Kidney Stones :

[BangkokBoyJohnny]

Just had a normal routine Health check up and been informed (via the Ultra sound) I have a .6mm Kidney stone.

I am Checking with Dr Google tonight but wondered what the costs are approx for various treatments.

Will try Apple Cider Vinegar etc but guess Lithotripsy (ie shock wave) might be the way forward.

OR just tough it out see if it can pass as it's sort of the size limit.

No health Insurance but OK to pay for treatment as required.

 

Will get treated in Bangkok (or maybe Phuket) depending where I am at the time...

 

Cheers,

BBJ .

[grumpyoldman]

Been there done that, had an episode where it felt like my kidney was bursting, was vomiting white froth, mai sabai.

 

Lemon juice and stay fully hydrated, lots of water, try and cut salt. I forget what the doctor said about whats in lemon juice that breaks down the stone, but start drinking lemonade as well as your own squeezed lemon juice and it should break down and pass on its own.

[BangkokBoyJohnny]

6 minutes ago, grumpyoldman said:

Been there done that, had an episode where it felt like my kidney was bursting, was vomiting white froth, mai sabai.

 

Lemon juice and stay fully hydrated, lots of water, try and cut salt. I forget what the doctor said about whats in lemon juice that breaks down the stone, but start drinking lemonade as well as your own squeezed lemon juice and it should break down and pass on its own.

Thanks G.O.M. !

I'm just actually reading about Lemon Juice with EVOO (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) and am considering it !

[BangkokBoyJohnny]

Found some prices in BangkokHopsital website : 72k to 108k thb !

 

 

Simple Stone with Shock Wave under Moderate Sedation (OPD case)**	–	72,500
Complex Stone with Shock Wave under Moderate Sedation (OPD case)**	–	85,100
Simple Stone with Shock Wave under Deep Intervenous Sedation (OPD case)**	–	95,500
Complex Stone with Shock Wave under Deep Intervenous  Sedation (OPD case)**	–	108,000
Retreatment Shock Wave under Moderate Sedation (OPD case)**	–	22,000
Retreatment Shock Wave under Deep Intervenous  Sedation (OPD case)**	–	35,000

[jts-khorat]

24 minutes ago, BangkokBoyJohnny said:

Found some prices in BangkokHopsital website : 72k to 108k thb !

This would certainly not be cheaper outside of Thailand. According to this list, your simple stone would be about € 2.000 -- but... health insurance??

 

Your kidney stone is still really small, so you might get rid of it with the aforementioned methods.

 

But I can tell you from my own very sorry experience, a big kidney stone trying to get out is a painfull hell on earth. Having the same stone shattered in hospital was really harmless compared to it, and many of the pieces flushed out afterwards were about of the size of your stone. Getting the catheter pulled at the end of treatment was actually the most uncomfortable part of it.

 

My advice: consult a doctor on how to proceed and if home remedies do not flush it out fairly fast, do not procrastinate overly long and get rid of it in the hospital.

[Puccini]

1 hour ago, BangkokBoyJohnny said:

Just had a normal routine Health check up and been informed (via the Ultra sound) I have a .6mm Kidney stone.

I am Checking with Dr Google tonight but wondered what the costs are approx for various treatments.

Will try Apple Cider Vinegar etc but guess Lithotripsy (ie shock wave) might be the way forward....

When checking with Dr Google, be sure to ask the right questions, for example, but not limited to:

kidney stones of what size and in what location are suitable for ESWL

https://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/hw204232#:~:text=Stones that are between 4,ureter close to the kidney.

[Albert Zweistein]

25 minutes ago, BangkokBoyJohnny said:

Thanks G.O.M. !

I'm just actually reading about Lemon Juice with EVOO (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) and am considering it !

Forget about all the alternative remedies. I had lithotripsy 6 ! times and 3 operations. After the 5th lithotripsy I fainted, had a internal bleeding and was kept 5 days in the hospital.

Before the 2 last operations I faited at home because of the pain and was dropped in the hospital by ambulance where they kept me 2 days at cardio and 3 days urology and after this they operated me. The 2 last operations were performed trough my penis. Piece of cake ! Yes it still works, thank you. The main problem is salt which is excessive added in Thai food.

Have it sorted out NOW, the longer you wait the bigger the stone grows and the more complicated things get.

The above story didn't happen during a few years but over a few decades.

Good luck.

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, grumpyoldman said:

Been there done that, had an episode where it felt like my kidney was bursting, was vomiting white froth, mai sabai.

 

Lemon juice and stay fully hydrated, lots of water, try and cut salt. I forget what the doctor said about whats in lemon juice that breaks down the stone, but start drinking lemonade as well as your own squeezed lemon juice and it should break down and pass on its own.

I've not seen lemons here presumably people use limes instead?

[Polaky]

I was also detected with a stone using the dye method, how soon you want it removed relies on your pain threshold, I had a piercing pain midway up my back which made it difficult to drive semi's, here in oz i was put on the waiting list to get it blasted, wait time was approx 8 months, so persevered with the pain, around 4 months later I felt the pain moving down slowly, over a number of weeks it was in my groin, I was a beer swiller and was unaware what had transpired but woke one morning to find I was painless, must have passed, about 15 months later they contacted me for the blasting!!, a few years later they found a large one in my gall bladder, which I had removed.

[BangkokBoyJohnny]

Done my reading, think I'll opt for ESWL Lithotripsy but will book in to see the Doc next week.

Thanks for the advice Gents.

