Deputy leader of Thailand’s Democrat party quits amid sexual harassment allegations

[internationalism]

thai media now says some 7 women accused him of rape.

Also more coming with sexual harassment, together over 20.

Mind that it's a holiday season and Sunday. There might be more coming after holidays, within the next week.

 

"The number of women sounding the alarm on Thailand’s former Democrat Party deputy leader Prinn Panitchpakdi keeps piling up as yet another alleged victim of sexual assault has filed a case against him. This brings the total number of women alleging that Prinn sexually assaulted or harassed them to over 20 now."

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/politics/another-alleged-victim-files-case-against-thai-former-democrat-party-member 

 

accusations of bribing his victims (in thai)

https://www.brighttv.co.th/news/social/prinn-money-drama

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I don't really get it looks like a lot of guys want to go back to the times before me2 and stuff like that when women kept quit and accepted it.

I wonder how many of those MeToo women who told their (version of the) story 10 or 20 years later ever though about how much pain they could have helped to prevent if they would have accused the bad guys earlier.

Now we hear i.e. many people who say they knew that something bad was going on with Weinstein since a long long time. And what did they do? Did they warn people? Did they at least try to make sure he can never do it again? No! Most of them just watched and did nothing to prevent further harm. So much about MeToo.

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

He is prominent and that brings a couple of "complications".

Let me say first that what I write here is independent of political party, gender, etc.

I am sure there are enough people who would like to see the accused in jail - or at least away from politics. And obviously some people will love it when this drags down his political party.

That part might already be motivation enough for some people to accuse him.

And then there is possible compensation. Why not join the money train and get a million for not going (too much) public?

MeToo showed us that if one person comes out with accusations then often others come out as well. How many of those prominent people who were accused were also prosecuted and convicted?

And when I write prosecuted and convicted I have a real court in mind and not facebook and twitter and all that.

 

Lots of men had their lives totally ruined by accusations. And once that life is ruined it is impossible to bring it back. 

 

Personally I think it's fair if the press publishes accusations. And if there is any evidence then please publish that as well. But if it is something like "he did this years ago and nobody saw it and I didn't mention it until now" then I think we should be careful to jump to conclusions.

 

If he is guilty and if there is evidence and if the public makes sure the investigation continues then there will be a conclusion at some stage. Why not wait a little longer before ruining someone's life?

 

And about why some men, including me, don't trust accusations from women: Over the years I knew a couple of guys who's life was made miserable by women. Just accusations about what they allegedly did to the women and/or children was enough for that. And when later the truth came out that the women were lying what happened? Not much. The guys lives were still ruined and there was little to no consequences for the women. Sad - and unfortunately it happens too often.

 

Obviously some accusations are true and they guys should go to jail. Let a judge decide! 

I think men getting shafted by woman is far less then men getting away with molestation and sexual misconduct. So sure there might be some guys that suffer, but i bet there are far more woman that suffer then men ever. So i take the side of woman in general. Because that is where the most victims are. So your a bit bias.

 

You talk about convictions, your a smart poster you know and I know that many guys get away with it because of lack of evidence. So your remark about conviction is a bit low given that these cases by their nature are hard to prove.

 

I am not ruining anyone's life with commenting on a forum about it. Whatever i say has no impact on him at all. We just speculate about this the same way w do about other cases.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I wonder how many of those MeToo women who told their (version of the) story 10 or 20 years later ever though about how much pain they could have helped to prevent if they would have accused the bad guys earlier.

Now we hear i.e. many people who say they knew that something bad was going on with Weinstein since a long long time. And what did they do? Did they warn people? Did they at least try to make sure he can never do it again? No! Most of them just watched and did nothing to prevent further harm. So much about MeToo.

I think your really prejudiced against woman. The reason they did not come out as at the time they would never have gotten justice they would only get themselves in trouble. Now times are changing and police has to act woman are more believed and men (normal ones) see its wrong. That was not the same back then.

 

In my country recently a big scandal of artists abusing upcoming talents. Before these things were accepted now they are not. So why.. because times are different now. They feel supported before they would suffer more from it.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I think men getting shafted by woman is far less then men getting away with molestation and sexual misconduct. So sure there might be some guys that suffer, but i bet there are far more woman that suffer then men ever. So i take the side of woman in general. Because that is where the most victims are. So your a bit bias.

