Building a new house in Isaan

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:53 PM, KarenBravo said:

Frankly, building on your wife's land, close to her family, is in my opinion a mistake. If (God forbid) things don't work out, the house is unsalable.

If things didn't work out, why would his wife need to sell her house?    That aside, why would it not be possible to sell the land and house?

[Elkski]

I'm not fond of religions or monks but I wouldn't go against the blessing of the foundations if I ever built a house in Thailand.   It is a wonderful feeling how the helpers come to set up cooking tent and all the people cook.   

If anyone is building a retaining wall that needs to hold back fill it is best to do it right and provide drainage above and at base of wall and proper footing and a design that can support the weight.  Also it can't be built on fill.  It's also proper to have perpendicular walls every 10m or so.  They can be sub surface in inside or showing if outside.   The amount of force wet dirt can exert on a wall is not imaginable for most people.  As proven by the many leaning walls. 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Netease said:

That's because there are no booring Rigs that I  know of in Chiang Mai we found one that was doing a job in CM that came from Phitsanulok

It has nothing to do with the availability of pile driving or boring rigs. It has to do with the correct foundations for a given soil structure.
 

There are many different soil structures and foundations. That you think that piles must always be used just demonstrates you lack of knowledge in soil structures and geological strata. 
 

There are certainly areas that require pile foundations, but go a few hundred meters away and they are redundant. Build a house on ledge and you can get rock drilling equipment to bore down into it and put in piles but you would be incredibly stupid to imagine that you gain anything other than a smaller bank balance by doing it. In a mountainous area you seldom need piles.

[Elkski]

Class! Class!  

[unheard]

14 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

In a mountainous area you seldom need piles.

I'm not a structural engineer...

But his pile-based foundation just doesn't look right, especially on a large house.

As you've said, there's no shortage of construction equipment in Chiang Mai.

Therefore it can not be used as a reason for not seeing any other similar type of foundations being constructed in the area.

Edited March 21, 2023 by unheard

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

I'm not a structural engineer...

But his pile-based foundation just doesn't look right, especially on a large house.

As you've said, there's no shortage of construction equipment in Chiang Mai.

Therefore it can not be used as a reason for not seeing any other similar type of foundations being constructed in the area.

Please note. I did not and do not make any comments on @Netease ‘s build, he certainly should have (may have) had a proper survey done before building. That survey may have required piles, if so then he followed the recommendations.

 

However there are a reasonably large percentage of foreigners who believe that because a certain building technique is practiced in their native country then it must be the one way that is “right” and they will not listen to other viewpoints. There are many more ways than one to do a job. 
 

However he asserted that Chang Mai doesn’t have pile driving rigs as if that is a problem. In fact the reason for there being few, if any, pile driving companies is simply because they have little work to do since other foundation types are more suitable. You can guarantee that if a business opportunity existed there would be companies available to do the work. That his work was done from a company based in Phitsanulok just proves the point.

[unheard]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

he certainly should have (may have) had a proper survey done before building. That survey may have required piles, if so then he followed the recommendations.

Sure, he could have a special case which did require (or rather allowed) piles.

But he hasn't mentioned anything specific, not even if his lot's been surveyed and found to be suitable for the uncommon to the area measure (piles).

His words:

 

"I dont understand why builders just dont just use piers its simple and quick"

 

Every builder in Thailand (or anywhere else) wouldn't hesitate to use "simple and quick" methods over the more complex and slower solutions if they were to satisfy local building requirements.

Since simpler and quicker usually translates into cheaper.

 

He also said:

 

"I used an architect that worked for the local authority he did the plans".

 

Still, not a direct answer to my question if the house plan has been permitted or not.

Just because it's been drawn by an architect that has supposedly worked for the local authority could mean many things.

Edited March 21, 2023 by unheard

[Muhendis]

12 years ago my settled building site was surveyed and tested for strength which was the pile depth test. I paid for and was given a complete report specifying 12M piles for the house support.

I didn't use his company for the construction but instead went to another who took one look at the land and the report and said "piles not necessary".

My two story house has been standing without any subsidence or even settling for that matter, for the past 11 years.

The house pillars are 2M depth on 2M square RC slabs. Location is at the end of a rice growing farm in Buriram.

 

The point being that sometimes the requirement for pillars can be overstated but it is probably safer to go for them if there is any uncertainty regarding slab support. 

[Encid]

And now all the foundations have been poured and the land more or less levelled again.

