Won't accept help to get teeth fixed. Any suggestions?

[The Fugitive]

Husband of my wife’s friend is a plumber and electrician. He also fixes anything electrical and electronic, even TV’s and satellite receivers. Useful guy to know!

 

He’s in agony with his teeth, continuously taking painkillers. He won’t go to the local hospital dental dept or a private general dentist because he fears they’ll extract all his teeth. He can’t afford specialist treatment. We’ve told him to go to our specialist dentist and get himself fixed up and not to worry about the bill. He won’t accept our help. 

 

I’ve thought of things such as giving us a discount for the next few jobs but he still won’t go.

 

Anyone been in a similar situation and managed to resolve it?

[hotandsticky]

Tackle the fear issue, not the cost.

[The Fugitive]

7 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Tackle the fear issue, not the cost.

Good advice! He's almost certainly never been to a specialist dentist where the priority is preserving instead of extracting.

[Sheryl]

If you can find a Thai who has  been to this dentist, talking with them may help.

 

Although the issue he raised is having his teeth pulled it is quite likely he us fearful of pain but ashamed to admit it.

 

Have him talk to a Thai who has experienced dental work under effective local anesthesia.

[ChrisKC]

Why should he worry about all his teeth been extracted?

 

Yes, he has teeth and possibly gum problems or ulcer or abscess.

 

The first thing to do is go to a dentist and be properly assessed. That wont cost a lot at all! And at a dentist he will get encouragement to have done what is initially the priority in his case. They understand about people being "scared".

 

It will still be a choice he can make according to what will be recommended.

[The Fugitive]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

If you can find a Thai who has  been to this dentist, talking with them may help.

 

Although the issue he raised is having his teeth pulled it is quite likely he us fearful of pain but ashamed to admit it.

 

Have him talk to a Thai who has experienced dental work under effective local anesthesia.

Thanks for the advice Sheryl. Will try!

[The Fugitive]

4 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

Why should he worry about all his teeth been extracted?

 

Yes, he has teeth and possibly gum problems or ulcer or abscess.

 

The first thing to do is go to a dentist and be properly assessed. That wont cost a lot at all! And at a dentist he will get encouragement to have done what is initially the priority in his case. They understand about people being "scared".

 

It will still be a choice he can make according to what will be recommended.

His wife has lost all her front teeth (don't know how and when). She is most self-conscious about it. I agree, first things first, he needs to be assessed. Unfortunately, it's not been possible to motivate him to even do this yet.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

He won’t go to the local hospital dental dept or a private general dentist because he fears they’ll extract all his teeth.

A  bit irrational as they won't take any out without his say so. He should go to the local government hospital, I found them far better than the clinics.

If he is in pain every chance there is infection and they won't want to do anything until that has been treated, just give him some indication of the options.

Early last year I had to have 4 out, I am touching 75 and don't see the need for any specialist work. They wouldn't take all 4 out at once,  did 2 and 2 a week later. The first 2 included one at the back, I was all braced for the pain when the dentist said it was out and she was going to stitch the socket.

I was 400 baht each for 3 extractions and 800 baht for the one with the stitching, then about 2000 baht for a partial denture. I had to get the denture somewhere else as there was a protracted wait at the hospital, but not been any problems.

The greatest fear is the fear of the unknown.

[The Fugitive]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

A  bit irrational as they won't take any out without his say so. He should go to the local government hospital, I found them far better than the clinics.

If he is in pain every chance there is infection and they won't want to do anything until that has been treated, just give him some indication of the options.

Early last year I had to have 4 out, I am touching 75 and don't see the need for any specialist work. They wouldn't take all 4 out at once,  did 2 and 2 a week later. The first 2 included one at the back, I was all braced for the pain when the dentist said it was out and she was going to stitch the socket.

I was 400 baht each for 3 extractions and 800 baht for the one with the stitching, then about 2000 baht for a partial denture. I had to get the denture somewhere else as there was a protracted wait at the hospital, but not been any problems.

The greatest fear is the fear of the unknown.