 

You talk about convictions, your a smart poster you know and I know that many guys get away with it because of lack of evidence. So your remark about conviction is a bit low given that these cases by their nature are hard to prove.

 

I am not ruining anyone's life with commenting on a forum about it. Whatever i say has no impact on him at all. We just speculate about this the same way w do about other cases.

If there would be i.e. 10 guys who get away with rape and 3 would be innocent but their life would be ruined by accusations, do you think it would be fair enough that the innocent guys suffer?

 

And about guys getting away with it because lack of evidence: In which cases does that happen? Does it happen if i.e. a woman visits a guy in his hotel room and later she says he raped her and he says she agreed to sex?

In cases where a guy dragged a woman into a street and raped here there there is normally a lot of evidence.

Personally I think too many people make (very) bad decisions and then they find out too late that there are consequences. I.e. if a woman arranges to see a guy for sex who she just "met" online is that a good idea? Obviously no guy should rape anybody in any situation. But IMHO we should agree that some women should have though a minute or two before they met some guys in private.

 

And about you not ruining anybody's life with your comments in a forum. I agree that your comment alone makes almost no difference, same as my comments. But take a million comments of people who write something like "he is guilty, lynch him" or comments like "lets be fair and look at the evidence" then that makes a difference. 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think your really prejudiced against woman. The reason they did not come out as at the time they would never have gotten justice they would only get themselves in trouble.

I think that is only partly true.

If 30 years ago an aspiring actress would have accused a manager that he kissed her against her will or maybe gave her a slap on her backside then I agree, most people, including me, would have seen that as part of the business.

But if a woman was actually raped by a prominent person and she screamed and fought him, then I am pretty sure not many people would have accepted that. Most people agree that bad guys should go to jail.

 

Personally I find the worst cases are when I read accusations from women about what a guy did and all that happened in a hotel room. Many of those women could have just opened the door and walk out. But they didn't. Why didn't they walk out? And many of those women then later visited the same guy again and they had a good idea of what might happen. But they still did it. And 20 years later they call it rape. Strange. 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If there would be i.e. 10 guys who get away with rape and 3 would be innocent but their life would be ruined by accusations, do you think it would be fair enough that the innocent guys suffer?

 

And about guys getting away with it because lack of evidence: In which cases does that happen? Does it happen if i.e. a woman visits a guy in his hotel room and later she says he raped her and he says she agreed to sex?

In cases where a guy dragged a woman into a street and raped here there there is normally a lot of evidence.

Personally I think too many people make (very) bad decisions and then they find out too late that there are consequences. I.e. if a woman arranges to see a guy for sex who she just "met" online is that a good idea? Obviously no guy should rape anybody in any situation. But IMHO we should agree that some women should have though a minute or two before they met some guys in private.

 

And about you not ruining anybody's life with your comments in a forum. I agree that your comment alone makes almost no difference, same as my comments. But take a million comments of people who write something like "he is guilty, lynch him" or comments like "lets be fair and look at the evidence" then that makes a difference. 

 

 

 

Of course its not fair but if you look at numbers its logical to go for the 10 men (means 10 woman suffer less) and 3 guys suffer too bad but it happens. Not perfect but that is life. Numbers wise it makes sense to protect the woman and be on the side of woman because there are far more victims on their side then on the side of males.

 

Im not saying its good or perfect but from a numerical point of view it makes far more sense. Basically your saying we should never go after criminals because we can catch some innocents. As far as i know with all other crimes we accept some innocent people getting shafted (we dont like it) So why would this be different.

 

If a woman visits a mans room and gets raped then its hard to get proof. Same if a woman is drunk. But that does not mean it has not happened. There are quite a few stories of woman who were in that situation and later got a taped secret confession (read about cheerleader got raped by their jocks and got a secret confession. Without it she would never have been able to prove it.) 

 

Your victimblaming... blaming a woman that she got raped because she got into a hotel room with a guy. So you think that woman concent to sex once they enter your house or bedroom ? .. Concent is concent.

