Post-harvesting mechnization in Thailand - Combine harvesters and balers

[Postharvesting]

I am trying to understand region wise mechanization level in post-harvesting in Thailand.

Equipment 1 : Combine harvester

Crops: Corn

What is region-wise row spacing for planting corns in Thailand? Who are the leading players? How much % share of corn combine harvesters in the total combine harvester market?

Is corn market size expected to increase in Thailand?

 

Equipment 2: Baler

Crop: Rice and Sugarcane

Does it have presence of used, imported or new balers?

Demand expected increase in Thailand? By what %?

Demand drivers or inhibitors?

Are small or big balers popular in Thailand? Small balers 95%

Round or square balers are popular in Thailand?

Who are the leading players? 

Government policies encouraging Baling instead or burning?

 

Thank you so much for your help in advance!

Regards

[Nojohndoe]

A intriguing multiple of questions. I suspect in attempt to ascertain potential market.

Perhaps  now there is a greater potential to  supply  a market that is  being  compelled rather than volunteering to find/pay/source alternatives to the  established  methodology of burning off crop waste.

The traditional methods which now  significantly insult the perceptions of pollutive impact are sadly biased to methods which remove components rather than restore them to the soil of origin. That may satisfy  to a degree the social expectations  but does  more than worse in  depleting same soils.

Fibrous waste is being  removed for opportunist  gains to the  incremental disadvantage of  small  crop farmers and more importantly the  very soil they  subsist  on !

If there were to be an enterprise that was interested in developing an affordable mechanized system that could demonstrate an effective chaffing capacity that  would  enable at  very least return  the organic waste residues to the local soil it was derived from in a form that  enabled the  degeneration of it at least in assisting humis containment I would seriously consider  investment.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Nojohndoe
word misink !

[Postharvesting]

Thank you Nojohndoe for your quick response. I really appreciate your response. However I would like to understand the topic even deeper.

- Since burning straw is being discouraged in Thailand. Is there any law which prohibits burning of the crops?

- Is government providing support for purchasing of the bailers? or running any program to promote the bailing of the straw instead of burning it?

-  Do Thai farmers prefer to buy own Bailers or do they rent it from other farmers or do they give bailing contracts to the contractors? If, yes what are the terms?

 

[Nojohndoe]

1 hour ago, Postharvesting said:

Thank you Nojohndoe for your quick response. I really appreciate your response. However I would like to understand the topic even deeper.

- Since burning straw is being discouraged in Thailand. Is there any law which prohibits burning of the crops?

- Is government providing support for purchasing of the bailers? or running any program to promote the bailing of the straw instead of burning it?

-  Do Thai farmers prefer to buy own Bailers or do they rent it from other farmers or do they give bailing contracts to the contractors? If, yes what are the terms?

 

There are or have been seasonal edicts prohibiting burn offs which I think are mostly Provincial  backed by Central Govt. endorsment but like so many things  generally get ignored. Having said that there does seem to have been less burning and more  baling this year of rice straw at least but sadly am noticing the  black smoke announcing the inevitable black snow from cane !

Few farmers invest in major machinery basically  because returns from crops are no way capable of servicing purchase debt. . The braver ones who do commit  rely on earnings from fellow small croppers in addition to their own ( Family collective ? ). I have  never yet  come across  a full time  agricultural "Contractor"  in our  vicinity but in other places they possibly exist. That applies to  balers as well. In fact most machinery other than tractors.

Originally I bought a near new small Kubota 3408 that for the very reduced  cash price  came with several attachments and a trailer. 16 years back there were far  fewer tractors and the demand was growing. Now although there are many, bigger, better (?) and at times people willing to pay must wait due to various factors  such as but not only the weather. 

It has been a long time (Years) since I have allowed my poor wee tractor to be abused on behalf of others basically because in the time I have had it and the work it has done for me/us that goes way beyond std seasonal crop usage I defer to those who need the income to service debt taken on that co-incidentally caters to the  needs of the greater community.