Thanks for the advice. My Thai Mrs won't go to the dental dept at our Community Hospital saying that they're 'butchers'. I've never been but from what I've seen of the medical side it's excellent. You're correct, fear of the unknown is the issue with the guy. Sounds like you got good treatment and very economical too. I recently had two metal/fused porcelain crowns fitted at a cost of 8,000 baht each. The teeth were more fillings than tooth and the fillings had broken. But the roots were sound so crowns were possible without need of root canal treatment. 

[ChrisKC]

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

His wife has lost all her front teeth (don't know how and when). She is most self-conscious about it. I agree, first things first, he needs to be assessed. Unfortunately, it's not been possible to motivate him to even do this yet.

It's important for this man to be persuaded that the experts will know the exact nature of his problems.

 

Tell him that Dentists; won't drag him kicking and screaming, tying him to a chair and having their wicked way with him.

 

He will be told exactly a process of treatment that he is entitled to reject. In any case, I doubt their first plan would be extract everything there and then.  Maybe after (if he cannot accept), that some palliative treatment/medication to ease his pain.

 

It's a tricky business convincing those who don't even visit their Doctor - white coat syndrome.

 

Good luck with your efforts - but if he won't go, then he is left with the pain or matters getting even worse.

 

 

 

[sanuk711]

21 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

We’ve told him to go to our specialist dentist and get himself fixed up and not to worry about the bill. He won’t accept our help. 

 

So.. ..your trying to give a Thai person money---that they dont have to pay back---and they wont accept it.......

 

 

......I must be living in an alternate world.............

 

[The Fugitive]

28 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

It's important for this man to be persuaded that the experts will know the exact nature of his problems.

 

Tell him that Dentists; won't drag him kicking and screaming, tying him to a chair and having their wicked way with him.

 

He will be told exactly a process of treatment that he is entitled to reject. In any case, I doubt their first plan would be extract everything there and then.  Maybe after (if he cannot accept), that some palliative treatment/medication to ease his pain.

 

It's a tricky business convincing those who don't even visit their Doctor - white coat syndrome.

 

Good luck with your efforts - but if he won't go, then he is left with the pain or matters getting even worse.

 

 

 

Thanks again. We won't give up. We go to his house at least two times per week. Seeing him wince and finger his jaw with the pain makes me feel it too. Nobody should have to suffer toothache. 

[The Fugitive]

26 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

So.. ..your trying to give a Thai person money---that they dont have to pay back---and they wont accept it.......

 

 

......I must be living in an alternate world.............

 

I know what you mean. But in this case he isn't really profiting. He's suffering unnecessarily and we want to stop it. I couldn't stand it myself.

[OneMoreFarang]

6 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

The first thing to do is go to a dentist and be properly assessed. That wont cost a lot at all! And at a dentist he will get encouragement to have done what is initially the priority in his case. They understand about people being "scared".

I learned over the years how "normal" Thais are treated by many Thai dentists and it is often horrible.

 

I.e. I visited one of the government hospitals in Bangkok with a Thai woman who was working in a Thai company with what they call Thai medical insurance.

Coming there with toothache, after at least an hour waiting she was seen by a normal doctor, no dentist. He gave her some simple pain killers and told her to take them. If it still hurts she should come back in a week or two. He didn't even look in her mouth.

When I heard that I talked with them long enough to convince them to see a dentist (one floor up). Finally he saw her, decided the tooth was in bad shape and he pulled it out.

 

Another visit another day to a dental clinic with toothache. The dentist checked the hurting tooth and some other teeth. Then he put a filling in one of the other teeth and told her to come back another day to fix many other problems. The hurting tooth was not fixed.

 

It seems many Thai dentists, and the normal Thai insurance, offer only cheap fillings or extracting teeth. Anything more complicated like root canal treatment or crowns seem not to exist. The dentists don't even mention them.

 

Recently I had a couple of my teeth fixed in a Thai clinic. The doctors from that clinic also work in private hospitals. The clinic has a lot better prices than private hospitals. But it still not cheap.

