its sharp edges it is stuffed. End of story!

I will stick with my experience with "Eco Clear" recycled plate glass with many dozens of happey customers!

These are some results of "Eco" which filters dwon to 4-5 microns on par but actually better than DE!

[unheard]

15 hours ago, sappersrest said:

Yes  Astral london olympics

Astral doesn't seem to be anything special as glass media.

And according to the test below doesn't filter as good as sand (filtration velocity: 20m/h)

 

[Bagwain]

1 minute ago, unheard said:

Commercial and domestic work on the same principles but in vastly different configuration setups, with different priorities.

Private and commercial pools can not be easily compared.

No they don't!

I have been involved with hudreds of municiple, resorts & 5 star hotel pools in 3 countries. 

The basically are the same however there is obviously different systems. However in most cases filtration is the same concept and proccess including backwashing.

I also was involve with a project that involved Griifth University & Qld Education 's 400 + school pools!

Also 2 yr project with Griffith university when the Cryptosporidium outbreak accured!

[Speedhump]

I understand that it doesn't answer the question, but I changed from a sand filter to a cartridge filter a couple of years ago. Easy to clean, water is always clear, and there's really no need to replace the paper filter every year so long your pool doesn't get very heavy use. 

[Bagwain]

4 hours ago, unheard said:

Astral doesn't seem to be anything special as glass media.

And according to the test below doesn't filter as good as sand (filtration velocity: 20m/h)

 

Make me laugh! Another Google expert!

[up2you2]

What interest me due to the substantial difference of cost between these filter mediums, let alone the inconvenience of having to change them, is that nobody is referring to an independent review and comparison, whereby these medias have been tested under the same conditions. 

[Bagwain]

21 hours ago, up2you2 said:

What interest me due to the substantial difference of cost between these filter mediums, let alone the inconvenience of having to change them, is that nobody is referring to an independent review and comparison, whereby these medias have been tested under the same conditions. 

Well my dozens of happy customers and the obvious much better results are enough for me! 

I am sure sappersrest would agree with me on this with his experience!

[unheard]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:08 AM, up2you2 said:

What interest me due to the substantial difference of cost between these filter mediums, let alone the inconvenience of having to change them, is that nobody is referring to an independent review and comparison, whereby these medias have been tested under the same conditions. 

Most of the glass media is shown to be inferior compared to quality sand in both filtering and backwashing tests (test date: 2014)

 

https://www.drydenaqua.com/files/pools/resources/pdf/test_results/IFTS_Report_E_Print.pdf

[Bagwain]

15 hours ago, unheard said:

Most of the glass media is shown to be inferior compared to quality sand in both filtering and backwashing tests (test date: 2014)

 

https://www.drydenaqua.com/files/pools/resources/pdf/test_results/IFTS_Report_E_Print.pdf

You obviously didn't read the article!!

AFM is not sand!

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[unheard]

2 hours ago, Bagwain said:

You obviously didn't read the article!!

AFM is not sand!

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

And you obviously failed to understand or just chose to ignore the results of the test.

AFM is the only glass media, out of five others, that was capable to best sand.

The other five were shown to be inferior.

Besides, can you tell us where in Thailand  you can buy AFM, what is its cost and how many customers of yours have been benefiting from it?

AFM is a completely different beast and has nothing to do with the heavily promoted by you EcoClear.

And it's not being advertised as such (similaraty to AFM) in your sale brochures.

EcoClear is just a "normal" glass media very similar to other 5 inferior glass medias presented in the test.

[Bagwain]

22 hours ago, unheard said:

And you obviously failed to understand or just chose to ignore the results of the test.

AFM is the only glass media, out of five others, that was capable to best sand.

The other five were shown to be inferior.

Besides, can you tell us where in Thailand  you can buy AFM, what is its cost and how many customers of yours have been benefiting from it?

AFM is a completely different beast and has nothing to do with the heavily promoted by you EcoClear.

And it's not being advertised as such (similaraty to AFM) in your sale brochures.

EcoClear is just a "normal" glass media very similar to other 5 inferior glass medias presented in the test.

It is not normal glass media. You comment shows your ignorance.

I will stick with my 6 yrs of experience with the product and many dozens of happy customers!

Rather than debate with a Google ex pert!

[Saanim]

2 hours ago, Bagwain said:

It is not normal glass media. You comment shows your ignorance.

I will stick with my 6 yrs of experience with the product and many dozens of happy customers!

Rather than debate with a Google ex pert!

Why not to start a thread about experience?  How many years and how many stars? Then, no need any arguments... 

[Saanim]

I did not study any report about that or other filter media. However, with my common sense - and backyard experience - I wonder whether any study/report can provide a plausible comparison of sand, glass, or anything.

 

How can it be compared? Running 2 pools of the same size and atmospheric conditions over long time frame? Measuring various values? 

 

And even if something like this will show some different measurements, how much is the difference? How many percent of what? How much will it influence our swimming? How much will it influence the maintenance of our MickeyMouse pools?  

 

 

[Granit]

Where can I buy this eco clear plate glass version?

All glass media from eco clear I seem to be able to find is the recycled bottle glass.

[Bagwain]

21 hours ago, Granit said:

Where can I buy this eco clear plate glass version?

All glass media from eco clear I seem to be able to find is the recycled bottle glass.

Where are you situated?

[Granit]

3 hours ago, Bagwain said:

Where are you situated?

I'm in BKK