Eyebrow raising money transfer “business”

[ncc1701d]

A Thai girl I know gets sent money from “someone” with directions on who to transfer that money to. She then sends the money as directed and gets a 1% cut. She has never been asked to send money before it being in her account. When I ask her why they don’t just send it directly to the final account, the reply is something about transfer limits (which doesn’t make sense because they have to send it to her, so why not send to final account). She claims the person she is sending to can’t find out who sent the money.
 

The amounts are small, anywhere from ฿1,000 up to ฿12,000 and maybe 6 transactions a day. Another friend of hers does the same thing.

 

I can’t figure out what is really going on, if only to offer advice as to any trouble she can get into. It all sounds dodgy to me.

 

Anyone heard of anything like this?

[CharlieH]

Financial regulations in Thailand changed.

 

Movement of money from/ro certain banks has been capped at 50k per transaction. (AFAIK)

 

MOVING tghis to Bankking where it has been discussed.

[tonray]

Sounds like something illegal involved and using intermediary 'mules' to effect the movement of cash in an effort to avoid tracking.

[mtls2005]

How are the instructions relayed from "someone" to "A thai girl you know"?

 

How is her 1% commission paid out?

 

How was she recruited? How was "her friend" recruited?

 

These are domestic transfers, right? 

 

9 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

The amounts are small, anywhere from ฿1,000 up to ฿12,000

These are the amounts she receives and forwards, correct? And on which the 1% commission is based?

 

10 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

She claims the person she is sending to can’t find out who sent the money.

Why does think this is important, and how did she make this determination?

 

 

Best case she's making decent coin for doing a job for which she is likely eminently qualified, remaining seated with phone firmly in hand.

 

Worst cast, she's a cut-out for some dodge/scam. 

 

Interesting that "someone" trusts her with handling 6,000 to 72,000 per day, and apparently can monitor her trustworthiness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oxx]

Quote

Money mule:  A money mule is someone who receives and moves money that came from victims of fraud. Some money mules know they are assisting with criminal activity, but others are unaware that their actions are helping fraudsters.

 

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/what-is-a-money-mule-en-2108/

[Dante99]

Why would any legal activity put here in the middle of a transaction and pay her to simply transfer the money?  The owner could do it themselves in the time it tells her what to do.

[scubascuba3]

money laundering

[mtls2005]

14 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

money laundering

Meh.

 

Hardly seem likely or efficient given the details. If it is, it is being run by idiots.

 

 

Most likely - again given the second, third and fourth hand "info" provided by the OP - is the thai-girl-friend is a cut-out for illegal contraband sales on FB.

 

 

[ncc1701d]

16 hours ago, tonray said:

Sounds like something illegal involved and using intermediary 'mules' to effect the movement of cash in an effort to avoid tracking.

Yes, that was my initial thoughts. Laundering.

[ncc1701d]

15 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Meh.

 

Hardly seem likely or efficient given the details. If it is, it is being run by idiots.

 

 

Most likely - again given the second, third and fourth hand "info" provided by the OP - is the thai-girl-friend is a cut-out for illegal contraband sales on FB.

 

 

I will get more info as per the questions from your first post. It is first hand info, however her English isn’t the greatest so I’m having to decipher and ask more questions. 

[ncc1701d]

15 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Why would any legal activity put here in the middle of a transaction and pay her to simply transfer the money?  The owner could do it themselves in the time it tells her what to do.

Yes… that’s why I’m asking if anyone has seen anything like this before. Hence the title of the thread and description.

[lkn]

If you can get her bank statement then it should be possible to see if the origin of all these small transfers are the same or not, and if they are direct transfers from another Thai bank account, through a debit/credit card, or other payment processor.

 

This might give a better idea of what kind of scam she is involved with.

[ncc1701d]

On 1/8/2022 at 8:25 AM, mtls2005 said:

How are the instructions relayed from "someone" to "A thai girl you know"?

 

How is her 1% commission paid out?

 

How was she recruited? How was "her friend" recruited?

