Corruption by locals outside Ministry of Foreign Affairs

[MrJ2U]

11 hours ago, WEBBYB808 said:

I dont mind needing or using an agent, but one should have a choice and not be forced or extorted  into using one, just because  the system is set up to allow the locals to take all the queues and sell them to tourist, locals and people that come from other province's. 

I agree.

 

In the twenty years I've been here it's just been that way unfortunately.

[WEBBYB808]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:37 AM, Thingamabob said:

You must be very new to Thailand, and to Asia in general. In this part of the world many people have to make money to survive any way they can. What you are referring to in your verbose, self-righteous posting is petty corruption. If you can't tolerate it I suggest you should find somewhere else to live.

 

Self righteous!  Lol...  nothing self righteous  about taking up for oneself.   True it is petty but on a mass scale, and small dents are put into these racketeering  scams when people stand up for themselves.   True these peolle cant work an honest job Because  the national  wage is too low, and as a whole they haven't had an age of enlightenment or a reall industrial revolution. as child labor exust, and if you buy trinkets on the street from a child because you feel sorry for him, then you are supporting child abuse and supporting a child not getting to be a child.  Self righteous,  I would say something  to you but then you'd be all self righteous  and report me.  I disagree with turn tale like a coward and leave, but we can see thats your stance by your words, but to fight for right is self righteous... really do you have a degree in anything  other than what you're slinging.   You seem happy to bend over and take one for the team, rather than syand up and stop the team from ever having to take one.  Self righteous... Im sure youll reply  all self righteous  now.  We await your response.   Self righteous. 

[WEBBYB808]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:09 PM, allanos said:

Clearly the OP has never lived in Africa!

 

He would be outraged at every turn. Thailand is an absolute pleasure, by comparison.

I think I would be shocked.  Thanks for that information 

[WEBBYB808]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:52 PM, chilly07 said:

Could be not following a queueing system that has been put in place for everyones convenience??? Reference to criminal activity seems a bit harsh. Parking in front of someone's premises will often bring a strong response and I suspect this has happened many times before.

Basically,  the translators are in force scanning the qr code and taking all the slots.  If someone  from out of town or doesn't  now know you have to schedule and appointment,  at an empty building, not anyone there except  the translation  mafia, waiting for people to walk up, with what should be a simple document  turn in, and pick up and pay,  you can not just drop them off.  The translators  have scanned and reserved all the queues in their names.  If you need a document completed quickly  then you will be forced to pay, 400 to translate per document. 500 for the queue, and 1100 to mail it to you.  It wasn't just me, there were Thais, and others that wanted or needed to simply turn in documents,  a simple drop box would work,  they have nothing better to do un their life than to do this scam  on people.  They even have a stack of documents that one must sign authorizing  them to do.  Its a racket its corrupt  and its real. 

[WEBBYB808]

2 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

No thug is approaching me.

 

I regard what you describe as useful help. I dont feel threatened.

In my experience angry self righteous people like you need standing up to. You are the problem. You are a trouble maker. You asked for people's opinions and you got them. .Most people disagree with you.

Nope! You are the one who willingly bends over and takes whats thrown at you by your own words, and you sheep are the problems.  Thats why they keep doing it to you.  I know I cant win all the battles but at least I try.  Lets see , bib stop us and say give 300 thb, but we stood up said no give us a ticket.   They ket us go, you would sheepishly pay the illegal  fine and keep perpetuating the situation,  roll over and take it, so the next person  gets done the same.  2nd some A hole chains our tires drags our truck errects a sign and tells us to pay 500thb.  No we went right to police A hole had to give us truck back, apologize,  and pay for damages, as we contacted  insurance  company.   We paid nothing, got our truck back, but you again would toll over accept your fate, by your own words.  You must be so, proud to tell everyone your're yellow and enjoy being taken advantage  of.  You Sir, are the problem.  In reality! Most people disagree  with you.  

[howlee101]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:37 AM, Thingamabob said:

You must be very new to Thailand, and to Asia in general. In this part of the world many people have to make money to survive any way they can. What you are referring to in your verbose, self-righteous posting is petty corruption. If you can't tolerate it I suggest you should find somewhere else to live.

