Building a new house in Isaan

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, unheard said:

Disagree.

There is a huge (yes huge!) difference in quality of houses in those price ranges.

The 20 mil mansion most likely than not will be built by a premium market specialist company utilizing quality materials and very high quality of labor, as compared to the 1 mil house built by part-time workers (farmers).

That can be 100% true but it can also be almost 100% incorrect. 
There are high priced homes that are built with very little attention to detail, using the part time farmers as labour so generating enormous profits for the builder.

There are equally high priced homes (the 20 million is not so high) where you have a conscientious builder paying quality subcontractors where attention to detail is paramount 

[unheard]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There are high priced homes that are built with very little attention to detail, using the part time farmers as labour so generating enormous profits for the builder.

There are always exceptions.

We're not discussing those.

Just pick any high end builder.

Do they employ farmers?

 

Have you observed any high end house being built in close details?

Just this year I've had an opportunity to compare building practices of two house building companies, positioned at both ends of the spectrum.

 

The high end one was very consistent with pretty much everything: schedule, communication, on site engineering support and supervision, quality of materials and work. No major mistakes.

 

The low end one was very good at communication, lacking on schedule, spotty with consistency of labor, with not nearly enough of oversight but still quick enough and willing to fix the out of spec parts, including the major ones like structural components (required component's demolition and rebuild).

No part-time farmers employed, even at the lower end as long as it's an established company with enough of prior years sales.

Edited October 22, 2022 by unheard

[Encid]

4 hours ago, unheard said:

There is a huge (yes huge!) difference in quality of houses in those price ranges.

The 20 mil mansion most likely than not will be built by a premium market specialist company utilizing quality materials and very high quality of labor, as compared to the 1 mil house built by part-time workers (farmers).

And it also depends on the type of build (material-wise) you want from the company.

 

For example, PD House have 3 different build types (and corresponding prices) that you can choose for your house: Exclusive, Smart, and Luxury.

You can download their specifications from their website.

Rather than try to compare specs across pdf files, I put the major items into a spreadsheet so you can see at a glance what the differences are.

See below:

 

[Encid]

54 minutes ago, unheard said:

The high end one was very consistent with pretty much everything: schedule, communication, on site engineering support and supervision, quality of materials and work. No major mistakes.

Which company was that, if you don't mind me asking?

 

Actually, I'd like to know both the companies please and their contact details/websites.

 

Please send me a PM if you wish the information to remain private.  

Edited October 22, 2022 by Encid

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

There are always exceptions.

We're not discussing those.

Those are exactly the ones under consideration. There is often no way to actually know the difference unless you are actually there.

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Just pick any high end builder.

Do they employ farmers?

Some on some occasions they do.

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Have you observed any high end house being built in close details?

Yes to high end, no to highest end.

 

in Thailand there are always exceptions, Thai’s are as quick to ensure that the prices they are paying equal the quality they expect. Thai builders are as quick to ensure that the workers expected to be on the job are there and will substitute less expensive, less skilled if they have a need and can get away with it.

 

I haven’t observed a really high end property being built so for that I am speculating that similar practices occur, it is certainly possible that there are unicorns in Thai building.

Edited October 22, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[unheard]

42 minutes ago, Encid said:

Please send me a PM if you wish the information to remain private.  

sent

[Bill Dauterive]

17 hours ago, unheard said:

Disagree.

There is a huge (yes huge!) difference in quality of houses in those price ranges.

The 20 mil mansion most likely than not will be built by a premium market specialist company utilizing quality materials and very high quality of labor, as compared to the 1 mil house built by part-time workers (farmers).

Skiled workers... I build 5 myself and have financed and or managed over a dozen more.) Some were extremely high end  homes in bangkok too yes. Can you refer me to the company you speak about..? Like i said i am about to build my own house so .. It seems i am in the typical Thai problem where others have exactly what you need but you can never ever find it anywhere.....ever.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Bill Dauterive

[Bill Dauterive]

42 minutes ago, Bill Dauterive said:

Skiled workers... I build 5 myself and have financed and or managed over a dozen more.) Some were extremely high end  homes in bangkok too yes. Can you refer me to the company you speak about..? Like i said i am about to build my own house so .. It seems i am in the typical Thai problem where others have exactly what you need but you can never ever find it anywhere.....ever.

BTW weren't we talking about a roughly 2 mill home in Isan ? Slim chance to find those there at those prices....