 

These are domestic transfers, right? 

 

These are the amounts she receives and forwards, correct? And on which the 1% commission is based?

 

Why does think this is important, and how did she make this determination?

 

 

Best case she's making decent coin for doing a job for which she is likely eminently qualified, remaining seated with phone firmly in hand.

 

Worst cast, she's a cut-out for some dodge/scam. 

 

Interesting that "someone" trusts her with handling 6,000 to 72,000 per day, and apparently can monitor her trustworthiness.

 

Ok. Apologies… Seems like a bit of a false alarm. It’s some sort of online micro lending through some company called “shopee”. 

 

She Found out through word of mouth. Friends sister works for the shopee company.

 

She gets the 1% after about 24 hours. More transfers made before chrimbo and New Years etc. not as much at the moment. 

 

Not being able to trace transfers back to her was important to me, not her. 
 

It’s hardly worth the effort in my opinion. But whatever keeps her off the streets I guess.

[mtls2005]

10 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

It’s some sort of online micro lending

 

10 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

She gets the 1% after about 24 hours.

 

Yeah, this is called loan-sharking.

 

At last she's not doing anything illegal. Just profiting off the backs of others while lying on her back.

 

 

Tech-Fueled Microlenders Replace Loan Sharks as Thai Borrowing Swells

Lending growing at double digits with entry of more players
Covid, easy digital process driving debtors to microfinanciers

 

Siam Commercial Bank, Thailand’s biggest lender by market value, is pushing into microfinance through two units -- Monix Co. and SCB Abacus. The companies, offering nano finance service via mobile phone applications, use artificial intelligence and alternative data to target low-income and self-employed groups. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-19/tech-fueled-lenders-replace-loan-sharks-as-thai-borrowing-swells

[lkn]

7 hours ago, ncc1701d said:

Ok. Apologies… Seems like a bit of a false alarm. It’s some sort of online micro lending through some company called “shopee”. 

Doesn’t match with what was said. The micro lending platforms I have seen, you create an account on the platform, deposit funds, and then you lend out via the platform, both so that the platform can get a cut and control who repays what etc. You also actively select who you want to lend to, although they may have some auto-pilot stuff / pools that you can select, and you receive money after you have sent it (i.e. not before being repaid).

 

You implied everything goes through her personal bank account (not a platform) and that she receives money before she pass them on. This does not at all sound like micro lending.

 

Also, Shopee appears to be a marketplace, not a micro lending platform.

 

So the hypothesis proposed by @mtls2005 still sounds like the most likely.

 

Could be that the person using her just told her it was micro lending as a cover story, but I don’t think it holds up to scrutiny.

[ncc1701d]

15 hours ago, lkn said:

Doesn’t match with what was said. The micro lending platforms I have seen, you create an account on the platform, deposit funds, and then you lend out via the platform, both so that the platform can get a cut and control who repays what etc. You also actively select who you want to lend to, although they may have some auto-pilot stuff / pools that you can select, and you receive money after you have sent it (i.e. not before being repaid).

 

You implied everything goes through her personal bank account (not a platform) and that she receives money before she pass them on. This does not at all sound like micro lending.

 

Also, Shopee appears to be a marketplace, not a micro lending platform.

 

So the hypothesis proposed by @mtls2005 still sounds like the most likely.

 

Could be that the person using her just told her it was micro lending as a cover story, but I don’t think it holds up to scrutiny.

Yes… this being Thailand I guess anything is possible. She claims it’s all done through shopee accounts need her account is de identified. Anyway, thanks all for your replies.

[mtls2005]

16 hours ago, lkn said:

Doesn’t match with what was said.

This is the problem with 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand accounts here. Throw in the language issue and misinformation abounds. Not sure Shopee is related other than the third-hand "friend" may work there.

 

As you point out this may be more of a peer-to-peer (P2P) lending program enabled by modern apps.

 

Essentially it's the "Share" program brought from the 19th century to the 21st century. Now with none of the interpersonal issues of the Share program.