 

While I'm not condoning the practice, I have to agree to the premise "it is what it is".  I recall back in 1984 when stationed in the Philippines.  My first child was born at a military hospital (Clark Air Base) and I had to go downtown to some office to register/apply for a Philippines birth certificate.  I walk in with all the paperwork but was told I needed an "official stamp" from city hall (or some government office).  Of course I didn't have the "official stamp" but the lady told me to go outside and get the stamps from the kids selling them.  So I go outside, find a kid selling the stamps, paid a dollar or two, went back inside and gave them to the lady.  She affixed the stamps to the birth certificate and I was on my way.

 

Another quick story....I got married in the Philippines in the early 80's.  Philippines law required a "marriage class" before getting married.  There was a filipino judge assigned to the main gate at Clark Air Base...I went to him to ask if he could perform the marriage ceremony but he informed me of this required "class" I needed to attend. I asked if he could "help" with that requirement....he stated "blah, blah, blah"....I interrupted him and ask "how much".  Without missing a beat, he said "$30".  I paid the "fee", the marriage vows were performed and I was on my way.  Pay to play for convenience.

[WEBBYB808]

4 hours ago, Maestro said:

The way I understand the system for booking an appointment at the MFA, everybody has an equal right and opportunity to book an appointment, regardless of immigration status, nationality, profession or place of residence.

Yes  but you didn't need to book an appointment  until Starting  last September.   So if you dont know of the change, or understand the small print QR code in Thai on their web page,  then you will be at the mercy of the So called agents that have filled up the slots two weeks out, so people in arrival have no chance.  You will be forced to pay the extortionists racketeers if you are pressed for time or need it in a hurry.  They have all applied for the queues and are holding them for ransom so yo speak, but then it get better, because  the cues in their name, you cant just take their spot.  You have to sign a form giving them permission  to do for you.  When I was there, for two hours 13:30-15:30 not a soul approached the window.  There was no line, there was no one dropping off documents,  just the, "agents," sitting there waiting on prey.  Not a soul at the windows not one, and they refused to see us because  we didnt have the queue.  When I scanned it the first available  was the week of 12 March.  Now why is there a queue when there are no people there to turn in documents  except  the scammers?  If you are not aware of the change in policy, a small fine print pop up on their website,  and you show up just to turn in a document,  then you are going to be a victim if you are pressed for time.  The supervisor knows exactly  whats going on, and when I explained  to the ladies at the window, they were talking to each other and they agreed its a scam snd its wrong.  I the supervisor came out, and all he could say is, "I dont know!"

[WEBBYB808]

5 minutes ago, howlee101 said:

While I'm not condoning the practice, I have to agree to the premise "it is what it is".  I recall back in 1984 when stationed in the Philippines.  My first child was born at a military hospital (Clark Air Base) and I had to go downtown to some office to register/apply for a Philippines birth certificate.  I walk in with all the paperwork but was told I needed an "official stamp" from city hall (or some government office).  Of course I didn't have the "official stamp" but the lady told me to go outside and get the stamps from the kids selling them.  So I go outside, find a kid selling the stamps, paid a dollar or two, went back inside and gave them to the lady.  She affixed the stamps to the birth certificate and I was on my way.

 

Another quick story....I got married in the Philippines in the early 80's.  Philippines law required a "marriage class" before getting married.  There was a filipino judge assigned to the main gate at Clark Air Base...I went to him to ask if he could perform the marriage ceremony but he informed me of this required "class" I needed to attend. I asked if he could "help" with that requirement....he stated "blah, blah, blah"....I interrupted him and ask "how much".  Without missing a beat, he said "$30".  I paid the "fee", the marriage vows were performed and I was on my way.  Pay to play for convenience.

Yes Sir!  I do get it,  I guess I had just got my fill as it was the tird attempt to extort us in two days, except in this instance it should have been a simple drop off.  Yes, racketeering does happen.   Art this point I just wish everyone who has to go there knows you have to book an appointment  well in advance.  A stamp you say.  All that held you up from a legitimate  process.  Hey!  Thanks for sharing. 

[howlee101]

4 minutes ago, WEBBYB808 said:

Yes Sir!  I do get it,  I guess I had just got my fill as it was the tird attempt to extort us in two days, except in this instance it should have been a simple drop off.  Yes, racketeering does happen.   Art this point I just wish everyone who has to go there knows you have to book an appointment  well in advance.  A stamp you say.  All that held you up from a legitimate  process.  Hey!  Thanks for sharing. 

Your welcome.  Wish me luck.....in a few days is my first Non-O extension (one year-Thai wife) so hopefully it goes smoothly.  I have checked and double checked but I'm sure something will be "missing" or incorrect ????

