Don't mention the war?

[Fat is a type of crazy]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please stop making things up that I didn't say. I said I was trying to bring balance to the debate, not about Putin being good or bad.

Crimes happen in every war- it goes with putting thousands of angry guys into a situation where they fear for their lives all the time. Vietnam war had plenty of war crimes by both sides, and the Iraq war also ( but perhaps not as many on Allied side due to presence of media ), so not just something happens in Ukraine.

 

Far as I'm concerned Putin is just another dictator in a long line of dictators in many countries. So far he hasn't equaled the death toll of some like Stalin or Mao.

Given I haven't "justified" Putin's actions in Ukraine, I don't have to give any reasons, but it behooves us to look at both sides of any conflict if we want to understand what is going on.

I don't think it is a pertinent point for Putin to say - sorry,  my soldiers and generals got a bit angry because the Ukrainians fought back so they did war crimes, it happens,  or gee, that other country did bad things once, and Stalin killed more innocent people, so on a scale of 1 to 10 of despotic maniacs I'm not so bad. 

[placeholder]

55 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They are all Countries in the former USSR and have affiliations with Moscow .

It only needs to our concern if Moscow decides to war with Countries who were not part on the USSR . 

   Until then, its nothing to do with NATO Countries 

Obviously this is nonsense. Ya think Finland, after almost 80 years of remaining outside of NATO,  is contemplating joining it now because Russia's actions are not threatening to countries outside of the former USSR?

By the way,  the Baltics were part of the USSR and are now members of NATO. So, is it of no concern to NATO if Russian invades member nations of NATO?

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Obviously this is nonsense. Ya think Finland, after almost 80 years of remaining outside of NATO,  is contemplating joining it now because Russia's actions are not threatening to countries outside of the former USSR?

 

Finland has similar experience to Ukraine, in the Winter War of 1940 it was forced to cede Finnish Karelia to the USSR, much like what Russia is trying to do in the Donbas now. That was after a previous Russian land grab of east Karelia in 1721.

One would think Siberia would be enough land area for anyone, but no.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Absolutely. The American First movement in the U.S. Not the Trump one. The Lindbergh one. Not an accident that is was copied. White nationalist Lindbergh viewed the WW2 European conflict as a fraternal squabble of no concern to the rest of the world.

Many people of German descent live in the US. To my knowledge it was Hitler declaring war on the US that brought it into the European war. Tell me if that's wrong.

IMO if not for that, the US may not have done so and confined itself to the Pacific war against Japan.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I don't think it is a pertinent point for Putin to say - sorry,  my soldiers and generals got a bit angry because the Ukrainians fought back so they did war crimes, it happens,  or gee, that other country did bad things once, and Stalin killed more innocent people, so on a scale of 1 to 10 of despotic maniacs I'm not so bad. 

Say whatever you like but don't invent things I didn't say and attribute them to me.

[Lacessit]

I am not sure if this is on topic......... however, the coincidence is eerie.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Say whatever you like but don't invent things I didn't say and attribute them to me.

Here's what you did say:

Crimes happen in every war- it goes with putting thousands of angry guys into a situation where they fear for their lives all the time. Vietnam war had plenty of war crimes by both sides, and the Iraq war also ( but perhaps not as many on Allied side due to presence of media ), so not just something happens in Ukraine.

 

Far as I'm concerned Putin is just another dictator in a long line of dictators in many countries. So far he hasn't equaled the death toll of some like Stalin or Mao.Given I haven't "justified" Putin's actions in Ukraine, I don't have to give any reasons, but it behooves us to look at both sides of any conflict if we want to understand what is going on.

You really believe that it's commonplace in war for soldiers to execute thousands of civilians at point blank range?

And you certainly did say that Putin so far hasn't killed as many as did Stalin. This is significant why?  And keep in mind that Putin is still alive and may still catch up.

As for "it behooves us to look at both sides of any conflict if we want to understand what's going on." And the best way to demonstrate one's understanding is not "to give any reasons"? It is to laugh. You've got nothing.

 

[JetsetBkk]

17 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am not sure if this is on topic......... however, the coincidence is eerie.

I wonder how many hours people spent trying to find this "coincidence"?

 

Ridiculous.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, JetsetBkk said:

I wonder how many hours people spent trying to find this "coincidence"?

