Department Store Copying Credit Card Details Into Huge Hardcopy Ledger

[Shrubbery]

Shrubbery, I see you've only got 111 posts to your name. When you've been here longer, you'll realise that sensible, practical and responsible advice isn't appreciated.

Instead, you get more friends if you blubber away about how shitty everything is and how every single Thai person, Thai business and Thai institution exists solely to screw over the poor white farang.

Don't worry about getting it wrong here. You'll soon learn our ways . . .

I have noticed that already.

[lazeeboy]

Shrubbery, I see you've only got 111 posts to your name. When you've been here longer, you'll realise that sensible, practical and responsible advice isn't appreciated.

Instead, you get more friends if you blubber away about how shitty everything is and how every single Thai person, Thai business and Thai institution exists solely to screw over the poor white farang.

Don't worry about getting it wrong here. You'll soon learn our ways . . .

I have noticed that already.

if theres a copy of your card and is used call the bank and they refund your account its that simple ,even in thailand

[expatwannabe]

Shrubbery, I see you've only got 111 posts to your name. When you've been here longer, you'll realise that sensible, practical and responsible advice isn't appreciated.

Instead, you get more friends if you blubber away about how shitty everything is and how every single Thai person, Thai business and Thai institution exists solely to screw over the poor white farang.

Don't worry about getting it wrong here. You'll soon learn our ways . . .

So after a year of posting in thaivisa, you know everything about Thailand. And now you're native. Or enough so that you would steadfastly criticize anyone who would dare speak ill of it. At the same time, you've decided that your own advice is "sensible, practical and responsible." The perfect contrast, no?

You should be proud. I'm sure any number of farangs will read your post and realize how any cashier who writes down their credit information is doing it for good reason. And the security code? Yes, they'll need that too. Just for the record. 'Cuz nothing untoward happens here. This is the land of angelic Thais and bitter, acrimonious foreigners.

[junkofdavid2]

I agree that there are both advantages and disadvantages living in Thailand and anywhere in the world.

However, the way Bendix always seems to so passionately be Thailand's "knight in shining armor" to defend it to the death in everything is just completely bizarre...

Not saying he's "wrong", not at all, to each his own... the word for it is "bizarre".

Not telling him to change either, we can all do what we want... it just totally puzzles me.

Kinda reminds me of my friend Gabriel who loved his car soooo much (it was a tiny Korean car, Kia Pride, although that was all he could afford), to the point that he seemed to even be making himself believe that it could outrun a BMW and had better safety features than a Volvo.

No offense to him, we all have our preferences... Again, I just find it so puzzling and "bizarre"...

[kmart]

Whatever. I like the fact that good, old-fashioned cash is still king here in Thailand.

[THAILIBAN]

I've always put a strong sticker to cover up my CCV number - and memorise it.

this simple advise seems to be too good to be true..... dont they need this 3-digit-code when u purchase something in a shop ? never had any problems with that ? or did they ask u for the code and u told them the numbers ? if so, they could write it down somewhere as well....

I used credit cards without any problems for almost 15 years..... until I came to Thailand (I have been to many other places in Asia for longer stays before).

here in Thailand my CC-details were stolen 2 times within 8 months, one time in Bumrungrad hospital (!!!), where i was stuck at the ICU and had to hand them over my card as I was not able to go to the accounting office myself, and the other time it most probably happened at that specific "well-known and reputable" cyber-cafe in Pattaya, were those KEYLOGGERS were found recently.... ("pattaya today" reported about that case few months ago)

Edited June 17, 2007 by THAILIBAN

[sukanyacondo]

I agree that there are both advantages and disadvantages living in Thailand and anywhere in the world.

However, the way Bendix always seems to so passionately be Thailand's "knight in shining armor" to defend it to the death in everything is just completely bizarre...

Not saying he's "wrong", not at all, to each his own... the word for it is "bizarre".

Not telling him to change either, we can all do what we want... it just totally puzzles me.

Kinda reminds me of my friend Gabriel who loved his car soooo much (it was a tiny Korean car, Kia Pride, although that was all he could afford), to the point that he seemed to even be making himself believe that it could outrun a BMW and had better safety features than a Volvo.

No offense to him, we all have our preferences... Again, I just find it so puzzling and "bizarre"...

I think its good to have two people opposed on the forum one for one against give s a much more balanced view over all. Just dont get too nit picky

[BigSnake]

No, Thank for the Warning!! Only use my card at Lotus.

