The insulin half-truth spread by Jason Fung / Gary Taubes and other Keto lovers

[TravelerEastWest]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:47 PM, Sparktrader said:

39% of Indians are vegans.

Very few people in India are vegans - not sure where you got your information from. probably around a third of Indians are vegetarians but also eat lots of oil and processed foods.

 

Vegetarians that eat processed food, junk food high in oil, fat and sugar are not so healthy... same as meat eaters. See the earlier part of this thread.

 

Overall a whole plant based diet that is low in fat and free from oil, sugar and salt has been shown in many studies to be best for your health.

 

I understand that you are happy with your views - good luck to you.

 

[Sparktrader]

9 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Very few people in India are vegans - not sure where you got your information from. probably around a third of Indians are vegetarians but also eat lots of oil and processed foods.

 

Vegetarians that eat processed food, junk food high in oil, fat and sugar are not so healthy... same as meat eaters. See the earlier part of this thread.

 

Overall a whole plant based diet that is low in fat and free from oil, sugar and salt has been shown in many studies to be best for your health.

 

I understand that you are happy with your views - good luck to you.

 

39% according to surveys. You get your info from CNN.

 

Plant based stuff is nonsense. Most plant nutrients are poorly absorbed

Edited April 23, 2022 by Sparktrader

[TravelerEastWest]

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

39% according to surveys. You get your info from CNN.

 

Plant based stuff is nonsense. Most plant nutrients are poorly absorbed

You are simply wrong as is most of your information.

 

In this case I have lived in India and know for a fact that vegans are rare... Also I checked half a dozen websites (not CNN in this case) in case things have changed and all agreed vegans are rare in India.

 

I do like CNN for international coverage and I am sure they on occasion make mistakes as do all news organizations. Also all news organizations have a bias so perhaps that is what you really don't like?

 

Do you prefer Fox news?

 

As for myself I watch a variety of news sources ranging from Fox news to CNN to NPR and the BBC partially to get different points of view but more so to get additional information...

 

I am sure you are happy with your world view and diet - which is good for you... I wish you all the best.

Edited April 24, 2022 by TravelerEastWest

[Sparktrader]

4 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

You are simply wrong as is most of your information.

 

In this case I have lived in India and know for a fact that vegans are rare... Also I checked half a dozen websites (not CNN in this case) in case things have changed and all agreed vegans are rare in India.

 

I do like CNN for international coverage and I am sure they on occasion make mistakes as do all news organizations. Also all news organizations have a bias so perhaps that is what you really don't like?

 

Do you prefer Fox news?

 

As for myself I watch a variety of news sources ranging from Fox news to CNN to NPR and the BBC partially to get different points of view but more so to get additional information...

 

I am sure you are happy with your world view and diet - which is good for you... I wish you all the best.

No I dont watch Fox or CNN. Especially for diet.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

The vast majority of Indian adults (81%) follow some restrictions on meat in their diet, including refraining from eating certain meats, not eating meat on certain days, or both. However, most Indians do not abstain from meat altogether – only 39% of Indian adults describe themselves as “vegetarian,” according to a new Pew Research Center survey. (While there are many ways to define “vegetarian” in India, the survey left the definition up to the respondent.)

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/07/08/eight-in-ten-indians-limit-meat-in-their-diets-and-four-in-ten-consider-themselves-vegetarian/

[Sparktrader]

So 39% rarely eat meat.

 

[Sparktrader]

2nd Longest livers Japan meat consumption up

 

https://www.foodnavigator-asia.com/Article/2017/04/26/Japan-s-meat-appetite-breaks-records

[CharlieH]

Video removed.

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

2nd Longest livers Japan meat consumption up

 

https://www.foodnavigator-asia.com/Article/2017/04/26/Japan-s-meat-appetite-breaks-records

I thought you were so smart, but you do know that this is the weakest kind of link you point out. This does not even classify as real science. There is no proven relation between meat and life. All you can say is that in japan they eat a lot of meat and live longest. That does not mean its connected. Typical B.S. on your side. You were so for keto and all of a sudden you drop it after a bod report from the Dr.

[Sparktrader]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I thought you were so smart, but you do know that this is the weakest kind of link you point out. This does not even classify as real science. There is no proven relation between meat and life. All you can say is that in japan they eat a lot of meat and live longest. That does not mean its connected. Typical B.S. on your side. You were so for keto and all of a sudden you drop it after a bod report from the Dr.

The top country is high meat. No 2 high meat.

 

Meats have a high nutrition profile.