My stance briefly came under discussion until it thankfully became understood. The only permanently disgruntled was a brother in law who initially was driving it who lost his opportunity to do side jobs presuming I could not read the hour meter or would not question why on some days the fuel usage mysteriously spiked.

Please do  not assume I have a negative opinion in the  overall subject. I am am merely attempting to illustrate that while there is a genuine  need for those who increasingly are becoming dependent on mechanized methods that there need be an evaluation the  practicality versus the advantage in investing in machinery.

On a different scale combine harvesters I have observed to be a nightmare in maintenance mostly due to the  operational environment they are unsuited for. An exception perhaps for sugar cane harvesters.

I could easily digress into allied topics  but if specifically you want an opinion as to investment in a straw baler I would suggest to  consider  immediate need and any outside  usage a dubious capital return relative to operational cost. Last I heard was 25 Baht per  bale . AND you  need to understand that the compaction level of balers can be altered. As in ..loose bales are many more than tight ones.

 

 

[IsaanAussie]

Interesting dialogue between you guys. I would suggest you bring this to the main Farming Forum to get a wider audience.

I have been interested in balers here for twenty years. The first to appear here in Isaan were very secondhand small square balers that were imported by the container load from places like Australia. At the time Australia was moving to large rounds and the old ones were scrap metal. Fifteen years ago I could buy a "rebuilt" baler here in Sisaket for about 50K baht. Some were rebuilt using only the baling segment onto pickup chassis and used as static units to load manually from straw piles from the threshers. 

Currently the import tax laws have changed and secondhand implements are not favoured. Kubota assemble a category 1/2 baler here in Thailand which I believe will gain market share.

The main change here is the fact that the harvesters leave windrowed straw which makes baling the straw a simple task. But as with all things the farmer here has little money to pay subcontractors, so it is extremely price sensitive.

I have looked very closely at importing a baler to make small round bales. Plans on hold until the current global situation normalises.

[kickstart]

 

Carrying on from IA . corn row spacings are 30 inches ,as for the big players ,they are basicly CP and Betagro ,but no farmer is contracted out to them, they are all on they own ,they sell they  crop to the middle man who will dry and clean the corn ,it is them that will sell it on to the feed mills.

As for combine harvesters  all are second hand imports ,they will still cost a few million baht ,we have two corn buyers in my area who have combines one runs JD'John Deer's the other has 3 Class combines ,with the cost of buying a new one  haulage and import tax ,they would be way out of reach of most corn buyers .

Will the corn market increase ?how long is a piece of string ,Thailand has been growing corn for 60 years ,it all depends on price and weather ,for the past few years I would say the market has been static ,price has not been good ,a few year's ago corn was coming in from Cambodia cheaper than Thailand could grow it ,also we have had a few drought years a lot of corn farmers lost they entire first crop,a lot of farmers can not grow anything else ,to bigger investment ie, this year 100 k baht to plough and plant 25 rie of sugar cane

As for balers the first balers in Thailand were second hand imported New Holland ,but now Italian Cicoria are popular along with Kubota ,the Kubota are getting more popular probably due to Kubota doing good deals on HP.

I would say 90% of bales are small balers mainly because no one can handle big bales ,your Thai dairy farmer with his 15 cows would not want and 1/2 ton big bales to move with no tractor.

Will the market increase I would say no ,all the dairy farmers buy in their rice straw the straw merchants will buy,bale and transport the straw and sell it to the dairy farmers .

They are no big players, all are just small businesses .

Over the past 3 years baling sugar cane straw has become popular ,for this second hand imported big  high density  balers are used ,one will cost about 650K baht,the straw is sold to our local sugar mill used as a biofuel to boil molasses for ethylal alcohol. 

Government policy ,they say stop burning around here no sugar cane has been burned ,one reason the sugar mill will deduct about 200 baht ton for burnt cane being delivered to the mill ,that is the profit for  a cane farmer ,now 50-60 % ? of cane is harvested using again second cane harvester imported a lot come from Brazil and Australia one machine is about 2.5-3 million baht ,one locale farmer this year got one from the sugar mill for 1.7 million baht a bargain .