 

I think a lot of guys like you are to rigid and old fashioned.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think that is only partly true.

If 30 years ago an aspiring actress would have accused a manager that he kissed her against her will or maybe gave her a slap on her backside then I agree, most people, including me, would have seen that as part of the business.

But if a woman was actually raped by a prominent person and she screamed and fought him, then I am pretty sure not many people would have accepted that. Most people agree that bad guys should go to jail.

 

Personally I find the worst cases are when I read accusations from women about what a guy did and all that happened in a hotel room. Many of those women could have just opened the door and walk out. But they didn't. Why didn't they walk out? And many of those women then later visited the same guy again and they had a good idea of what might happen. But they still did it. And 20 years later they call it rape. Strange. 

Your a prime example of a victim blamer. Your thinking about it too much from a males point of view. I guess you never talked to woman who had bad things happen. Maybe then you would not judge to much.

 

As for a pat on the ass it unacceptable. You might think its acceptable but its not. You have really rigid view of rape. What are you so affraid for are you one of those guys that pushes through a no of a woman ? and then later think oh she did not struggle too much so it was ok ?

 

Maybe you should educate yourself a bit more.

[robblok]

@OneMoreFarang

 

I think that guys like you are the reason that many woman kept quite before as your doing so much shaming and victim blaming they would be afraid to come forward. Because in the past your attitude was a normal one. But now we have evolved left those stupid ideas behind and so Me2 happened as woman are less afraid. 

 

There are so many reasons for not resisting, look and read some psychology books about it. Real experts know it better then you do with your old fashioned opinions.

 

Why many rape victims don’t fight or yell

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/06/23/why-many-rape-victims-dont-fight-or-yell/

[OneMoreFarang]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your victimblaming... blaming a woman that she got raped because she got into a hotel room with a guy. So you think that woman concent to sex once they enter your house or bedroom ? .. Concent is concent.

I think victim blaming is overrated.

If I walk along with a gold chain and an expensive camera around my neck in Rio and I get robbed (and maybe killed) then almost everybody would agree that I was just stupid. I asked for it.

But if a woman doesn't know a guy or she knows him only a little and then she visits him in a private room then some people just think she is a victim. Why didn't she think about possible bad consequences?

I think now it seems to be fashion that some people think they should be able to do anything and pretend the world is perfect. Really? The world isn't perfect and bad things happen. Be prepared, and don't do stupid things! 

[OneMoreFarang]

@robblok

There was a time when women slapped a guy when he misbehaved. That seems to be out of fashion now.

 

I never raped a woman and I have no interest in doing that. And, as mentioned above, I think that any man who raped a woman should go to jail.

And I also think that any woman who accused a guy of rape which never happened should go to jail.

 

Lots of feminists pretend they want equality. But what many of them want is that everybody should believe everything women say and everybody should think men are guilty if any women accuses them.

I am not one of those guys who thinks women always tell the truth. Many lie. 

 

[robblok]

39 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think victim blaming is overrated.

If I walk along with a gold chain and an expensive camera around my neck in Rio and I get robbed (and maybe killed) then almost everybody would agree that I was just stupid. I asked for it.

But if a woman doesn't know a guy or she knows him only a little and then she visits him in a private room then some people just think she is a victim. Why didn't she think about possible bad consequences?

I think now it seems to be fashion that some people think they should be able to do anything and pretend the world is perfect. Really? The world isn't perfect and bad things happen. Be prepared, and don't do stupid things! 

To be honest i feel your opinions are repulsive. When I invite a woman to a private room that does not mean sex. Even if it means sex she still has to concent. You seem to think otherwise. To compare waling in Rio with a gold chain and a woman visiting a mans room risk wise says enough about you. In general i think your posts are quite nice but on this topic we are the total opposites.

 

I bet you did not read the article i posted with your old fashioned idea's. Its explained why woman that get raped dont resist. Anyway its all about power and shame and because your opinion was more prevalent before woman did not want to come out (because of guys like you) now that your kind is dying out woman are less afraid to report these things (hence me2).

Actually your the example of why it was not reported before because of how you react and think. Now that has changed.