 

Next will be the boxing/formwork for the concrete beams, then the concrete pour for the beams, then the installation of the anti-termite spray piping and the PVC drains that go under the floor, followed by placement of the floor slabs by the end of this month, if all goes to plan.

 

[Muhendis]

5 minutes ago, Encid said:

the anti-termite spray piping

The what !?

That's a new one for me.

What is it?

How does it work?

Etc. etc. etc.

[Encid]

Just now, Muhendis said:

The what !?

That's a new one for me.

What is it?

How does it work?

Etc. etc. etc.

Apparently it is similar to the black poly piping used for drip or spray irrigation... it is clamped to the sides of all the concrete beams under the floor slabs, and has spray nozzles fitted at overlapping intervals.

 

 

The inlet pipe to the system is usually closed, but when operating is connected to an insecticide pump which is provided by an independent company... they do it annually I'm told.

 

/Edit: here is a link.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Encid

[Muhendis]

1 minute ago, Encid said:

Apparently it is similar to the black poly piping used for drip or spray irrigation... it is clamped to the sides of all the concrete beams under the floor slabs, and has spray nozzles fitted at overlapping intervals.

The inlet pipe to the system is usually closed, but when operating is connected to an insecticide pump which is provided by an independent company... they do it annually I'm told.

I think I'm going to un-sleep tonight worrying because of termite activity under my lifetime asset.

[MAF666]

We lived on a sailboat for six years between Phuket and Langkawi.

Got a termite infestation at anchor, had the boat gassed to get rid of them.

Discouraging termites from the ground sounds good.

That may not discourage the seasonal swarms.

[Encid]

Our builder has also given me a preliminary schedule, so I can coordinate the owner-supply items for him to install.

 

Some items will need close coordination with other third party suppliers, like our uPVC windows and doors.

 

I haven't discussed the details with him yet, but will before Songkran.

 

[unheard]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

Apparently it is similar to the black poly piping used for drip or spray irrigation... it is clamped to the sides of all the concrete beams under the floor slabs, and has spray nozzles fitted at overlapping intervals.

Done on every newly built house in Thailand (as far as I know).

Well, maybe not the ones built by farmers.

Edited March 21, 2023 by unheard

[Encid]

So on Monday morning the workers started fitting the reinforcing steel for the beams... initially sitting them on top of a sand/cement grout which had been set at a certain level for uniformity.

 

This photo is taken looking East.

 

As we can't be there every day, my wife's family are taking daily daily photographs and videos and sending them to us so we can keep track of progress.

 

Little did we know how useful this would become in a couple of days time...

 

 

[Encid]

And on the next day we received the following video:

 

 

Things seemed to be progressing quite well, until I spotted this... there's a beam going in where no beam exists and a hole has been excavated (presumably for the septic tank and soakaway) outside the plot... not where it should be!

 

We called our builder and sent the photos and he told us he'd be there on site first thing in the morning to sort it out.

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Encid

[Muhendis]

Will the rebar be spaced up from the cement grout before concrete is poured?

[Encid]

I asked my SIL to go back this morning (Thursday 23 March) to take some more photographs as although the videos do give you a very good overview of the progress, they are not clear enough to enable one to pay attention to details.

 

Here are the photos:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

Just now, Muhendis said:

Will the rebar be spaced up from the cement grout before concrete is poured?

I assume so... for us it would be standard practice to place concrete or plastic "shoes" under the rebar to enable full and proper coverage.

 

It is something I am keeping an eye on...

[Encid]

And here are the photos of the wrongly located beam and excavation:

 

 

[Encid]

Our builder contacted us just before lunch and admitted that his people had made a mistake, and he will correct it.

 

Apparently they were concerned that the septic tank (a DOS HERO 1600L) would not fit between the beams so they decided to move it.

 

I told him that by moving it where they had excavated would result in our 4m wide access road being pushed further away and would adversely affect the future location of the Main House.

 

As we had performed the survey together only a few weeks ago he remembered it well and agreed with my viewpoint.

 

I further pointed out to him that the septic tank was 156cm in diameter, so should easily fit between the RC beams which are 2m apart. He agreed.

 

After discussion with his people he told me that they had (wrongly) measured between the footings (which still had the cement cinder blocks boxing on them) and there wasn't enough room to fit the tank (which there is).

 

He also admitted that they had wrongly placed the beam reinforcing, and that it should have been placed at the column further East. I agreed with him.