[Postharvesting]

What are the 1/2 balers by Kubota?

isn’t Siam baler popular in Thailand?

Is Siam baler and Kubota the same?Kubota’s website doesn’t have a mention of any balers. 

[Postharvesting]

Why farmers buy 2nd hand harvesters or balers?

isn’t buying new equipment convenient as they can get retail finance support?

is there any retail finance support for buying old equipment ?

[IsaanAussie]

3 hours ago, Postharvesting said:

Why farmers buy 2nd hand harvesters or balers?

isn’t buying new equipment convenient as they can get retail finance support?

is there any retail finance support for buying old equipment ?

Can I suggest you do some research on the recent development of Thai farming from a local farmer perspective? Start with the reality of a nation upended in 1997 by the economic crisis when everything stopped. A time when over 70% of Thai people were regarded as subsistence farmers who had no income and paid no tax. 

[kickstart]

4 hours ago, Postharvesting said:

Why farmers buy 2nd hand harvesters or balers?

isn’t buying new equipment convenient as they can get retail finance support?

is there any retail finance support for buying old equipment ?

Try reading my post ,and as IA said do some research in to Thai farming,I said Thais buy second-hand kit for it is cheaper than buying new IA has a second-hand compact tractor Farmerjo has one I have one a 20hp tractor we brought 15 years ago 72000 baht it does a us OK noway could we justifi 300k on a new tractor,we are farmers not looking for Boys Toys.

Look around why do you see so many Ford tractors ,one can be brought for 400k ,a simple tractor can be fixed easily and not that expensive,to  rebuild one from the ground up about 70-80k baht ,then the amount they get used, no more problems for the next 10 years ,a cheap tractor.

Of course they is finance support ,it is called Tor-Kor-Sor in Thai ,the Bank of Farmers and Farming Co-op's ,they will give loans to buy tractors and equipment. 

[Postharvesting]

So as per my primary research with the 2nd hand machinery dealers, these dealers are slowly moving away from the 2nd hand machinery business to the new machinery. Main reason being not much price difference in old and new machinery. As imported machineries have become expensive because of the local taxes and locally purchased agri machineries are expensive due the spiked prices during the auction. This is a point of view from the supplier side.

 

I want to verify the farmer's point of view. So with your answer can I conclude that there will be used machinery demand. because farmers still prefer to buy pre-owned agricultural equipment because it's good quality and lasts for a long time.

 

Tor-Kor-Sor is it applicable for buying used machinery as well?

 

My intention of asking questions is to verify details. Thank you in advance for your quick responses! 

[kickstart]

21 hours ago, Postharvesting said:

I want to verify the farmer's point of view. So with your answer can I conclude that there will be used machinery demand. because farmers still prefer to buy pre-owned agricultural equipment because it's good quality and lasts for a long time

It is not so that it last a long time ,but saying that the acreage machinery dose in Thailand would be less than done in our countries, so it will last longer it is all to do with the cost of the machinery 

Like I said a second hand combine would be 3 million baht ,a new one plus taxes ect 5-6 million  baht ,no way could anyone make that pay interest charges on borrowed money  and running cost would eat the profits .

Like a sugar cane harvester 2-3million baht second hand new cost ??,and remember it is only used for 3-4 months of the year .

It is not the Farmer's Bank that buys the machinery, like all banks they loan out money ,they can see that a new combine/cane harvester would not make financial sense for them.   

[Postharvesting]

On 2/26/2022 at 5:58 PM, Nojohndoe said:

There are or have been seasonal edicts prohibiting burn offs which I think are mostly Provincial  backed by Central Govt. endorsment but like so many things  generally get ignored. Having said that there does seem to have been less burning and more  baling this year of rice straw at least but sadly am noticing the  black smoke announcing the inevitable black snow from cane !

Few farmers invest in major machinery basically  because returns from crops are no way capable of servicing purchase debt. . The braver ones who do commit  rely on earnings from fellow small croppers in addition to their own ( Family collective ? ). I have  never yet  come across  a full time  agricultural "Contractor"  in our  vicinity but in other places they possibly exist. That applies to  balers as well. In fact most machinery other than tractors.