Normal fillings are maybe 1000B, no problem. But I had root canal treatment and recently a crown and a bridge. It cost a lot of money. I think within the last year I paid maybe 100,000 THB.

Speaking with others this seems to be not unusual.

 

So coming back to this thread and the wife's friend: Think twice what you want to offer. If a dentist can fix a couple of teeth with fillings then that might be fine. And if the teeth are very bad probably the dentist can extract them and it won't hurt much. But anything in between is likely expensive in the region 10k and more, maybe a lot more.

[ChrisKC]

4 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Thanks again. We won't give up. We go to his house at least two times per week. Seeing him wince and finger his jaw with the pain makes me feel it too. Nobody should have to suffer toothache. 

My pleasure. Older people - of all nationalities - have perceptions that are often misguided and of course there are those who are stubborn, too. Some people just don't like being told what to do!

 

It depends on who he trusts and feels comfortable with when trying to persuade him to do or act on something they know they really should - may have to be gentle with him.

 

My approach would be something like,

 

"You are in pain, you need someone to help you. Your teeth are giving you lots of trouble and there is someone that CAN help you. Go and see the Dentist, I will go with you and sit beside you. The Dentist will look inside your mouth and he may recommend an Xray - none of this will hurt. He will study the Xray and give you some information about what he thinks is best for you.

 

It is unlikely he will give any treatment at that time, maybe even suggest an appointment in a months time and you will know already what he will do when you get there. This will also give you waiting time to think about your decision to go ahead.

 

In the meantime. ask the Dentist about anything more you can do to reduce the pain!.

 

Do this for me, but more important, for yourself. Later you will say, "I glad I did that!""

 

[The Fugitive]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I learned over the years how "normal" Thais are treated by many Thai dentists and it is often horrible.

 

I.e. I visited one of the government hospitals in Bangkok with a Thai woman who was working in a Thai company with what they call Thai medical insurance.

Coming there with toothache, after at least an hour waiting she was seen by a normal doctor, no dentist. He gave her some simple pain killers and told her to take them. If it still hurts she should come back in a week or two. He didn't even look in her mouth.

When I heard that I talked with them long enough to convince them to see a dentist (one floor up). Finally he saw her, decided the tooth was in bad shape and he pulled it out.

 

Another visit another day to a dental clinic with toothache. The dentist checked the hurting tooth and some other teeth. Then he put a filling in one of the other teeth and told her to come back another day to fix many other problems. The hurting tooth was not fixed.

 

It seems many Thai dentists, and the normal Thai insurance, offer only cheap fillings or extracting teeth. Anything more complicated like root canal treatment or crowns seem not to exist. The dentists don't even mention them.

 

Recently I had a couple of my teeth fixed in a Thai clinic. The doctors from that clinic also work in private hospitals. The clinic has a lot better prices than private hospitals. But it still not cheap.

Normal fillings are maybe 1000B, no problem. But I had root canal treatment and recently a crown and a bridge. It cost a lot of money. I think within the last year I paid maybe 100,000 THB.

Speaking with others this seems to be not unusual.

 

So coming back to this thread and the wife's friend: Think twice what you want to offer. If a dentist can fix a couple of teeth with fillings then that might be fine. And if the teeth are very bad probably the dentist can extract them and it won't hurt much. But anything in between is likely expensive in the region 10k and more, maybe a lot more.

Much useful knowledge here, thanks very much! I have noticed the big divide between general and specialist dentists. The Thai lady you mention was treated disgracefully. On the first occasion it sounds like because it was an 'insurance job' i.e. no opportunity to rip her off they couldn't care less. The second instance seems like sheer incompetence. Good advice about offering to pay, I was expecting maybe a crown and root canal would be necessary but if the dentist recommended a number of them the cost would definitely not be cheap. 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Much useful knowledge here, thanks very much! I have noticed the big divide between general and specialist dentists. The Thai lady you mention was treated disgracefully. On the first occasion it sounds like because it was an 'insurance job' i.e. no opportunity to rip her off they couldn't care less. The second instance seems like sheer incompetence. Good advice about offering to pay, I was expecting maybe a crown and root canal would be necessary but if the dentist recommended a number of them the cost would definitely not be cheap. 