[HighPriority]

18 hours ago, unheard said:

Disagree.

There is a huge (yes huge!) difference in quality of houses in those price ranges.

The 20 mil mansion most likely than not will be built by a premium market specialist company utilizing quality materials and very high quality of labor, as compared to the 1 mil house built by part-time workers (farmers).

To a point I think the other guy is actually correct, let me explain…

Are the bricks any different between the two builds ?

Is there a better quality cement used ?

How about the glass windows and doors ?

The joinery ? Wall and floor tiles ? Paint ?

Im sure you’re getting the point.

Most of what we call defects are actually labor faults not material faults, which I think may have been the point of the poster you replied to.

Im a ceramic tiler in Oz and 99% of tiling work is carried out using close to the cheapest adhesive on the market (relative to purpose, ie swimming pool or kitchen splashback etc)

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, HighPriority said:

Is there a better quality cement used ?

No, most likely, but too much water added and badly managed pouring so dry joints are possible/likely.
 

 

1 hour ago, HighPriority said:

How about the glass windows and doors ?

That depends on who orders and controls the material, but lower quality glass, non low-e, not toughened etc is possible and hard or very difficult to check. Doors sourced from a maker who doesn’t use correctly seasoned wood or doesn’t store it correctly, very difficult to check as who has the expertise to do so.

1 hour ago, HighPriority said:

The joinery ?

If it gets painted it can get bodged

1 hour ago, HighPriority said:

Wall and floor tiles ? Paint ?

5 spot adhesive not full tile. Paint, thinned too much

 

1 hour ago, HighPriority said:

Most of what we call defects are actually labor faults not material faults,

A large percentage are labour but as above, sneaked in material can be significant. 

 

But is it mostly labour? Or is it supervision that is at fault? Most likely both.

 

The takeaway from this is that there are few builders who have the expertise to oversee a really perfect build and the builders to keep it to the highest standard. They certainly exist and you can get lucky to get one who is in the correct stage of his career to give you a really good job.

It is all about luck. 
It is certainly possible that there are builders who are professionals and are continuing to build high quality.

The way the society is structured makes the existence of this unlikely as the excellent builder will not be able to maintain excellent skilled workers as the excellent skilled workers can make more money going independent. 
 

The ultimate takeaway is if you know exactly how a build should be done, have the skill to supervise and motivate Thai/Burmese workers can get a quality builder, and can be on site 24/7/365 you can get a house with the minimum of defects 

Edited October 23, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[HighPriority]

Yes to most of that but 3mm glass is essentially no different from 3mm glass is it ?

Double glazed windows are another level to single glazing.

Thinning paint too much is a labor fault etc.

Joinery cabinets can be made from a few different products but are all fit for service in within design criteria, the problems tend to be labor/installation defects.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, HighPriority said:

Yes to most of that but 3mm glass is essentially no different from 3mm glass is it ?

No it isn’t and that is where some of the problems arise, though it maybe that you need a thicker glass to have all the possible options.
A low-e glass of which there are a number 

• l  Single silver low-e glass

  l  Double silver low-e glass

  l  Triple silver low-e glass

  l  Low-e-Sun layer glass

  l  Post-temperable single silver low-e glass

  l  Post-temperable double silver low-e glass

  l  Post-temperable triple silver low-e glass

are difficult to recognise compared to one of the simple tinted ones. These are from just one supplier.

The submit of IGUs (double glassed or triple glassed) is rather more complex as the difference in sound transmission using glazing of the same thickness compared to different thickness is significant.

 

So windows or glassed doors give excellent opportunities for seeming to have one, more expensive, option while getting a cheaper substitute 

 

The subject of glass substitution, though a mistaken order rather than deliberate poor quality supply, is one I know from personal experience. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Encid]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A low-e glass of which there are a number 

• l  Single silver low-e glass

  l  Double silver low-e glass

  l  Triple silver low-e glass

  l  Low-e-Sun layer glass

  l  Post-temperable single silver low-e glass

  l  Post-temperable double silver low-e glass

  l  Post-temperable triple silver low-e glass

Where in Isaan can you get suppliers of these products?

Are they online and have either a web page or a FB account?

Do they work in uPVC or Aluminium to produce sliding doors and windows?

[sometimewoodworker]

38 minutes ago, Encid said:

Where in Isaan can you get suppliers of these products?