Originally I bought a near new small Kubota 3408 that for the very reduced  cash price  came with several attachments and a trailer. 16 years back there were far  fewer tractors and the demand was growing. Now although there are many, bigger, better (?) and at times people willing to pay must wait due to various factors  such as but not only the weather. 

It has been a long time (Years) since I have allowed my poor wee tractor to be abused on behalf of others basically because in the time I have had it and the work it has done for me/us that goes way beyond std seasonal crop usage I defer to those who need the income to service debt taken on that co-incidentally caters to the  needs of the greater community.

My stance briefly came under discussion until it thankfully became understood. The only permanently disgruntled was a brother in law who initially was driving it who lost his opportunity to do side jobs presuming I could not read the hour meter or would not question why on some days the fuel usage mysteriously spiked.

Please do  not assume I have a negative opinion in the  overall subject. I am am merely attempting to illustrate that while there is a genuine  need for those who increasingly are becoming dependent on mechanized methods that there need be an evaluation the  practicality versus the advantage in investing in machinery.

On a different scale combine harvesters I have observed to be a nightmare in maintenance mostly due to the  operational environment they are unsuited for. An exception perhaps for sugar cane harvesters.

I could easily digress into allied topics  but if specifically you want an opinion as to investment in a straw baler I would suggest to  consider  immediate need and any outside  usage a dubious capital return relative to operational cost. Last I heard was 25 Baht per  bale . AND you  need to understand that the compaction level of balers can be altered. As in ..loose bales are many more than tight ones.

 

 

Can you elaborate why combine harvesters are difficult to maintain? What conditions make it unsuitable?

[thoongfoned]

On 2/27/2022 at 4:11 PM, Postharvesting said:

Why farmers buy 2nd hand harvesters or balers?

isn’t buying new equipment convenient as they can get retail finance support?

is there any retail finance support for buying old equipment ? do you know/talk to a thai person that that has bough or tried to get finance on something? maybe good to start here.?

maybe go to your local kubota dealer/ go speak to the government bank and see what terms they will want to finance something? gov bank will loan around 40% of current land value

[Nojohndoe]

46 minutes ago, Postharvesting said:

Can you elaborate why combine harvesters are difficult to maintain? What conditions make it unsuitable?

From observing the operating conditions ( in local Isaan ) where the traditional paddy format is usually small requires the harvesters to cope with frequent turning, major variations in wet conditions, bucking and diving over paddy field embankments while trying not to miss or crush  crop. All of theses cause rapid deterioration the mechanical wear and tear because even the smaller machines are designed for crop terrain with consistently larger dimensions and conditions.

Track damage is common, also bar and cutter which leads to jam ups which in turn stress the feed auger etc.

Promotional material that attempts to sell these machines always shows them operating in scenarios that rarely resemble the reality in Thailand. It  needs a shift in the crop farmer's understanding traditional concepts are not altogether compatible with machinery.

 

[Postharvesting]

Is that a reason why farmers go for heavy combine harvesters even though they are expensive? 

[Nojohndoe]

It may be that in terms of viable "agricultural contractor" capacity the opportunity does/ is beginning to  exist for those prepared to transport to and from areas where second/ multiple annual crops are possible.

A few  years back I noted that at times there were  almost "convoys" of especially the larger  harvesters moving across from central Thailand to the northeast for the seasonal flush.

I am not sure if these larger machines are any less vulnerable to damage but that despite that any earnings overall help offset purchase debt rather than them parked up in downtime.

Rice harvesting being very dependent on "window of best opportunity" and so given the undeniable difficulty in procuring manual workers for the task there is more and more reliance  being put on  mechanical harvesting. Problematic of course is the demand exceeds capacity during that short window. Entrepreneurial individuals often invest in some worn down used machine that proves unreliable, inefficient due either to unskilled operation or simply unfit anymore to achieve purpose or both which I have seen leave seed on the ground that if to remain viable through to the next growing season is more than double capable of competing with any attempt at the sowing of superior seed.