[chinthee]

It's surprising that I read posts of people who have been told by their credit card issuers abroad to notify them if traveling in Thailand because of the potential for fraud. I've never experienced that. I have both overseas cards and Thailand issued cards.

Funny, but the Thai-issued cards have no problems in Thailand or around Asia generally, BUT the issuers are concerned in India. I was checking into a hotel in Mumbai and Thai A/X wanted to speak to me on phone at check-in to ensure it was really me. They told me they have problems there and to please advise them in advance of going, as especially the hotels are among the most expensive in Asia and bills can be large.

This thread would be greatly helped by someone who is ACTUALLY in the industry and works for a large issuer or processor or something to see what's really happening here in Thailand.

[calibanjr.]

I've always put a strong sticker to cover up my CCV number - and memorise it.

this simple advise seems to be too good to be true..... dont they need this 3-digit-code when u purchase something in a shop ? never had any problems with that ? or did they ask u for the code and u told them the numbers ? if so, they could write it down somewhere as well....

I used credit cards without any problems for almost 15 years..... until I came to Thailand (I have been to many other places in Asia for longer stays before).

here in Thailand my CC-details were stolen 2 times within 8 months, one time in Bumrungrad hospital (!!!), where i was stuck at the ICU and had to hand them over my card as I was not able to go to the accounting office myself, and the other time it most probably happened at that specific "well-known and reputable" cyber-cafe in Pattaya, were those KEYLOGGERS were found recently.... ("pattaya today" reported about that case few months ago)

The security code isn't needed with the card present. On most cards, it's included in magstrip and recorded when swiped (depending on the terminal type). It is printed on the card for use when the customer/card swiped (telephone/internet) to prove that the customer has the actual card in posession (or has written it down! ). It prevents remote use of somebody's credit card number alone (without the physical card).

Keylogging, well that's a no-brainer. You really have to watch out where you enter secure info, even on unsecured wireless from your laptop. Man, it's a jungle out there.

[THAILIBAN]

I've always put a strong sticker to cover up my CCV number - and memorise it.

this simple advise seems to be too good to be true..... dont they need this 3-digit-code when u purchase something in a shop ? never had any problems with that ? or did they ask u for the code and u told them the numbers ? if so, they could write it down somewhere as well....

I used credit cards without any problems for almost 15 years..... until I came to Thailand (I have been to many other places in Asia for longer stays before).

here in Thailand my CC-details were stolen 2 times within 8 months, one time in Bumrungrad hospital (!!!), where i was stuck at the ICU and had to hand them over my card as I was not able to go to the accounting office myself, and the other time it most probably happened at that specific "well-known and reputable" cyber-cafe in Pattaya, were those KEYLOGGERS were found recently.... ("pattaya today" reported about that case few months ago)

The security code isn't needed with the card present. On most cards, it's included in magstrip and recorded when swiped (depending on the terminal type). It is printed on the card for use when the customer/card swiped (telephone/internet) to prove that the customer has the actual card in posession (or has written it down! ). It prevents remote use of somebody's credit card number alone (without the physical card).

Keylogging, well that's a no-brainer. You really have to watch out where you enter secure info, even on unsecured wireless from your laptop. Man, it's a jungle out there.

thanks for that useful reply. If its like that, I will indeed cover my 3-digit-code with a small sticker in the future.

but ermmmmmm..... a stupid question: why is that 3-digit-code then actually printed on the card ? couldnt the credit card companies provide u with that code via a letter, same as u get when u receive ur PIN for cash advances ?

as for that key-logger: in urgent cases u sometimes dont have a chance, for example booking a flight or make an immidiate hotel reservation.

this specific internet-cafe disabled the TASK MANAGER (which I thought is due to missuse by customers, but now I know better), so u couldnt even check the processes that were running....

when using an internet cafe nowadays, I always check the task manager first, and if I find EXE-processes that are not familiar to me, I will GOOGLE first before starting my actual surfing....

Edited June 17, 2007 by THAILIBAN

[astral]

this simple advise seems to be too good to be true..... dont they need this 3-digit-code when u purchase something in a shop ? never had any problems with that ? or did they ask u for the code and u told them the numbers ? if so, they could write it down somewhere as well....

You should not need the CCV code when the card is presented and inserted in the machine.

IME the CCV is only needed for Internet transactions where the vendor does not see the card.

If shops are asking then I suggest you shop elsewhere.