Are they online and have either a web page or a FB account?

Do they work in uPVC or Aluminium to produce sliding doors and windows?

The manufacturers of quality glass are almost certainly in the Bangkok area they probably do not deal directly with the public. Glass supply shops will be able to order the quality you want and are likely to have catalogs.

 

Window and door suppliers will have a glass manufacturer, possibly a couple, they use. If you are getting custom sized doors and windows the supplier will order the glass to fit. 
 

The price you pay will decide the frames that are available.

 

A point of reference is that our doors and windows were between 1/5 and 1/6 of the total cost of our build. These costs were strongly influenced by the fact that the windows, doors and glass are as close to thief proof as we could reasonably specify, along with the large numbers and sizes for our build.

 

FWIW I feel that the price we paid has been justified by the quality, heat insulation, and sound insulation we received. We would make the same choice again.

 

You can certainly have much lower costs by buying standard sized windows that have normal double glazing and building to those sizes, though to have similar security to the standard we have, those windows and doors would need security bars. We decided the extra cost of windows  to avoid monkey bars was justified.

Edited October 23, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

Just FWIW

This is an example of the size and views the windows make possible.

and you maybe able to make out details if the glass supplier, the phone numbers are clear.

Edited October 24, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[unheard]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:11 PM, Encid said:

Where in Isaan can you get suppliers of these products?

Are they online and have either a web page or a FB account?

Do they work in uPVC or Aluminium to produce sliding doors and windows?

 

[sometimewoodworker]

On 10/24/2022 at 5:02 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Just FWIW

This is an example of the size and views the windows make possible.

and you maybe able to make out details if the glass supplier, the phone numbers are clear.

The URL is

https://www.tgsg.co.th/en/product_detail?cate=2&detail=9

[Encid]

Well it's been 3 months since we last visited the building site due to rainfall and the need to get the rice harvested.

 

A lot of FIL's rice fields were still under water due the the amount of land we relocated to fill our building site, so some of it had to be harvested manually, as it was too wet for machinery.

 

We were please to see that the local couch grass had taken over everywhere, and our vetiver grass was growing well and flowering on the sloping sides... no more issues with erosion.

 

The in-laws were even able to make a bit of money by selling the cut grass for cattle fodder... big smiles all around.

 

The land has settled marginally but noticeably... I'd estimate around 200mm or 10% of the original fill height... attributable of course to this year's extended rainy season.

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

Now that the rice has been harvested we contacted our builder and advised him that the land was now dry enough to enable a back hoe and trucks to enter so he can start to repair all the power poles that had fallen down.

 

We sent him the photos which clearly showed the use of minimal concrete around the poles and buried less than 1 metre deep.

For 8m high poles they were never going to remain standing.

This is NOT what he told me that they were going to do (supposed to be 1.5m deep and full of concrete not just the top 15cm) so obviously his team took a shortcut which caused them to fail.

 

Anyway, he has been good to his word and has promised to rectify them.

 

 

 

 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:26 PM, Encid said:

In most Isaan villages there are many unemployed lazy males who do nothing but drink with their buddies or do yaba.

Yup. My wife's sister and her BIL live out on the farm with solar cells, pump, and their tractor. He was recently in the hospital for a few days. FIL had to go sleep out there every night until he was better.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Encid said:

our vetiver grass was growing well and flowering on the sloping sides

AFIR you do not want the vetiver to flower so you need to cut it

[Encid]

21 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

AFIR you do not want the vetiver to flower so you need to cut it

Really?

I thought that the flowers would produce seeds which would in turn scatter and self-sow and generate more grass.

 

I will need to research this more.

[Encid]

22 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

AFIR you do not want the vetiver to flower so you need to cut it

You are correct... after a bit of research it seems that you should trim the grass to 30cm above ground level initially after 4 months of planting.

The second cutting should be done just before flowering starts in the second year.

After that you can just leave it to grow, unless you plan on harvesting the whole plant for the essential oils found in the root legumes.

 

We are not planning to harvest as we want the erosion prevention measures provided by the root systems.

[Encid]

Well our builder returned with a back hoe and some workers to replant all our downed power poles and replace the broken ones.

 

This time they dug down to a depth of 1.5 metres before planting the poles then back-filling the entire holes with concrete mixed on site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The work was completed in one day, but they are going to wait at least 1 week for the concrete to cure before attempting to re-hang the cables from the poles.