 

Formal P2P programs are LEGAL. In fact they are endorsed by the BoT, regime and regulators.

 

Still not certain what the OP's "friend who is a thai girl" is up to though.

 

 

Peer-to-peer lending websites to take off in Thailand soon

 

The Bank of Thailand (BOT) is testing three peer-to-peer (P2P) lending platforms under its regulatory sandbox and believes they should go into operation in the beginning of 2022.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/40007410

 

 

 

[lkn]

Just received an unsolicited text message asking if I am worried about not making any income.

 

If so, I can sign up with them and make 3,000 baht per day using my mobile phone.

 

They say they work with Shopee, and if I am interested, I can reach them via LINE.

 

Sounds suspiciously similar to what OP has described. I’ve sent them a message saying I am interested in signing up, maybe I can find out what it is actually about.

[lkn]

I have now spoken with the person/people/bot who contacted me.

 

It is a scheme to increase sales volume for merchants on Shopee to increase the merchant’s rating. So basically just fake sales. They promised me a 4% commission but I didn’t sign up ????

 

[The Hammer2021]

On 1/9/2022 at 8:04 AM, ncc1701d said:

Ok. Apologies… Seems like a bit of a false alarm. It’s some sort of online micro lending through some company called “shopee”. 

 

She Found out through word of mouth. Friends sister works for the shopee company.

 

She gets the 1% after about 24 hours. More transfers made before chrimbo and New Years etc. not as much at the moment. 

 

Not being able to trace transfers back to her was important to me, not her. 
 

It’s hardly worth the effort in my opinion. But whatever keeps her off the streets I guess.

Shopper is as famous as lazada or amazon.lol

[mtls2005]

4% is a healthy hit to CoS and GPM. So many questions...

 

who is running this scheme? third-party? Shopee or a sub? Rogue Shopee employees?

why do they need "patsies"? Seems like this could be done with a SIM/Click Farm?

is it "legal"? Churn/pump & dump schemes rarely are. But think this is just an exploit and thus not illegal. Could violate terms of a contract though?

do they guarantee results? Click through? Banner? email blast? Top Pick inclusion? Flash Sale inclusion (Pay Day/last Friday, 2/2/22 should be a HUGE day)

are preferred logistics carriers involved?

 

Shoppee should have automated triggers to identify loopholes/exploitations, but if it benefits them maybe those are ignored.

 

I guess online retailing for SMEs here is a combination cage-match /shark tank.

 

Seems like it would be easier to pay extra for tiered services? But that might be illegal?

 

 

 

 

 

[lkn]

5 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

4% is a healthy hit to CoS and GPM. So many questions...

It did sound high, but this was their sales pitch, so it is probably “up to 4%”.

 

It is not being run by Shopee themselves. This is the sign-up page, which doesn’t even have a certificate to secure the connection: http://lgo-shope.me — but notice the very official looking logo ????
 

The reason they need patsies is most likely because they need verified sales, and if payment is processed through Shopee, they need different bank accounts to make it appear as unique sales.

 

Let’s assume the merchant is selling pure garbage, so anyone who buys will give it one star. But if 80% of sales are fake, that is (8×5 stars + 2×1 star)/10 = 4.2 stars. Probably nobody would suspect a merchant with 4.2 stars of selling pure garbage.

So one real sale has to make enough profit to pay commission for four fake sales. If sales price for fake and real is the same, and Shopee takes a 5% commission (just a guess) then four fake sales take 36% of our profit from the real sale, then we have Shopee commission for the real sale, shipping, and the actual thing being sold.

 

All in all, it doesn’t sound unrealistic, that they could turn a profit. But surely it is a volume game, and that is why they are recruiting patsies left and right.

 

And yes, definitely must be against Shopee’s terms of service.

 

Amazon is struggling with similar problems. Some time ago there were stories about people in the U.S. receiving unsolicited packages from China, often containing seeds. This was so that the merchant would have tracking info to submit to Amazon, to make it appear as a legit sale had taken place.