[WEBBYB808]

6 minutes ago, howlee101 said:

Your welcome.  Wish me luck.....in a few days is my first Non-O extension (one year-Thai wife) so hopefully it goes smoothly.  I have checked and double checked but I'm sure something will be "missing" or incorrect ????

Knock on wood so it doesn't  go sideways.   Good luck hope it goes very smoothly for you.

[LukKrueng]

So you come to live in a foreign country by your own choice, you don't like how things are done here, and instead of going back home or looking for another place that suits you better you try to swim against the current and change things to suit you? 

I'm pretty sure that if everything here was like "back home" most members of this forum would not be here to begin with...

[OneMoreFarang]

This is obviously an unacceptable situation and you should consider drastic measures.

Post it on facebook!

And, yes, I mean it. That seems to be the only way in Thailand to get attention.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

So you come to live in a foreign country by your own choice, you don't like how things are done here, and instead of going back home or looking for another place that suits you better you try to swim against the current and change things to suit you? 

I'm pretty sure that if everything here was like "back home" most members of this forum would not be here to begin with...

Thats a ridiculous response... 

 

When we go to a government office and need a queue ticket to approach a counter what happens when the counter is completely empty and there are ‘unofficial people' hanging around who have taken all the queue tickets and are selling them ????....  What do you do ?... is it acceptable that you pay someone so you can queue up ?

 

Objecting to this isn’t swimming against the tide, its objecting small time extortion. 

 

Extortion may seem like a strong word and it doesn't always mean with the threat of violence, but in this case the ‘group of people’ hanging around the front who have taken all the tickets are extorting money from those who need to queue. 

 

There is no way of polishing this, it clearly happens under the noses of officials who are too lazy to do do anything about it.

 

What happens another time? the people (un-official) set up their own check-point outside of the office and start charging people for entry into the building ??.. Does that seem far fetched ??.... 

 

To be honest, it seems far fetched that people are taking all the queue tickets and are charging for them, yet this is clearly happening... and why is it happening ? because the officials are being palmed a bit of the bribe to allow this to happen. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

15 hours ago, howlee101 said:

Your welcome.  Wish me luck.....in a few days is my first Non-O extension (one year-Thai wife) so hopefully it goes smoothly.  I have checked and double checked but I'm sure something will be "missing" or incorrect ????

Take your Wife with you... this was something I missed a couple of years ago and usually I would just do something by myself and not bother my wife with the hassle. 

Fortunately, that time she came with me - I had no idea this was a requirement !!!

 

we were ‘slightly tripped up’... I had a copy of the Bank Book, a Bank Letter and a printout of 6 months Bank Statements....  BUT... the copy of the Bank Book was from the day before and they wouldn’t accept it, I had to go back to SCB to get another print out of the Bank Book (not no SCB at Government Complex Chaeng Wattana - I had to go to Big C down the road). 

 

So... ensure your Bank Book is up to date on the day of application. 

[uncommonomo]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:36 PM, mtls2005 said:

Paragraphs, please.

 

I mean unless you're Jack Kerouac.

 

 

This style is very disrespectful for your reader. I gave up after the first two sentences.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not sure where to put this, but I feel I must put this out there if it can help another individual.   What I am about to write does not relate to or point the finger at the Thai Ministry  of Foreign  Affairs,  but to the individuals that are hanging outside and targeting  tourist, locals, out of towners, and anyone needing to get in to get a simple stamp from the MFA. 

 

What should be a simple process has now turned into the next scam.  Let me back up a second.  Having read and been privy  to witness 3 other scams in the last three days, I can tell you how this all is the normal.  I would think any tourist or anyone wishing to visit should understand  the grafting and racketeering that takes place at every turn.

 

First I read in the forums that there were individuals at Bali Hai extorting money to park and the authorities  got involved. Next a lady friend of mine parked her truck and a local decided to chain her tires, tow it away, erect no parking signs after the fact, and tried to extort money from her, she went to the police and of course they made the criminal  give her truck back, next we are riding through toll station and her sticker has expired.  I felt of course she should be ticketed, but the individual  that pulled her to the side asked for a small amount.  She refused and asked for a ticket.  The individual  promptly handed her license  back and we were on our way, which brings me to the latest  that I wish someone would do something  about. 