 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 2/19/2022 at 8:21 PM, KhaoYai said:

On 2/19/2022 at 8:16 PM, Isaanlife said:

Doesn't mean he would follow anyone's advice here!

Here we go. Why is there at least one like you on almost every thread.  Post your advice to the OP by all means but don't start slagging off other people's comments

He hasn't "slagged off" anyone's comments, he expressed his opinion, that's all.

[dinga]

On 12/17/2022 at 6:44 PM, Encid said:

You are correct... after a bit of research it seems that you should trim the grass to 30cm above ground level initially after 4 months of planting.

The second cutting should be done just before flowering starts in the second year.

After that you can just leave it to grow, unless you plan on harvesting the whole plant for the essential oils found in the root legumes.

 

We are not planning to harvest as we want the erosion prevention measures provided by the root systems.

Thanks - a useful tip.

 

Our block is on a slope - with erosion being a problem/challenge due to water runoff occurring in 2 directions.   Any suggestions about where we can get some advice about the best counter-measures (we have planted some vertiver grass but that seems to only offer a very limited, partial solution).  Am thinking we need to get someone knowledgeable to undertake a site inspection.  The Tessabaan hasn't provided any suggestions - worth noting that a creek runs along some land that is owned by the Government and which abuts our block.

 

Thanks!

 

   

[sometimewoodworker]

13 hours ago, dinga said:

we have planted some vertiver grass but that seems to only offer a very limited, partial solution

Well HRH R9 instituted the erosion control program. So you say “some” vertiver and limited solution. Without actually giving any details about when, how much, care of the grass etc

HRH was certainly of the opinion that correctly planted & and with good management it was a good option. There are likely to be temporary solutions while the grass takes hold.

 

However you should approach the people who actually study the subject, for us that is Khon Kaen university agriculture department . But you have kept your location secret by not filling in your profile, so I have no idea if it’s near you. You could also ask the military as they run courses for the conscripts on farming 

Edited January 5, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[Encid]

We have also contacted an architect in Bangkok whose design style and ideas we like from following his FB page.

 

I produced preliminary layouts to scale using AutoCAD software, then sent them to the architect for further "architectural embellishment" before progressing to final detailed design construction drawings that can be used for bidding on by building contractors, and for submission to local authorities for permission to build (if needed).

 

Our plan is to first drive the piles for both our guest house and the main house. This will be a single mobilization for the pile driving equipment, although we plan to build the main house much later... after the sale of our current house in Najomtien.

 

Second we will build the guest house. This will give us somewhere to put our personal belongings while we sell our current house, and will provide us with an on-site presence for daily observation of the construction of our main house.

 

The guest house will be a simple building based on a 4m x 3m column grid system, comprising a single bedroom, a single bathroom, and an open dining/living area, with a wrap around deck elevated about 60cm above grade.

 

Internal area will be about 68 sq.m. which is adequate for our needs.

Total area including external decking is about 120 sq.m.

Most of our cooking will be done outside in the Thai kitchen on the deck.

 

 

A car port will be added to the South side of the structure, which will provide shade from the worst of the sun, as well as protection for 2 x water tanks and a pump.

 

The construction is to be based on piled foundations, using driven piles (22cm x 22cm x 6m long).

 

The West side of the structure will have no windows at all, and will be constructed of a cavity wall made of 2 layers of 7.5cm AAC blocks with a 5cm cavity in the middle. I have not yet decided whether to further insulate this by inserting foam sheets into the cavity, but this is an option.

 

All other walls (both internal and external) will be constructed using a single layer of 7.5cm AAC blocks.

 

All windows and sliding doors will be double glazed with uPVC frames. We will also look at low-E options, as well as films.

 

All (positive) comments and further suggestions for improvements (or things to watch out for) would be welcome.

[Muhendis]

13 minutes ago, Encid said:

which will provide shade from the worst of the sun, as well as protection for 2 x water tanks and a pump.

And strong enough for megawatts of solar panels.

 

15 minutes ago, Encid said:

Most of our cooking will be done outside in the Thai kitchen on the deck.

You seem a bit light on worktop space in the kitchen areas.

[Muhendis]

On 1/4/2023 at 6:05 PM, Encid said:

This time they dug down to a depth of 1.5 metres before planting the poles then back-filling the entire holes with concrete mixed on site.

Brilliant

Pity they didn't do that 1st time.