6 hours ago, Puccini said:

When checking with Dr Google, be sure to ask the right questions, for example, but not limited to:

kidney stones of what size and in what location are suitable for ESWL

https://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/hw204232#:~:text=Stones that are between 4,ureter close to the kidney.

Location is upper pole, which I think is good !

 

 

[tomazbodner]

9 hours ago, BangkokBoyJohnny said:

I have a .6mm Kidney stone.

0.6 mm or 0.6 cm? I would guess the latter.

6mm stone should still pass (and ultrasound generally shows them larger than they really are as there's estimation of size based on size of kidney, so it's not exact science), alas quite painfully. First thing I would do (and I've been battling stones for past nearly 30 years, and had shockwave done previously), is finding out what kind of stone it is. 2 main types are calcium and uric acid. Mine are the latter, so they are also a hint to other challenges like gout that can follow.

 

Then depending on the type of stone, take medication to melt them. Pocitrin Tab or Uralit-U (you can get them without prescription in pharmacy opposite Siriraj hospital) would take 3-6 months to melt the uric acid stone your size enough to pass on its own. Obviously if stone is calcium, you would need different medication, but working in the same way - slowly melting it away.

 

Drinking lots of water also helps as it prevents crystals from forming in kidney, which can then lead to kidney stone formation.

 

One way to know if your stones are uric or calcium is whether they show on x-ray or not. Calcium will, uric acid will not, or very faint.

 

As for blowing them up... I wasn't sedated nor had any pain medication administered, but the feeling was like if someone snapped me with a rubber band in the same spot every second for close to an hour. While that in itself was a bit annoying but not really painful, the bleeding from kidney that followed made me rethink whether I'd want to do it again. Yes, it wasn't invasive surgery but it still caused fair bit of damage to kidney itself.

 

As such, I would recommend going the way of melting it, and letting it pass on its own.

 

If it starts to pass too early and it is blocking the way, there will be pain. Provided you are not taking any hypertension medication, painkillers can be used to control pain. Buscopan won't do anything, but Nurofen or Tramal would. I have found Nurofen work better than others, and it's easily available over the counter (Nurofen Zavance). However - If you are taking any heart medication or hypertension medication like for instance Valsartan, that will cause kidney failure!

 

So careful with painkillers. Although if you only take medicine to melt stones, there's no interaction between them.

[Sheryl]

 

From the sounds of his post, he is completely asymptomatic and the stone was an incidental discovery on scans done as part of a routine check up - probably an abdominal ultrasound. Worth noting that routine abdominal US are NOT recommended by an public health authority, anywhere, as part of preventive check ups -- precisely because they lead to incidental findings like this which in turn often lead to unnecessary interventions. Private hospitals like them for exactly the same reason.

 

Since he is asymptomatic and the stone was an incidental finding on US and is at most 6 mm in size (if he actually meant to say .6cm) it is quite possible it will pass on its own, and it is certainly not indicated to proceed to any sort of surgical intervention now.

 

Management of asymptomatic stones of less than 10 mm size is conservative. "Asymptomatic kidney stones should be followed with serial imaging, and should be removed in case of growth, symptoms, urinary obstruction, recurrent infections, or lack of access to health care."  https://www.aafp.org/afp/2019/0415/p490.html

 

OP: drink as much water/fluids as you can and wait and see what happens. Your doctor might prescribe some medications (like tamusulosin) to help the stone pass more quickly. Strain your urine so that you will see when the stone passes, and save the stone so it can be analayzed to see what it is made of as that will help inform efforts to prevent future stones. If no obvious passage of stone within a few months get a repeat scan to see if it is still there and if it has increased in size.

 

If you develop pain then go to the hospital or back to the doctor. No reason to rush into more expensive treatments at this point.

[BangkokBoyJohnny]

Quick Update :

 

Many Thanks tomazbodner and Sheryl for you replies.

And to the previous posters too.

 

Sorry re type, the stone is .6cm:

 

Yes Sheryl correct, I am asymptomatic, I had a Cancer Screening program carried out at Bangkok Phuket Hospital this week, very professional, cost 7,500thb, in and out in 90 minutes. (Had a bit of Melanoma Skin Cancer last year but OK now, hence a year later went for the Cancer screening)

 

For your ultrasound abdomen result :A 0.6 cm. caliceal stone with caliectasis at upper pole and a 1.3 cm. simple cyst of Lt. kidney  recommend to doctor urologist.

 

Noted re Kidney damage on the Shockwave. I'll look into the Melting options/ investigating types of stone and hence relevant medication.

 

Thanks for the advice Sheryl, I'll most definitely keep that in mind when going to see the Urologist this week.

 

Best Regs

BBJ...

 

 

 

[BangkokBoyJohnny]

On 2/18/2022 at 2:19 AM, Albert Zweistein said:

Forget about all the alternative remedies. I had lithotripsy 6 ! times and 3 operations. After the 5th lithotripsy I fainted, had a internal bleeding and was kept 5 days in the hospital.

Before the 2 last operations I faited at home because of the pain and was dropped in the hospital by ambulance where they kept me 2 days at cardio and 3 days urology and after this they operated me. The 2 last operations were performed trough my penis. Piece of cake ! Yes it still works, thank you. The main problem is salt which is excessive added in Thai food.

Have it sorted out NOW, the longer you wait the bigger the stone grows and the more complicated things get.

The above story didn't happen during a few years but over a few decades.

Good luck.

Thanks Albert, Interesting read indeed ! Will get it sorted ASAP....