 

I know the country continues  to preach anti corruption,  so when I see it happening  right outside  the MFA I cant help but think how large of a facade is that statement.   Ok so, today I have an appointment  at my Embassy, in and out less than 20 min.  Got the stamp.  We drive to MFA for translation  of documents,  easy enough and then we should be able to walk to window hand in documents  to get the stamp and return a day or so later to pick up, but that’s not the case.  We went up to MFA window, not a person there waiting to been seen.  No one, not one person.  The ladies were sitting at their window waiting.  I attempted to hand in my documents  but they said I needed a cue.  Are you hearing this there was no one there, and the cue is a QR code.  So I walk over to scan to get a cue and it says next available  10 March, two weeks out. 

 

We drove from Issan, not one person there.  What has happened  is the locals that live in Bangkok have applied and taken the cues and are holding them for ransom.  How do I know this? Because its fact, they have the cue and have you sign a piece of paper giving them the authority to turn in a document for you.  It cost nothing for the stamp.  You pay them to translate, and to turn in and give back to you.  You cant get the cue unless you physically  walk in and scan the qr.  I approached the supervisor, who played the, "I don’t know" card.  He don’t know and he's the supervisor.  Not one person was there to walk to the window.  It's all the criminals outside, extorting money from Thais and foreigners,  and no ones doing anything about it either  they don’t know or don’t care. 

 

It's the same kind of extortion that’s happened  for Parking at Bali Hai, and seems to be growing.  These four criminal  activities  all happened in less than three days.  If anyone needs to go to MFA, or anywhere do your diligence and find out in advance  if there is walk in or a cue.  If there is a cue you just might run into extortionists,  and its not being curbed at the facility.  

 

So when I seen that I couldn't be seen for 14 days and we drove down from Issan.  The criminal  told me she could get it done in three days, and mail to me.  500thb for the cue! How does one fight corruption  like this that should lot be happening  in first place?  Why are they allowing or ignoring  it at MFA?

Edited February 28, 2022 by uncommonomo

[howlee101]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Take your Wife with you... this was something I missed a couple of years ago and usually I would just do something by myself and not bother my wife with the hassle. 

Fortunately, that time she came with me - I had no idea this was a requirement !!!

 

we were ‘slightly tripped up’... I had a copy of the Bank Book, a Bank Letter and a printout of 6 months Bank Statements....  BUT... the copy of the Bank Book was from the day before and they wouldn’t accept it, I had to go back to SCB to get another print out of the Bank Book (not no SCB at Government Complex Chaeng Wattana - I had to go to Big C down the road). 

 

So... ensure your Bank Book is up to date on the day of application. 

Thanks.  The wife goes with me always....she's my driver, translator, and mediator (especially with immigrations).  I know that about the "same day for the bank book" (which makes absolutely zero sense) but thanks for the reminder/advice.  

[bbko]

We could try and break the system by everyone here making an appointment, take all we can get then not show up.  Maybe once the higher-ups see the appointment system is broke they'll change it.

[Maestro]

18 hours ago, howlee101 said:

Your welcome.  Wish me luck.....in a few days is my first Non-O extension (one year-Thai wife) so hopefully it goes smoothly.  I have checked and double checked but I'm sure something will be "missing" or incorrect ????

You will have a problem with your non-O extension if you go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to get it.

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats a ridiculous response... 

 

When we go to a government office and need a queue ticket to approach a counter what happens when the counter is completely empty and there are ‘unofficial people' hanging around who have taken all the queue tickets and are selling them ????....  What do you do ?... is it acceptable that you pay someone so you can queue up ?

 

Objecting to this isn’t swimming against the tide, its objecting small time extortion. 

 

Extortion may seem like a strong word and it doesn't always mean with the threat of violence, but in this case the ‘group of people’ hanging around the front who have taken all the tickets are extorting money from those who need to queue. 

 

There is no way of polishing this, it clearly happens under the noses of officials who are too lazy to do do anything about it.

 

What happens another time? the people (un-official) set up their own check-point outside of the office and start charging people for entry into the building ??.. Does that seem far fetched ??.... 

 

To be honest, it seems far fetched that people are taking all the queue tickets and are charging for them, yet this is clearly happening... and why is it happening ? because the officials are being palmed a bit of the bribe to allow this to happen. 

 

 

 

 

You miss the point. That's how things work here. You're trying to follow your own logic. That doesn't work here. Adapt or get upset every time. Up to you. 

[WEBBYB808]

6 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

So you come to live in a foreign country by your own choice, you don't like how things are done here, and instead of going back home or looking for another place that suits you better you try to swim against the current and change things to suit you? 

I'm pretty sure that if everything here was like "back home" most members of this forum would not be here to begin with...

Right on!