 

Ridiculous.

No more ridiculous than you using your favorite numbers buying a lottery ticket, or people trying to prove climate change does not exist.

[billd766]

On 4/17/2022 at 2:23 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

All Countries that have Nuclear weapons would use them if they felt that it was necessary and no Country would say "No, we would never use our Nuclear Weapons under any circumstances".

   That is how fear mongering works , get a Journalist to ask Putin if he would use Nukes and when he states he would (hes hardly going to say anything different ) , head line is "Putin threatens to use Nuclear Bombs .

   I will get concerned if Russia goes on to invade Countries outside of Ukraine . 

Its currently just a squabble between Russia and Ukraine and theres no need for anyone else to get involved 

   

quote from your post.

 

"Its currently just a squabble between Russia and Ukraine and theres no need for anyone else to get involved".

 

IMHO it is NOT just a squabble between a much larger country with nuclear weapons and a smaller democratic country being illegally invaded by the larger more heavily armed country.

 

If Putin and Russia win the war, because that is what it is, what is to stop Putin and Russia invading another country, despite "promises" Putin makes.

 

That is what happened in the 1930s, and look where appeasement got us then.

Edited April 18, 2022 by billd766
Bad spelling

[Lacessit]

On 4/17/2022 at 5:01 AM, KhaoYai said:

 

 

For some strange reason their has been very little 'military coverage' in this war - very few satellite images or drone videos. For example, I am absolutely certain that the Americans will know exactly what happened to Russian ship, Moskva - they have intelligence satellites over the region most if not all the time yet nothing's been shown.  I thought that was just a BBC policy for a while but the other channels are just the same.  It may well be considered secret but its been available in other recent conflicts.

 

 

IMO the Americans are probably feeding very accurate information on Russian military movements to the Ukrainians, with agreement by both to keep quiet about what they know. In their shoes, I would do the same. Keep your opponent in the dark about what you know, and what you intend. That's probably why Putin has purged a large chunk of the FSB, they were either in the dark about Ukraine's capabilities,or lied to Putin because it was what he wanted to hear.

Other recent conflicts were different, the point there was to maximize publicity. Although in the Gulf War, the publicity was carefully managed by the military.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the Americans are probably feeding very accurate information on Russian military movements to the Ukrainians, with agreement by both to keep quiet about what they know. In their shoes, I would do the same. Keep your opponent in the dark about what you know, and what you intend. That's probably why Putin has purged a large chunk of the FSB, they were either in the dark about Ukraine's capabilities,or lied to Putin because it was what he wanted to hear.

Other recent conflicts were different, the point there was to maximize publicity. Although in the Gulf War, the publicity was carefully managed by the military.

The US and UK prepared the world for the invasion by releasing intelligence reports of Putin's intentions days and weeks before the invasion.

 

At this time Russian military movements are probably being followed by a combination of civilian satellites that can take remarkably accurate images of the surface of the earth and reports from Ukrainian citizens who tend to notice when armor and troops pass by.  The US is probably sharing intelligence with Ukraine, but not necessarily of the locations of the Russian military.  That can be covered by other sources.

[JetsetBkk]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

No more ridiculous than you using your favorite numbers buying a lottery ticket, or people trying to prove climate change does not exist.

I don't buy lottery tickets and, you are correct, climate change is cyclical. Perhaps you weren't around in the 70's when "Global Cooling" was the scare mongering prediction of the day.

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

I don't buy lottery tickets and, you are correct, climate change is cyclical. Perhaps you weren't around in the 70's when "Global Cooling" was the scare mongering prediction of the day.

It's obvious from your post you did not attend thermodynamics class. Climate change is a result of anthropomorphic emissions of carbon dioxide.

I was in my thirties in the 70's, what about you?

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

I don't buy lottery tickets and, you are correct, climate change is cyclical. Perhaps you weren't around in the 70's when "Global Cooling" was the scare mongering prediction of the day.

Right, it's not like climate science has advanced at all in the last 50 years.  How could it?  Computing power and satellite technology used for observations are the same now they were in the 70's, aren't they?

 

"In the mid 1970s, the limited temperature series available suggested that the temperature had decreased for several decades up to then. As longer time series of higher quality became available, it became clear that global temperature showed significant increases overall."   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

Edited April 18, 2022 by heybruce