 

These are facts not bs.

 

Good nutrition is connected to long life. Sodium levels are. 

 

 

[Sparktrader]

Published in the International Journal of General Medicine today, the study examined the overall health effects of total meat consumption in 170+ countries around the world. 
The researchers found that the consumption of energy from carbohydrate crops (grains and tubers) does not lead to greater life expectancy, and that total meat consumption correlates to greater life expectancy, independent of the competing effects of total calories intake, economic affluence, urban advantages, and obesity.

 

https://www.adelaide.edu.au/newsroom/news/list/2022/02/22/meat-eating-extends-human-life-expectancy-worldwide

[Sparktrader]

There's the science there above. Told you so.

 

Too bad the media has misled people for so long.

 

170+ countries study show meat extends life. 

 

No 1 and 2 on the list plenty of meat confirms this.

[Sparktrader]

"Worldwide, bivariate correlation analyses revealed that meat intake is positively correlated with life expectancies. This relationship remained significant when influences of caloric intake, urbanization, obesity, education and carbohydrate crops were statistically controlled. Stepwise linear regression selected meat intake, not carbohydrate crops, as one of the significant predictors of life expectancy. In contrast, carbohydrate crops showed weak and negative correlation with life expectancy."

[robblok]

23 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

The top country is high meat. No 2 high meat.

 

Meats have a high nutrition profile.

 

These are facts not bs.

 

Good nutrition is connected to long life. Sodium levels are. 

 

 

That is not the point, but you often don't get the point. Statistically and research wise the link you made is the weakest you can make. Its not really considered science or proof. Correlation is not the same as causality.  Just look it up

 

And Yes i agree that meat is healthy I just don't take things to extreme like you.

[Sparktrader]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

That is not the point, but you often don't get the point. Statistically and research wise the link you made is the weakest you can make. Its not really considered science or proof. Correlation is not the same as causality.  Just look it up

 

And Yes i agree that meat is healthy I just don't take things to extreme like you.

Just posted the science. 175 countries. Meat makes you live longer.

 

You never apologise though. Proved you wrong still you won't apologise.

 

Not extreme just science. Meat is good for you. Grains are not.

[TravelerEastWest]

6 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

So 39% rarely eat meat.

 

As I said you have no idea what you are talking about - I repeat vegans are rare in India.

 

Rarely eating meat is not a vegetarian and certainly not a vegan. When you make large mistakes like this it quickly casts a shadow on everything that you say...

 

I understand those who want to eat grass fed beef, wild salmon etc it is there choice; but not healthier than eating a whole food low fat plant based diet.

 

I am starting to think that you are not serious and only a troll...

[Sparktrader]

Just now, TravelerEastWest said:

As I said you have no idea what you are talking about - I repeat vegans are rare in India.

 

Rarely eating meat is not a vegetarian and certainly not a vegan. When you make large mistakes like this it quickly casts a shadow on everything that you say...

 

I understand those who want to eat grass fed beef, wild salmon etc it is there choice; but not healthier than eating a whole food low fat plant based diet.

 

I am starting to think that you are not serious and only a troll...

39% includes vegans and non meat eaters. Plus people who rarely eat it.

 

So only 61% eat meat often. That is lower than most countries. A clear negative influence on lifespan

 

I think you don't know much about diet, citing CNN proves that.

 

The latest science shows meat to be a positive factor despite your claims (outdated and debunked) that it isn't.

 

But if you happy to hold those outdated and debunked views so be it.

 

I'd rather look at the latest science than TV show websites.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

6 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

understand those who want to eat grass fed beef, wild salmon etc it is there choice; but not healthier than eating a whole food low fat plant based diet.

Debunked and outdated. Lots of plants are full of anti nutrients and I'm happy to post it.

[Sparktrader]

Anti-nutrient'	Food Sources
Lectins	Legumes, cereal grains, seeds, nuts, fruits, vegetables
Oxalates	Spinach, Swiss chard, sorrel, beet greens, beet root, rhubarb, nuts, legumes, cereal grains, sweet potatoes, potatoes
Phytate (IP6)	Legumes, cereal grains, pseudocereals (amaranth, quinoa, millet), nuts, seeds

[Sparktrader]

"Meat has advantages over food of plant origin in containing complete protein with all essential amino acids, is rich in vitamins, in particular vitamin B₁₂, and all essential minerals. It has a significant role not only for maintenance of health, development and proper growth⁵⁹ but also has played an important evolutionary role in ancestral hominins for approximately 2.6 million years.^60,61