[thaihome]

Shrubbery, I see you've only got 111 posts to your name. When you've been here longer, you'll realise that sensible, practical and responsible advice isn't appreciated.

Instead, you get more friends if you blubber away about how shitty everything is and how every single Thai person, Thai business and Thai institution exists solely to screw over the poor white farang.

Don't worry about getting it wrong here. You'll soon learn our ways . . .

So after a year of posting in thaivisa, you know everything about Thailand. And now you're native. Or enough so that you would steadfastly criticize anyone who would dare speak ill of it. At the same time, you've decided that your own advice is "sensible, practical and responsible." The perfect contrast, no?

You should be proud. I'm sure any number of farangs will read your post and realize how any cashier who writes down their credit information is doing it for good reason. And the security code? Yes, they'll need that too. Just for the record. 'Cuz nothing untoward happens here. This is the land of angelic Thais and bitter, acrimonious foreigners.

expatwannabe,

So you don’t think your post falls into the category of being written by a “bitter, acrimonious foreigner”?

Credit card fraud happens all over the world, particularly in Asia. I have lived in Asia for 10 years, I try to be sensible when I use a credit card and avoid exposure to potential fraud. So far it has worked, but I know that can change tomorrow, and living in Thailand has nothing to do with it.

TH

[Shrubbery]

IMHO, if someone is going to use a CC in a cyber cafe, they are asking to be scammed.

If you can be scammed using the details from a home PC, there is a very good chance that you could be scammed from a public PC.

I notify my CC issuer of my travel arrangements for 2 reasons.

No 1. To cover my ars#, in the unlikely event that I do get scammed.

No 2. On one occassion, while using my CC in Europe, my CC called me to confirm a transaction that I had just made.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Hi,

Does anybody know if when you get a credit card from a Thai Bank the bank will refund you if your credit card is stolen and used by somebody else? Is there any insurance as in Europe?

Thanks.

[kayata]

According to Visa & Mastercard International, and Amex, it is a breach of the merchant contract, for anybody to make hard copies of all the card data, especially the last 3 digits.

Anyone storing this information can be prosecuted to the fullest extent by the above companies and loose their entire merchant processing facilities.

Also it is also a breach of the Merchant Agreement to pass their processing fees to the customers. They can add it to the profit margin, but not charge 4% for slapping out your debit or credit card.

The way Visa and Mastercard describe surcharging, is that if anybody pays with cash, they should get a discount, and anyone who pays with their card should pay the displayed price. But anyone found to be surcharging can loose their merchant account.

Also be more alert with your payment cards, check your balances on a daily basis, or if super paranoid every hour (like me)!

Also be careful, there are skimmers trying loads of cards for small amounts using megabus.com merchant account for small amounts between 1GBP to 6GBP, then your account gets emptied a few days later. If you notice a charge from WP-STAGECOACH SERV, its advisable to cancel your card immediately.

According to the fraud research centre in the USA, and APACs in the UK. Thailand is currently the number one place where foreign criminals are using the cards to commit the crime.

Edited June 17, 2007 by kayata

[Zpete]

According to Visa & Mastercard International, and Amex, it is a breach of the merchant contract, for anybody to make hard copies of all the card data, especially the last 3 digits.

Anyone storing this information can be prosecuted to the fullest extent by the above companies and loose their entire merchant processing facilities.

Also it is also a breach of the Merchant Agreement to pass their processing fees to the customers. They can add it to the profit margin, but not charge 4% for slapping out your debit or credit card.

The way Visa and Mastercard describe surcharging, is that if anybody pays with cash, they should get a discount, and anyone who pays with their card should pay the displayed price. But anyone found to be surcharging can loose their merchant account.

Also be more alert with your payment cards, check your balances on a daily basis, or if super paranoid every hour (like me)!

Also be careful, there are skimmers trying loads of cards for small amounts using megabus.com merchant account for small amounts between 1GBP to 6GBP, then your account gets emptied a few days later. If you notice a charge from WP-STAGECOACH SERV, its advisable to cancel your card immediately.

According to the fraud research centre in the USA, and APACs in the UK. Thailand is currently the number one place where foreign criminals are using the cards to commit the crime.

Kayata, good info.

I use BNZ Visa Global Gold card.

Thailand has a tax, 3% on all credit card transactions. Guess there is nothing c/card issuers can do about that one.

On my return from Thailand , S/pore, Malasia and cambodia, last Dec, my bank put a hold on my c/card. Seems they thought it may have been compromised during my travels.

