‘Nocebo effect’: two-thirds of Covid jab reactions not caused by vaccine, study suggests

[cdemundo]

‘Nocebo effect’: two-thirds of Covid jab reactions not caused by vaccine, study suggests

"US researchers show negative version of placebo effect behind many symptoms such as headaches and fatigue"

Whodda thunk it?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests

[KhunLA]

Wake up, you're not dead ... it's all in your mind ... ????

[Virt]

Posted a similar article some time ago. Everyone knows how the Placebo effect works, but seems not a lot know about the Nocebo effect.

 

Lancet has plenty articles about this effect posted way before Covid 19.  So yeah some mild side effects after the vaccine are most likely caused by yourself , but we have no idea how to tell the difference.

I expected to get some mild symptoms, and i got headache and fatigue after first shot.  No idea if it was because i expected it, or it came from the vaccine it self.  Second shot just a bit fatigue and nothing after 3rd shot.

 

As for the placebo effect it would be nice if we could find a way to trigger it automatically.  They can measure the placebo effect in the middle frontal gyrus brain, but don't know what triggers it.

It would cut down on a lot of ordinary painkilling medicine if we could trigger it by ourselves.

[thaibeachlovers]

[internationalism]

many people don't bother reporting any adverse effects through official channels, as they realise it;s

natural and expected. They dont want discourage health professionals and overburden them with paperwork.

Neurotics, hypochondriacs, psychotics and those coerced in very different ways to get a jab might have a negative attitude from the start, hence will be complaining more.

Besides, in thailand it's nearly impossible for a foreigner to report - application doesnt take any reports, there is no own GP or clinic. People go to clinics, hospitals which are very large and they dont have the same doctor with a personal relationship. For my shots I have travelled from bangkok to pattaya. Many travelled from provinces to bangkok.

[Virt]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Did you try and read up on the effect, and see how many people are affected by it in other studies not related to covid?

 

It's not something that had been discovered recently.

It goes back to 1970 or so.

 

Harvard had an article in 2014 describing that 20% of people that eat sugar pills as placebo in studies, experience side effects as if they would if they had taken a real drug.

 

Or will you just claim they are allergic to sugar ????

 

The effect is real and our bodies are sometimes able to cure or harm itself.

No magic, no divine intervention.

Just atoms at work.

We're just a product of nature and nature works in mysterious ways ????

[Ryan754326]

I bet most of you would call me crazy if I suggested that this nocebo effect might also be responsible for a good portion of the “long covid” case being reported. 

It’s just my personal observation, but I’ve noticed that many people who weren’t all that worried about covid got over it pretty quickly, while those who were terrified of catching it tend to describe it as “the sickest they’ve ever been”. 
 

I do agree that many of the people who only got the vaccine reluctantly seem to complain more about the side effects, but I don’t see why this effect can’t work both ways. 

 

[internationalism]

There is a difference between a jab side effects, which might be difficult to test and measure and between long covid. 
first, there are symptoms, which can be measured very precisely from the beginning of infection to the end of long covid. Those are impossible to show strong and for a long time, if just nocebo. Patient might be hospitalised for a long time, constantly observed, tested and medicated. Will talk to many experienced doctors, at least once per day. Referred to specialists. Especially if his subjective report contradicts laboratory results. Many symptoms of covid and long covid are neurological. Some might be referred further to clinician psychologist and psychotherapist. Observed and treated for psychosis. 
Any pulmonary infection can last weeks to clear and long term effects on lungs can be up to 6 months to fully recover to the original capacity. There might be scar tissue in lungs. Some patients will become chronic

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

There is a difference between a jab side effects, which might be difficult to test and measure and between long covid. 
first, there are symptoms, which can be measured very precisely from the beginning of infection to the end of long covid. Those are impossible to show strong and for a long time, if just nocebo. Patient might be hospitalised for a long time, constantly observed, tested and medicated. Will talk to many experienced doctors, at least once per day. Referred to specialists. Especially if his subjective report contradicts laboratory results. Many symptoms of covid and long covid are neurological. Some might be referred further to clinician psychologist and psychotherapist. Observed and treated for psychosis. 
Any pulmonary infection can last weeks to clear and long term effects on lungs can be up to 6 months to fully recover to the original capacity. There might be scar tissue in lungs. Some patients will become chronic

"There is a difference between a jab side effects, which might be difficult to test and measure and between long covid. "

 

Right.

The original article was about jab side effects, not at all about long covid.

[Ryan754326]

18 hours ago, internationalism said:

There is a difference between a jab side effects, which might be difficult to test and measure and between long covid. 
first, there are symptoms, which can be measured very precisely from the beginning of infection to the end of long covid. Those are impossible to show strong and for a long time, if just nocebo. Patient might be hospitalised for a long time, constantly observed, tested and medicated. Will talk to many experienced doctors, at least once per day. Referred to specialists. Especially if his subjective report contradicts laboratory results. Many symptoms of covid and long covid are neurological. Some might be referred further to clinician psychologist and psychotherapist. Observed and treated for psychosis. 
Any pulmonary infection can last weeks to clear and long term effects on lungs can be up to 6 months to fully recover to the original capacity. There might be scar tissue in lungs. Some patients will become chronic

There are those who have been hospitalized with obvious, provable symptoms of long covid, and then there’s are a lot more who say they “just don’t feel the same since they got infected”. 
 

I know none of the former group. Lots of the latter group. 
 

Seems like half of the people I know suffer from fatigue and brain fog in the best of times. Now they have something to blame it on. Some of them are still sitting at home collecting money from the government as a result of their “illness”.

I don’t see it as being much different from a soft tissue injury, in many cases; you can tell your doctor you have whiplash after someone bumped into your car with a shopping cart, and it’s his word against yours. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ryan754326

[Ryan754326]

17 hours ago, cdemundo said:

 

 

Right.

The original article was about jab side effects, not at all about long covid.

Sorry to bring an alternative viewpoint into the conversation. It just struck me as an interesting side point that if the nocebo effect is, in fact, real, which the research seems to confirm, then maybe it’s possible that it also affects those who have stressed themselves out more than necessary due to their fear of long covid. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ryan754326

[mommysboy]

On 1/26/2022 at 9:01 AM, Ryan754326 said:

I bet most of you would call me crazy if I suggested that this nocebo effect might also be responsible for a good portion of the “long covid” case being reported. 

It’s just my personal observation, but I’ve noticed that many people who weren’t all that worried about covid got over it pretty quickly, while those who were terrified of catching it tend to describe it as “the sickest they’ve ever been”. 
 

I do agree that many of the people who only got the vaccine reluctantly seem to complain more about the side effects, but I don’t see why this effect can’t work both ways. 

 

'bet most of you would call me crazy if I suggested that this nocebo effect mig.......'

 

Yes.

[Ryan754326]

On 1/27/2022 at 8:10 AM, mommysboy said:

'bet most of you would call me crazy if I suggested that this nocebo effect mig.......'

 

Yes.

Call me whatever you want. 

My humble opinion is that most (not all) of the people who are claiming to have long covid are just anxiety ridden hypochondriacs looking for an excuse to stay home from work and collect welfare. 
If the nocebo effect can legitimately cause someone to think that they are suffering side effects from a vaccine, then why couldn’t it cause someone to think that their covid infection keeps lingering on in the form of symptoms that can’t really be measured, such as fatigue, brain fog, and muscle aches?

 

I’m just telling it the way I see it: I know a lot of people who have had covid, and the only ones who claim to be suffering from some kind of long covid are the ones who need a week off of work every time they get a runny nose, or have some kind of unproven ailment that prevents them from doing any heavy lifting on the job.