 

So he has promised to keep a closer eye on the proceedings there so everything goes "to plan".

 

He has further agreed that if he or his foreman want to make any changes at all to the design, they must first contact me for agreement.

 

Here are his photos which show his measurements and the errors to rectify:

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

4 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Will the rebar be spaced up from the cement grout before concrete is poured?

My builder plans on using these... I'm used to them being called rebar "chairs or shoes"... here in Thailand they are simply called "mortar supports" or "spacers".

 

 

[GarryP]

I think I'd better stop following your thread for my own mental health. ???? You'll be picking out all the things that I should have called the builder out on, but because I wasn't on site and even if I was, know nothing about building,  would have missed anyway. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by GarryP

[Muhendis]

48 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I think I'd better stop following your thread for my own mental health. ???? You'll be picking out all the things that I should have called the builder out on, but because I wasn't on site and even if I was, know nothing about building,  would have missed anyway. 

I wish I had paid closer attention too.

A couple of my central pillars could have been more accurately positioned 150mm (6") further apart to avoid a whole bucket full of agro when the time came to fit the precast stairs.  

It all worked out in the end but it was all so unnecessary.

[Muhendis]

2 hours ago, Encid said:

My builder plans on using these... I'm used to them being called rebar "chairs or shoes"... here in Thailand they are simply called "mortar supports" or "spacers".

 

 

This should be good.

I've never seen such posh looking spacers/chairs/shoes and I've never ever noticed them used between horizontal formwork and rebar.

[Elkski]

I love threads like this.  It may givee hope an OCD , AR, guy like me wouldn't die if you make it.   Haha.   My first thoughts.  Check on termite system!  In Vietnam the builder used some type of poison powder he put around the inside of the beams on the main floor.  I would have to look at my pictures and video to recall  for sure but I think it was just before spreading out the pile of sand ,with a few bags of portland, that was mixed by shovels in the center of the room.  This 75-100 mm of dry pack mud was the floor, tile was laid on top just hours after using a Portland slurry?  This was on top of poorly compacted fill of 80-100 cm hauled in be wheelbarrow loads, pushed up a ramp by the women 2 days before.  I was concerned about no compaction.  The next day they flooded the area and people were sinking up to their knees as they did some march compaction dance.

2nd thought was is it ok to have septic tank under a slab? Or tucked in between beam?  I guess it will have a pump access  and should last a long time.  What is a Dos hero made out of? 

3rd concern was seeing the rebar thinking it was going to not be surrounded by a continuous fresh pour so water intrusion in the dry joint would cause rust.  Glad they will raise it up.  I am still wondering about the need for the mortar slab.  But I guess it is a way to stabilize things so the supports don't move and if they move the mortar will show cracking.   And also less chance of leakage under the forms during a pour.  Probably only took a few hours.  And can mark heights from the laser that would be more permanent than stakes that could get bumped during the form building.   I've seen those cement puck spacers used.  I guess that is a cheaper stronger way than relying on those plastic towers.  When labor is so cheap. 

I did wonder what that low shade cloth was for?  The boss probably sets up under the big one?

I'm sure your current spreadsheet items will each get several subsets of their own.  Proper prior planning prevenith <deleted> poor performance.  The 7 Ps as my old salty boss on the javi program used to say. 

[Encid]

And by 5pm the wrongly positioned beam had been relocated to its correct position and the grout bedding broken.

 

 

[Encid]

Today he came up with a novel idea for the soakaways... using some of the surplus concrete rings from our retaining wall.

 

The design called for a single soakaway using 100cm dia rings, but by utilizing our surplus 80cm dia rings and making two soakaways we end up with a greater capacity and it fits really well into the available space next to the septic tank.

 

Here are his plans:

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

He even produced a flyaround video of his proposal so we could visualize it better.

 

 

Note how the black water from the toilet is the only thing going into the septic tank, and that is vented through the roof just outside the building.

 

The grey water from the shower and the bathroom sink goes into the western soakaway, and the eastern soakaway receives the grey water from the kitchen sinks and the overflow from the septic tank.

 

The grey water systems are also vented through the roof just outside the building.

 

We had quite a detailed discussion a month or two ago about the importance of venting both black and grey water drainage systems, which usually isn't done correctly (if at all) here in Thailand.

 

I was pleased to see that he had taken heed of our discussion (although I might ask him to downsize the black water vent pipe from 4" to 2").