Benefits of meat eating include better physical growth and development,⁶² optimal breastfeeding of neonates, and offspring growth.⁶³ Human adaptation to meat eating and mechanism to digest and metabolise meat^{6,59,62,64–67} have been supported by studies in human dietary evolution. This may also be reflected in the importance of meat eating for human’s whole life span.^5,60,68 Culturally, meat production and eating have also been integrated into human societies.^62,69–72

A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.⁷³ A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.⁷⁴ This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.^73,74"

 

^{The science is in. Meat beats plants for health. More nutrients, less anti nutrients.}

[Sparktrader]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:30 AM, robblok said:

As long as your on a caloric deficit there will always be time for your body to burn fat (as you cant spike your insulin all day on a balanced diet that is on a caloric deficit).

That theory doesnt translate well. In theory you could have 5 cokes a day and not put on weight but we know that not every calorie is equal. Some calories provide fullness or satiation, others don't.

 

I don't see anything in that link that debunks what Dr Fung says.

 

What is a balanced diet? How do you count the calories? Very difficult without a measuring scoop.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

Ironically the best plant food for long life is cocoa or cacao.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

Good chart

Fish and steak high satiety low sugar

High nutrition

 

 

[Sparktrader]

Swiss 4th longest lifespan. No 1 chocolate eaters.

 

Some studies have indicated regular consumption adds a year to your life.

 

Meat

Fish

Cocoa or dark chocolate

 

Interesting top 3. No kale.

[TravelerEastWest]

On 4/24/2022 at 9:33 AM, Sparktrader said:

So 39% rarely eat meat.

 

So you are 100% wrong, 39% are not vegans. 

 

I understand that you are embarrassed by your errors but if you admit your mistakes readers on this forum will take you more seriously.

 

Most of what you say is shall we politely say somewhere between wrong and biased/questionable.

 

i refer you back to the beginning of this post and the OP's post about reasonable eating. It was a good article very balanced.

 

You can eat a diet with healthy meat and fish and be OK but stay away from smoking, junk food and be sure to exercise.

 

I think you will be better still if you eat a whole plant based diet low in fat but I don't need for you or anyone else to do the same.

 

Again I wish you well...

 

 

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

So you are 100% wrong, 39% are not vegans. 

 

I understand that you are embarrassed by your errors but if you admit your mistakes readers on this forum will take you more seriously.

 

Most of what you say is shall we politely say somewhere between wrong and biased/questionable.

 

i refer you back to the beginning of this post and the OP's post about reasonable eating. It was a good article very balanced.

 

You can eat a diet with healthy meat and fish and be OK but stay away from smoking, junk food and be sure to exercise.

 

I think you will be better still if you eat a whole plant based diet low in fat but I don't need for you or anyone else to do the same.

 

Again I wish you well...

 

 

What a childish response. 39% is 39%. Very high number of people who dont eat meat often. I dont care whether they are 100% vegan or not. Your argument is trivial nonsense.

 

To get the benefits of meat you need to eat it every 48 hrs which the Dalai Lama does. He tried giving it up but was too weak.

 

Most countries are 5 to 10% not 39%.

 

I wish you well, hopefully your response is more mature.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Sparktrader

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Most of what you say is shall we politely say somewhere between wrong and biased/questionable.

Everything I said backed by science not CNN or opinions.

 

If you don't agree with science, not my fault.

 

2022 study, 175 countries, as good as it gets.

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

"What a childish response. 39% is 39%. Very high number of people who dont eat meat often. I dont care whether they are 100% vegan or not. Your argument is trivial nonsense."

 

Sorry that you don't like facts and you have a defensive reaction by stating that the facts are childish - your whole argument is flawed with old, out dated and incorrect information. If you simply admitted that you are completely wrong and moved on more people would listen to you...

 

Apparently you have no idea what a vegan is. Leaving aside for the moment the ethical aspects of their lifestyle they don't eat eggs or dairy ever and very few in India fit that description end of story  certainly not 39% of the population. In two years I never met even one vegan, but that was a while ago and I am sure there are a few more now...

 

As for CNN I like it for breaking news but my health information is mainly from reading books by Phds and MDs who are at the cutting edge of research. Occasionally YouTube videos by the same. Do you have a better suggestion for breaking news? If so please let us know.

 

As time goes on more and more people are adapting a whole plant based low fat diet and reversing heart disease etc. Of course the number of people with this diet is very small but over time it should grow. No one on a meat diet reverses heart disease as you probably know.