 

I am not saying you raped anyone but your opinions seem to suggest you consider those things normal. Because how normal is it to force a woman to have sex if she only goes in your room. Because you seem to suggest its a high risk thing. That is a certain mindset. Anyway I agree about your 2nd paragraph. 

 

Woman lie men lie, but facts remain more woman get victimized by men then the other way around. Do you content that point ?

[smutcakes]

Did not know Harvey Weinstein was a member of Thai Visa Forum

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

To be honest i feel your opinions are repulsive. When I invite a woman to a private room that does not mean sex. Even if it means sex she still has to concent. You seem to think otherwise. To compare waling in Rio with a gold chain and a woman visiting a mans room risk wise says enough about you. In general i think your posts are quite nice but on this topic we are the total opposites.

 

I bet you did not read the article i posted with your old fashioned idea's. Its explained why woman that get raped dont resist. Anyway its all about power and shame and because your opinion was more prevalent before woman did not want to come out (because of guys like you) now that your kind is dying out woman are less afraid to report these things (hence me2).

Actually your the example of why it was not reported before because of how you react and think. Now that has changed.

 

I am not saying you raped anyone but your opinions seem to suggest you consider those things normal. Because how normal is it to force a woman to have sex if she only goes in your room. Because you seem to suggest its a high risk thing. That is a certain mindset. Anyway I agree about your 2nd paragraph. 

 

Woman lie men lie, but facts remain more woman get victimized by men then the other way around. Do you content that point ?

Thanks for your answer and good that we agree on some things.

 

I never said it is acceptable that a woman gets raped when she visits a guy. Of course people should only have sex (anywhere, anytime) when both want that.

But I think everybody should think about possible risks whatever they do. If a woman is not sure about a guy but for whatever reason she still has to meet him then she should do it in a public place, i.e. in a hotel lobby. Or she can ask a friend or colleague to join her. And if she suggest that and the guy doesn't like that they meet in a public place or together with another person then the alarm bells should go on.

 

When I understand your writing correct then you think similar to: She should be able to go wherever she wants. And if a guy wants to have sex with her, i.e. in a private room, then she should tell him she doesn't want sex and all will be fine. Really? We are not living in a perfect world. Some people are bad. And some people think they can get away with certain behavior especially if they are alone. Do I think that is good or fair? No! But it doesn't matter if you or I think that is fair. It matters that sometimes bad things happen. And bad things happen more likely to people who are not careful. IMHO it is just common sense to look at possible risks and avoid those risks.

 

Maybe a direct question to you: A girl chats with a guy on a dating app. They agree to meet in a hotel. And then bad things happen. Where do you think the situation got wrong? In the moment when the guy didn't listen to her NO inside the room? Or was there any mistake (long) before that happened?

 

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Where do you think the situation got wrong? In the moment when the guy didn't listen to her NO

No is no and it does not matter where it is said.
 

If that no is ignored then it is rape no matter where it happens. 
 

Claiming anything else or saying the victim of the assault should not have been in a certain place or should not have been alone with the scum who assaulted them is victim blaming. 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No is no and it does not matter where it is said.
 

If that no is ignored then it is rape no matter where it happens. 
 

Claiming anything else or saying the victim of the assault should not have been in a certain place or should not have been alone with the scum who assaulted them is victim blaming. 

Yes, you are right, no is no and if the guy ignores her no then that is rape.

So when that happens the woman can rightfully say: he raped me.

 

But, wouldn't it have been a lot better for her if she would have thought before meeting that guy if that is a smart idea? Are you really thinking the woman in that example is not partly responsible for bringing herself in a risky situation?

If you would have a daughter and she would tell you: Now I will see this guy at his home who I just met online. Would you let her go and wish her a good time? Or would you tell her to think twice or maybe outright tell her: Don't do that!

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, you are right, no is no and if the guy ignores her no then that is rape.

So when that happens the woman can rightfully say: he raped me.

 

But, wouldn't it have been a lot better for her if she would have thought before meeting that guy if that is a smart idea? Are you really thinking the woman in that example is not partly responsible for bringing herself in a risky situation?