You write: "The second instance seems like sheer incompetence", and that could be true. But maybe it's just the fact that most normal Thai people (not HiSo or rich) just won't be able to afford 20k treatments. Maybe this doctor told patients before: Yes, we can fix that, it cost 20,000B. And then he probably heard 99 out of 100 times: Forget about that, I can't afford that. And then maybe he gave up to mention that option.

 

In general I have the impression (from limited experience) that Thai doctors tell Thai patients what to do. Take that and shut up. And it seems many patients accept that, after all, this guy is the doctor.

When a farang tries to talk with a doctor and ask the doctor to explain and worst case tells the doctor something like "I read on the internet this and that might be an alternative" then it seem Thai doctors don't like that much.

 

[KhunLA]

You may want to point this out to him if untreated:

 

"If the abscess ruptures, the pain may decrease significantly — but you still need dental treatment. If the abscess doesn't drain, the infection may spread to your jaw and to other areas of your head and neck. You might even develop sepsis — a life-threatening infection that spreads throughout your body."  http://tiny.cc/k9yquz

 

Besides, if saved in time, or not, at last resort can get implants.  Or let them fall out, as they will start to soon.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by KhunLA

[Lacessit]

You could try pointing out to him a constant diet of painkillers is not doing his kidneys and liver any good at all, especially when combined with alcohol.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

Thanks for the advice. My Thai Mrs won't go to the dental dept at our Community Hospital saying that they're 'butchers'. I've never been but from what I've seen of the medical side it's excellent. You're correct, fear of the unknown is the issue with the guy. Sounds like you got good treatment and very economical too. I recently had two metal/fused porcelain crowns fitted at a cost of 8,000 baht each. The teeth were more fillings than tooth and the fillings had broken. But the roots were sound so crowns were possible without need of root canal treatment. 

A downside with a hospital dental, as opposed to a clinic, there will be several dentists and it only takes one to get the dept a bad name. 

A couple of weeks ago i went along with a broken tooth, the dentist said it would be extraction or root canal and a cap. I opted for extraction. I couldn't do it the same day as I take apixaban so went back the following day. Saw a different dentist and said I wanted it out, she asked why. Said at my age should try and hold on as long as possible and that she would just do a filling, even if it only lasted a couple of years would be worth it. Who was I to argue, cost 650 baht and my wife made a note of her name for next time.

 

[The Fugitive]

53 minutes ago, sandyf said:

A downside with a hospital dental, as opposed to a clinic, there will be several dentists and it only takes one to get the dept a bad name. 

A couple of weeks ago i went along with a broken tooth, the dentist said it would be extraction or root canal and a cap. I opted for extraction. I couldn't do it the same day as I take apixaban so went back the following day. Saw a different dentist and said I wanted it out, she asked why. Said at my age should try and hold on as long as possible and that she would just do a filling, even if it only lasted a couple of years would be worth it. Who was I to argue, cost 650 baht and my wife made a note of her name for next time.

 

You struck lucky there! Sounds like the second dentist was a general dentist also but maybe more experienced and/or confident than the first. I had similar, a general dentist told me either extraction or root canal plus crown. I asked for the root canal & crown. She didn't do that and referred me to a specialist dentist in the next town. He took a look and decided it could be filled and the price was similar to yours.  

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

You struck lucky there! Sounds like the second dentist was a general dentist also but maybe more experienced and/or confident than the first. I had similar, a general dentist told me either extraction or root canal plus crown. I asked for the root canal & crown. She didn't do that and referred me to a specialist dentist in the next town. He took a look and decided it could be filled and the price was similar to yours.  

Good outcome. There may be a reluctance by some to offer what they consider inferior treatment. They really ought to cover all options and let the patient decide, if I was somewhat younger I would probably have a different outlook.

Like my wife said when I built the house - Why build a house to last 100 years when you will only last about 25.

 

PS. changed her mind when it was finished.

Edited April 24, 2022 by sandyf