A new one was issued, having since, been back again to same countries, the bank has not issued any notice of concern this time.

Basically, I use the card for internet, airline bookings, as I travel around a lot.

I rarely, if ever use a credit card in these countries, Honkers included. I NEVER give the card to an assistant, always, "IN MY HANDS ONLY".

No one has ever taken offence to this, if they did, I would immediately refuse to do my business. I never thought of what I read in an earlier post, put some good sticky tape over the 3 digit security number, after memorising it.

BNZ has another security safety device, you sign up for it and have to put in another password for the transaction to finalise, "Verisign", it is a good idea. I guess other banks have it too.

I rarely enter my bank, all my banking, payments etc, are internet based.

Every day, usually first thing in the morning, I check my credit card transactions, whether I have used the card or not, one never knows.

Good luck Peple, and thanks all for the good oil.

Cheers

Kiwi Pete

[cobalto]

I use my (Thai issued) credit cards all over the place - both in Thailand and other parts of Asia. Never had a problem. The only occasion i ever had a problem was when I lost my wallet which contained the cards. The person found it had used it for a small transaction. I simply told the card company it wasnt my purchase and they reversed it immediately.

There are a lot of scare stories. I wonder how many of them are true?

Well, my 2 VISA (yes, two!) cards have been cloned at Pantip. I know where it has been cloned because I usually only use one of them, but in this specific store I used both (on the same day). After 3 days I saw in one of them (that I check often on the Internet) some transactions in UK outlets (GAP, etc) together with my transactions in Bangkok.

I called the CC company and they removed the UK bills from my statements, no questions. Specially because at the same days I had charges in Bangkok, as far as I know you can't be in 2 places at the same time (my argument to them)...

When the statement of the 2nd credit card arrived (the company one), I noticed transaction in UK, same dates, same stores... I connected the fact that I only used both CC in this same store at Pantip. The company also removed the charges from UK and apparently did nothing with my tip of where the card has been cloned.

[bendix]

No disrespect, but I think people need to be a bit sensible where they use cards, especially if they have a concern. Complaining about having a card cloned at Pantip - who's very existence is synonymous with fraudulent copies of just about everything - is a bit like putting your hand into a fire and complaining that things are getting hot around here.

[TopDogger]

Bangkok Airways does this also when you make payment @ one of their airport booths..

[cobalto]

No disrespect, but I think people need to be a bit sensible where they use cards, especially if they have a concern. Complaining about having a card cloned at Pantip - who's very existence is synonymous with fraudulent copies of just about everything - is a bit like putting your hand into a fire and complaining that things are getting hot around here.

I agree, it was the first (and only) time my cards were cloned. Leasson learnt. Now, whenever I go to Pantip I use cash only.

I was just surprised that the bank wasn't giving a sh%t to identify and punish the cloner.

Anyway, keeping track of your CC on a daily/weekly basis is the best way to avoid huge problems. And also don't use your CC if the shop doesn't seem professional enough.

[nikster]

I can see the problem. Any unscrupulous staff member with internet access can use the details to purchase whatever they want. It sounds like they have a large number of cards to choose from.

erm, no. they don't have the billing address. but there are fraud rings out there who just copy the cards so ppl can go do stores and buy stuff with them. happened to me in mexico.

never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

[stevenl]

Just checked the merchant copies of some of the payments my guests made. It does give this information: cc number and expiration date. It does not give the guestname though. So in order for anybody to use this information, they would have to remember the name exactly plus the code.

It also violates Visa/MC agreements if a vendor charges you for using your card - like 20 Baht, for instance. Credit card rules say that the vendor must charge the same price for credit as for cash, or they can lose the privilege of accepting credit payments. But does this stop them?

No of course not. a credit card transactions costs a merchant 3%, plus VAT over that 3%. That gives vendors the choice of either putting on a surcharge for cc payments or a discount for cash payments. Since by far most of the payments are cash, I find it a lot easier to add a cc payment surcharge.

[TAWP]

No disrespect, but I think people need to be a bit sensible where they use cards, especially if they have a concern. Complaining about having a card cloned at Pantip - who's very existence is synonymous with fraudulent copies of just about everything - is a bit like putting your hand into a fire and complaining that things are getting hot around here.

Sometimes Bendix posts feels like they are posted by two different persons. =)

In one post he slaggs off everybody that claims that paying with cards can be insecure and that caution should be used. In another post he slaggs off people that have been scammed and proclaim that caution should be used.

[Phil Conners]

Just ignore him. I do