If you would have a daughter and she would tell you: Now I will see this guy at his home who I just met online. Would you let her go and wish her a good time? Or would you tell her to think twice or maybe outright tell her: Don't do that!

Rape will only stop when rapists stop raping. To say anyone but the rapists are responsible in any way at all is victim blaming. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Rape will only stop when rapists stop raping. To say anyone but the rapists are responsible in any way at all is victim blaming. 

Would you mind answering my question:

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If you would have a daughter and she would tell you: Now I will see this guy at his home who I just met online. Would you let her go and wish her a good time? Or would you tell her to think twice or maybe outright tell her: Don't do that!

 

[Bluespunk]

21 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Would you mind answering my question:

 

I have.
 

The only ones who need to stop doing what they are doing to end rape are rapists.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I have.
 

The only ones who need to stop doing what they are doing to end rape are rapists.

Yes, in theory you are right.

And do you see the problem? You can try as hard as you want and we can all try as hard as we want but there will always be bad guys.

And even if all bad guys would go to jail after doing something bad then still bad things would happen.

So coming back to that imagined daughter (or any other young female who needs guidance): I would tell them to be careful and to avoid risk. It's impossible to avoid all risk all the time. But at least it is possible to avoid some big risks. And going with a guy who they barely know into a private room is certainly a big risk.

And what would be the result of that? Would there be no rapes anymore? No. But who would be raped? The girls with pink tinted lenses who hope that the world is perfect? Or the girls who know there are bad guys and who avoid big risks?

All that doesn't make a rapist more or less guilty. A rapist is guilty. But if a girl can avoid a big risk then it is smart to avoid it. It's called common sense.

[Bluespunk]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, in theory you are right.

And do you see the problem? You can try as hard as you want and we can all try as hard as we want but there will always be bad guys.

And even if all bad guys would go to jail after doing something bad then still bad things would happen.

So coming back to that imagined daughter (or any other young female who needs guidance): I would tell them to be careful and to avoid risk. It's impossible to avoid all risk all the time. But at least it is possible to avoid some big risks. And going with a guy who they barely know into a private room is certainly a big risk.

And what would be the result of that? Would there be no rapes anymore? No. But who would be raped? The girls with pink tinted lenses who hope that the world is perfect? Or the girls who know there are bad guys and who avoid big risks?

All that doesn't make a rapist more or less guilty. A rapist is guilty. But if a girl can avoid a big risk then it is smart to avoid it. It's called common sense.

Saying anyone but the rapist is in any way, shape or form responsible is victim blaming. 

[OneMoreFarang]

27 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Saying anyone but the rapist is in any way, shape or form responsible is victim blaming. 

Call it whatever you like. I think it's a lot better if a girl is smart and uses common sense. It seems for you it's good enough that she says after the event: Don't blame me. I didn't do anything wrong.

[Bluespunk]

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Call it whatever you like. I think it's a lot better if a girl is smart and uses common sense. It seems for you it's good enough that she says after the event: Don't blame me. I didn't do anything wrong.

What would be good enough for me is if rapist scum stopped and people focused on this rather than victim blaming. 

[OneMoreFarang]

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

What would be good enough for me is if rapist scum stopped and people focused on this rather than victim blaming. 

Yeah, great idea. And while you working on that how about no drugs and no murders or just no crimes at all anymore? What a wonderful idea.

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yeah, great idea. And while you working on that how about no drugs and no murders or just no crimes at all anymore? What a wonderful idea.

I didn’t say I was working on anything.
 

And I don’t blame the victims of those crimes  for the crimes either. 

[mtls2005]

13 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Call it whatever you like. I think it's a lot better if a girl is smart and uses common sense.

At this rate you'll need to purchase shovels by the dozen.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

15 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I didn’t say I was working on anything.

So you see crimes happening and you don't do anything about it and you don't think people should use common sense and you think somehow the crimes will go away. Interesting. 

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

So you see crimes happening and you don't do anything about it and you don't think people should use common sense and you think somehow the crimes will go away. Interesting. 

Which crimes do you think I’ve seen? Be precise. 
 

I think we should blame the perpetrators of crimes, not the victims.